Christian Readers discussion

Revelation 22:18 - For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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Many bible versions have gone the way of the devil, and added to or taken away from the pure words of God. This is evil, it is sin, and it is leading people away from the Truth.
As you see, adding to or taking away from the words of the prophecy of this book is extremely serious to your eternal soul. Repent!

Proverbs Chapter 30
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Do you know what GOD says about all liars? All of them? This is what He will do to all liars~ [8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Are you using a bible that has lies, omissions, and additions~ ?
Do you tell lies?

[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Using bibles that are corrupted obscures your ability to understand and to follow Jesus Christ, King of kings, and Lord of lords.

Nancy wrote: "As you see, adding to or taking away from the words of the prophecy of this book is extremely serious to your eternal soul. Repent!"

Hi Nancy, you seem keen to point out what you see a things in other people's eyes, so I hope you will welcome me pointing out what I see as the error in your interpretation of Revelation 22:18, 19.

First of all the original inspired words of God were written in Greek and Hebrew. The English translation you prefer is not inspired or "pure" any more or less than other translations. If you have a Biblical explanation as to why that is not the case, I would be interested to see it.

I take the view that meaning matters more than words, for the simple reason that the originally inspired Greek words are useless to a person, unless they understand Greek. It is in the very nature of language that it is common for there to be no single word for single word translation that has exactly the same meaning in both languages. Therefore translators have to make judgements as to how best to express the original meaning. Some of those judgements are undoubtedly better than others, but preferring one translation over another is largely a matter of taste and tradition.

Secondly, the originally inspired Greek words translated as "words" in v18 and 19, do not necessarily mean a spoken or written word, there are other Greek words for that. The Greek words used come from Logos (as used for Jesus as the Word of God), and mean "a word, being the expression of a thought". Therefore John is not necessarily talking about adding or removing individual words, but adding or removing the thoughts expressed by those words. It would appear that not adding to or subtracting from the meaning of the prophesy is what the Holy Spirit wanted to express through John.

I may be mistaken on any point, but I hope you will look into the original Greek for yourself, and point out the Biblical basis for any error you see on my part.

David wrote: "...I take the view that meaning matters more than words, for the simple reason that the originally inspired Greek words are useless to a person, unless they understand Greek...."

Completely wrong! Without those Greek words...there would be NO English translation!

Robert wrote: "Completely wrong! Without those Greek words...there would be NO English translation!...."

I completely agree Robert, the Greek words are vital. I am very thankful for those originally inspired Greek words, and the Bible translators who seek to faithfully translate the meaning of the Greek into modern English.

I see the words, whether Greek or English, as the vehicle that transports the meaning behind the words. Are not words the tool by which we communicate meaning?

I also agree that Greek words are vital. They help to provide the original intent of the writers.

David wrote: "I see the words, whether Greek or English, as the vehicle that transports the meaning behind the words. Are not words the tool by which we communicate meaning?..."

The original language words have been inspired and preserved by God. And thoughts are communicated by words.

However, the thoughts may or may not be accurately understood.

For example, the Bible speaks of the four corners of the earth. A thought from that notion would inaccurately portray the world as a four-sided square, or rectangle.

The words are not in error; God inspires them.

The thought is what can be problematic.

Also, if one reads the Bible often, one will attest that a passage read a year ago offered an accurate thought. Likewise, the same passage read today may add additional insights and ideas completely missed a year ago.

The importance of the inspired and preserved words that God Himself chose in writing Scripture cannot be over-emphasized.

How would you view that passage in relation to the Book Of Mormon?

Joseph wrote: "How would you view that passage in relation to the Book Of Mormon?"

The book of Mormon is fiction and it is not Scripture.

Robert wrote: "Also, if one reads the Bible often, one will attest that a passage read a year ago offered an accurate thought. Likewise, the same passage read today may add additional insights and ideas completely missed a year ago.."

That's a great point Robert, the word of God is indeed living and active when illuminated by the Holy Spirit.

I remember reading once that the kingdom of God works through words.

"For God, who said, ‘Let light shine out of darkness,’ made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:6 NIV)

Robert wrote: "Joseph wrote: "How would you view that passage in relation to the Book Of Mormon?"

The book of Mormon is fiction and it is not Scripture."
Amen. Sure is.

Robert says: The words are not in error; God inspires them.
The thought is what can be problematic.
(this message is more for David)
Exactly. Millions of fake Christians, who do not have the Holy Spirit in them to instruct them, are going off on tangents about what the bible says. The ONLY way 2 people can agree on the content of the bible verse, is if they both are born again, and thus have the Holy Spirit in them, AND....if they are not being carnally minded, which God says is death. A Christian can be dangerously lukewarm, (which God despises) and go around spreading lie after lie, using good manners and politeness, of course, (the devil can use all sorts of tricks) and he or she will end up with 2 problems: 1. The person they're leading astray will put blood on their hands 2. The liar will, if he does not truly repent, and STOP, end up sending himself to Hell.
The TRUE Word of God warns Christians, brethren, to be careful not to fall away.

There is so much New Age (occult, devilish) philosophy interjected into the other versions that they can't rightly be called the true Word of God. https://thestandard.org.uk/the-blog/i...

Don't use the NIV, either, here's why: https://www.chick.com/information/art...

I find this interesting, because KJV is only a translation, just as NIV, NASB, ESV, yes, some are better than others. But is the KJV the standard? Or simply a translation?

Olivia wrote: "I find this interesting, because KJV is only a translation, just as NIV, NASB, ESV, yes, some are better than others. But is the KJV the standard? Or simply a translation?"

The KJV is a good translation, but the preserved Word of God are the original language words from which all translations are translated.

No translation is superior to the manuscripts from which they are translated.

Nancy wrote: "David, I recognize your type. You have a plethora of information to enable you to "win" your argument. I'm not going to go around and around with you. Been there, done that, with others before you...."

Nancy I respect your position, I have no desire to win an argument. What prompted my reply to your post is that you seem to think that using Bible translations other than the KJV is a sin that needs repentance.

I see this as an error, but having pointed it out to you, I feel I have discharged my responsibility. Who am I to judge another man's servant. We will all give an account to the Lord on that day.

I hope we can agree that the most important thing is to obey God's word, whatever translation we use to understand it.

Nancy wrote: "Don't use the NIV, either, here's why: https://www.chick.com/information/art..."

I use the NIV a lot Nancy, so I feel I need to reply to this.

Can you give me an example of where the NIV gives a different understanding of the Gospel or a core Christian doctrine compared to the KJV?

Being that this is Goodreads, I'm going to suggest the book "The King James only Contraversy" by Dr James White.

James White is fluent in Hebrew and Greek, and has also done many impressive debates on textual variance.

Great suggestion Olivia. Thanks.

David wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Don't use the NIV, either, here's why: https://www.chick.com/information/art..."

I use the NIV a lot Nancy, so I feel I need to reply to this. ..."
I did, they're to be read about in the link I posted. I don't understand your question.
I suggest you read a book New Age Bible Versions, by Gail Riplinger. It will make a lot of sense to you, in so many ways.

David, you said: using Bible translations other than the KJV is a sin that needs repentance.
It is a sin, IF you know the other versions have omissions and lies in them. It's easy to find out. If you don't know, then now you can investigate for yourself, and then you'll have knowledge.
I'm thinking you have children, and when you brought them up, you told them to tell the truth, and to be obedient to you. If your child was disobedient, but didn't know the rules, you were lenient. If your child deliberately disobeyed you after he comprehended the truth of a matter, he was disciplined.
Since it's publication, the King James bible has been fought against. Are there any other books so hated and scoffed at, as the KJ bible? The reason the enemy wants to keep you out of the King James bible is he knows you're going to know the whole truth, and then the devil will have lost his struggle to get your soul into his army. And kingdom.

David wrote: Can you give me an example of where the NIV gives a different understanding of the Gospel or a core Christian doctrine compared to the KJV?
You want doctrinal errors in the NIV? Here ya go: Luke 9:56- Then he and his disciples went to another village.
That’s it! That’s all that you can read in the NIV. You won’t read the first part of the verse which is:[56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
I believe is a powerful and important message for all Christians. Jesus came to save us!! if you are just reading Luke 9:56 in the NIV, you won’t know that Yahshua the Messiah or Jesus Christ did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them!
Look at Matthew 18:11-What do you see? Nothing but a footnote – a footnote that says, “Some manuscripts include here the words of Luke 19:10.”
This footnote confirms that NIV is missing a verse and rightly so.
The KJ bible says:[11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Again, the statement you read in Matthew 18:11 is an important aspect of Christ’s ministry. He came to the world to save the lost!
However, this very word, this truth, vital truth, is denied to all NIV readers!
Let me give you another example of NIV’s deliberate shredding of God’s word. Read Matthew 9:13.
NIV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
The KJ bible says: [13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The NIV leaves out repentance, a key in being born again.
NIV denies Christ as the Creator-This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.
There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:
“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).
Ephesians 3:9- KJ bible- [9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!
NIV suggests that Joseph is the father of Christ-
Look into Luke 2:33 and compare NIV and KJV.
The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him (NIV).
[33] And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. (KJV).
Jesus does not have a human father. Replacing the name Joseph with “child’s father” directly goes against the teaching of the Bible that Christ was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18). If Christ has a human father, then the prophecy of the Messiah being born of a
virgin (Isaiah 7:14) has become a deception.
Let me give you a list of some of the verses that NIV deleted.

Matthew 17:21
Matthew 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
John 5:3–4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34

Who FAILED to give rest? Jesus or Joshua?

Hebrews 4:8 - For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Hebrews 4:8 - For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
[13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
[14] Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Nancy, you isolate verses to prove a point, but there are verses throughout scripture that convey the same message of repentance, Christ's creatorship, and His heavenly father.

NIV didn't "delete" passages, these are either omitted or included bases on the manuscript used for translation.

The name Jesus is derived from the Hebrew name Yeshua/Y'shua, which is based on the Semitic root y-š-ʕ (Hebrew: ישע), meaning "to deliver; to rescue."
Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon

Robert- I know someone who is so obsessed with whether or not Jesus is the real name of the Son of God, that he has doubt about any bible being trustworthy. What a tangled mess the devil weaves.

Nancy wrote: "[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbel..."

So, who failed to give rest? Jesus or Joshua?

Olivia wrote: "Being that this is Goodreads, I'm going to suggest the book "The King James only Contraversy" by Dr James White.

James White is fluent in Hebrew and Greek, and has also done many impressive debate..."

From reading reviews, he ends up convincing readers that any old bible will do. Sorry, but I don't think this is a good recommendation. Read this about that book:https://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/whit...

Excerpted from the article: If anyone would read his book several times through, a very definite set of problems surfaces over and over again. These problems caused me to question Mr. White's honesty, integrity and character. These problems are listed below.

The author has a double standard when dealing with groups or individuals.

The author misrepresents people.

The author frequently does not give full/objective evidence when defending his position or attacking his opponents.

4. The author's assumptions are based on scholarship that is humanistic.

The author has no proof for many of the statements he makes.

The author has no tangible final authority.

7. The author has little biblical or scriptural foundation for his beliefs.

Nancy, respectfully, you are completely mistaken about James White. I'd encourage you to look into him. He has done hundreds of debates. A few on KJV only heres two;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PHR8wJA...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk7RWSA...

It's best to come to your own conclusions based on your own research rather than parroting others opinions.

If you knew anything about him or his ministry you would see that your point #7 is just completely inaccurate. Absolutely every one of his arguments made is backed up with scripture, either in his KJV only debate, abortion, homosexuality, anything, he backs with God's word.

Nancy wrote: "Robert- I know someone who is so obsessed with whether or not Jesus is the real name of the Son of God, that he has doubt about any bible being trustworthy. What a tangled mess the devil weaves..."

My response: Jesus and Joshua are the same word in the Greek and Hebrew.

KJV says Jesus FAILED
Other translations say that Joshua FAILED

Which translation is correct?

Nancy wrote: "Let me give you another example of NIV’s deliberate shredding of God’s word. Read Matthew 9:13.
NIV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
The KJ bible says: [13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The NIV leaves out repentance, a key in being born again."

Nancy, the NIV does not include repentance in Matthew 9:13 because the word "repentance" is not there in the originally inspired Greek text. Please check this out for yourself.
Therefore which do you think is the best translation of Matthew 9:13 - the NIV which does not add words to the Greek, or the KJV which does add words to the original?

That's fine, all of you. Have a good life.

Nancy wrote: "That's fine, all of you. Have a good life."

I'm just curious. it is a simple question.

Which is the correct English translation of the Greek?

Jesus FAILED
or
Joshua FAILED

...to give REST?

Nancy wrote: "That's fine, all of you. Have a good life."

Nancy, may the Spirit of truth guide you, and all of us, into all truth.

Thanks be to God for Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour; whose name is above every name.