Beyond Reality discussion

What SF/F books would you include in a class about speculative fiction literature? What do you consider the "classics" of the genre?

That's a very broad question(s).

First off, a serious question of my own. What is a classic? A broad definition (not book specific) is "meets some common high standards for quality, appeal, longevity, and influence".

I find it quite fascinating that quality is only one of the items listed. And a book doesn't have to be of quality to necessarily have a lot of influence, appeal, and longevity.

As for the class, I would start with early examples of the genres.

We'd have to start with Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, which is considered by many to be the first science fiction book. I think it would also be a good jumping point of discussing what SF actually is and how Frankenstein fits in with it.

Its difficult to do the same for Fantasy since fantasy has been around forever. Every fairy tale we tell our kids, every myth, its all Fantasy. Actually this could be the very subject of one of the lectures.

Moving forward, I would have to hit Tolkien and E. E. Doc Smith. Two very influential authors writing in the early 20th century. Tolkien's Middle Earth has been a massive influence on fantasy of all types that lasts to this very day. Smith is considered the father of space opera and while maybe not as well know as Tolkien, has influenced science fiction for nearly a century.

I'd then move forward to more of the golden age. Isaac Asimov, Alfred Bester, Ray Bradbury, Heinlein, Frederik Pohl, Philip K. Dick, and others. By today's standards some of their books can have some cringe worthy subjects and attitudes. But again, they can also be considered trailblazers for the many authors who came after them.

"Many scientists deeply involved in the exploration of the solar system (myself among them) were first turned in that direction by science fiction. And the fact that some of that science fiction was not of the highest quality is irrelevant. Ten year‐olds do not read the scientific literature." - Carl Sagan

And then on to the early women of SF and F. LeGuin,. McCaffery, James Triptree Jr., Andre Norton, Octavia Butler and others. I'd also like to use this to lead into a section about feminist SF.

And then another section on fantasy escaping medieval Europe. This would focus on some urban fantasy (though a lot of the early examples just really moved medieval European characters and situations into the modern world). Many, however, have truly created entirely new worlds and new societies. And we've branched out into entirely new worlds (broken Earth series comes to mind here).

Then I think I would dedicate an entire lecture to "what do Piers Anthony and J. K. Rowling have in common?"
The answer? They both taught generations of children to love to read. I have heard so many people say either the Harry Potter or Xanth books were what made them love to read. In fact Piers Anthony is still going on his Xanth series. And he still receives letters from his readers saying exactly that. Its part of what drives him to keep going. (And by husband gets every book the second its available because he's one of those kids.)

Regardless of what you think of the quality of those books, their influence and appeal has been immense.

Random wrote: "As for the class, I would start with early examples of the genres."

I’d take your class!

Yeah, I've not much to add.

Except, I'd say that quality does count a bit more. I wouldn't teach more than a short story or maybe homework about the sexist or stupid ones.

Chris wrote: "What SF/F books would you include in a class about speculative fiction literature? What do you consider the "classics" of the genre?"

Wow! I'd totally take this class as well! Or read the book. Have you ever considered writing it?

Cheryl wrote: "Yeah, I've not much to add.

Except, I'd say that quality does count a bit more. I wouldn't teach more than a short story or maybe homework about the sexist or stupid ones."

I can certainly understand that viewpoint. But, at the same time, teaching about these various authors and books doesn't equal admiration for them or acceptance of their view points.

It would be a perfect opportunity to discuss subjects like classism, racism, sexism, and similar. How does the author's viewpoint show up in their writing? What environment did they grow up in and live in? How these viewpoints may have evolved over the course of their lives and works.

For example, Charles Dickens was a champion during Victorian times in regards to social issues of class, wealth, and similar. He was also a racist, though, from what I understand, his racism was more a reflection of the times he lived.

Lovecraft, who is a massive influence, was not only racist, but it was a racism that was extreme even for the time he lived.

It would also be a chance to discuss the exceptions. Those who were trailblazers on evolving social attitudes and how their work differs from those of others. And also, this is the point I find fascinating, where they have their own unique failures. I'm spacing on the details here, but I remember hearing about some who lets say support marriage equality but don't support transgender, or similar. Just because someone may be progressive in one area, does not mean they are progressive in all areas.

Sadly I neither have the knowledge nor ability to put together or teach a class like this, but I think it would be a class I would love to take. :D

Fantastic list! I don't know that I have much to add, but I'd want to make sure that the more contemporary volumes incorporate lots of diversity. I'd especially recommend How Long 'til Black Future Month? by N.K. Jemisin as an anthology of short stories that really explores all of the different little corners of the genre.

Or, what about a look at children's/middle grade classics? Thinking A Wrinkle in Time, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Chronicles of Prydain, etc.

Shel wrote: "Fantastic list! I don't know that I have much to add, but I'd want to make sure that the more contemporary volumes incorporate lots of diversity. I'd especially recommend [book:How Long 'til Black ..."

There was so much I left out and I'm sure even more I did not think of or do not even know.

I do know there are academics out there who entire specialty is Science Fiction. There is just so much!

Thank goodness the influence of some of the older stuff is waning.

I think the Wayfarers books by Becky Chambers are proving influential now. I hope that continues as I think they're worthy of being analysed and reread.

Cheryl wrote: "I think the Wayfarers books by Becky Chambers are proving influential now. I hope that continues as I think they're worthy of bei..."

Perfect timing on this comment. I was looking for an audiobook to start and your comment reminded me that I picked up the entire Wayfarers series in audio over the holidays.

Jo Walton's award-winning novel Among Others references many SFF genre books. Here's a list of the mentions: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

All classics? Maybe not ... but quite a few have been pretty influential.

Chris wrote: "Jo Walton's award-winning novel Among Others references many SFF genre books. Here's a list of the mentions: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1......"

Interesting list. I've not yet read Walton's book. I don't understand how almost 200 books can get mentioned in a novel without turning it into a bibliography. But anyway.

My question actually is: does Walton or do her characters actually endorse all these titles? Or are some, I dunno, scorned or dissed or whatever?

Not really in response to anyone but I've been thinking.

If quality is a must for something to be considered a classic, what is the definition of a high quality book?

Its not an easy question to answer, at least for myself. I know people who absolutely refuse to believe a book can be considered a classic unless its at least 200 years old and who refuse to admit "quality:" to anything that wasn't at least nominated for a Nobel Prize in Literature.

Some would consider quality something that engages the reader. Some would require some philosophical statement be made or a "lesson" to be learned. Some would require unique ideas. Some would go on about prose and dialog.

I'm curious on what others here think. I'm not really sure what my own definition might be.

Cheryl wrote: "Interesting list. I've not yet read Walton's book. I don't understand how almost 200 books can get mentioned in a novel without turning it into a bibliography. But anyway.

My question actually is: does Walton or do her characters actually endorse all these titles? Or are some, I dunno, scorned or dissed or whatever?"

It's been many years since I read the book, but I think they're mostly presented positively. The character is pretty much who any of us would have been in the days before the Internet, and she's finally found a group of fellow misfits to talk about books with.

Random wrote: "I'm curious on what others here think. I'm not really sure what my own definition might be."

Hmmm. It's an interesting question. I think the quality in a book that makes it a classic is that it transcends its setting (time and/or place) in some way. It doesn't have to be 200 years old at all; for every Jane Austen there must have been a plethora of other authors publishing at that time that no one is reading anymore. A classic will have some relevance/impact/food for thought for anyone reading it, regardless of when or where they are.

I think quality may help a book become a classic, but one doesn’t necessarily lead to the other.

Classics, to me, have an enduring quality, or are seminal. They may be groundbreaking in some way but not just a flash in the pan.

Quality, to me, means well-written, with an engaging plot and interesting characters. Maybe it explores some theme or underlying idea. It’s more than simply entertaining popcorn for the brain (which I also enjoy).