Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Hi all.

I have observed that almost every series loses readers as the series goes on. At least, this is my impression when I look at Goodreads ratings or Amazon ratings for any book series. It makes me curious if there is any way to keep readers reading from Book 1...to Book 5...10...and so on.

Every series that I see, the first book is always the most popular or most reviewed or rated one in the whole series! So, yeah.

And yes, even Harry Potter sold less books for the final few books, compared to the initial few books. Not knocking the series at all, just noting that even superstar series have this issue of readership that slowly declines or reader attrition issues.

If any readers can lend some insight into this phenomenon, I would like to hear about it. Thanks.

I am more worried about declining readership, period.

Strangely, it's the second book in my Wolves of Vimar series. It's sold fewer copies than one and three. So what's that about? Who would read book one then jump to book three.
As to is there a solution? I don't think so. It's a well-known phenomenon.

I think that any long running series eventually hits the point where the reader wants the impossible. They want the books to be exactly the same, because it is comfortable. They also want the books to be completely new and different, just as the first book was, when they first discovered it. These things are mutually incompatible, no such book can be written. This is not an attack on the reader, it is just something that will inevitably happen. You have likely felt the same yourself under other circumstances, a long running TV show perhaps? Maybe a film franchise? A favourite band? That last album not what you hoped for? All a writer can do is not let their own enthusiasm wane. To write the best book they can, a book they believe in. Having said that, I think many series these days go on too long, are stretched to breaking point. Whether that is from a desire to make money, or from the fear of not being able to come up with anything else that is as good I don't know. I would suggest it is better to be fondly remembered for writing four books that left readers desperate for a fifth, rather than ten books that left readers trying hard to remember why they liked the series in the first place. ☺ But what do I know? I'm probably just an old cynic.☺

A series that maintains a high-level of quality regarding writing style, character portrayal and development, logical continuity, and interesting plot development and evolution throughout will earn most avid readers' attention and loyalty. Such series will become a commercial success. Those that do not, will not.

Notabel examples of successful series that garnered such reader loyalty and significant commercial success include The Earth's Children 6-book series by Jean M. Auel, The Hunger Games 3-book series by Suzanne Collins, The Dark Tower 7-book series by Stephen King, A Song of Fire and Ice 5-book series by George R.R. Martin, The Divergent 3-book series by Veronica Roth, The Harry Potter 7-book series by J.K. Rowling, and The Lord of the Rings 3-book series by J.R.R. Tolkien.
(Listed alphabetically by author, not preference.)

I am not published, yet, so I can only explain so much. It does seem like declining readership in a series is the nature of a beast. A good series in of Itself is an accomplishment, yes.
As for general declining readership, I guess that is because of the evolution of multimedia. All movies and games still have a story, they just add visuals and music etc on top of the story to make it extra enticing to audiences.
There is a theory in video game design to put the best levels in the beginning, for the same reason as in book series, because they know some consumers won't reach the end. So, better to front load the best parts, in some developers' eyes. I prefer to not have that dazzling beginning followed with a meh middle, but that is only my personal opinion.

Three main things will ensure that a series stays popular with readers:
- Quality of the writing. By quality, I don't mean the perfection of the grammar or synthax, but rather the interest and suspense of the plot, which will keep readers asking for more. There are plenty of books written in perfect English but that are also a bore.
- Character development. A well-developped main character, along with secondary characters, will be a very important part of the success of a long-running series. A great MC, well developped and constantly growing and maturing, will often by itself attract readers back to your series. Readers will want to see how a well-liked MC is going in your newest book. That point is a primordial reason for the long-term success of a series, in my opinion. You can also add a new character from time to time, but do it only if that new character can really add interest to the story.
- Innovation. Yes, Space battles, gunfights or romantic disputes can become a bore if repetitive and always following a standard pattern. Be imaginative! Find new tricks, techniques or arguments for your MC to win! If those new moves are both realistic and come as a surprise to the readers, then you will have injected new blood in your story.

All in all, a series is not condemned to gradual oblivion in the long run. It all depends on the skill and imagination of the writer. One sure way to kill a series is to go again and again to the same bag of tricks and by not improving your MC with time.

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Phil wrote: "I am not published, yet, so I can only explain so much. It does seem like declining readership in a series is the nature of a beast. A good series in of Itself is an accomplishment, yes.
As for gen..."

Michael is right.

This is what I explain to the people i helped
I explain this to every author. Because I have a pattern.

I want to captures 3 parts of every reader.
1) Mind
2) Heart
3) Body

Mind = interest
Ways to do that is busy starting in the middle of a battle, or a murder, or a conversation. Or even an opening sex scene

Heart = emotions
Getting the reader to feel or love or hate. This is done through conversations of the characters. What is said, and how it is understood.
This will also help the reader stay engaged in the story

Body = making the person physically react
Getting the reader to put their hand on their heart. To pound the table in anger. To look around them in fear of being by yourself.

My favorite, to masturbate. Not just getting them turned on, but to stop and play while reading that part a few times until they orgasm. Once you receive an orgasm, the reader is hooked.

So the ultimate thing you want is for the reader to move while reading your book or force themselves to ho to sleep when they really don't want to

An average book does only captures one of these 3.
A good book captures 2 of the 3 body parts
A great book captures all 3.

This is why my books have been getting alot of binge readers.
Not I have. Pattern that no one notices.
Its so simple that it is very effective.

I write each chapter like its a movie or a scene. That way it flows and the readers can get lost with a mental image in their heads.
Now people don't realize it, but the readers are begging us to lie to them. Make up your own complete world. The two best examples are STAR WARS and Harry Potter. Non of those worlds exist. Yet everyone gets lost in them. So the point is LIE TO YOUR READERS. Don't be like everyone else's story. Put your own twist on it


Ok here are the 6 patterns I do in order:

1) Setting - where is this chapter taking place

2) Emotions - what emotions ipif the readers do I want to play with

3) Which characters are in this scene? 1,2,3? You are directing a movie remember.

4) What is being discussed by the characters?

5) How does the MC understand what is being said, or interpret what is being said?

6) Create an ending to the chapter that drags the reader to the next chapter, forcing them to binge read. I will show you examples of how to do that later.

Personally, for me, you have to care about the characters, the story and the setting to enjoy a series in a long run.

Michel wrote: "Character development. A well-developped main character, along with secondary characters, will be a very important part of the success of a long-running series. A great MC, well developped and constantly growing and maturing, will often by itself attract readers back to your series. Readers will want to see how a well-liked MC is going in your newest book. That point is a primordial reason for the long-term success of a series, in my opinion. You can also add a new character from time to time, but do it only if that new character can really add interest to the story."

Yes, make one invested with their quest, make the characters relatable with their thoughts and struggle. There can only so much to be done with spectacular twists and bombastic events, but great characters development would keep the readers engaged, but it has to be consistently developed if it makes sense.
Without going into the spoiler, let me pinpoint two TV series that I think ruin their investment in the character development to the point of butchering them, Game of Thrones and Dexter. It will become a point where readers/viewers start to lose interest because their investment is busted, some could feel cheated as well.

Robin wrote: "Having said that, I think many series these days go on too long, are stretched to breaking point. Whether that is from a desire to make money, or from the fear of not being able to come up with anything else that is as good I don't know. I would suggest it is better to be fondly remembered for writing four books that left readers desperate for a fifth, rather than ten books that left readers trying hard to remember why they liked the series in the first place."
Agreed wholeheartedly. Don't overstay the welcome, don't milk something until it's saturated.

Many of you brought up other great points too.

Allow me to add one more, if you are writing a series, don't let it go way too long. You should take time to make a great edition, but not to the point where another format is forced to take liberty and readers to lose interest. Ehm.. again, looking at GoT.

Decline in readership could be, because the same story is being written with a different hero and heroine. Decline in readership could also be, because only one or a few of the heroes caught the readers attention and they want to read their story and not the other heroes story that didn’t catch their attention.

Arch, that's a good point. That first point is one I should weigh because more than a few of my projects are series' that constantly jump character perspectives.

Personally, as a reader, I try to remain with a series until the writer decides to conclude the series. Then again, I haven't found an interest in a series that lasts very many books. I believe the longest series I followed was 15 books.

Maybe readers don't want to invest (whether time or money) into a series. A standalone book is less of a risk and requires less time and/or funds.

I haven't been able to seek out book six of, The Old Kingdom series by Garth Nix...not because I've lost interest in the series, but because these days, my biggest problem is getting my hands on the books I really, really want to read. I don't use e-readers and haven't mail-order since the pandemic. I have to go out of my way to buy a book...time I don't have to spare.

Maybe readers are reluctant to commit themselves to a series if they, for whatever reason, cannot remain committed. I mean, as a reader, I become attached to characters and their worlds...not being able to continue a series is grueling.

Interesting points, thanks.

Ann wrote: "Arch, that's a good point. That first point is one I should weigh because more than a few of my projects are series' that constantly jump character perspectives.

Personally, as a reader, I try to ..."

Ann, I buy my books from the library, thrift stores or garage sales. I even check out ebooks from the library (Libby, Overdrive, Hoopla), although, I prefer paperback books, but this way, the book returns itself. I hardly check out books though.

Thank you for asking this question Phil. Has me really analyzing my own projects. Great thread here

Arch: Oh, I love hunting for books at thrift or second-hand shops. It is always like finding treasure ;-D.

I do prefer paper. There seems something missing when I try to read off a screen...for the longer reads especially.

Ann wrote: "Arch: Oh, I love hunting for books at thrift or second-hand shops. It is always like finding treasure ;-D.

I do prefer paper. There seems something missing when I try to read off a screen...for th..."

I agree

Add more sex and you will increase readership for one or two books, would be my answer. After that, I think it's only natural that the modern attention span, trained to shrink shorter and shorter by social media, would decline.

Patrick wrote: "Add more sex and you will increase readership for one or two books, would be my answer. After that, I think it's only natural that the modern attention span, trained to shrink shorter and shorter b..."

Sex doesn’t move me. I want to see the chemistry and love between the hero and heroine. There are too many books about sex and not relationship. I don’t care how good the hero is supposed to be in bed. I want to see how much he loves the heroine. Sex doesn’t equal love to me. I want to be able to see if sex was minus out the book, if there is still a story. A real believable HEA.

To day, the world has developed that there are so many things to be read. Picking up your phone to glance through your email and social media within a couple of minutes, will leave you with no option than spending hours. Also, people who read those series, to while away time, do no longer need them since they have alternative.
It even takes discipline on the side of the people who really want to read series when such are appealing.
Apart from having lots to read, there are lots of responsibilities facing people.
However, the solution is to write on what people need, that they would not have any option rather than reading it.

Arch wrote: "Patrick wrote: "Add more sex and you will increase readership for one or two books, would be my answer. After that, I think it's only natural that the modern attention span, trained to shrink short..." Just pointing out how to increase sales using proven methods and tropes, not making a judgment of any kind.

I've noticed this too. I think it's just the nature of things. We live in a world that doesn't encourage sustained interest. People move on, lose track of things, and generally don't stick with something for too long. That's why I typically limit my book series to 3-5 books. I think that's the best I can expect readers or characters to stick with. Let's face it: one person can only take so much, and eventually life needs to settle into a new season unconnected with the story. It's the nature of human psychology and life. All things need to end. Otherwise, my characters would be so traumatized and paralyzed with post traumatic stress that they'd end out in a mental institution. No fun stories there. Or maybe that's an unexplored one. Hmm -

This leads to my next point. When a series continues on, it tends to get unbelievable and repetitive. I frequent my public library and have read several series that seemed to be repeating themselves after books 4, 5, and 6 and I wonder "how are these characters functional and sane after being almost killed 88 times?" Sure, there are formulaic writers and sometimes we appreciate that kind of predictability, but eventually you'll want something new.

Sherri wrote: "I've noticed this too. I think it's just the nature of things. We live in a world that doesn't encourage sustained interest. People move on, lose track of things, and generally don't stick with som..."

Hi Sherri,
How are things with you?
I agree with what you were saying regarding follow on books in a series. People I think move on and interests change as new books come out.
I am struggling to get my second book in the series more reviews, so what can you do except have faith in your work and keep on plugging it.
Best of luck to you. Jane

Jane wrote: "I am struggling to get my second book in the series more reviews..."

Hi Jane, for the second book in my series, I did a "freebooksy for a series" giveaway ($165 I think) for a day for the first book to get more notice and that helped my second book out with more sales (I made a profit over what I spent) and some more reviews.

Jane wrote: "Sherri wrote: "I've noticed this too. I think it's just the nature of things. We live in a world that doesn't encourage sustained interest. People move on, lose track of things, and generally don't..."
I have the same problem too. Good for book 1, less for book 2, and only a handful for book 3. I don't know writers who write exclusively in a series long-term get their readers hooked. I wish we both knew that secret!

I believe that the biggest factor in being able to retain the readers' interest in a long series of books is continued character development, followed by World building. Of those two, character development is by far the most important. As a main character (MC) grows, gains more experience, meet new people and learns new things (partly from past mistakes), that MC should continue to raise the interest of readers (if development is handled well by the writer). One of my most popular MCs started as a secondary character, learned from the story's MC and became a MC which eventually even surpassed the original MC in popularity with the readers. I emphasized in that MC her sense of humanity, compassion, moral standards (meaning good over evil, not sexual puritanism), courage and devotion to duty and country and that mix seemed to have hit a chord in my readers. If you continuously improve your MC's character, you should be able to retain your readership in a particular series.

Gail wrote: "Jane wrote: "I am struggling to get my second book in the series more reviews..."

Hi Jane, for the second book in my series, I did a "freebooksy for a series" giveaway ($165 I think) for a day for..."

Hi not sure I can do a book giveaway. I am not a self-published author, so can’t change my book prices unless I do a promotion through my publisher. Thanks anyway.

Michel wrote: "biggest factor in being able to retain the readers' interest in a long series of books is continued character development, followed by World building"

Right on, Michel. As a reader, that's pretty much my observation as well. Your readers need to stay invested in the characters and their stories, their worlds, their lives. I like series in which the characters grow and change, each book picking up the next step in the characters' lives, and characters may even come and go through a series, but retaining a core ensemble.

Example: I. J. Parker's Akitada series, for me. Now at 20+ books, with approximately a yearly cadence of new volumes. I buy them instantly when they come out, usually put them on top of my infinitely deep TBR pile, then devour them right away.

As a series goes on, though, as a reviewer I sometimes find less to say about each volume in a review; so beware that number of reviews may not strictly correlate with readership. I'd guess sales figures are better for understanding that. (As an "author", I've had consistently pretty flat sales figures for years.)

Michel wrote: "I believe that the biggest factor in being able to retain the readers' interest in a long series of books is continued character development, followed by World building. Of those two, character dev..."

I think you're right about that, Michel. I think back to the different series I've read over the years, and my main reason for continuing to read them is how much I loved the characters, followed by how much I enjoyed their world. I want to know what's going to happen to such and such character or how that character is going to handle this issue or problem.

Someone mentioned repetition as a series goes on, and that's a trap to watch out for. I loved Christopher Pike's Thirst series (aka The Last Vampire), but the last book published in the series fell flat for me, as it ended almost identically to one earlier in the series, leaving everything still just as unresolved. If he ever gave a proper ending, I would be happy, but I don't think he ever will, (and even if he did, I don't think it'll have the same impact after that earlier book.)

I think you should look at the issue like a reader - as a reader or viewer, what series (whether books, film, TV) do you follow, and why? Chances are, you are following character more than setting or plot. If you like, admire, are entertained by the character, you will probably forgive the one book that has a so-so plot device. On the other hand, you have to be very careful about radical shifts in the character's definition and remember that you will be obligated to any radical changes in the character's job, marital, parent status in future books, and that your readers may not go along with those changes in status.
You also have to remember that you only have one debut novel and that you cannot replicate the "romance" of that introduction. One trick to spice up the follow up book (one that I did) is to make Book #2 a holiday-themed book (Christmas in particular). Another strategy is to lay down enough landscape in Book 1 - characters, events, loose threads - that can be picked up and fleshed out in subsequent books.

I second what J said. In my Howard County Mystery series, the people I know who have followed it all talk about the characters. They enjoy the plots, too, but it's really the characters that keep them going through the series. I'm releasing the 4th book at the end of August, and in that I've brought a pair of minor characters to the fore, to provide something new for readers to get into. I hope readers will want to hear more about them, too, so they can help propel the series on.

thanks all