2015: The Year of Reading Women discussion

Discussion and group reads for Nora Ephron.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Ephron

I could join, but not lead (I've never read anything by Ephron, just watched some movies) for Heartburn and I Feel Bad about My Neck: And Other Thoughts on Being a Woman. Is anyone interested?

I’m interested in “I Feel Bad about My Neck.” It’s a short book and should be fun. I can start anytime, but I think we should wait for some additional interest. As for leading the read, I’ll start a new discussion at that time. If no one else joins, we can just go for it.

Here is a link to radio interview with Nora Ephron, October 25, 2006 (two months after the publication of I Feel Bad about My Neck. The length is 36:42. It may be streamed or downloaded. Ignore the first 20 seconds of goofy introduction.

http://www.edrants.com/segundo/bss-72...

It's not a problem, I hope, if I read in translation? Both books are available in my public library, but unfortunately in translation only (by the way, isn't it funny that more books by Ephron ended up translated into Polish than Didion's?) Let's wait a few days for any further readers - I'll be quite happy to wait, to be honest, as I'm really snowed under at the moment, until the end of Feb. I'll listen to the interview soon, thanks!

When would you like to start? I don't know at this point whether March or April would be better for me, so tell me what your preferences are:)

Bloodorange wrote: "When would you like to start? I don't know at this point whether March or April would be better for me, so tell me what your preferences are:)"

April is my preference, although I'll be traveling the last week of April.

I'll be away for a few days too at the beginning of the month, but April should work, if you'll excuse me for not posting every day (busy time at work).

Could we start on April 8? I think I will be away over Easter and, if possible, in the week before Easter. There's only two of us so far, we should manage before the last week of April.

Alternatively, we could start this Tuesday (March 10), if the book is available in my library (it should). We could then have three weeks before I leave on March 31.

When you OK any of these dates, I can post an announcement.

Hi Bloodorange.
Happy International Women’s Day.
Your second suggestion (start March 10) sounds better. I’ll be in Cuba the last week of April, and also away April 8 – 11.
I do hope your library has “I Feel Bad about My Neck.” Once the start date is posted, others may join. Since it is a collection of essays, late starting should not be a problem for others.

Thank you, David!

I have posted the announcement already and will add the book to the group bookshelf in a moment. See you on Tuesday! :)

Bloodorange, I see that you have added the book to the shelf. We should also start a new discussion for this book. Should I add it?

I thought the general rule was not to start a separate thread unless there are three or more readers? Or do people tend to ignore that?:)

Oh, I didn't know about a three or more readers rule. If others join in and want to read different books, we could start one then.

Just checking: How many essays are there in your edition? I'm reading a translation, and would like to make sure the number and order of essays agree in your book and mine.
It's fifteen essays in mine, starting with "I feel bad about my neck".

Mine also has 15 essays, in this order:
I Feel Bad About My Neck
I Hate My Purse
Serial Monogamy: A Memoir
On Maintenance
Blind as a Bat
Parenting in Three Stages
Moving On
Me and JFK: Now It Can Be Told
Me and Bill: The End of Love
Where I Live
The Story of My Life in 3,500 Words or Less
The Lost Strudel or Le Strudel Perdu
On Rapture
What I Wish I’d Known
Considering the Alternative

The translation retained the same order, then - thank you for taking the time to post the titles!

I’ve read and enjoyed the first two essays. They are quite short. I’ll show “I Hate My Purse” to my wife. It will give us both a laugh. I must say, Nora Ephron is quite a change from Carson McCullers.

Oh yes, she is! She may write about 'first world problems', perhaps, but sometimes this is what one deserves.

I will definitely up my skincare after reading "I Feel Bad About My Neck"; the image of women wearing scarves/ turtlenecks/ mandarin collars made me think of Diane Keaton.

I don't hate my purse, but Ephron reminded me that most purses pose a health hazard (while some may also pose a financial hazard). I loved the Kelly bag story, although I wonder how much of the incredulity was 'mustered' for the sake of writing an essay.

In "Serial Monogamy", it was interesting to see how she makes a connection between the pill and the increasing popularity of accessible French recipes. I believe recipes and the popularity of eating in vs. out reflect more significant trends. (A side note: I have recently read Still Life by A.S. Byatt; chapter 14 documents the moment in the Fifties when England opened to new ways of cooking (mostly Italian) and new ingredients - a captivating read, for me.)

Also: I saw a photo of the interior of the Public Library of Cincinnati & Hamilton County in your photos - googled for more and found a photo of a lovely Fiction Alcove, which I added to my files with an appropriate note. Hope you don't mind?

I don’t have a purse, but I sometimes hate my wife’s purse. She does fill it with everything. I call it her bowling bag, because it feels like it’s carrying a 12 pound bowling ball.

Years ago, I bought volumes 1 & 2 of Mastering the Art of French Cooking by Julia Child. If Nora Ephron really cooked half of the recipes, I’m impressed. I’ve read that Martha Stewart cooked them all. I shouldn’t be surprised; Ephron wrote, produced, and directed “Julie & Julia.” I still have some old cookbooks by Craig Claiborne and Pierre Franey.

Glad you liked the old Cincinnati Library photos. Take all you want.

I read "On Maintenance" today. I wonder what the point of this essay was - to say that maintenance is a futile fight against entropy, which women join in a lemming-like rush? I'm friends with women who are over seventy and over eighty, who sometimes tell me what to ignore and what pays off in the long run; I know I will age (the alternative is far more scary), but I don't think Ephron uses her valuable perspective to deliver any other message.

I think that the final comparison between Ephron (her persona?) and a homeless woman is something that might work as a short scene in a movie, but is a tad much in a personal essay. Untrue and unfair.

In the 1980s, I watched “60 minutes”, an investigative news program. At the end would be a few minutes of commentary by Andy Rooney. Usually, he would complain in a whiney voice about some trivial matter. He was very popular, but I never liked what he said, of how he said it.

“On Maintenance” reminded me of Andy Rooney, except I liked how Ephron wrote it. Every time I see my wife’s cosmetics, I’m grateful to be a guy. I think the cosmetics industry is a huge fraud.

I expect some exaggeration from Ephron, but this was a bit much. I did like her comment about the topiary trim.

I have no remarks on "Blind as a Bat".

I liked "Parenting in Three Stages' - I'm trying to be a sane parent, and I think quite a lot of this sanity was taken away by peer pressure. Ephron's remarks on feminism and stay-at-home-mums 'discovering' parenting and giving it a new status sound sensible to me, but I haven't been around, so I cannot say.

My husband disliked this essay, since it does refer to unnamed studies, which he doesn't like, and he did not find it amusing. In his opinion, Clarkson's essay on playing table tennis with his son is a much better reflection, from a father's point of view, on parenthood/ child's adolescence and leaving the nest.

Like you I have no comment on "Blind as a Bat", and I did like "Parenting in Three Stages.”

I think her advice to empty nesters is spot on:
“Do not under any circumstances leave your child’s room as is. Your child’s room is not a shrine.” Our daughter left for college 7 years ago. We are finally adapting it to a reading and study space, now that my wife just retired.

“Moving On” is the longest essay in this collection, and the one I could most relate to. No, I never lived in one of the grand 100 year old apartment buildings on the upper west side of NYC. Here in Brooklyn, the plight of renters is similar, but at a reduced scale. Back in my college days, I rented a large house in Houston. A month’s rent then is about equal to 2 days rent in NYC now.

Both “Me and JFK: Now It Can Be Told” and “Me and Bill: The End of Love” are short and entertaining. Her comments about Bill are both critical and insightful. Ephron was one of the few Washington insiders who knew the true identity of Watergate tipster “Deep Throat.”

David wrote: "I don’t have a purse, but I sometimes hate my wife’s purse. She does fill it with everything. I call it her bowling bag, because it feels like it’s carrying a 12 pound bowling ball.

Years ago, I ..."

Re: Purses. My then boyfriend, now spouse came to appreciate my purse when he went through a time of serious back trouble. Putting his wallet in his back pocket exacerbated the problem, so he would I invariably ask me to carry his wallet in my purse. Our joke became, " Mo-aaahm, would you carry this for me?" :-)

Nice one, Portia:) my husband can never understand why I even imagine I need my purse.

I read " Moving on" today, but am too sleepy to sanely comment. Will try tomorrow.

My thought on "Moving On": I was struck by the fact that Ephron says she was ashamed to reveal her new rent to her friends when she knew she made a bad financial decision. This reminded me of Suze Orman and what she says of women being more likely to repress the fact they make disastrous financial/ investment choices, and refuse to discuss these.

I, too, had the tendency to romanticize/idealise areas in which I lived, but I learned to find silver lining whenever I move (although I cannot imagine what could be better than the place where I live now;)

The 'fall of the house of Apthorp' story was, unexpectedly, quite a relief to read - it's so easy to train oneself into believing that the world was a perfect place before we entered adulthood; it's sobering to read that people saw things they love change beyond recognition due to other people's whims and greed.

"Me and JFK" was a fun, short, biting read; it's hard for me to relate to "Me and Bill", since I probably know more about the sex scandals than his political decisions.

(I didn't know Ephron knew who "Deep Throat" was: do you know how this came to be?)

Ephron was married to Carl Bernstein from 1976 to 1980. Bernstein and Bob Woodward were reporters for the Washington Post and wrote the articles that escalated the Watergate scandal. Deep Throat was Mark Felt, Associate Director of the FBI, at the time. For more details, see Wikipedia.

I didn't know she was Bernstein's wife! I used to teach media classes, and thus am aware of the major details.

It looks like he wasn't a good husband.

Bloodorange wrote: "I used to teach media classes ... "

That reminded me of the scene in “Annie Hall” where Woody brought out Marshall McLuhan in the cinema queue. (No similarity is implied.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWUc...

Bloodorange wrote: "My thought on "Moving On": I was struck by the fact that Ephron says she was ashamed to reveal her new rent to her friends when she knew she made a bad financial decision. This reminded me of Suze Orman and what she says of women being more likely to repress the fact they make disastrous financial/ investment choices, and refuse to discuss these."

I’m not convinced that “women being more likely to repress the fact they make disastrous financial/ investment choices.” Plenty of men have that trait (including me). I don’t know which cognitive biases are involved, but self-esteem is part of it.

I think I would find more use for Emily Post:)

So was Bernstein the evil second husband?

Emily Post vs Washington Post? Sounds like a promising Celebrity Death Match.

Yep, Bernstein was number 2.

I must say I feel more and more tempted to read about Ephron herself, though I realize by now hers was not an easy life. Not her sister's book, though. I heard it's heartbreaking.

(Also, I have a vision of her being married to Dustin Hoffman.)

And re: The Post family - I had to google 'is whistling indoors' rude yesterday, since my 11-graders did not want to take my word for it... (they are good kids, but their parents were busy making money).

I have no comments on "Where I Live" (I might try the waste paper basket hack at some point, though).

On "The Story of My Life in 3,500 Words or Less" - well. My first thought was that there is a novel in it. Then realized she mentioned at least two. The story of ther father and the sleeping pills... (silence). Her journalism teacher seemed to be quite good, though.

I read "The Lost Strudel or Le Strudel Perdu" aloud to my husband - he has the same problem; the restaurants he eats once in and wants to return to close immediately, the products/ conditements he buys once and wants to buy again never reappear in the store. (view spoiler)[The moment in "The Lost Strudel" when Adre refuses to bake the strudel... so close! so frustrating! (hide spoiler)] I think it was one of the essays in the collection I most enjoyed, so far (the most interesting/ entertaining one was "Moving On").

"On Rapture" is obviously easy to understand and love for any bookworm, although I do not necessarily agree with Ephron on The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, which is a permanent fixture on my "temporarily shelved" list.

Re "What I Wish I’d Known" - short and simple; I've heard enough life advice from older women for it to leave me completely unmoved.

"Considering the Alternative" made a strong impression on me; Ephron manages to convey the schizophrenia of living in an age (pun intended) when thoughts of death become more or less permanent part of one's life (which feels, to me, in my lousy geopolitical situation, as if one lived under a constant threat of war), and yet one is bombarded with a "life is good, sixty is the new fifty, seventy is the new sixty, eat well, be positive and you can control your destiny" messages.

As a postscript: I recently visited an exhibition of paintings by Olga Boznanska, a famous Polish painter, most frequently classified as an Impressionist: http://www.mnw.art.pl/en/temporary-ex... In her latest self-portraits her face and figure look as if they were evaporating, or turning to fine dust and falling from the canvas:



If I see the exhibition again, which I intend to, it is to see these self-portraits.

No comments about “Where I Live.”

I like the format of “The Story of My Life in 3,500 Words or Less.” The story of her father and the sleeping pills made me wonder. Why did her father give her the pills to flush away? He could have done it himself. Did he want to be found out?

“The Lost Strudel or Le Strudel Perdu” triggered a few memories. My wife loved a dessert she had at a restaurant. I think it involved hazelnuts. We went back a few months later, and it wasn’t on the menu. The pastry chef, who came out to discuss it, was the one who made it before. Unfortunately, the recipe took a long time, and could not be made on the spot.

Unlike the restaurants your husband wants to return to, the ones I like don’t close. They have the opposite problem. They become too successful. The two that come to mind are both a short walk from our apartment in Brooklyn. The first seats 18 in 2 seatings, has no menu, and serves everyone the same 20 or so small courses. At the time it had a Michelin star. Reservations for an entire week were made during a two hour window on Monday morning, SIX weeks in advance, to a woman with a cell phone (who might be out shopping). At 10 am sharp I was speed dialing for two hours straight, and only got busy signals. This went on for weeks. I imagined hundreds of executive assistants all dialing at the same time. A couple of times I got through, only to be put on a waiting list. Finally, I got a call back. There was a cancellation. We took it, we went, and we loved it. Now it has three Michelin stars, and all hope of a return is perdu.

The other restaurant seats 12 in one seating per night. Two women do everything in a townhouse. They are open only three nights per week. We loved it. Now they have a Michelin star. Oh well, maybe someday.

For “On Rapture” and “What I Wish I’d Known,” I can add nothing to what you already wrote.

I think “Considering the Alternative” is the best essay in the collection. I especially liked Henry’s preparations for death.

Your image of Olga Boznanska’s painting is so fitting.

Thank you for the discussion, David!

Do you think I should remove the book from the "currently reading" shelf? The planned end date was 2015/03/30.

And thank you, Bloodorange. Yes, you can move it from the "current" shelf." I'm usually behind schedule. It feels good to finish early.

For those considering reading Nora Ephron for the first time, here is a little appetizer. It’s a parody of “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.” It appeared in The New Yorker, July 5, 2010.

The Girl Who Fixed the Umlaut, by Nora Ephron
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2010/0...

This is lovely!