Works of Thomas Hardy discussion

Well, World, you have kept faith with me,
Kept faith with me;
Upon the whole you have proved to be
Much as you said you were.
Since as a child I used to lie
Upon the leaze and watch the sky,
Never, I own, expected I
That life would all be fair.

'Twas then you said, and since have said,
Times since have said,
In that mysterious voice you shed
From clouds and hills around:
"Many have loved me desperately,
Many with smooth serenity,
While some have shown contempt of me
Till they dropped underground.

"I do not promise overmuch,
Child; overmuch;
Just neutral-tinted haps and such,"
You said to minds like mine.
Wise warning for your credit's sake!
Which I for one failed not to take,
And hence could stem such strain and ache
As each year might assign.

This is one of the last poems that Hardy wrote and published. It is part of his last book, Winter Words, published in 1928.

I would like to suggest that after reading it, take a look at another poem we discussed — Hap.

Hap is the youthful Hardy; one of his earliest poems. He Never Expected Much is one of his last. They seem to overlap thematically, but you seem to absorb which one came first. He Never Expected Much has the weary wisdom of the years, while Hap had the steely forbearance of youth.

Another poem I don't remember ... and how revealing it is of Thomas Hardy's jaded attitude to life just before he died. Thank you for this choice, John.

I think that's an excellent idea, to compare it with the earlier "Hap". I have to say I much prefer that one!

(Remember everyone, all the threads for our poems are linked in this post LINK HERE.)

One question I have: what is the meaning of “neutral-tinted haps and such?”

The eminent literary critic Harold Bloom once wrote that neutral tinted haps are the essence of Hardy’s poetry. But he never explained why.

John wrote: "One question I have: what is the meaning of “neutral-tinted haps and such."

I just assumed it meant "the endless round", John. So life is full of happenstance and trivia - i.e. we experience very little that is vibrant and memorable - only dull neutral tones.

I've no idea what Harold Bloom meant, but would be interested in other thoughts!

Bionic Jean wrote: "John wrote: "One question I have: what is the meaning of “neutral-tinted haps and such."

I just assumed it meant "the endless round", John. So life is full of happenstance and trivia - i.e. we exp..."

Thanks Jean. I sometimes think that Bloom keyed in on the word neutral and that Hardy was a neutral bystander to the whims of nature. But I surmise.

John wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Hardy was a neutral bystander to the whims of nature. But I surmise ..."

Yes I can see that interpretation too! I suspect it might depend how much you think Thomas Hardy is presenting himself, as an individual, and how much as "the author".

There is a vast contrast between the attitudes of the narrator of the two poems. Hap is a younger man's lamentation. Although not exactly optimistic, in He Never Expected Much, Hardy is suggesting that life did, after all, play fair. Instead of becoming more jaded, an acceptance evolved as he realised that life never did promise overmuch. What adds to this poem's appeal is the rhythm and alliteration in lines like these: 'Twas then you said, and since have said, / Times since have said, / In that mysterious voice you shed, which gives it a songlike quality. An excellent poem, one of my favourites so far.

Peter Widdowson, in Thomas Hardy: Selected Poetry And Non Fictional Prose, defines 'neutral-tinted haps and such' as "ordinary, quotidian chance events and happenings."

Apparently, Hardy had noted the phrase ‘heavy hap’ in his copy of The Faerie Queen III. It would be interesting to know if this was his first exposure to the word and how old he was when it was noted. I've heard that Hardy would store scenes, experiences (words?), then use them in his work later on. The dictionary now classifies the word 'hap' as 'archaic'. I wonder if it was in common usage in Hardy's time.

Jane wrote: "Peter Widdowson, in Thomas Hardy: Selected Poetry And Non Fictional Prose, defines 'neutral-tinted haps and such' as "ordinary, quotidian chance events and happenings...."

That’s a good find, Jane. Thanks. That would seem to define it. And Harold Bloom used the word “supremely” to say how well Hardy described in the body of his work the neutral-tinted haps. In the everyday, Hardy reigned supreme.

Oh, how poignant. I've just discovered this was first published in The Daily Telegraph on 19 March 1928. This means it was published posthumously, two months after Hardy's death. Indeed, Winter Words in Various Moods and Metres is a posthumous collection.

The full (or alternative?) title is:

He Never Expected Much
[or]
A consideration
[A reflection] On My Eighty-Sixth Birthday

Jane wrote: "Oh, how poignant. I've just discovered this was first published in The Daily Telegraph on 19 March 1928. This means it was published posthumously, two months after Hardy's death. Indeed, [book:Wint..."

Although favorites are sometimes a difficult choice, I would say that Winter Words is my favorite of his books.

John wrote: "In the everyday, Hardy reigned supreme."

He has certainly been reigning supreme in my own everyday, recently.

If I had to describe the tone of the poem in one word, I would choose "stoic." It's the thoughts of a man at the end of his life. He seems to think that if you don't expect much out of life, you won't be disappointed. He's addressing the World, and the World is replying:

"I do not promise overmuch,
Child; overmuch;
Just neutral-tinted haps and such,"

Considering that Hardy had to deal with criticism of his last novels, Emma's death, and the usual aches and pains of growing old at the age of 86, it's not surprising that he might be feeling somber. He seems to be saying that his realistic attitude - thinking that much in life happens by chance - made him strong enough to weather the difficult times.

The only thing that did not work for me in this poem is the repetition of the first line in the first stanza. Ordinarily I would think something else would work there. Another thought perhaps? I feel the words repeated lost impact. The first line, with its Well, World… seems enough.

Never, I own, expected I
That life would all be fair.

I am new to this site. But Hardy's words in the first stanza surprised me. I expected life to be fair when I was young, when I was middle aged and still, in elderly life (that is what the nurse said I was) to be fair. I think this is the fault of my Christian parents - someway, I grew up thinking that eventually fairness would exist. And when I see a troublemaker (like those who invaded the Capitol on January 6) or a person who has tricked people out of their savings, etc. - when I see those people get some punishment, I feel that life is fair. I grew up in the very racist South USA, but I have learned that the awful hate based on race is on those people. I speak out against it- because I am sometimes dumb, I chose a profession that was male dominated, never realizing what I was doing. My entire life has been one of nasty words and deeds toward women and lack of respect for women or people whose skin was not lily white. So I often spoke out against such actions, words and beliefs. Sometimes, it helped -- well, I know I changed lives, even saved lives because the people told me that I did. Enough of my life - I disagree with Hardy here. I always expected life to be fair, equality to exist. I know that life is not fair but I always hope and expect it to be fair. I can love his novels and still disagree on this statement. Wonder if he really meant it? peace, janz

John wrote: "The only thing that did not work for me in this poem is the repetition of the first line in the first stanza. Ordinarily I would think something else would work there. Another thought perhaps? I fe..."

I see what you are observing, John. Perhaps if he had substituted some other words for "kept faith" in the second line, but kept the repetition of "with me," it would match the first and second lines of the other two stanzas better.

Connie wrote: "John wrote: "The only thing that did not work for me in this poem is the repetition of the first line in the first stanza. Ordinarily I would think something else would work there. Another thought ..."

It is interesting, Connie, because for most of my career I was a speechwriter. Speechwriting was the one constant. And several times in speeches for my various bosses I tried a repetition of a line for emphasis. And it just never worked; it fell flat. I was somewhat reminded of my old efforts.

John, I've noticed that people speaking with passion for an important cause sometimes use a lot of repetition, but change it up just a little bit with each phrase. Churchill's "We shall fight on the beaches . . . " speech, and Martin Luther King's "I Had a Dream" speech come to mind.

You must have had an interesting career!

I once heard Jesse Jackson, running for President, speak at a large outside rally at Wayne State University, in Detroit. Like Martin Luter King, Jr. he repeated himself. "I am somebody." Then urged the audience of thousands to shout "I am somebody" - it was amazing and went on for several minutes. First Jackson, then audience. I had cold chills. Almost have them now. I think it takes charisma. Thanks for sharing. I think we repeat ourselves when it is really important - or at least I do. I am afraid my relatives did not get it the first time. Thanks for sharing. peace, janz

Peacejanz wrote: "Wonder if he really meant it?"

I believe so. Hardy wrote the other poem mentioned (Hap) when he was 26 years old (although it wasn't published until he was 58). This poem was written when he was 86 and there's a (not uncommon) age related shift in perspective. I think there is a difference between fairness and justice. Justice doesn't make what happened to a victim of crime, fair. What Hardy is saying in the last four lines of this week's poem is that the perspective of not expecting life to be all fair has somewhat protected his emotions during times of hardship.

Hardy lived for over 15 years after Emma's death. Comparing the two poems, I'm wondering what, if any, part did Emma's death play in Hardy's shifting perspective. Did the initial outpouring of grief that he focused into Poems of 1912-13 have some sort of cathartic effect, whereby he was better able to enjoy his remaining life with Florence? I imagine he must have constantly felt the weight of having both women in his life; under the same roof, no less.

Peacejanz wrote: "I once heard Jesse Jackson, running for President, speak at a large outside rally at Wayne State University, in Detroit. Like Martin Luter King, Jr. he repeated himself. "I am somebody." Then urged..."

Connie wrote: "John, I've noticed that people speaking with passion for an important cause sometimes use a lot of repetition, but change it up just a little bit with each phrase. Churchill's "We shall fight on th..."

I agree with both of you and enjoyed the examples you cited. When I look back, one of my bosses had a very flat delivery in general, and perhaps my memory of the repetition was not a good one.

I find in the poem that the repetition of the line did not resonate with me as a reader.

Jane wrote: "Hardy lived for over 15 years after Emma's death. Comparing the two poems, I'm wondering what, if any, part did Emma's death play in Hardy's shifting perspective. Did the initial outpouring of grie..."

I remember the esteemed literary critic Michael Schmidt stating that he thought Florence must have been a very patient person because of all the poems clearly about Emma.

For those interested, Schmidt’s book Lives of the Poets is the best work on poets and poetry that I have ever read.

John wrote: "For those interested, Schmidt’s book Lives of the Poets is the best work on poets and poetry that I have ever read."

Thanks. What an incredibly comprehensive work!

That period of Hardy's grief must have been hard for Florence to bear. Perhaps she looked on it as the 'last leg' of the Thomas-Emma journey.

John, how do you fare with the beginning of The Voice?

Jane wrote: "John wrote: "For those interested, Schmidt’s book Lives of the Poets is the best work on poets and poetry that I have ever read."

Thanks. What an incredibly comprehensive work!

That period of Ha..."

Jane, I seem to have the same issue with The Voice. For some reason, and maybe it is just me, I am not fond of the repetition and find that it does not work.

Jane wrote: "John, how do you fare with the beginning of The Voice?..."

Maybe either you or John could lead "The Voice" for us some time?

Here's a great word for you (which I'm sure John knows!)

epizeuxis

In rhetoric, epizeuxis is the repetition of a word or phrase in immediate succession, typically within the same sentence, for vehemence or emphasis. It's difficult to use when writing, and can feel odd, as several have said, but also it can be very effective Think of the adverts which you can't get out of your mind, for instance. They will be different from different countries but all of us will know some oft-repeated phrases! A large part of the technique of advertising is based on this.

In speeches, epizeuxis can be used to create an emotional appeal, thereby inspiring and motivating the audience. However, wiki says epizeuxis can also be used for comic effect. Somehow I don't see Thomas Hardy doing that ...

Bionic Jean wrote: "Jane wrote: "John, how do you fare with the beginning of The Voice?..."

Maybe either you or John could lead "The Voice" for us some time?

Here's a great word for you (which I'm sure John knows!)..."

Jean, I do think for speech making it can be effective for the right speaker. I think for poetry, though, it does something to the flow that seems contrary to my reading.

That's very perceptive John. Yes, it can seem the wrong technique.

I hardly dare say, but I found the writing of this one more "clunky" overall than I'm used to with Thomas Hardy. This middle line for instance:

"Wise warning for your credit's sake!
Which I for one failed not to take,
And hence could stem such strain and ache"

has such a convoluted word order - merely so that it will rhyme with the other two! When I read the poem aloud, I stumbled over that line. So it's not one of his best poems, in my opinion.

However, I appreciate its message, and would like to hear a young person's view of it.

As I remember I never expected the world to be "fair", when I was young, but we do see entitled youngsters, who it is said "think the world owes them a living". Perhaps they were around in Thomas Hardy's day too.

I do remember the feeling of being immortal, and the growing wisdom as to how blinkered we are when young.

Amen -- blinkered when we are young - and sometimes when we are old - just a different kind of blinkered. peace, janz

p.s. blinkered is not a word often used in the US - but it is a great word and I love that you used it. jz

The title of this poem keeps reminding me of Anthony Trollope!

The difference is that Thomas Hardy seems to be talking about himself.

Ah, yes, blinkered is a lovely word. In my life’s experiences as an older person now, I find blinkered to be spread evenly across the age demographic.

Bionic Jean wrote: "The title of this poem keep reminding me of Anthony Trollope!"

Haha, yes!!!

The entitled youngsters might have been limited to the wealthy in Hardy's time. Today, not so much.

John wrote: "I do think for speech making it can be effective for the right speaker. I think for poetry, though, it does something to the flow that seems contrary to my reading."

I do think your profession plays a part in how you read poetry, John. If only because we all come to poetry, indeed, to anything, tinted with our experiences. I don't mind the repetition in this one, though I think it could work equally well with the second line changed up a bit, like Connie mentioned. In The Voice I particularly like how it begins. I immediately took to them both and they seem to flow well for me. The number of Hardy poems I've been exposed to is but a drop in the ocean of his vast poetical works, many more may still make my favourites. That's why I'm so excited!

Bionic Jean wrote: "In rhetoric, epizeuxis is the repetition of a word or phrase in immediate succession, typically within the same sentence, for vehemence or emphasis."

Epizeuxis, repetition that appeals or invokes the reader’s or listener’s emotions. That's very interesting. I have been listening to poetry readings of some of the poems I'm familiar with. I actually have issues with too much repetition (ASD and misophonia). My husband has to mute advertisements and any repetitive music gets turned off. I'm hoping Hardy will prove to have remained moderate in his usage!

I quite liked the repetition. It was striking, but also soothing, like a lullabye. And I think that fits the tone of the poem. The poet has made his peace with the world, and as he says in the last lines he has weathered the "neutral" ups and downs. As other wise people have said, expectation is the cause of most anger and regret. To not have expectations is to not be disappointed in life.