Book Nook Cafe discussion

Elizabeth Taylor was a wonderful person who finally got Ronald Reagan to finally mention AIDS a scourge that sickened and killed so many. Kudos to her.

I'd forgotten that, Rachel. She helped make strides in just understanding AIDS & HIV.

Amelia, what a delightful thought. Thanks to you, Alias, for telling us the line.

Deb, a friend of mine posted the Amelia Earhart pic and told how today she, her dog and a friend got lost on a trail and came out quite a distance from their car. A nice father and son graciously offered to drive them to their starting point and got them on their way. It's always good to hear about people helping others and not always the negative.

Great quote from Amelia Earhart. 🙂

Alias, you make a good point. We learn about the incidents where a person is "helped", only to be kidnapped or worse, but never about "arrived safely at my destination". We need more sharing about those moments.

Hey Alias,

That is a great quote. Being kind is always appropriate.

Thank you, Rachel. I'm glad my friend shared her experience and I could share it with you all.

Holocaust survivor and teacher, Helen Fagin, on the power of hope:

"There are times when dreams sustain us more than facts."

Source: A Velocity of Being: Letters to A Young Reader

From James Clear Newsletter

Sweet and sad thought.

Without dreams the world would be a much sadder place. Thanks for reminding all of us about that.

“For 99 percent of the tenure of humans on earth, nobody could read or write. The great invention had not yet been made. Except for firsthand experience, almost everything we knew was passed on by word of mouth. As in the children’s game “Telephone,” over tens and hundreds of generations, information would slowly be distorted and lost.

Books changed all that. Books, purchasable at low cost, permit us to interrogate the past with high accuracy; to tap the wisdom of our species; to understand the point of view of others, and not just those in power; to contemplate — with the best teachers — the insights, painfully extracted from Nature, of the greatest minds that ever were, drawn from the entire planet and from all of our history. They allow people long dead to talk inside our heads. Books can accompany us everywhere. Books are patient where we are slow to understand, allow us to go over the hard parts as many times as we wish, and are never critical of our lapses.”

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan



---Wikipedia
Carl Sagan was an American astronomer, planetary scientist, cosmologist, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, author, and science communicator.
Born: November 9, 1934, Brooklyn, New York, NY
Died: December 20, 1996
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan

I've heard this comment previously but it puts one in awe when thinking about reading and books. Good reminder.

Thanks for sharing this quote. It is so true and great to know how much books and reading have meant to the world.

Thanks for the reply, Rachel. It helps me when I get feedback.

Writer and Pulitzer Prize winner Richard Powers on how to change someone's mind:

"The best arguments in the world won't change a single person's mind. The only thing that can do that is a good story."

Source: The Overstory by Richard Powers

I don't necessarily agree with Powers, arguments work. However, i think stories stick with us longer, persuading us as we listen and re-listen.

Deb, I haven't read the book so I can say what the context is.

My guess is he is saying just "facts" don't necessarily help change peoples mind. But if you can put it in context with a story and make it more personal, people may better understand your argument and be open to changing their minds.

That said, most people don't usually change their minds very often. There are various reasons why this is thought to be true.

Will these articles change your mind? LOL

James Clear
https://jamesclear.com/why-facts-dont...

Psychology Today.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl...

New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...

I read something very recently that said if a person starts a discussion with the goal of changing the other person's mind, it will probably not be successful. On the other hand if a person asks questions to try to understand the mindset of the person with different views and looks for some areas of common ground it will probably have a more successful outcome.

Rachel wrote: "I read something very recently that said if a person starts a discussion with the goal of changing the other person's mind, it will probably not be successful. On the other hand if a person asks qu..."

That sounds reasonable to me. Also some people when engaged in a conversation, are only waiting for a break to insert their own points. They are not really listening.

I'll admit I have a bad habit of interrupting. :( I am aware of it and am trying to change.

Alias, thanks for the links and encouragement. From Powers's viewpoint, i can understand what he means. Don't people claim films and books change their minds on some issues? This would seem to bolster his quote.

Rachel, you make a very good point. Elsewhere we mentioned not recognizing people's faces & such. Once i learned to ask questions in conversation, i got better with recognition. I needed something to tie the face with the person in my mind.

I mention this here because in the process i found i was learning much about folks i was meeting. So many people just want an opportunity to share their opinion on subjects. And sometimes those answers lead those to whom they are speaking to work around to motives and actions. Circuitous but effective.

It's seldom been my goal when meeting and interacting with adults to persuade them. However, questioning with an idea toward explaining one's beliefs works extremely well with teenagers and many younger than that, too.

Alias, i agree about folks not really listening, too. When that happens, i want to run from the conversation.

madrano wrote: "Alias, thanks for the links and encouragement. From Powers's viewpoint, i can understand what he means. Don't people claim films and books change their minds on some issues? This would seem to bols..."

We all have our own viewpoints based on life experience (even if one sided or something else). Due to self reflection, I found I was guilty of trying to give people advice or change their minds in one way shape or form. I have decided to try to limit advice giving or mind changing. Someone once said to me that if anyone wants my advice they will ask for it. Very sound thinking, I believe.

Rachel, it really is that simple, isn't it? If someone wants advice, they'll ask for it. I've not been one to try to change the views of others (my husband may disagree, btw) because i'm often unsure of my own views. That it, i know how i feel about something but cannot persuasively explain to another. It's gut feeling, i guess.

It helps getting older. At my age now (73 years old), I find it very easy not to give advice unless asked ... but when I was younger, I just couldn't help myself.

Rachel wrote:
We all have our own viewpoints based on life experience (even if one sided or something else). Due to self reflection, I found I was guilty of trying to give people advice or change their minds in one way shape or form. I have decided to try to limit advice giving or mind changing. Someone once said to me that if anyone wants my advice they will ask for it. Very sound thinking, I believe.
."

Good points, Rachel! I'll admit I am a work in progress on this. I think I always feel the need to help and therefore offer unsolicited advice. I need to work on not doing that.

In the book that I recently read, Personality Isn't Permanent: Break Free from Self-Limiting Beliefs and Rewrite Your Story there is a small section on being what the author calls being an "empathetic witness."

He writes, "The listener's core motivation is to understand and encourage, Time is allowed for each person to open up and process their perspectives. Solutions or advice are not presented, at least initially. Instead, open-ended and sincere questions are asked. " The author then gives some examples.

I think a book that explores this topic of how to be a good listener would be a worthwhile read. I just checked Amazon and there seems to be a few. I need to put a few on my TBR.

(cute cover)
How to Listen with Intention: The Foundation of True Connection, Communication, and Relationships

I Hear You: The Surprisingly Simple Skill Behind Extraordinary Relationships

The Power of Listening: How to Improve Relationships by Becoming an Active Listener

Larry, i agree that age helps one refrain on giving unsolicited opinions. There is also something to be said for the fact that more people ask me now for advice. Another side of old age, i suppose.

Improving one's listening skills is a key in life, imo. I learned this through my Crisis Line training in North Dakota. It was the best course i took and allowed me to practice with calls to the line. This was in the '70s, when things seemed easier, i must add.

One thing I learned from my wife and from reading a book about Being a Stephen Minster (which I never was ... but which was given to me by a friend who was) is that when someone is suffering, it doesn't usually help them to hear that you have been through the same or a similar experience. That seemed counterintuitive to me ... but it's not. What they want is just an engaged listener.

madrano wrote: "Larry, i agree that age helps one refrain on giving unsolicited opinions. There is also something to be said for the fact that more people ask me now for advice. Another side of old age, i suppose .... This was in the '70s, when things seemed easier, i must add....."

Even the crazy 1960s were simpler and easier than these times. I have to say that these times seem the hardest on the young ... maybe not on children so much as on teens and younger adults. I think that things are really complicated in that generally times are better and worse simultaneously, but the worse things are really worse ... like the cost of higher education.

Larry wrote: is that when someone is suffering, it doesn't usually help them to hear that you have been through the same or a similar experience. That seemed counterintuitive to me ... but it's not. What they want is just an engaged listener.
.."

Excellent point to remember.

Larry wrote: "someone is suffering, it doesn't usually help them to hear that you have been through the same or a similar experience. That seemed counterintuitive to me ... but it's not. What they want is just an engaged listener..."

I'll admit to wondering if that helps or not. Sometimes it almost seems the person is trying to one-up you, which i know isn't the case.

However, when my nephew killed himself, we were stunned at the number of people who shared their own family experience with that horror. In that case, it gave a sort of comfort that we other "ordinary" people have been touched by this tragedy. And the next step from there, alights on another topic you mentioned, Larry.

These times do seem to be tougher than the times we experienced as teens. The immediacy of texting, ease of bullying and the tragedies of the world growing. Not to mention the creeping of environmental concerns. I can't begin to tell you how many times my husband & i have told one another how grateful we are not to be raising teenagers today.

madrano wrote:However, when my nephew killed himself, we were stunned at the number of people who shared their own family experience with that horror. In that case, it gave a sort of comfort that we other "ordinary" people have been touched by this tragedy. And the next step from there, alights on another topic you mentioned, Larry...."

Yes. I think most people share to say you are not alone. I understand your pain.

madrano wrote: "Larry wrote: "someone is suffering, it doesn't usually help them to hear that you have been through the same or a similar experience. That seemed counterintuitive to me ... but it's not. What they ...However, when my nephew killed himself, we were stunned at the number of people who shared their own family experience with that horror. In that case, it gave a sort of comfort that we other "ordinary" people have been touched by this tragedy. And the next step from there, alights on another topic you mentioned, Larry."

Deb, I do think that how we respond best has to be on a case-by-case basis. Some people do this well ... others don't. And I think that Alias gets it right also, by saying that sometimes sharing is a statement that "You are not alone."

Larry

Yes. Maybe just saying that can suffice sometimes, too.

Absolutely the best reminder.

Absolutely, a wonderful quote. To have the self control to decide how to respond instead of just reacting is true maturity. I am still working on it.

I need to work on it, too. They say meditation helps one get into that "gap".

How Reading Changed My Life by Anna Quindlen

"To hear a cultivated person of today joking almost boastfully that they are completely ignorant about science is as depressing as hearing a scientist bragging that they have never read a poem."
- Carlo Rovelli, from There are Places in the World Where Rules are Less Important than Kindness

Bill wrote: ""To hear a cultivated person of today joking almost boastfully that they are completely ignorant about science is as depressing as hearing a scientist bragging that they have never read a poem."
- ..."

Love it ! Thanks for sharing that, Bill.

Here is the link to the book. Looks interesting.
There Are Places in the World Where Rules Are Less Important Than Kindness

Bill wrote: ""To hear a cultivated person of today joking almost boastfully that they are completely ignorant about science is as depressing as hearing a scientist bragging that they have never read a poem."
- ..."

Excellent quote/point, Bill. Thank you.

Alias, i suspect many, if not most of us here agree with Quindlen. Thanks.

The ancient Greek poet Hesiod on small improvements:

"If you add only a little to a little and do this often, soon that little will become great."

Source: Theogony and Works and Days / Elegies ~Hesiod

Lillian Moore shares a quick story that reveals what really motivates people:

"A few months after my husband and I moved to a small Massachusetts town I grumbled to a resident about the poor service at the library, hoping she would repeat my complaints to the librarian. The next time I went to the library, the librarian had set aside two bestsellers for me and a new biography for my husband. What's more, she appeared to be genuinely glad to see me.

Later I reported the miraculous change to my friend. "I suppose you told her how poor we thought the service was?" I asked.

"No," she confessed. "In fact—I hope you don't mind—I told her your husband was amazed at the way she had built up this small town library, and that you thought she showed unusually good taste in the new books she ordered."

Source: Reader's Digest

​

Alias Reader wrote: "Lillian Moore shares a quick story that reveals what really motivates people:

"A few months after my husband and I moved to a small Massachusetts town I grumbled to a resident about the poor servi..."

Great story!

That is a great story. Who doesn't like praise? Complimenting someone is a better way to start a request than a complaint. I think it is a good life lesson.

Ditto on the praise for the Lillian Moore story. It truly is a great way to build confidence in others while also introducing yourself to a problem area. Kudos for the new neighbor who thought of this approach.

The Lilian Moore story is wonderful.

"Ever tried. Ever failed.
No matter.
Try Again.
Fail again. Fail better."
~ Samuel Beckett




Waiting for Godot---Samuel Beckett

Wikipedia
Samuel Barclay Beckett was an Irish novelist, playwright, short story writer, theatre director, poet, and literary translator. A resident of Paris for most of his adult life, he wrote in both French and English. During the Second World War, Beckett was a member of the French Resistance group Gloria SMH.

Beckett was awarded the 1969 Nobel Prize in Literature

Born: April 13, 1906, Foxrock, Ireland
Died: December 22, 1989, Paris, France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_...