Nature Literature discussion

Hello everyone,

Please add your comments about Our Biggest Experiment: An Epic History of the Climate Crisis to this thread.

Thanks,
Becky

Hey Everyone-- checking in to see who will be joining this discussion. I know Lin and I will be; we both have the book. I believe it is available on audible, but I have it in hard copy-- so that means it will go more slowly for me. John is hoping to join too, but he is moving right now, so you know how busy moving is, but maybe we will see him.

I'm really interested to see how this author handles the topic.

Is the discussion in real time or through messages?

Eunice Foote is a hero of mine.

P.L. -- our discussions are through messages here. We haven't done any zooming - though I love that idea...

Are other good reads groups actually discussing books virtually?

The ease of discussing through messages is we don't have to worry about time zones. :)

Anyway, the plan for this book is to have the discussion right here chapter by chapter as people like.

Sher, this book is enroute to me. I should be able to join the discussion in early March.

Sounds good. Any interest in a reading schedule? A general schedule to follow seems to help keeping us sort of together and seems to foster richer discussion. Lin is out until end of month, so she won't check in until we begin, but we often enjoy having a general schedule since we are often reading several books at once. But, this isn't a Side Read-- so I'm not sure if I should post a suggested schedule or not. Julie-- your thoughts?

Ok by me if you post a schedule with the premise that anyone can join the discussion when their book access and schedule allows

Julie,
yes, I agree - just a helpful suggestion if folks would like to follow. I am at the barn now; I will look tonight at the book and see what would seem to work.

Julie- do you ever listen to your books? Because I saw this one is on Audible; I was curious why you ordered it in hardcopy-- perhaps want to share it or you think this one might stay on your shelf? I hope we like this book... and by like I mean in the fullest sense... learn, like the prose, and have lots for reflection/discussion.

I ordered the book through my library system. I read so much I need to use libraries. I am beginning to try to listen to audiobooks. I started listening to podcasts during the pandemic and now I'm expanding to audiobooks. I have to work on screen too much for work, so my first choice is reading print books. But audio is nice if I'm cooking or cleaning, and it's an easy time to listen. Our side read has me wanting to read more poetry, but wouldn't it be nice if more poetry books were published as audiobooks?

Looks like our book has 12 chapters, so if we read 3 chapters a week beginning March 1st, we should get through the book in a month.

Suggested Schedule -- Totally Optional

March 1 chapters 1-3

March 8 chapters 4- 6

March 15 chapters 7 -9

March 22 through end of month. chapters 10 - 12 and End Point?

Looks good Sher. I picked up the book today

I’ll join in. I’m using Libby and found this title available through the local library. Just read the Introduction and was surprised to learn of “the little ice age” between 1350 and 1850 that contributed to the slow growth and thus the density and strength of wood that Stradivarius used to make violins. In spite of my big bad business bias, I agree that the climate crisis is a social project and more about groups of people than individuals. We have to face it together.

Hi Iris:

I liked the surprising Stradivarius detail too. I did know about the mini ice age... I like how this author brings in many mini stories ... glad you can join us.

Iris wrote: "I’ll join in. I’m using Libby and found this title available through the local library. Just read the Introduction and was surprised to learn of “the little ice age” between 1350 and 1850 that cont..."

Iris, your mention of the little ice age and the Stradivarius reminds me of Tree Story: The History of the World Written in Rings which provides amazing details about world history and climate change proved from tree ring science-Dendrochronology. A five-star book for me. Highly recommended.

Hi all,

I have the book and will start this week. I like the schedule, Sher!

I think the author does a good job of describing the Crystal Palace. I can almost feel the polluted coal smog filling my lungs as I read….

I have finished Chapter one and have mixed feelings. While I found a lot of the information interesting, an entire chapter about the history of the development of steam was not what I was expecting from this book.

I went back and read the book’s description and I do see that the development of technology that led to our current climate crisis is part of what’s included, but I guess I had focused more on it being about the scientists who discovered (realized) there was a problem, and so this first chapter was disappointing. I found the introduction to be much more interesting.

I will continue on and see how the following chapters shape up.

Hi Lin:

I thought we might be in more for a cultural psychological analysis regarding humans and how we create climate degradation (sort of like a Harari book), and that this has been going on for centuries. In a way I am seeing that- I am just finishing up C 3. I don't think, but we shall see, the book is about scientists who realized there was a problem. But maybe a chapter will cover this.

So far what has struck me is how closely invention is connected to greed -- wanting to become famous and rich for something one man or woman has created. But--- also many of these men and women created and designed things at first because they were driven by curiosity, imagination, and they wanted to make something in human life better. And then we have the unintended consequences.

I thought it was interesting to see how inventions/discoveries stayed within families and clicks--groups. Like we have musicians in a genre who all know each other now, or writers, or back in the Gilded Age the Carnegies and Rockefellers knew each other and competed. I know it began with one man against another, but at they married, had children and often you will see brothers working with brothers.

Another theme in these first few chapters is opportunities-- UK and America had governments and economic systems that favored opportunity. And these systems bred men (mostly men) who looked at environment as a "thing" to be conquered and dominated and enhanced with technology. This was all thought of as progress. Truly, I can imagine how exciting a time it was. These people thought -- things are going to get better in so many ways, and we are going to prosper.

People in the 19th C were drunk with wonder regarding what technology and machines could do. They had no idea of the long term consequences. People like Thoreau and Henry Adams were uneasy and fascinated at the same time with technologies unfolding. Can we fault them? Should they have seen the problems ahead?

I've had a problem these past two years in particular with feeling a strong sense of blame about what humans have allowed to happen.
I've not known what to do with these feelings.

Sher, thanks for your insights. I just finished reading Chapter 2 and I enjoyed it immensely. The history of the scientists and the experiments they performed to learn more about the gases of our atmosphere and heat transfer, etc.- just fascinating. Even though they didn't understand the significance of their findings, we are so fortunate today that they learned so much in the past. Scientific acceptance seems to happen slowly at times, so imagine if scientific knowledge had lagged even further behind our technological advancement.

I'm a little behind the reading schedule. I look to forward to reading about Thoreau and Adams, and contemplating your questions, Sher.

Hi Lin:
I'm just starting C 5, but C 4 seems to cover what may really interest you-- scientists from earlier centuries who made discoveries and tied them to a changing climate and perhaps problems down the road.

The background on the early inventions are interesting--steam, gas...

I thought what would happen if inventors today were as mad to find solutions for climate change as they were in the 19th C for technological progress? If inventions for alternative fuels were monetized in this way- then the human race might have a long term chance. This book has made me think about this!

Although an ongoing problem we face is the unintended consequences of everything we do.

Sounds great- I am starting Chapter 4 now.

I love the idea of inventors being more driven to find solutions for climate change than they were for technological advances. Even if climate change were recognized and accepted as early as the 19th century, would solving this problem have been exciting enough to tackle?

Those unintended consequences keep coming up too. Even in examples where one product, seemingly better, replaces a previous product (thinking of palm oil replacing whale oil), you still end up with environmental issues to deal with. Something that seems like a solution has unintended consequences too.

Currently on Chapter 5. Yes, Sher, I did enjoy Chapter 4 a lot. The stories of the experiments reaching high altitudes in balloons was quite harrowing!

Hi Lin-- I just finished C 5, and I was curious if you have read a biography about Edison or Tesla or watched any of the wonderful documentaries on these two inventors?

For me -- electricity has been one of the most interest inventions of the 19th century.

I was amazed that Scientific American has been published since the mid 19th C. I went and looked at their website. Do you subscribe? I have some extra funds to put into magazines... and I was considering a subscription. I am a true-blue humanities person, but I saw many articles of interest.

I'm glad I bought this book in hard cover, because it will be a good reference to keep. She has packed this story with historical figures, dates, and details of all kinds.

Sher, no, I haven't read biographies of either of them, but have encountered them in books such as this one. A biography that focuses on one of them would be good.

My dad subscribed to Scientific American for years and years, and I grew up looking at them, but don't subscribe myself. I actually have stopped all of my magazine subscriptions but one (Backpacker) because I found that they piled up and didn't get read in a timely manner. I take that back- I also get the National Parks magazine because I donate to their charity organization. I do read science news online though. That's great that you find Scientific American interesting. I think a curious person such as yourself would find it a good read, even if it's not your main area of interest.

I am partway through Chapter 5. I am finding the book a bit uneven to read. I love when it becomes narrative driven and I get pulled into someone's story, and I dislike it when it becomes a litany of facts and starts to read like a Wikipedia entry. Within each chapter it seems to go back and forth between these two styles of writing. Have you noticed this?

Is anyone else still reading this book?

Sorry, I’m not able to read along this time. I don’t have the brain space for it. I’m blaming it on spring fever. I’m enjoying your reviews tho.

I really enjoyed reading about the competition between AC and DC. Sher, I think I’d like to read one of those biographies later this year.

The next chapter focuses on coal and the formation of the early environmental movement, including racist ideas. I was already familiar with Grinnell, Pinchot, and others, so this part of the book was quick to read.

It’s interesting how many of the people who got the conservation movement started were also racist and often proponents of eugenics. To read that the American Museum of Natural History hosted eugenics conferences…. wow.

Chapter 7 on oil was interesting and inspired me to look a little more into the Texas oil company that my grandfather worked for. The name of this company was Humble Oil (the "H" is silent- pronounced "Umble") and it started up in 1911. I knew it eventually became Exxon, so I discovered it was bought in 1959 by Standard Oil of New Jersey, which later became Exxon in the early 70's.

My grandfather passed away when I was still an infant and my mother receive half of the stocks he had earned as part of his compensation (my aunt got the other half). My only awareness of the significance of this was when summer came around and we went on a vacation with the dividend money.

That's a little bit of my family history when it comes to Texas oil, other than that while we no longer own any land in East Texas, my parents retained the mineral rights when they sold it.

Hi Lin-- I am still here. I am just swamped with classes I am taking and all the writing and reading that involves, and also with farm business, and a sick cat. But , I hope to respond back to your posts very soon--Sher

Lin wrote: "Chapter 7 on oil was interesting and inspired me to look a little more into the Texas oil company that my grandfather worked for. The name of this company was Humble Oil (the "H" is silent- pronoun..."

Wow, that is some interesting family history. I looked up the Rockefeller family last night to see who remains. The chap. on oil was really interesting despite me already knowing JD Rockefeller's biography quite well. Bell gives us so many of the little stories surrounding each big story. Ida Tarbell sounds like quite a brave and interesting woman. The mud racker era of journalism.

How do you like the casual written style of this book?

It seems obvious she is speaking to us. This book is on Audible, and she speaks like a book narrator. I guess this was an editorial decision. The casual tone o the writing - I think is positive, because her tone removes this book from academia and welcomes a wider audience.

Again and again I see how wrapped up in personal biography -- power and ambition -- progress is.

If only there were (men) out there seeking to gain their fame and fortune on developing technology to reduce carbon emissions.

Get rich! Find fame -- invent methods to reduce carbon emissions significantly-maybe someone would bite.

I'm just starting C 9.

I like the casual style of the book, but I wonder if I would like it more if I were listening to it.

I still find myself really going back and forth between being pulled into the writing and feeling like it's just a summary of information. It's all quite interesting, but I don't retain information well when it's presented at a more superficial level. Often the author has a footnote to a book she recommends for more information, and I find myself thinking that I'd like to read it because her book doesn't include the whole story. For example, she wrote about Texaco and referenced some of the company's inappropriate alliance with Franco. I was already familiar with this from recently reading a book about the Spanish Civil War, and the Texaco/Franco relationship was covered in much more detail and was more interesting to me because I knew the entire story.

This is not to say that I am not enjoying the book overall. Because this book has such a broad scope, it's impossible for it to give a deep understanding of all that it covers. I'm just realizing that I prefer books with a more narrow focus.

Lin:
You reminded me that this book reminds me of a literature review for PhD thesis. Right? So, the candidate reads all of these sources and writes up a summary of each source highlighting key ideas and then writes this all up and viola we have a booklet list of many sources we can go in and read for the greater details.

Our book pulls me in and pushes me out, but I still am enjoying the book and will keep it as a reference book.

That’s a good way of describing it, Sher.

And I agree, I still like the book and would recommend it to others.

I finished the book this morning. The last two chapters included much more science and politics, and reflect the climate history that we are all more familiar with. Be sure and notice the first sentence of the Acknowledgments at the end of the book- the book was inspired by a walk by a river, more specifically a walking tour of London on energy and climate change. I liked how that tied into the walking theme that's been going on lately in GR.

Overall, I'm left with a feeling of sadness and frustration. Once you finish the book, Sher, we can discuss further. No rush, though.

Hi Lin:
I finished the book yesterday. I felt like I got a clearer picture than ever of Harari's immature brain humans that he presented so vividly if controversially in Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. I think it is almost impossible for humans to see and do something about their actions that create harm to themselves and the planet. It's unfortunate because of the awesome suffering it causes across the spectrum of life, but it is the way it is. So, I guess I do not feel as frustrated by this book by the plunging future before us and the planet. Humans also do skillful and helpful things. We will always have pockets of skilled helpful things being down worldwide, it is just that these things will not be enough to save the species. Those who are driven more by altruistic feelings are not the beings in power. The driving forces of human life are propelled by ambition and greed. I do wonder if there will be life after we have destroyed life as we know it? And I wonder what it will be like. All we have really is literature --human's ideas of what it might be like --think Hunger Games and Atwood's Oryx and Crake... truly right at this moment we are living in the best of times. But, even this realization may not prevent the machine from rolling it all flat. I realize this will seem doom gloom to those who hope for a solution to global warming and the rabid use of resources, but really history proves -- gives us solid evidence of the way humans behave. I'll leave it with a return to the idea that some people will invent technology to help clean up the plastics and lower emissions, some small governments/nations will reach their carbon footprint goals, and art will continue to reflect a transcendent soul that will move us deeply, and spiritual traditions will Continue to provide comfort, but the ship has so left the greed dock --as our book shows.

Sher and Lin, although I didn't read this book, I enjoyed your insights. I'm with you both on the outlook. It is sad and frustrating, but history seems to repeat itself without deep learning. I truly believe a few humans will survive climate change if we're not able as a species to reverse our negative effects. Unless there is an event such as the dinosaur end-event that is even larger than the human impact on this planet. Lin, I like the mention that a walk inspired this text. It is my main inspiration these days too. Thanks both for reading and summarizing!

Hi Sher and Julie,

I just now saw your comments- thank you both for sharing them. Sher, I've spent some time sitting here really thinking about what you wrote and I think you described things very well. It does make me so sad to think about what future generations will have to face. How will they judge us?

Lin- that is a good question, but I am not sure it will be that simple. Two years ago we created a float for the Earth Day parade, and we had a huge banner that read " No one will blame you for global warming except your children." I did not write this, but upon looking back-- I feel this is oversimplified. This is a topic I am currently exploring through deep ecology-- eco poetics. I am coming at this issue - right now anyway from a different angle.