Victorians! discussion

Our third week reading Felix Holt and we see Harold Transome’s election campaign progressing; Transome meeting Esther and Felix—the latter not on the most pleasant note or course, and some of the secrets of Esther’s father revealed, though Jermyn seems to be plotting to use this against Transome, some of whose family secrets are also revealed.

Week Summary
Mr Lyon decides to make a rather interesting use of Philip Debarry’s polite offer in his letter of thanks, by inviting Augustus Debarry to a debate on the Church and reformation. One wonders how this will be received.
Meanwhile the election campaign is on, and as Sabagrey had rightly guessed last week, the canvassing among those (like the miners at Sproxton) who didn’t have the vote is to get some loud (and likely violent) support behind particular candidates. Transome (via Jermyn) approaches Mr Lyon seeking to use his influence amongst his congregation, but instead is caught in an unwelcome discussion on the merits of the ballot. From this he is ‘rescued’ though only briefly, by Felix’s arrival. Felix is of course there to confront him over events in Sproxton, and while Transome may or may not agree with Johnson’s methods otherwise, now he must disapprove and openly check him. Jermyn however, tries support Johnson’s approach, arguing that it would be better they support the Radical candidate than others who will have no qualms using similar methods. Matters seem to settle for the moment, but Felix and Transome’s relationship hasn’t started on the best note.

Transome also goes on to make his first speech, which is fairly well received after an introduction by his uncle trying to bridge differences between his Tory background and Harold’s new Radical persuasions. Many of the locals are persuaded that Harold cannot have become radical and will likely be back to the old ways once the election is won.

The speech is also attended by Esther, partly as she wishes to act on Felix’s advice ‘showing’ him that she has more substance than he believes. But it would also seem that the handsome Harold Transome has taken some interest in Esther and she in him. Jermyn’s intervention means that Esther’s plan to meet Felix is interrupted and through this, she is also seen by Christian, or as is now confirmed, the person pretending to be Christian.

Mr Lyon has confided his secret to Jermyn and now possessed of Esther’s secret, he plans to use it against the Transomes whom he feels have used him ill (yet, he has done rather well for himself at their expense). We learn that it was at the family’s bidding that Maurice Christian Bycliffe was thrown into prison. And by exchanged identities with Henry Scaddon (now masquerading as Bycliffe), he managed to return to England where he died. More details are yet to emerge but the matter is at the moment rather in Jermyn’s hands.

How do matters proceed next?

Electioneering
In times when there was no universal suffrage, campaigning seemed to have both similarities and differences with the present days, similarities in the use of false promises and bribery, but differences (to some extent) in what use was to be made of the people being campaigned amongst for even without actual votes, the support and violence were powerful weapons.

Meanwhile, people’s opinions amongst the three persuasions seem interesting as well, many in favour of the fixed state of things—Tories in power and Whigs in the opposition, and no room it would seem for the radicals. More than present inclinations, background is also making up for feelings, with no outright opposition to Harold, even if the Debarrys have expressed their disapproval.

Romance/A triangle?
From events this week, we can see a triangle of sorts in the romantic thread of the story, with Transome taking notice of the beautiful and refined Esther, and the latter too, at least impressed by him. But Esther still also finds herself moved by Felix’s opinions, wanting to live up to his expectations even if she tries to dismiss this.

Secrets
Secrets it would seem are a continuing theme as well; Mr Lyon entrusts his to Jermyn, who gets to the bottom of matters sooner than we think (and it turns out that he was involved in the matters that form its background), and is preparing to use it to his own advantage. We discover the truth of Christian, but also of how Jermyn and the Transomes were involved in the matter of Esther’s father.

The Church/Religion
While not as such a central theme except in its connection to the politics of it, matters of religion are very much a significant background in the story with three churchmen in our story, Mr Lyon, Revd Dubarry and Mr Lingon. While the latter two appear to take their vocations as just that, for My Lyon it is far more serious and a true calling from which he was briefly distracted on his meeting with Anette. Each is also being involved in the campaign on behalf of one or the other candidates, and of course besides religion and politics, we also have Mr Lyon attempting to draw Dubarry into a debate on religion (and indeed Harold Transome on politics).

Reading chapter 15:
Mr. Lyon's motivation to propose a public debate with Rev.d Debarry is quite complex, and connected to the revelations about Esther, which remind him of his past. One part of it is that he seeks escape from his 'earthly' troubles in his favourite realm of oratory. Another is the drive to repent:

Once in his life he had been blinded, defeated, hurried along by rebellious impulse; he had gone astray after his own desires, and had let the fire die out on the altar; and as the true penitent, hating his self-besotted error, asks from all coming life duty instead of joy, and service instead of ease,

It sounds strange to me - to us modern-day readers? - that he considered his falling in love with a woman such a terrible ‘sin’ and fall from grace. - I mean, he is no Catholic priest vowed to celibacy, so his ‘sin’ exists only in his own consciousness. Yet it demands from him lifelong penitence.

The remembrance that in his time of wandering he had wilfully remained in ignorance of facts which he might have enquired after, deepened the impression that it was now an imperative duty to seek the fullest attainable knowledge.

This is to me a strange contradiction in his character: he married Annette (could marry her!) without knowing for certain that her husband was dead? And did not inquire? … The possibility that her husband turns up now, alive, does not awake in Mr. Lyon the spectre of possible bigamy - which should shock him, I suppose?

My favourite quote from this chapter is this one - a masterpiece in characterization:

There was nothing positive to be said against the Rev. Augustus Debarry; his life could not be pronounced blameworthy except for its negatives.

As anticipated, in these chapters Eliot develops her characters and begins to reveal the past ties that bind them together. Harold reveals himself as a typical politician who is uncomfortable with hard questions and very comfortable with equivocating when confronted by Felix. Germyn and Scaddon reveal themselves as unprincipled sneaks with completely selfish motives of revenge and financial gain. Esther’s personality becomes more defined and mature.

I must admit that I judged Felix a little too harshly. He is an idealist who has high ideals but is flawed by a judgmental nature. However, as Sabagrey pointed out in speaking of her acquaintance, he can also be very appealing. He is gentle with his mother and with the child Job. He is in love with Esther and also reveals a gentle side with her. I think he needs maturing and maybe a jolt to his pride to become a better man. I would be enraged if a man told me he wanted me to change, as Felix did to Esther, but perhaps that was more acceptable by 19th century standards.

Nancy wrote: "I think he needs maturing and maybe a jolt to his pride to become a better man.."

Eliot lets both protagonists - Esther and Felix - start out from somewhat extreme positions: we have talked about Felix - but Esther too is terribly snobbish, even with regard to her own father. They start out from opposite points and have a long road to go: I wonder whether Eliot makes them both travel over the same distance.

Reading chapter 16:

She disentangled her foot from her netting and wound it up.
Esther’s Netting: I looked up netting out of my general interest in crafts. Finally I found a mention of the "stirrup" in Mrs. Beeton's Book of Needlework (1870):

A stirrup to slip over the foot to which the foundation is attached is required by those who do not use a netting cushion, placed before them on the table and heavily weighted; to this the foundation is fastened. ... The stirrup is made of a loop of ribbon, to which the foundation is tied. Some ladies work a pretty stirrup of the exact shape of a horseman's stirrup; a loop of ribbon is passed through this, and the foundation fixed as before.

So the foot is used to maintain the tension of the piece. We are never told WHAT kind of net Esther is making. It is of silk, so obviously nothing ‘useful’, but rather decorative. I get the impression that she mostly does it to show off her feet and hands.

Esther felt a pleasure quite new to her as she saw his finely-embrowned face and full bright eyes turned toward her with an air of deference by which gallantry must commend itself to a refined woman who is not absolutely free from vanity.
...
Esther spoke with her usual pretty fluency, but she had no sooner uttered the words than she thought how angry they would have made Felix.

A handsome young gentleman, who appreciates her appearance and knows how to be gallant, is just what Esther has been dreaming of, and she can display her wit to full benefit. But … ‘there’s a worm inside’ is a saying we have in German for a state of affairs which looks good on the outside - like a beautiful apple - but is slowly spoiled from the inside out.

‘the ballot would be pernicious, and that if it were not pernicious, it would still be futile. I will show, first, that it would be futile as a preservative from bribery and illegitimate influence; and, secondly, that it would be in the worst kind pernicious, as shutting the door against those influences whereby the soul of a man and the character of a citizen are duly educated for their great functions.’

Mr. Lyon is against the ballot, i.e. secret voting - it was not on the agenda in 1832, I gather, but of course he is able and more than ready to deliver a well-formed speech on it. The arguments against secret voting seem a little strange to us - I wonder whether Eliot shared them? The secret ballot was introduced in the UK only in 1872 (6 years after publication of the novel)

Lady Clementina wrote: "...We discover the truth of Christian, but also of how Jermyn and the Transomes were involved in the matter of Esther’s father..."

I found the whole story surrounding Esther's actual father a bit confusing. First, as I presumed it was the Christian Bycliffe poseur, who is actually Henry Scaddon, his story and Jermyn's statements indicating that it was the currently dead real Christian Bycliffe surprised me. Presumably, the phony Christian's possible recognition of Esther was based only on his knowing Esther's mother for about three months in Vesoul.
The issues that Jermyn either discussed or thought about concerning the Transome family, Esther's mother, the real Christian and the Transome estate were far from answered for me. More questions were raised than answered, which is appropriate at this point in the story.
I presume I'll get more clarity as the story digs deeper into the Transome family estate issues, the real Christian Bycliffe and Esther's rights. A final mystery brought up is Jermyn's 30-years-ago relations with the "tall, white-wrapped figure"
Plenty of mysteries and details to unravel, along with the Esther/Harold/Felix triangle to sort out, and then political issues for my historical education. For me, even with the murkiness clouding my brain, I am finding enjoyment in the various storylines.

sabagrey wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I think he needs maturing and maybe a jolt to his pride to become a better man.."

Eliot lets both protagonists - Esther and Felix - start out from somewhat extreme positions: we have..."

I think both Esther and Felix are young innocents, behaving more or less as would be expected from their very limited experiences of life.

Esther’s French upbringing has led her to value the superficial. Her interest in Harold Transome comes purely from her own vanity around the way she looks that she has cultivated. She is so pleased that someone is finally looking at her attractiveness.

Felix however, has had an austere upbringing but has been well educated enough to realise both the unfairness in society and the skewed emphasis towards materialism. His boldness in stating his beliefs is pure youthful exuberance.

Isn’t the way he speaks to Esther actually giving her the jolt to her pride that she needs to be a better person? As for Felix he is too naive at his stage in life to realise the pitfalls in his tactless and abrasive manner, both towards Esther and his political adversaries.

Harold’s interest in Esther, like all women, seems as flimsy as the netting that was on Esther’s knee, as this quote indicates.

’ Harold Transome regarded women as slight things, but he was fond of slight things in the intervals of business; and he held it among the chief arts of life to keep these pleasant diversions within such bounds that they should never interfere with the course of his serious ambition.’

The discovery that Esther’s dead father had a claim on the Transome estate creates an interesting relationship between Harold and Esther, with Jermyn holding the key to its disclosure.

As each I read each section of the book, my distaste of the past iniquities of both Jermyn and Mrs. Transome hardens.

’ For a moment he (Jermyn) was fully back in those distant years when he and another bright-eyed person had seen no reason why they should not indulge their passion and their vanity, and determine for themselves how their lives should be made delightful in spite of unalterable external conditions. The reasons had been unfolding themselves gradually ever since through all the years.’

sabagrey wrote: "Reading chapter 15:
Mr. Lyon's motivation to propose a public debate with Rev.d Debarry is quite complex, and connected to the revelations about Esther, which remind him of his past.

It sounds strange to me - to us modern-day readers? - that he considered his falling in love with a woman such a terrible ‘sin’ and fall from grace. - I mean, he is no Catholic priest vowed to celibacy, so his ‘sin’ exists only in his own consciousness. Yet it demands from him lifelong penitence. .."

I got the impression that he wasn’t sure that Annette’s husband was dead, but he chose to believe that he was and went ahead and married her. He didn’t try to find out by looking for him. Even at the present time in the novel he still wasn’t sure, so he could be accused of potentially breaking one of the ten commandments which for a member of the clergy was inexcusable.

Trev wrote: "Even at the time of the novel he still wasn’t sure, so he could be accused of potentially breaking one of the ten commandments which for a priest was inexcusable."

I looked up that chapter again. Now I also got the impression that her being Catholic was a 'sin' in his eyes as well as in those of his congregation.

As each I read each section of the book, my distaste of the past iniquities of both Jermyn and Mrs. Transome hardens.

At one point, I thought that Mrs. Transome had taken a lover deliberately to have a sane child. Which would not make the affair morally better in Victorian terms, but more understandable in my eyes. We are told here, however, that she was driven by passion as much as Jermyn. I don't really know why that makes her more dislikable to me.

sabagrey wrote: "Trev wrote: "Even at the time of the novel he still wasn’t sure, so he could be accused of potentially breaking one of the ten commandments which for a priest was inexcusable."

I looked up that ch..."

It is the selfish motives driving them both that rankle with me. Not just the illicit affair(s) but the ruthless disposal of anyone getting in their way, such as Esther’s father.

Regarding Jermyn’s handling of the potential claim on the estate, the assumed ‘blind eye’ of Mrs. Transome incriminates her and/or her family just as much as Jermyn.

Chapter 21:

I was a little surprised about Jermyn's letter to Johnson: for 'lawyer-speak', it is rather open, isn't it? It implies that Johnson knows about the old Scaddon/Bycliffe case. Is Jermyn a little naive to think that Johnson will believe the question is 'of no practical importance'?

If I were Jermyn, I would employ someone else to make these inquiries - not a man who knows so much about the case from the beginning. But maybe I'm thinking too much in terms of modern detective stories here ;-)

Chapter 17:

It was not disgraceful to be neither a Quixote nor a theorist, aiming to correct the moral rules of the world: but whatever actually was, or might prove to be, disgraceful, Harold held in detestation.

An interesting turn: Harold is described as having some ‘real dignity and honesty’ in him. There are depths to which he will not descend. He is not *quite* the ruthless opportunist - nothing compared to Jermyn or Johnson.

I’m just finishing up this section. Week 2 was a little hard for me until the last chapters but there’s certainly a lot going on this week. It’s interesting to see Esther and Felix tempered as they encounter each other and situations new to their experience (or perhaps experience events with new eyes). Eliot us revealing more and more about the different characters, far beyond the secrets they carry.

I am a bit confused as to the inheritance laws. I did not think female children inherited, but perhaps, that is only when a property, etc. has been entailed.

sabagrey wrote: "Chapter 17:

There are depths to which he will not descend. He is not *quite* the ruthless opportunist - nothing compared to Jermyn or Johnson. .."

Although Harold might not go down to those ‘Jermyn depths’ he scoffs at those trying reach the higher levels.

‘ Harold, in his turn, disliked impracticable notions of loftiness and purity—disliked all enthusiasm; and he thought he saw a very troublesome, vigorous incorporation of that nonsense in Felix. But it would be foolish to exasperate him in any way.’

His middle-of-the-road attitude and demeanour is distinctly out of kilter with his words expressing radicalism.

Trev wrote: "His middle-of-the-road attitude and demeanour is distinctly out of kilter with his words expressing radicalism."

I have to remind myself over and over again how the semantics and connotations of the word 'radical' have changed - I have to add in the connotations I bring along from my native tongue & culture, with a different political history altogether ... and then I wonder where and when Harold ever uses words 'expressing radicalism'?

He says he's for the ballot: does that count as 'radical' at the time? - It's almost the only statement with any substance I can find.

In my understanding, there was no such thing as a 'party program', and every candidate more or less said what he wanted, with edges of political views and programs blurring and overlapping. There might have been Tories with a few more 'radical' views than a Radical, while Harold, as a Radical, does not seem to have to depart very far from his Tory environment.

sabagrey wrote: "Trev wrote: "His middle-of-the-road attitude and demeanour is distinctly out of kilter with his words expressing radicalism."

I have to remind myself over and over again how the semantics and conn..."

One person who seems to be a man of the people and yet embodies all that is hypocritical in the politics of the time is Uncle Lingon, Harold’s sponsor and supporter, and the one who introduces him at the hustings.

The description of him is quite telling.

’ He had always been called Jack Lingon, or Parson Jack—sometimes, in older and less serious days, even "Cock-fighting Jack." He swore a little when the point of a joke seemed to demand it, and was fond of wearing a colored bandana tied loosely over his cravat, together with large brown leather leggings; he spoke in a pithy familiar way that people could understand, and had none of that frigid mincingness called dignity, which some have thought a peculiar clerical disease. In fact, he was "a charicter—" something cheerful to think of, not entirely out of connection with Sunday and sermons.’

And what he says is even more illuminating……

‘ There's plenty of Radical scum—I say, beware of the scum, and look but for the cream. And here's my nephew—some of the cream, if there is any: none of your Whigs, none of your painted water that looks as if it ran, and it's standing still all the while; none of your spinning-jenny fellows. A gentleman;’

There has been a lot of speculation that Jermyn is Harold's father, and I am therefore surprised that Jermyn does not seem to suspect. It was also interesting to hear him described as the handsome, soft-eyed, slim young Jermyn which of course is very different to his personality and demeanour now.

It is interesting to me that Christian has held onto all the items in the thought that he might exchange them back with Bycliffe, should he ever turn up again. Would he not have sought him out? Or do you think that is just feigning on his part-that he kept the things with a view to giving them back?

Frances wrote: "There has been a lot of speculation that Jermyn is Harold's father, and I am therefore surprised that Jermyn does not seem to suspect. It was also interesting to hear him described as the handsome..."

I was also surprised at Jermyn’s ignorance of the possibility. The descriptions of Harold and Jermyn don’t seem to hint at any similarities (unless I have missed something) except that they are (were) both handsome men. Also, I don’t think there was any indication of a marked difference between Harold and his older brother. We are also ignorant of how much Mrs. Transome told Jermyn about her relationship with her husband during the time of their amorous liaison.

Frances wrote: "There has been a lot of speculation that Jermyn is Harold's father, and I am therefore surprised that Jermyn does not seem to suspect."

I rather got the impression that Jermyn knows, and I think there are clues: e.g. that Jermyn understands Mrs. Transome's worry that he should not quarrel with Harold (ch. 9)

“Good God!” said Mrs. Transome, taking her hand from his arm, “is it possible you don’t feel how horrible it would be [to quarrel with Harold]?”

If Jermyn were ignorant, his only reaction could be a 'no, why?' Then there's also this sentence:

There was a half-formed wish in both their minds—even in the mother’s—that Harold Transome had never been born.

In my view, a masterful use of language to let us know without telling: first Eliot makes a pair of the two characters with the word 'both', then she mentions only the 'mother' - but with the pairing in our minds, we add in the other part, 'father'.

sabagrey wrote: "Frances wrote: "There has been a lot of speculation that Jermyn is Harold's father, and I am therefore surprised that Jermyn does not seem to suspect."

I rather got the impression that Jermyn knows..."

I think the reason those remarks are quickly forgotten is because of the contemptuous way that Jermyn treats Harold (and almost everyone else except his daughters.) Has he shown any fatherly compassion (I won’t even mention love) whatsoever towards Harold? He seems to have a ruthless determination to get all he can out of the Transome family whilst preserving his own reputation at all costs.

Trev wrote: "I think the reason those remarks are quickly forgotten is because of the contemptuous way that Jermyn treats Harold (and almost everyone else except his daughters.) Has he shown any fatherly compassion (I won’t even mention love) whatsoever towards Harold? He seems to have a ruthless determination to get all he can out of the Transome family whilst preserving his own reputation at all costs."

For him, it's probably been an affair he considers long past, and without consequence for him. Or one he uses as a means of keeping Mrs. Transome compliant with his schemes. - To do him a bit of justice: With being 'fatherly' toward Harold he would risk to betray himself, and Mrs. Transome; so he had better be indifferent.

That’s a very good point, Trev. I find him a very difficult character. Im not sure if he’s complex or just completely self-absorbed. He’s one that I’m very curious to see how Eliot handles.

sabagrey wrote: "Trev wrote: "I think the reason those remarks are quickly forgotten is because of the contemptuous way that Jermyn treats Harold (and almost everyone else except his daughters.) Has he shown any fa..."

I'm also not entirely sure if he 'knows' Harold is his son; though the affair is his power over Mrs Transome.

Lady Clementina wrote: "I'm also not entirely sure if he 'knows' Harold is his son; though the affair is his power over Mrs Transome."

Even if he could not be sure at the time of Harold's birth: don't we know enough of Jermyn by now to see that he would have done everything to know for certain? - It's not like him to let a potentially valuable piece of information lie by the wayside.

sabagrey wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: "I'm also not entirely sure if he 'knows' Harold is his son; though the affair is his power over Mrs Transome."

Even if he could not be sure at the time of Harold's birth: d..."

True, Sabagrey. It is most likely that he would, but what puzzles one then is why he grudges Harold the estate, if he does know the truth.

Lady Clementina wrote: "what puzzles one then is why he grudges Harold the estate, if he does know the truth."

I do not think he 'grudges the estate'. Jermyn has managed Mrs. Transome's business in a way that secured considerable - and possibly illicit - profits for himself. He could do so without risk as long as Harold was away and had nothing to say. He had power over Mrs. Transome - blackmail, for short: if their affair became public, it would be disastrous for her, but not for him, according to the double standards of the period. Neither Mr. Transome nor the elder son had any idea of business. But now there is Harold, an experienced business man, who sees through Jermyn's machinations immediately. Jermyn fears retribution, i.e. legal persecution of misdemeanour. Jermyn's way to defend himself is - of course - blackmail. For him, the fact that Harold is his son plays no role at all. No 'blood ties' or 'family ties' - it's all about business with Jermyn.