Debates discussion

What is everyone’s thoughts on Roe v. Wade being overturned today? How do you feel?

It’s great! States can now decide for themselves what is fair and what isn’t. Like the Heartbeat bill, which is a perfectly reasonable decision.

It sucks! For abortions which should be a right
and also every thing else it affects NEGATIVELY .
I am so sorry and worried for Everyone in the US
Especially everyone who isn’t a
Old straight cis white Christian man.

Abby wrote: "It sucks! For abortions which should be a right
and also every thing else it affects NEGATIVELY .
I am so sorry and worried for Everyone in the US
Especially everyone who isn’t a
Old straight ci..."

That’s rude. Please stay respectful of everyone else here

Concinnous wrote: "It’s great! States can now decide for themselves what is fair and what isn’t. Like the Heartbeat bill, which is a perfectly reasonable decision."

Agreed. It’s very reasonable. I heard Oklahoma already banned Abortion starting at conception! :)

Abby wrote: "It sucks! For abortions which should be a right
and also every thing else it affects NEGATIVELY .

Might I ask what is affected negatively?

I am so sorry and worried for Everyone in the US
Especially everyone who isn’t a
Old straight cis white Christian man."

Why not "Old straight cis white Christian man?"

I’m sorry if I came across as rude I didn’t intend
For it to come across that way. But I do strongly disagree with the decision.

Concinnous wrote: "It’s great! States can now decide for themselves what is fair and what isn’t. Like the Heartbeat bill, which is a perfectly reasonable decision."

I just REALT don't know why it's great. Seriously. States can now decide for themselves what is fair - states are governed by only a small group of people, and they do NOT speak for ALL WOMEN. And if 1 woman among that state needs an abortion, she is entitled to one.

I get that you are pro-life, i respect that. but i dont respect the fact that you're willing to support sth that backs up your belief only, and not other women's. Sorry to say that but I'm being completely honest. 🙂

Banning abortion is just banning SAFE abortion, bc there will always be a need for abortion, and what happens to poor women who need them? They'll seek illegal abortion. And if that kills their life, then I dont get the fuck how that's great.

Also, there will be women WHOSE FETUS IS ALREADY DEAD, or that its harming their health, and bc abortions are banned, they'll either HAVE TO GIVE BIRTH TO THAT DEAD BABY or GIVING BIRTH TO THAT DEAD BABY AND DIE. Thats psychologically AND physically harmful.

So I REALLY don't get what's great abt it.

Other things this negatively affects are woman’s access to birth control, same sex marriages, and other lgbtq rights.

Abby wrote: "Other things this negatively affects are woman’s access to birth control, same sex marriages, and other lgbtq rights."
...... and a lot of the ppl in this grp don't support same sex marriages and the lgbtq community........

I just REALT don't know why it's great. Seriously. States can now decide for themselves what is fair - states are governed by only a small group of people, and they do NOT speak for ALL WOMEN. And if 1 woman among that state needs an abortion, she is entitled to one.

What is "need" thought? Women are perfectly capable of using birth control, and if that woman chose to do sex then that's the result.

I get that you are pro-life, i respect that. but i dont respect the fact that you're willing to support sth that backs up your belief only, and not other women's. Sorry to say that but I'm being completely honest. 🙂

Being pro-life is my belief, being pro-choice is your belief, it goes both ways. Not trying to be rude by this, I'm just pointing it out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Banning abortion is just banning SAFE abortion, bc there will always be a need for abortion, and what happens to poor women who need them? They'll seek illegal abortion. And if that kills their life, then I dont get the fuck how that's great.

Single mothers can get support. I know someone who was unmarried and had a kid at 18. She needed help, but she loves that little boy and wouldn't trade him for the world.

Also, there will be women WHOSE FETUS IS ALREADY DEAD, or that its harming their health, and bc abortions are banned, they'll either HAVE TO GIVE BIRTH TO THAT DEAD BABY or GIVING BIRTH TO THAT DEAD BABY AND DIE. Thats psychologically AND physically harmful."

If the baby is dead that's not an abortion. An abortion is where the living baby is murdered. I had the process described to me once and it's horrible.

Abby wrote: "Other things this negatively affects are woman’s access to birth control, same sex marriages, and other lgbtq rights."

How? This shouldn't affect ANY of that.

Taking away the rights from someone who is already alive is worse than removing a clump of cells that may never even make it to birth/life.

Abby wrote: "Taking away the rights from someone who is already alive is worse than removing a clump of cells that may never even make it to birth/life."

But if it's just a clump of cells why do we pity women who have miscarriages?

Because it is a traumatic experience if you were trying to get pregnant for months or years even and you finally get pregnant and are planning to keep the child losing it would cause obvious emotional distress.

Abby wrote: "Because it is a traumatic experience if you were trying to get pregnant for months or years even and you finally get pregnant and are planning to keep the child losing it would cause obvious emotio..."

"keep the child" 🤨

Planing on Carrying the fetus to full term thus making them a child.

Abby wrote: "Planing on Carrying the fetus to full term thus making them a child."

So it's only a baby once it's born?

Concinnous wrote: "I just REALT don't know why it's great. Seriously. States can now decide for themselves what is fair - states are governed by only a small group of people, and they do NOT speak for ALL WOMEN. And ..."

"What is "need" thought? Women are perfectly capable of using birth control, and if that woman chose to do sex then that's the result."
R: Ok so even the ones who are married and for your standard "ALLOWED to have sex" and want to have a baby but that baby is harming the woman?? Or what if that baby is already dead?? Oh and abt birth control: OK so birth control is always successful. Ok that's very logical.
___________________
"Single mothers can get support. I know someone who was unmarried and had a kid at 18. She needed help, but she loves that little boy and wouldn't trade him for the world."
R: Ok now see how your argument is always based on unmarried people? Married couples can also need abortion 2 u know? And u know 1 person who got help. One. And just bc someone u know got help, that means every women in need will get help? Wth?_______
"If the baby is dead that's not an abortion. An abortion is where the living baby is murdered. I had the process described to me once and it's horrible."
R: Pls understand the definition of abortion before u argue. Abortion is the state of terminating the pregnancy. *terminating the pregnancy* in general. Ok? So that means terminating a pregnancy that has failed is also an abortion.

Concinnous wrote: "Abby wrote: "Because it is a traumatic experience if you were trying to get pregnant for months or years even and you finally get pregnant and are planning to keep the child losing it would cause o..."

AGAIN the main topic of this debate is Roe vs. Wade. It's abt banning abortion, not abt whether abortion is morally right or not. Which is the only point you're focusing on.

So u think that overturning RvW saves lives of babies who are not wanted by their parents. But im saying that it affects
1) grps of women who r poor
2) grps of women who NEED an abortion for their help bc as I said, abortion is not just abt "killing healthy babies", it's also abt "terminating failed pregnancies" :D
3) babies born with medical problems

"Ok so even the ones who are married and for your standard "ALLOWED to have sex" and want to have a baby but that baby is harming the woman?? Or what if that baby is already dead?? Oh and abt birth control: OK so birth control is always successful. Ok that's very logical.

Anyone is "allowed" to have sex, it's just not right until you're married. Do whatever you want, I don't care, but I will live by my standards.

I already said this, if the baby is dead, it's not an abortion.

Did I say that? No. But if both parties use it, it is unlikely.

Ok now see how your argument is always based on unmarried people? Married couples can also need abortion 2 u know? And u know 1 person who got help. One. And just bc someone u know got help, that means every women in need will get help? Wth?

Most married people want kids. That leaves a much smaller group of examples. And I actually know three, but I used her because I know her best.

Pls understand the definition of abortion before u argue. Abortion is the state of terminating the pregnancy. *terminating the pregnancy* in general. Ok? So that means terminating a pregnancy that has failed is also an abortion"

Then that definition needs to be changed. If the baby is dead, it's not the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6SMx...

Lavender Mystique wrote:
1) grps of women who r poor

Support is available. Literally walk into a church.

2) grps of women who NEED an abortion for their help bc as I said, abortion is not just abt "killing healthy babies", it's also abt "terminating failed pregnancies" :D

I disagree with that. If the baby is dead it is perfectly reasonable to have it taken out.

3) babies born with medical problems

Actually, funny story. Doctors told my parents my little brother was going to have issues and advised an abortion. That little boy is perfectly healthy.

Anyone is "allowed" to have sex, it's just not right until you're married. Do whatever you want, I don't care, but I will live by my standards.

R: i KNOW that's ur belief! I respect that! But married couples need abortions 2....!

There are other reasons to terminate a pregnancy other than just not wanting kids such as health and resource just because your married and want kids doesn’t mean you won’t need or want to terminate a pregnancy

"I already said this, if the baby is dead, it's not an abortion."

U said that and i disagreed 🙂

And also, all the women who support abortion

And they've been saying that for a long time and apparently no one cared

Lavender Mystique wrote: "And also, all the women who support abortion"

???

Most married people want kids. That leaves a much smaller group of examples. And I actually know three, but I used her because I know her best.

Im done 🙂 If u refuse to read the arguments women are actually making to support abortion then lets just end this here 🙂

Then that definition needs to be changed. If the baby is dead, it's not the same

Apparently RvW has already been overturned so u should have advocated for the definition to be changed earlier 🙂

Lavender Mystique wrote: "Most married people want kids. That leaves a much smaller group of examples. And I actually know three, but I used her because I know her best.

Im done 🙂 If u refuse to read the arguments women ar..."

???
And you refuse to agree at all. I said if a woman wants a dead baby out of her body that's perfectly reasonable but you somehow manage to disagree with that.

Lavender Mystique wrote: "Then that definition needs to be changed. If the baby is dead, it's not the same

Apparently RvW has already been overturned so u should have advocated for the definition to be changed earlier 🙂"

I didn't even realize it was considered an abortion until you told me, so how was I supposed to?

Concinnous wrote: "Lavender Mystique wrote: "Most married people want kids. That leaves a much smaller group of examples. And I actually know three, but I used her because I know her best.

Im done 🙂 If u refuse to r..."

u SAID thats perfectly reasonable but thats NOT WHAT THE GOV SAID OK??

RvW being overturned means that women with dead babies cant terminate that pregnancy ok?

I didn't even realize it was considered an abortion until you told me, so how was I supposed to

Well...ur supposed to research it before u say that RvW being overturned is a great thing ... 🙂

Just to encapsulate, u all agree that terminating a failed pregnancy is perfectly reasonable right? I agree 2. But 'terminating a failed pregnancy' is also abortion. That's why there r so many ppl being worried abt RvW being overturned.... So pls dont say its great....

u SAID thats perfectly reasonable but thats NOT WHAT THE GOV SAID OK??

RvW being overturned means that women with dead babies cant terminate that pregnancy ok?

Well...ur supposed to research it before u say that RvW being overturned is a great thing ... 🙂

I'm so confused as to why you're getting mad. I think reasonable states will allow for women with dead babies inside them to get "abortions."

You don't think I have? This will at least help with abortion issues and make people be more careful. I honestly don't see downsides to it, as long as states are reasonable in the dead baby department.

Lavender Mystique wrote: "Just to encapsulate, u all agree that terminating a failed pregnancy is perfectly reasonable right? I agree 2. But 'terminating a failed pregnancy' is also abortion. That's why there r so many ppl being worried abt RvW being overturned.... So pls dont say its great...."

Yeah, that's reasonable. And I don't think people need to be worried about that, I think most people will see it as reasonable.

"reasonable states" is not gonna assure anyone.....
____
"This will at least help with abortion issues and make people be more careful"
R: its not
____
And I don't think people need to be worried about that
R: Ppl do...
-----
I'm so confused as to why you're getting mad.
R: And im so confused as to why ur so calm

I'm just gonna put my two cents in then leave and go to bed for the night. I remembered that we talked about this in college.

The professors told us how there was a lot of medical research that was advanced by using the recycled tissue of dead babies harvested from abortions. That it was instrumental in stem cell research. That the tissue was very useful for other research applications. Like they discovered that blood from infants can help older people fight of diseases if a transfusion is performed. It is a multi million dollar industry that would take a big hit if Roe v Wade was overturned.

Lavender Mystique wrote: ""reasonable states" is not gonna assure anyone.....
____
"This will at least help with abortion issues and make people be more careful"
R: its not."

Reasonable states as in all states. I honestly don't think a single one will turn down a woman's request to remove a dead baby.

Why not? You don't think that not being able to have an abortion will make people think twice?

No offence but it is kind of sad that that is your bar for a reasonable state.

Concinnous wrote: Reasonable states as ..."

See, if a woman wants to remove a dead baby, that means they need to have an abortion. If they want to have an abortion and abortion is being banned, then they can't. And if they take it as far as appealing the matter to the court, it's not gonna be as simple as taking a few days and done, ur wish is granted! Its gonna take forever

Why not? You don't think that not being able to have an abortion will make people think twice?
no...bc 1) as u said, married ppl do want a child and 2) tbh most of the time when ppl r having sex theyre not gonna think of anything else....

Austin wrote: "I'm just gonna put my two cents in then leave and go to bed for the night. I remembered that we talked about this in college.

The professors told us how there was a lot of medical research that w..."

.............. i honestly dont know what to think of that

Abby wrote: "No offence but it is kind of sad that that is your bar for a reasonable state."
.... yeh..... esp when some of the states have already supported banning abortion knowing perfectly well the definition of it

See, if a woman wants to remove a dead baby, that means they need to have an abortion. If they want to have an abortion and abortion is being banned, then they can't. And if they take it as far as appealing the matter to the court, it's not gonna be as simple as taking a few days and done, ur wish is granted! Its gonna take forever

Hence, the exception. And it's not my wish, thank you very much.

no...bc 1) as u said, married ppl do want a child and 2) tbh most of the time when ppl r having sex theyre not gonna think of anything else....

They should consider the effect of their actions. Just like when it comes to drunk driving.

Oh! I was just gonna come on here and ask you guys about this, but @Luna and all the rest of you beat me to it by, like, miles. 😂🤍

@Lavender Mystique I hope it's okay if I jump in here, but I just wanted to clarify that miscarriage management is not an abortion. An abortion is defined by the intentional killing of an an embryo or fetus. With a miscarriage, the baby is already dead, unfortunately. If you look at the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists' stance on this, all the pro-life OBGYNs still perform D&Cs for miscarriages, and overturning Roe won't restrict that, either.

Again there are many reasons why a married person would get an abortion even if they want children. Also if people are having sex and accidentally get pregnant why take a way the recourse and option to fix it.

I have a quick question for everyone, regardless of whether you're pro-life or pro-choice. Would you guys equate Roe being overturned with abortion being banned? I keep hearing from people from both sides who believe this, but that's not true. Dobbs just gives the decision back to the States since abortion was never a constitutional right. I hope that clarifies a few things. Abortion isn't being federally banned in the US. It just also isn't being federally mandated, either.