Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our August 22 challenge read of Malice Aforethought by Francis Iles a pseudonym for Anthony Berkeley
(Anthony Berkeley Cox) (1893 - 1971) who also used the name A Monmouth Platts and was a founding member of The Detection Club.

First published in 1931, this mystery has been called an extraordinary mystery landmark, brilliant and innovative, which not only "established a distinctive new subgenre of 'inverted' novels" (Malcolm Turnbull), but also, according to critic/author Julian Symons, begat "the post-war realistic crime novel."

Summer. 1930. The hottest day of the year. And Dr Bickleigh has murder in mind.

Please do not post spoilers in this thread. Thank you.

On a balmy summer's day in 1930 the great and the good of the county are out in force for the annual, much-anticipated tennis party at the Bickleighs, although not everyone has much enthusiasm for the game. The tennis party exists for other reasons - and charmingly mannered infidelity is now the most popular pastime in the small but exclusive Devonshire hamlet of Wyvern's Cross.

Which is why, in his own garden, the host, Dr Edmund Bickleigh, is desperately fighting to conceal the two things on his mind: a mounting passion for Gwynyfryd Rattery - and the certain conviction that he is going to kill his wife . . .

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

This really didn't work for me. The blurb told us that the main character, Dr Bickliegh, was going to kill his wife. The first half of the book was a description of a lecherous older man, who was a family GP, and his various romances. Once I had struggled through to the "Oh Madeleine" "Oh Edmund" I was ready to give up. I don't read romances because of this sort the thing. The second half went on to tell us how the doctor was still ready to "flirt" with anyone once he had murdered his wife, and his jealousy and wanting to seek his revenge on those who he saw as doing him wrong. Planning more murders, he enlists one of his former lovers, whose husband is causing him trouble, to find out what is being done to show he had murdered his wife. This second half was more interesting, although I had got to the point where I didn't care what happened to him. Therefore the extra star.

I had a difficult time getting through this one. My only reaction to the first 100 pages was disgust at all the characters. What a nasty group. I soon tired of Teddy trying to rationalize his selfish desires but couldn't summon any sympathy for Julia or Madeleine. Only my irrational determination to finish a book I started got me to continue.

I did get more involved in the second half of the book as Teddy tried to eliminate his enemies. The missteps and complications of his "genius" plans added to my interest. Overall, it was a depressing look into a sociopath's mind. The quirky ending was satisfying though.

Sorry you didn't like it all that much, Jill and Chris. Must say I really enjoyed it - I loved to hate Bickleigh, and enjoyed Berkeley's sarcasm about the self-centred way he presents things to himself - for instance, deciding that any woman who turns him down isn't worth happening and what's more he actually turned her down, come to think of it!

I found Julia increasingly sympathetic as the book goes on, partly because of the fact that she sees through Madeleine and even takes the trouble to warn the ghastly Teddy, and also because she suffers so much at the hands of her appalling husband. I also enjoyed the fact that he overreaches himself by plotting the extra attempted murders in the second half of the book.

I also agree with you that I liked the quirky ending, Chris.

It seemed to me that most of the women saw what Madeleine was like, but the men were blind to it. I thought that by giving him a year to get over it, she was not only looking after herself, but him too. Ofcourse, she didn't expect him to kill her. The end was pleasing.

I gave up half way through. I found all the characters appalling, and didn't understand how the presumably unattractive Bickleigh kept scoring with most of the beautiful young women. I just found the whole set up caused my skin to crawl and so decided not to finish-I will check back in here to find out what happens!

Judy wrote: "Sorry you didn't like it all that much, Jill and Chris. Must say I really enjoyed it - I loved to hate Bickleigh, and enjoyed Berkeley's sarcasm about the self-centred way he presents things to him..."

That's what makes us humans interesting. We don't all like or dislike the same type of books.

Finished, and gave 3.5 stars for the wonderful writing and dark humor, but really not my kind of mystery, I don’t enjoy being in the mind of such a nasty, malicious, misogynistic killer.

Two questions - anyone wonder what Julia wanted to talk to Edmund about right after he gave her the fatal dose? Edmund just wanted to get away, told her to go lay down; I thought we might learn later, a note left by her, perhaps. It seemed significant at the time, as she didn’t know she was about to die.

Second, anyone else get very creepy vibes from poor Ivy’s relationship with her husband? The way he was asking her in the car on the way home if she was “innocent” when she took up with Edmund. She was a pathetic character, what she put up with from Edmund, then frying pan into fire!

Wonderfully wicked satire. The part where Madeleine plays Birkleigh like a Stradivarius is brilliantly done. :-) And his development from an outwardly meek little husband into a monster is fascinating to watch.

But I couldn't quite figure out Madeleine's endgame. Just writing her off as "unbalanced" was a bit of a letdown, after I spent so long trying to guess what she was trying to gain. I did like the payoff from his premature announcement to her that Julia was dead; Iles took his time with that one but then brought it back just at the right moment.

The part about the typhoid bacillus at the end was a little difficult to follow. It felt like it was brought in very late in the game, and the details were somewhat difficult to grasp for my non-scientific mind. So when everything ended up depending on that, I felt a little at sea! Objectively speaking, though, it was a good twist.

On the whole, I liked it. Four stars.

Gina wrote: "Wonderfully wicked satire. The part where Madeleine plays Birkleigh like a Stradivarius is brilliantly done. :-) And his development from an outwardly meek little husband into a monster is fascinat..."

Thank you for bringing that up! I couldn’t figure out what Madeleine was up to, either. I really thought at first she was just drippy, then I thought, perhaps she’d heard of Edmund’s reputation with the ladies, and wanted to toy with him or something? Other women seemed to see through her, but none of the men did. Then once she’s married, we hear about her screaming at her husband, as if she’s possessive, but that doesn’t explain the way she toyed with Edmund. Strange!

Yes, the payoff of his premature announcement that Julia was dead, when he couldn’t have innocently known, was very satisfying. I thought, as soon as he said it, that Madeleine would tell the police and it would be over right then - they always suspect the spouse first!

I also was thrown at the end, when Edmund was so sure he got away with everything, and they get him on the typhoid thing. They kept talking about sanitation, and Madeleine’s drains, but Edmund dismissed it as her being too mean to do repairs, so I forgot about it!

I really liked this one and despite it not being a mystery as such, I still found it very compelling, to the extent of staying up to the early hours to finish it off. I agree that the characters were particularly unpleasant in this, but while in other novels that has mrant I couldn't have cared less what happened to them, in thos one I did care, even if it was just to make sure they got pinished for their misdeeds. I also found I couldn't work out Madeleine's motives, and also why so many people were interesred in Bicksliegh, perhaps he played up the underdog and made everyone sorry for him that way? We all like to see an underdog triumph.

I liked this one well enough - mostly for Berkeley's sarcasm and snide remarks - and I was interested in the outcome. I guessed that Birkleigh would be blamed for Denny's typhoid death (my second guess was that he would say something damaging on the stand once he was feeling confident).

However, I am sure that Madeleine killed Denny somehow and while that didn't seem to happen in the book, I remain convinced of her guilt. And that she did in her parents as well.

I am also one who was expecting we would learn what Julia wanted to say to Birkleigh.

I agree that the entire village was populated with people I never want to meet.

P.S. Yes, Ivy's husband is one of the very unpleasant characters in the book and I don't predict a lot of happiness for her. I assume she was sent to Spain because her husband suspected the resumption of her affair. Maybe she can find a way to stay there.

Sandy wrote: "P.S. Yes, Ivy's husband is one of the very unpleasant characters in the book and I don't predict a lot of happiness for her. I assume she was sent to Spain because her husband suspected the resumpt..."

I hope so, for her sake! I felt sorry for her by the end.

Sandy wrote: "I liked this one well enough - mostly for Berkeley's sarcasm and snide remarks - and I was interested in the outcome. I guessed that Birkleigh would be blamed for Denny's typhoid death (my second g..."

Ooohhhh, interesting thoughts on Madeleine possibly killing her parents, then Denny. Intriguing possibilities there - by extension, makes me think she was a murderous psychopath, who out-psychoed Bickleigh the psychopath!

I think we’d all agree, not the village anyone wants to retire to! ;)

I enjoyed this one a lot, mainly due to Berkeley's snide writing.

Bickleigh is such an unstable character: he's confident and has an inferiority complex; he's scared of women and he's a seducer of women; he's clever and yet he makes stupid mistakes. All of that added up to a fascinating character.

I also loved the way Berkeley leaves us thinking the doctor's got away with it all the way to the end... only to pull out that piece of unjust justice in the final pages!

Susan in NC wrote: "Two questions - anyone wonder what Julia wanted to talk to Edmund about right after he gave her the fatal dose? "

I thought she was going to tell him that Madeleine was 'cheating' on him with Denny - after all, that was made quite obvious to us as readers. Julia may even have known about the engagement.

So much irony here: that if he'd listened to Julia he might never have murdered her, and thus wouldn't have been exposed to the irony of killing for a woman who's just married some other man. That was such a great climax to part one.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Two questions - anyone wonder what Julia wanted to talk to Edmund about right after he gave her the fatal dose? "

I thought she was going to tell him that Madeleine was 'cheati..."

I like that theory of Julia's undelivered message to Edmund and all the ramifications. There wouldn't have been a murder and thus no book, so Berkeley needed him to ignore her.

I had mixed feelings about this one. I liked the set-up very much and Iles' (Berkeley's) writing is nicely witty, but it really began to drag for me in the middle. The combination of the endless sexist stereotypes and what felt like a very slow, drawn-out process of Edmund working himself up to actual murder became something of a struggle - even though I liked the portrayal of Edmund's psyche. That mixture of arrogance and insecurity is hard to portray and it was well done, as was his development from apparently timid, downtrodden husband into uncaring killer.

I liked the last part a lot, too, with the delicate police investigation and the excellent courtroom scenes. With all the sudden discussion of typhoid bacilli, I suspected something like the actual ending (possibly because I remembered C.S. Forrester's Payment Deferred, too).

Overall, I wasn't as keen as many, but I liked a good deal of it and am glad to have read it. My review, if interested: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Roman Clodia wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Two questions - anyone wonder what Julia wanted to talk to Edmund about right after he gave her the fatal dose? "

I thought she was going to tell him that Madeleine was 'cheati..."

Good point!

Sid wrote: "I had mixed feelings about this one. I liked the set-up very much and Iles' (Berkeley's) writing is nicely witty, but it really began to drag for me in the middle. The combination of the endless se..."

Excellent review, Sid, I agree with you about the pacing (slowing in the middle, picking up for the last bit), and I also got tired of the female stereotypes.

Roman Clodia wrote: "So much irony here: that if he'd listened to Julia he might never have murdered her..."

This reminds me that towards the end he starts feeling sorry for himself because he hasn't got Julia to look after him any more! He really is a monster.

I forgot to comment on this, though I finished some days ago.
Not my kind of mystery, but a good psychological study. I also wondered that so many women were attracted by Bickleigh, but most of the women also had their negative sides, though I had had hope for Madeleine.
I wondered what the ending meant? Was Dennis really killed, but by someone else?

I have to admit that the climax didn't really work for me. I thought that Madeleine might have killed Dennis, but more probably he just succumbed to poor drainage ...

If Madeleine wanted to marry and kill a husband (just for the sake of it ...), surely she could have done that with Bickleigh. I don't remember Dennis being particularly well-off, so who would have benefitted from his death?

I assumed Denny died from the poor drainage that Madeleine couldn't be persuaded to upgrade - the idea of Madeleine murdering him didn't occur to me.

Judy wrote: "I assumed Denny died from the poor drainage that Madeleine couldn't be persuaded to upgrade - the idea of Madeleine murdering him didn't occur to me."

Yes, that was my assumption, too.

And I assumed Madeleine murdered Denny because she was tired of being married to him. She did seem to be dead set against divorce. Widowhood would be acceptable.

Judy wrote: "I assumed Denny died from the poor drainage that Madeleine couldn't be persuaded to upgrade - the idea of Madeleine murdering him didn't occur to me."

I thought the drainage got him, too, otherwise why was it mentioned early on, like a clue? It bothered Edmund, he couldn’t persuade Madeleine to fix it - I couldn’t decide if we were supposed to think she was cheap, or stubborn, or why it mattered to him so much - unless, as a doctor, he thought it could make her ill? I’ve read many older British books in which “drains” are mentioned, this refers to “sanitation”, and I’ve been confused- are we talking latrines, toilets that don’t flush, what? They always dance around the subject, so I’m not sure what exactly they are referring to. I can’t believe something that can make you sick and die would go on for decades!

I didn’t think of Madeleine as murdering her husband, either - honestly wasn’t sure what to make of her, why she enjoyed tricking men, putting on the act?

I should have said that there is no support in the book for my conviction that Madeleine is a murderer. The drains (whatever they are) are brought up early in the book, so Berkeley probably thought that was what killed Denny. But I believe Madeleine was devious enough to delude her creator.

Just finished, and I liked it. I agree that there are not many sympathetic characters at all. It was a strange feeling to be rooting against Teddy at the end. But I enjoyed getting into his mind, especially during the trial. The ironic ending was very satisfying.

Mary wrote: "Just finished, and I liked it. I agree that there are not many sympathetic characters at all. It was a strange feeling to be rooting against Teddy at the end. But I enjoyed getting into his mind, e..."

I actually began to root for Teddy's acquittal during the trial. He was truly horrible, but the author so skillfully put the reader into Teddy's shoes, that I found myself wanting him to get away with it. When the jury handed down a "not guilty" verdict, I came to my senses again, and was pleased with the final ironic twist that brought a sense of round-about justice to the tale.

Tania wrote: "I really liked this one and despite it not being a mystery as such, I still found it very compelling, to the extent of staying up to the early hours to finish it off. I agree that the characters we..."
Madeleine seemed to be a person who likes to create drama at all times. She even created day to day drama- we must be together--no wait, we can't be together! I found her just a tad more unlikeable than Teddy.