Reading the Chunksters discussion

I know it is a couple of days early, but let's kick this off now. This topic covers the first four chapters of Book One (i.e up to and including The R. Wilfer family).

These are the chapter summaries I made while reading (I will use spoiler tags just in case anyone cares):
(view spoiler)[
1. We meet Gaffer Hexam and his daughter Lizzie on the river – he steering, she rowing. They are carrying a body, Hexam takes a coin from its pocket. Hexam’s former “pardner” Riderhood appears in another boat, and they argue. Hexam goes to the pub.

2. At the Veneerings, where everything is bran-new, including the hosts’ growing list of acquaintances. Their friend Twemlow, a cousin of Lord Snigsworth, adds to their veneer of respectability and provides social glue. Other guests are Boots & Brewer, a “mature young” couple (see chapter 10), Lady Tippins, Lightwood, Wrayburn. Lightwood and Wrayburn discuss the bequest of old Mr Harmon, in which his fortune will only be inherited by his son if he marries a certain young woman he has not met, otherwise the fortune will go to his servants. A man comes in with a piece of paper for Lightwood announcing that young Mr Harmon has been drowned.

3. Hexam’s son Charley appears at the dinner, takes Lightwood and Wrayburn to see his father, where a stranger appears, introducing himself as Julius Handford. Charley and Lizzie talk. At the Coroner’s jury, a reward of £100 is set for information on the suspicious death.

4. We meet the clerk R. Wilfer (Reginald) who works for Veneering’s “drug-house”. At his house we meet his wife and daughters Bella and Lavinia (Lavvy). Bella is the girl involved in the Harmon’s will, a widow never married whose distaste for the dead young man is undisguised, we also hear about George Sampson, her preferred suitor. We also meet the Wilfers’ new tenant John Rokesmith, a mysterious gentleman who Bella instinctively labels a murderer. The narrator hints that Rokesmith is Handford’s “twin”.
(hide spoiler)]

I'm a big Dickens fan, and the contrast between chapters 1 and 2 is vintage Dickens. Chapter 1 is mysterious, glum, foggy -- I feel the damp river air touching my skin -- and peppered with threats of danger and violence, while chapter 2 is a jovial romp through names and descriptions.

The Verneer(ings) are all polish and newness -- they even have a baby -- with, as the name implies, a hint of something not as lustrous underneath all that shine, while Podsnap is such a memorable character that in real life his name becomes a word used to describe an individual who possesses his characteristics.

Then there is Tremlow, who was fashionable a generation ago and is only stunned by the unvanquishable difficulty of his existence." And, finally, as if Lord Snigsworth isn't mouthful enough, they've named a park after him.

I can see Dickens at his desk having a grand old time writing this.

Started this one today. I am on chapter two . Yes, both chapters are very different from each other.

This is the first Dickens I have read for at least thirty years, and I confess I had expected to find the book sweet and nice, but a book that would maybe be a bit dated. That arrogance was born out of having read a bit more widely since school days.
How wrong I was. From the very start I was taken by how cleverly Dickens writes, and how complex Our Mutual Friend turns out to be.
I absolutely love it so far in the first four chapters.
I do find that reading it out loud makes the meaning of individual passages easier to follow.

I found it interesting that three of the first four chapters introduce new situations and characters rather than continuing the story in a more linear way, and all of them embody different elements of what we think of as Dickensian. It is not immediately clear which of the characters will play more important roles in the later parts of the story. The Veneerings' dinner is a classic comic set piece, but also serves to introduce a number of characters, some of whom are important later and some of whom just provide colour and help to keep the plots moving.

If anybody is itching to move further than the first few chapters, let me know - I can easily open some of the later threads early.

In Chapter 2 Gaffer Hexam is confronted by a fellow searcher of the Thames who wants a share of his new find. He says of Gaffer that

“He’s had touches enough” . (page 5)

Can anybody enlighten me on then origins of the use of “touch”. I’ve heard colleagues at work in London use the word, and it certainly implies good fortune, but there’s nothing I can find online.

Dickens managed a little poignancy amidst all the descriptions and introductions. The conversation between Lizzy and her brother Charley stands on its own, but I'm thinking it will come back to haunt the story. Her father seems to have a special place in his heart for his daughter, but she's defying him by seeing to Charley's education. Let's see what happens with that.

I decided to dive in and hopefully I can keep up since my print reading time has been minimal lately. I've just started chapter 2, and yes, what a contrast to chapter 1!

I found my bookmark when I began reading this awhile back. I had made it to only chapter 4. :)

Jonathan wrote: "“He’s had touches enough” . (page 5)

Can anybody enlighten me on then origins of the use of “touch”."

I'll keep a look out when I reach that part.

Yay Linda I’m happy you’re joining. I feel like it’s been ages since we read together. I’m going to be starting tonight.

Amanda wrote: "Yay Linda I’m happy you’re joining. I feel like it’s been ages since we read together. I’m going to be starting tonight."

I know, it's been ages! I think the last two books were both chunksters you wanted to read. :)

It's also been a long time since I've read any Dickens. I'd fallen off the Dickens train for some reason.

Jonathan wrote: "In Chapter 2 Gaffer Hexam is confronted by a fellow searcher of the Thames who wants a share of his new find. He says of Gaffer that

“He’s had touches enough” . (page 5)

Can anybody enlighten m..."

I read this as touches like you would say "touch wood" to bring about good luck. So because he has such good luck he's had enough touches? No idea if that's right that's just how I read it.

Chapters One & Two

It has been awhile since I read Dickens and I forgot just how disorienting the beginning of his books can feel. As mentioned above the differences in ch 1&2 are stark. I think I prefer the grim, dark, slightly sinister tone to chapter 1 than I do the romp of the dinner party and all the characters introduced in ch 2. I do love a good dinner party as a way to introduce characters. I like the fun that Dickens is poking at "high society" and how important they all think they are. The part about Twemlow not being able to tell Boots and Brewer apart because they had nothing to distinguish them was amusing. Obviously a long way to go but I thought the opening two chapters were promising. Do we think that the thing Lizzie and Gaffer are towing in ch 1 is the body of John Harmon? I'm guessing yes.

Linda wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "“He’s had touches enough” . (page 5)

Can anybody enlighten me on then origins of the use of “touch”."

I'll keep a look out when I reach that part."

Amanda wrote: "I read this as touches like you would say "touch wood" to bring about good luck. So because he has such good luck he's had enough touches?..."

Thank you Linda and Amanda.
The touch wood is as good an explanation as any other I've heard!

When I've heard people say "you've had a touch" I was wanting to believe that it has some classical connotations- say that a Greek god had touched mortal man? Nothing so dramatic I fear.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "I'm a big Dickens fan, and the contrast between chapters 1 and 2 is vintage Dickens. Chapter 1 is mysterious, glum, foggy -- I feel the damp river air touching my skin -- and peppered with threats ..... I can see Dickens at his desk having a grand old time writing this."


I was struggling a bit keeping focus as I am doing this read as an audio book but the vision you have now put in mind of Dickens having fun with the writing has helped me along.

Chapters 1, 2 & 3 read and agree, what contrast between the three.
Chapter 1, such a great opening scene. And Chapter 2, the frivolous dinner party and as mentioned by Amanda, and Hugh has warned, a great way to introduce new characters, especially by describing them via their reflection in "the great looking-glass above the sideboard"
I had to go back and re-listen to Chapter 2 as there was so much going on I got a bit disorientated and wondered what I might be missing, especially during Mortimer's story of the Harmons, and the man from Somewhere and that "popular character whom the novelists and versifiers call Another" and then those 4 Buffers and the Analytical Chemist, but I think that I have it all straight in my mind now.
Chapter 3 seems to connect some of the Chapter 1's and Chapter 2's and I wonder if we will go on more straight forward from here?

Lisa wrote: "Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "I'm a big Dickens fan, and the contrast between chapters 1 and 2 is vintage Dickens. Chapter 1 is mysterious, glum, foggy -- I feel the damp river air touching my skin -- ..."

Probably not much of a spoiler to say that there are plenty more apparent discontinuities to come, and that more of the dinner party guests than you have mentioned gain significance later, including the unnamed "mature young" couple.

Hugh wrote: "more of the dinner party guests than you have mentioned gain significance later, including the unnamed "mature young" couple..."

ah yes, the mature young lady with the raven hair and the mature young gentleman; with too much of .... everything, I shall keep watch

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "The Verneer(ings) are all polish and newness -- they even have a baby -- with, as the name implies, a hint of something not as lustrous underneath all that shine, while Podsnap is such a memorable character...

One of the things I like best about Dickens is his fabulous choice of names for his characters.
It brought to mind some of the spectacular names of teachers at my daughters primary school, including Mr. Skillicorn; Mrs Pinchbeck; Mrs Flint; Mr Duddy.

My own history teacher was Mr Ramsbotham, pronounced Ramsbottom, though he was not forgiving if any pupil accompanied saying his name with a smirk or snigger!!

Chapters 3&4
3

So I was pretty sure the body was what they were towing. Nothing like making a living pulling in dead bodies! I really liked the exchange with Lizzie and her brother. I feel really bad for her because she obviously loves her father but she also seems like a really bright kid that wants to learn. Sad for her that the only was she can even sort of do that is through her brother. When they were talking about a reward of 100 pounds being offered I did a google search on inflation values and it looks like 100 pounds is approx 12,500 pounds today.

4
Yet another family gets introduced! Bella is a bit of a whinger about her situation. I mean sucks that the guy she was supposed to marry (and get rich from) is dead but her poor me's were tiresome. The last part of this chapter is interesting finding out that the lodger (John Rokensmith) is actual the guy that was with Mortimer (Julius Hardford) but who is he? Hopefully we find out soon.

Lizzie strikes me as a resourceful young woman, very young, who sacrifices herself for family (and others). She reminds me of Little Dorrit. It is in Lizzie's nature to sacrifice herself to help father and brother the way Little Dorrit sacrifices herself to help father, brother, and sister. Lizzie and Little Dorrit are innocents -- lambs, really -- who never lose faith or tire of giving of themselves, despite living in environments where its hard to believe anyone can be innocent or giving for long. I'm going to be watching Lizzie; she's a fascinating character.

While I have read a few by Dickens (Great Expectations, A Christmas Carol, A Tale of Two Cities, Hard Times, The Signal-Man and David Copperfield) only David Copperfield could be considered a true Chunkster. From watching the Bleak House miniseries I knew that Dickens could explore various plotlines in his Chunksters. Yet, I still was a bit disoriented by the introduction of so many different characters and different scenes through the first few chapters. I felt like I wouldn't remember all the characters or know who or what would remain important.
But this is the advantage of reading with a group as, after reading the comments by XS, Hugh, Jonathan and Amanda, I felt that I understood what I should understand and should stop worrying, relax and just let Dickens unravel his lengthy story. The comments also helped me more clearly understand the revealed plot elements, although i may re-read chapter 2.

Brian wrote: "The comments also helped me more clearly understand the revealed plot elements, although i may re-read chapter 2. ..."

I have somethimes felt that an impatience comes over me when Im reading a long book, and so this gradual read here really suits me. The more so given the surprising (in a good way) complexity of the early set up. I too plan to re-read chapter 2 ahead of my read on parts 5-8 over the weekend.

I loved the first chapter of this book as it was so gothic and murky.

Then to be honest I found the second chapter overall and bit confusing and drawn out, I did though love the first paragraph about the "bran-new Veneerings". I think, Hugh says, it will be a good one to go back to when I'm deeper into the story and have a better sense of these characters.

Chapters 3 & 4 seem to kick off the plot. I love the character of Lizzie and am scared she's going to come to some harm! Bella Wilfer's dramatics reminded me of Little Women when they kept complaining about how poor they were when they were pretty comfortably middle class. I feel there is going to be a lot of investigation of class in this book.

Jonathan wrote: "Thank you Linda and Amanda.
The touch wood is as good an explanation as any other I've heard!"

Sorry, I didn't see the phrase in chapter two while reading, and just now went back to look and realized it was in chapter one. In any case, I didn't know what they were talking about either, but I like Amanda's interpretation.

Thank you, Hugh, for including brief chapter summaries in post #1. Like I mentioned before, I started reading this during week 1 but then had put it down since then because of lack of time. The summaries helped recap what I had forgotten already. But also, like others mentioned, the beginning chapters were a bit disorienting anyway with all the different characters being introduced, and their being different settings and moods for each chapter. I'm going to not fret and just go with the flow, hoping that things become more clear and the main characters become cemented in my mind. So I will now continue on with chapter 5 and try to comment along the way.

Linda wrote: "Thank you, Hugh, for including brief chapter summaries in post #1. Like I mentioned before, I started reading this during week 1 but then had put it down since then because of lack of time. The sum..."

Things do become clearer, although I'm left wondering while some characters stories are advanced, what the others might be up to.