Literary Horror discussion

Join us for our November 2022 monthly read, J.A.W. McCarthy's collection Sometimes We're Cruel and Other Stories.

This book is a finalist for the 2021 Shirley Jackson Awards for single-author collection. I'm having trouble tracking down reviews unfortunately, but the publisher's page has some endorsements:
https://cemeterygatesmedia.com/2021/0...

It's available on paper and as an e-book. Let's start close to next weekend.

Hi Bill! Okay awesome can’t wait ! I’ll probably purchase this book today and will be ready to go next weekend! Thank you !

There's an author interview for the collection here, if anyone is interested:
https://cursedmorsels.libsyn.com/jaw-...

Thanks Netanella!

@Bill: Thank you for your effort. I am looking forward to start the book the next weekend.
@Netanella: Thank you for the Interview link. I will certainly listen to it after reading the book.

I will start during this weekend

Sometimes we’re cruel - loved it! It reminded of a series I used to watch as kid called Eerie Indiana. The stories in that show were not horror but were uncanny. I had the same feeling with this story. I finished reading it with a smile.

@Haha, I was far away from a smile at the end of the first story! I guess my face looked visibly disgusted. I left it with a kind of morbid fascination, but in a really good way.

Also I truly enjoyed the foreword. This was surprisingly interesting and well written.

You do what you're told:

(view spoiler)[Does the outside-woman kill the men with the knive? So this is the reason that there isn't a new woman the next evening?(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Schalka wrote: "You do what you're told:

[spoilers removed]"

Yes. That is the reason.

Thank you, Vavita!!

Do what you are told.

A clever depiction of men abusing their position of power over women. Do what you are told. Be like I want it. Don’t think, just do my dirty work.
(view spoiler)[I think it tries to represent reality: how many women are abused and silenced, only one has the means to stand against the violence. I liked that ending. (hide spoiler)]

Every year when the Shirley Jackson shortlist is announced, I usually try to read most of the nominees for single-author collection. This is the fourth of the 2021 nominees I've looked at so far. (No, it did not win.) The title story blows away anything I've read from the other three. I really like how the girls' coming-of-age and family traumas interweave with the disappearances. Wouldn't mind a little tightening of the writing, but overall it works well. That ending sequence took me by surprise, and the last paragraph is so beautiful.

Vavita wrote: "Yes. That is the reason."

That's my reading as well.

@Bill: Sounds like we have chosen the right one for this group read!

With you as my anchor:
I felt very uncomfortable with this one. (view spoiler)[People who are able to share a body or a mind? That always gives me the creeps ((: I am a person who really appreciates the distance to other people and to be alone in my mind and my body, I guess!(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]
But at the same time it was very moving and kept my interest from the beginning to the end! (hide spoiler)]

With you as my anchor

This was disturbing. (view spoiler)[Just to imagine the shock of Anya’s parents when seeing Ramona entering the house… But, I completely understand her. She was still in shock from what happened and most probably going through a depression. (hide spoiler)]

I also found "With You as My Anchor" very disturbing and effective. Not so much the (view spoiler)[telepathy between the girls (was that even real?) (hide spoiler)], but Ramona's (view spoiler)[body horror approach to processing her grief (hide spoiler)], which made me progressively more queasy with each development. It's firmly anchored in Ramona's depression and experience, otherwise this sort of thing tends not to work for me in fiction.

Other than Vavita, Schalka and me, has anyone else started the collection? Which story are you at? Just checking if we can be a little more lax with the spoiler tags.

@Bill Hsu: You have a point there, maybe it wasn't real. (view spoiler)[Maybe Anya simply wasn't a good swimmer and Ramona was just away with the fairys?(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] I think, I am sometimes to gullible even when the narrator seems to be unreliable. (hide spoiler)]

Schalka wrote: "@Bill Hsu: You have a point there, maybe it wasn't real."

I certainly believed in Ramona's version of events in the beginning, when she seemed really likable. Then either she started going off the deep end, or all the uncanny transformations actually happened!

Schalka wrote: "@Bill Hsu: You have a point there, maybe it wasn't real."

Good point. I had not thought about that. at least for me, (view spoiler)[the telepathy was not so important. The dependency of Ramona, her not having any other friends, feeling that her father was not family enough and wishing for something else, that was the most horrible thing. Maybe she was already crazy? Maybe she drowned Anya and blocked the memory? (hide spoiler)]

Vavita wrote: "Schalka wrote: "@Bill Hsu: You have a point there, maybe it wasn't real."

Good point. I had not thought about that. at least for me, [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Oh no, I don't like that idea, she didn't drown her...No, no, no....I don't got the impression of her being that bat shit crazy... (hide spoiler)]

Black Doves:

(view spoiler)[I wonder if Holly and Bud know about Heathers motivation for the killings. I feel like they do and they take advantage out of her insanity. (Or are the doves in this case real? This time I don't think so...) (hide spoiler)]
For that reason I especially loved the last two sentences. The ending is the best part of it, for me.

"Black Doves" was another uncomfortable, absorbing read. I love the innocent-seeming opening.

I thought the (view spoiler)[home invasion sequence was too drawn-out (hide spoiler)], though it did hold my attention, in a similar way as (view spoiler)[Michael Haneke's Funny Games movies (hide spoiler)].

I'm not sure if the doves actually exist, but they sure sound beautiful. I love the ending as well.

By now we know the author can sculpt these disturbing narratives in which family trauma and (view spoiler)[body horror (hide spoiler)] are entangled. I was squirming through "Those Who Made Us", with the tender but unorthodox mother-daughter interactions, and their (view spoiler)[warped Frankenstein-ian project (hide spoiler)]. Very little fiction makes me uncomfortable, and McCarthy seems to have figured out how to do this.

"Those who made us"
I agree, Bill Hsu.
(view spoiler)[The very Frankenstein-ish plot is interesting especially because of the strange mother-daughter relationship. How they interact makes the characters somehow relatable. Even though I still was hoping the lady with the baseball bat would successfully fight them.<\spoilers> (hide spoiler)]

Black Doves..
Amazing. (view spoiler)[ White doves represent peace and love, I guess the black ones were the corrupted love she was setting free? Inevitably, all love transforms into hate and her mission is clear…she needs to act fast. (hide spoiler)]

Those who made us
Too sweet at the end. LOL! I was hoping for something nastier.

The flame that takes
I found it quite boring

You are the arm
I liked this one a lot. (view spoiler)[Do you believe energy is stored in places like houses? They can turn us into crazy people? (hide spoiler)]

Hi Everyone !! Are we starting to read this book now !? Omg if we have I am so behind ! These days have been crazy !! I’ll start reading today !

The flames that takes

I can see why Vavita thinks the story is boring. Actually it isn't as good as some of the others, I agree. But I was still able to enjoy it and I wasn't bored. Again, I loved the ending! McCarthy is really good in writing endings on point. I appreciate that because there's nothing worse than pointless short stories...

Exactly as I am meant to be
I really liked this one. I don’t know why I kept imagining Rose as one of the little monsters from the 1973 movie “Don’t be afraid of the Dark”.

When your Ghost comes in
I loved it! It was not scary, not even dark in nasty way as some of the other stories. In this one, the horror is the fear of, basically ‘what happens when you don’t own your own body?’ ‘What if living your life is reduced to fulfill someone else’s dreams.’ (view spoiler)[Poor Tommy or poor Beau?. (hide spoiler)]

You are the arm:

@Vavita: No, I don't believe in this kind of energy in buildings, but who knows(((-:
(view spoiler)[I liked the idea, that people feel the need to kill themselves because of the house.<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

I thought "The Flame that Takes" read like it was written much earlier than the others so far. Doesn't have McCarthy's usual focus. I had a lot of trouble with it.

I really enjoyed "You Are the Arm". I like how disturbing it was when the landlady pretended not to see the slime. (She really thought she could just ignore it?) Another sharp and satisfying ending (view spoiler)[with the body horror taking over (hide spoiler)].

You are the arm
@Bill Hsu:
(view spoiler)[The landlady was great. I was completely sold in the beginning and I totally thought she really couldn't see it. She's obviously a good actress so it was worth the try... ((-:<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Schalka wrote: "No, I don't believe in this kind of energy in buildings, but who knows(((-:"

Well, you know how you go to somebody's house and the house of the clothes smell like them? Well, I think you can also leave your "mark" or traces of your energy in place. Finally, energy transforms matter, so maybe there is some transformation that we cannot see.

Contrition

To be honest, this story sounded a bit like Stephen King. I cannot pinpoint which book it reminded me of. I liked it very much.

Exactly as I am meant to be

(view spoiler)[Arghh, she took out her eye!!! I hate that!!!<\spoiler>
But besides that, it was a nice story. I didn't expected it to end like that and it took me by surprise.

@Vavita: I don't know that movie. Would you recommend it? (hide spoiler)]

"Contrition" reminded me of the movie "In the Mouth of Madness," a John Carpenter film that came out in the 1990s. I haven't read much of Stephen King's later works.

Schalka wrote: "
@Vavita: I don't know that movie. Would you recommend it? “

Definitely! But, I don’t think you can find it anywhere. There is a newer version with Katie Holmes but, I didn’t like that one.

Something all the girls want.
This was creepy! The grandma and the doll were too much.

Girls tied to trees..
This reminded me of this old movie with Tom Hanks called: Mazes and Monsters. It also involves “a game”. And, at some point someone says: “The worst monsters are the ones in our heads.” ( or something similar)

I am done and I am giving this 5 stars. I never lost interest and, besides one story, all of them had a horrible, creepy element. Great stories and great endings!

After my disappointment with "The Flame that Takes" (hey, the author is setting very high standards), the following story and "Exactly As We Are Meant to Be" are returns to form. Some recurring themes here, (view spoiler)[the creepy mother/daughter duo, another Frankenstein-ian variation (hide spoiler)], but the alternating narrators give it a somewhat different feel from "Those Who Made Us". I was also blindsided by the ending. (view spoiler)[So Ella decided to walk out of her life and give it up to Rose? Is she doing this because she doesn't see the alternative as being workable? (hide spoiler)] I'm not sure I'm completely convinced, but it's certainly nicely executed and thought-provoking.

I really liked how much plot was crammed into "Sometimes We're Cruel." (view spoiler)[I liked how the mother had figured out so much of the mystery. The author is great with the little details, like the main character considering letting her mother think she's gone missing. (hide spoiler)]

"You Do What You're Told" explored the concept very thoroughly. I found the descriptions of the women to be very effective.

"With You As My Anchor" (view spoiler)[The freckles really grossed me out. (hide spoiler)]

Hi everyone !
Sometimes we’re cruel - I did like the story the concept is very unique but I did enjoy the story

Do as you’re told - okay now this one I was lost and unfortunately I didn’t understand the ending or even the story in general

Bill wrote: "After my disappointment with "The Flame that Takes" (hey, the author is setting very high standards), the following story and "Exactly As We Are Meant to Be" are returns to form. Some recurring the..."

Yes, (view spoiler)[I think Ella had that bad example with her aunt (I believe?) who died during the process. So she decided to make this quiet arrangement with Rose as a way to stay alive. (hide spoiler)] At least that´s how I read that story.

When your ghost comes in

I agree with Vavita, this is a fantastic story. Poor Tommy or poor Beau? That is a good question, Vavita. (view spoiler)[I would say: poor both of them. Also I feel sorry for the ghosts who have to count on the people they live in to bring them to their beloved ones. (hide spoiler)] It´s a horrible concept for everyone, in my opinion.

Bill wrote: ". I was also blindsided by the ending"

(view spoiler)[It was the only way to stay alive. She knew what had happened to her aunt. She saw that Rose was anyway a part of her so maybe it was not so hard? She was living somehow then 2 lives, as her and as Rose... (hide spoiler)]

I keep thinking about When your ghost comes in

Do you think the author was trying to give a deeper message with this story? (view spoiler)[Maybe the symbiosis with the ghost is way to show emotional dependency? How some people cannot fully live their live if they are too dependent to others? (hide spoiler)]

Charlene (Char) wrote: "Hi everyone !
Sometimes we’re cruel - I did like the story the concept is very unique but I did enjoy the story

Do as you’re told - okay now this one I was lost and unfortunately I didn’t underst..."

In the link which Netanella posted in the beginning they talk about that story. Maybe it would be helpful for you to listen to it?

I finished the collection and I will rate it with 5 Stars.

The last story almost felt like I would read a novella. The characters were so well fleshed out and it was very thrilling.

I am looking forward to read more short fiction written by J.A.W. McCarthy.

Vavita wrote: "I keep thinking about When your ghost comes in

Do you think the author was trying to give a deeper message with this story? [spoilers removed]"

Yes, maybe. (view spoiler)[It´s actually kind of scary that the only purpose in the ghost-existence seems to be to find their husbands/wifes...Hopefully afterlife will not be like that...lol (hide spoiler)]

I also thought that there was a bit too much (view spoiler)[of the home invasion or maybe just Bud (hide spoiler)] in "Black Doves." (view spoiler)[He was needed for the ending, but I still would have been okay if that character hadn't been there at all. (hide spoiler)]

"Those Who Made Us" (view spoiler)[I liked how much detail went into describing the process of putting the bodies together. I think it's an interesting way of touching on themes of disability. (hide spoiler)]

I wasn't that into "The Flames That Take." I do like that it has more dialogue than the other stories. I think the author writes really good dialogue between friends.