Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our buddy read of The Constant Nymph by Margaret Kennedy.

Tessa is the daughter of a brilliant bohemian composer, Albert Sanger, who with his "circus" of precocious children, slovenly mistress, and assortment of hangers-on, lives in a rambling chalet high in the Austrian Alps. The fourteen-year-old Tessa has fallen in love with Lewis Dodd, a gifted composer like her father. Confidently, she awaits maturity, for even his marriage to Tessa's beautiful cousin Florence cannot shatter the loving bond between Lewis and his constant nymph.

First published in 1924, this is an unexpected story with lots to discuss. The main discussion will be in October 2023 but feel free to post any thoughts immediately.

So it's not a story about a constantly swimming nymph. Oh well, since I bought it already, I will go ahead and read it anyway.

🤩

Ha! But yes, so many questions are raised by that cover. At first sight it looks inviting and 'vintage' - but the more we think about it, the more unsettling it becomes... a bit like this book.

I'm looking forward to re-reading this as there's much I wanted to talk about the first time.

RC, this is still not on the calendar in the "All current and forthcoming reads" thread.

Thanks Brian - now added

I've made a start on this one and already puzzling over it, are we meant to side with the Sanger family and their prejudices about class, race etc or consider them suspect? I was expecting something more along the lines of I Capture the Castle but this is quite different in tone/atmosphere.

I'm just about to make a start. I had also been expecting something lighter than where this book goes - I remember being surprised on my first read. Will come back to your comment on the Sangers in a bit.

I am intending to start this today. Apparently, the subject matter means it fell out of favour, according to the introduction. I'm never sure whether or not to read the introduction of books, as they tend to give so much away. Still, I loved The Feast, so I am interested to begin.

Alwynne wrote: "I've made a start on this one and already puzzling over it, are we meant to side with the Sanger family and their prejudices about class, race etc or consider them suspect?"

Have only just started but do remember some offensive racist terms from my first read - and think they were from Kennedy, and part of what was unquestioningly acceptable at the time.

Susan wrote: "I am intending to start this today. Apparently, the subject matter means it fell out of favour, according to the introduction. I'm never sure whether or not to read the introduction of books"

I started this introduction but even though I've read it before it's still too spoilery so I'm planning to come back to it at the end. Certainly some controversial matter for readers today.

I always say that you need to read books and think of their time, but I barely made it through Lolita!

I couldn't make it through a reread of Lolita but I think that's because Nabokov is too successful at putting us in the head of Humbert.

I'm less certain what Kennedy's intention is here. It's interesting to compare this to Nancy Mitford's novels where the girls generally shriek with horrified laughter at creepy older men. And poor Polly's situation in Love in a Cold Climate make us acutely aware of how Mitford herself views that relationship.

I'm not far enough in to say as yet. I think, from the little I have read, there is this sense of a bohemian arty lifestyle that was often seen as so attractive in books in that period. Like Nancy Mitford, these children may have something to say about their lack of education in later life though!

I just wish I found it as compelling as Mitford, it's a bit of a slog at the moment but hoping it will improve as I get used to the settings and characters.

I've also found it less compelling this time than I remember - and more problematic in terms of how things are presented.

It's sort of Lolita meets The Little Mermaid, and apt that the composer is named Lewis!

I found it distinctly unpleasant, in the way it dealt with its problematic themes, and abandoned it.

Rosina wrote: "I found it distinctly unpleasant, in the way it dealt with its problematic themes, and abandoned it."

I'm tempted to do that too, I don't like the themes and I can't deal with Kennedy's style either. It's managing to be dull and hard to fathom at the same time.

I'm not even sure what the themes are and I've just finished chapter 9 - is it as straightforward as 'bohemian' life meets English middle-class?

Gosh, my experience the first time must have been so different as I gave this 4-stars! Struggling to see why now. (view spoiler)[There's a scene in ch.9 where Antonia implies that Jacob got her drunk and 'seduced' her - even her claim that she'd already decided to sleep with him still leaves me feeling disturbed (hide spoiler)]

Is there an idea that there's something romantic about young girls 'falling in love' with much older men? There are lots of age-gap relationships in nineteenth century fiction but at least the young women are usually adults and the relationships are often 'policed' by their social circles. But I'm thinking of Lydia in Pride and Prejudice who is 15/16 - though there's no mistaking the disapproval with which we and Austen judge that match.

Thanks everyone


I wasn't going to read this, then I discovered it's "free" with an Audible account and thought I might, then I read a few reviews and was wavering, and now, based on the comments in this discussion, I'm pretty sure I won't bother.

In the meantime, I'm loving the latest Mick Herron

Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm not even sure what the themes are and I've just finished chapter 9 - is it as straightforward as 'bohemian' life meets English middle-class?

Gosh, my experience the first time must have been ..."

Possibly I skimmed to the end and there is a particularly unpleasant scene where Lewis's wife accuses Teresa of throwing herself at him, and it's clear that the girl is the one considered wrong here simply because he's a married man. There's no real acknowledgement of her youth or inexperience or the possibility of exploitation. And you're right it's odd, thinking too of Middlemarch where the age gap between Casaubon and Dorothea is also clearly seen as a problem.

Also I think there's a lot more anti-Semitism than is usual here, certainly compared to the other novels I've read from this era, there's usually one or two brief but grating references but this is a lot more marked. Although it's not always clear where Kennedy stands in relation to it.

I agree, the anti-Semitism feels more deep-seated than the usual 'casual' racism of the period.

The plot has picked up now for me. I'm still really not sure what Kennedy meant this book to be about. Teresa is making me think of Tess of the d'Urbevilles.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I agree, the anti-Semitism feels more deep-seated than the usual 'casual' racism of the period.

The plot has picked up now for me. I'm still really not sure what Kennedy meant this book to be abo..."

That's an interesting comparison maybe another reason why it's not working for me, I really hate that Hardy novel. I'm not keen on Hardy in general.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I agree, the anti-Semitism feels more deep-seated than the usual 'casual' racism of the period.

The plot has picked up now for me. I'm still really not sure what Kennedy meant this book to be abo..."

I think this is partly about bohemian notions of the artistic versus the more conventional - sort of Woolf versus Galsworthy. So Florence represents a staid, conventional aspect of culture, she likes the idea of Lewis as a composer/artistic creator but not the values that go with that. Lewis is interested in Florence and her standing in society and her conventionality but can't actually live with it without feeling stifled. Neither are being true to themselves or each other. However Teresa is constant not just in her feelings about Lewis but in not abandoning her ideals/cultural roots? She remains wild/free/pure of heart?

I looked up more on Kennedy apparently J. M. Barrie, A. A. Milne and Thomas Hardy loved this and wrote to Kennedy to tell her. Apparently it was also a favourite of Simone de Beauvoir's. I also came across a review which claims it echoes elements of Edith Wharton's The Children. But think I'm ultimately with Rosina on this one.

I don't disagree but easy binaries are complicated in this book as Lewis comes from the same background/class as Florence being the son of Sir Felix; and Florence had already admired his compositions before meeting him. Plus the 'bohemian' side of the equation also includes Linda who lazed around all day and didn't do anything.

The thing about Teresa being 'constant' is that she's too young to be given that label with any meaningfulness.

I wonder too about the age thing - is it significant in terms of Kennedy's vision for the book or does she just regard it as a non-issue? Or is it a marker of the instability of the 'bohemian' lifestyle that girls are precocious, sexually and otherwise?

It's notable how the two marriages parallel each other.

Also I'm pondering where our sympathies lie - the Sanger girls have some of the charm of Mitford's girls but Lewis is careless and selfish and the Sanger father hopeless with his family, leaving them penniless. That contrasts with Florence and her father/uncle who may not be creative/artistic but take on a protective role for the orphaned children.

It's quite a disorientating book!

Gosh, that's a weird line-up of fans! Haha, maybe Hardy saw Tess too ;)

Roman Clodia wrote: "I don't disagree but easy binaries are complicated in this book as Lewis comes from the same background/class as Florence being the son of Sir Felix; and Florence had already admired his compositio..."

I get the issue about the technical equality between Florence and Lewis but doesn't she also represent the values he's rejected but also their residual allure?

I think that Teresa's desires are linked to her upbringing not so much in terms of sexual precocity but unfettered emotion - the kind that presumably boarding-school is meant to temper. She reminds me of the kind of character found in books by novelists like Mary Webb, closer to nature - isn't the use of the term 'nymph' intended to evoke that?

In terms of constancy there's a discussion of Romeo and Juliet fairly early on, where Teresa sees herself as a sort of Juliet figure, so prepared to give her all for love - which might be another way of interpreting constancy.

Is it disorientating or just not totally coherent?

Although I assume on some level we're supposed to read it as a tragic love triangle with Lewis failing to realise who's best for him, and Florence settling for second best? I think part of the problem for me was that I wasn't invested in any of the characters so didn't really much care about what might happen to them, and it seemed to me a novel that required me to care. I can't help comparing it to Nancy Mitford's The Pursuit of Love or Dodie Smith's I Capture the Castle both of which I love, and both of which feature characters that really came to life for me, in ways Kennedy's just didn't.

Alwynne wrote: "Is it disorientating or just not totally coherent?"

Excellent question! I'm just past the halfway mark so will think about this.

That's an interesting speculation about the term 'nymph' and the Webb-esque connotations. In classical mythic terms it's also associated with nature and, often, victimisation by predatory males, as well as chastity and virginity.

I expected exactly the same Mitford/Smith vibe when I read this the first time, and there are touches of that like the letters from Pauline and Teresa to Lewis from the boarding school - but the mood is quite different. Also, there are too many characters, some of whom fade away which leaves this feeling unfocused. It's definitely not 4 stars this time, for sure :)

Joanna Briscoe's intro to the Vintage edition, which I've now read, suggests Lewis represents a form of 'noble savage' or 'wild creature' a sort of posher version of Heathcliff and that Teresa is able to recognise this and respond to it. Florence however is the dutiful, upright woman constrained by convention, which causes her to reject this aspect of Lewis and this is her shortcoming. Although can't say I saw Lewis as particularly noble! It also suggests that it was necessary for Teresa to remain sexually innocent/a maiden.

And apparently rampant anti-Semitism was a feature of Kennedy's first novel which either means she found it a fascinating subject or that she was unusually prejudiced even for her time.

Sorry about the disjointed thoughts, doing several things at once. In terms of which group we're supposed to champion, I assumed because Sanger's based on Augustus John and his work was considered highly culturally significant at the time that we're supposed to think about the conditions under which great art can flourish, and that the English system of boarding-schools and society convention is precisely the wrong climate.

Alwynne wrote: "I looked up more on Kennedy apparently J. M. Barrie, A. A. Milne and Thomas Hardy loved this and wrote to Kennedy to tell her. Apparently it was also a favourite of Simone de Beauvoir's. I also cam..."

Both Barrie and Milne had interesting takes on childhood (from their work - I know nothing about their lives). And Hardy wrote Jude the Obscure ... I do find myself wondering if the idea of a constant nymph of their own appealed.

Rosina wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "I looked up more on Kennedy apparently J. M. Barrie, A. A. Milne and Thomas Hardy loved this and wrote to Kennedy to tell her. Apparently it was also a favourite of Simone de Beauvo..."

Good point! Yes Barrie distinctly suspect, Hardy not great where women concerned, don't know much about Milne but can well believe it.

I was thinking about age gap relationships and they were common in popular romances of the time, particularly in Mills & Boon but not quite as drastic as this, when I was reading Rebecca aspects seemed to be parodying those kinds of novels, and du Maurier's take on the gap between her lead and Maxim seems similar to Mitford's in that the second Mrs de Winter essentially ends up as a carer/nurse maid.

So many interesting points here, and not disjointed at all. I can't imagine someone less Heathcliff than Lewis - he's shy and isn't he ginger? 🤭

Lewis and Tessa have now kissed and embraced, and she's been sitting on his lap. The fact that this is all quite open makes it slightly less icky, but only the teensiest bit.

Talking about Barrie and Milne in the same breadth does lead to a possible fetishisation of childhood. I wonder what de Beauvoir saw in it?

Roman Clodia wrote: "So many interesting points here, and not disjointed at all. I can't imagine someone less Heathcliff than Lewis - he's shy and isn't he ginger? 🤭

Lewis and Tessa have now kissed and embraced, and s..."

The lap made it seem more icky for me, couldn't help wondering what might be poking through his trousers! Presumably this was fairly scandalous at the time though? The age of consent had been sixteen for quite some time by then hadn't it? Or was love supposed to transcend social taboos?

Georgette Heyer's heroines are sometimes rather young, but she does differentiate between characters who are too young, and being preyed upon by older men, and those who though young are mature enough to handle romance. As they are her characters, she can decide on what makes 'maturity'.

Of course, the couple who are perhaps most problematic are in The Spanish Bride, where the hero is 25 and the heroine 14. But this is the one Heyer romance where one can say for sure that the marriage will last - for 48 years, until the hero's death.

Roman Clodia wrote: "So many interesting points here, and not disjointed at all. I can't imagine someone less Heathcliff than Lewis - he's shy and isn't he ginger? 🤭

Lewis and Tessa have now kissed and embraced, and s..."

I've seen de Beauvoir referenced in relation to the 'Lolita syndrome' because of the possibility that she deliberately found young girls for Sartre to romance - and the relevant essay of hers actually uses the term 'nymph'.

"The first work by a philosopher (to my knowledge) that gathered together some of these threads was Simone de Beauvoir’s “Brigitte Bardot and the Lolita Syndrome,” an essay first published in Esquire magazine in August 1959. It has to be said that Beauvoir’s interest in these matters was not purely theoretical (in fact, it is hard to conceive of any philosopher’s thoughts being purely theoretical). As a diligent investigator, I am obliged to say that she was dismissed from her teaching job in 1943 for “behavior leading to the corruption of a minor.” The minor in question was one of her pupils at a Paris lycée. It is well established that she and Jean-Paul Sartre developed a pattern, which they called the “trio,” in which Beauvoir would seduce her students and then pass them on to Sartre. (See, for example, “A Disgraceful Affair,” by Bianca Lamblin, in which she recalls being infatuated with Beauvoir, but romanced systematically by Sartre, who cheerfully remarks, on the way to a consummation, that “the hotel chambermaid will be really surprised, because she caught me taking another girl’s virginity only yesterday.”)

Beauvoir’s “Lolita Syndrome” (her personal favorite, she said, among her essays) offers an evangelical defence of the sexual emancipation of the young. They have been tied up in chains for too long: Bardot is presented as the Harry Houdini who will get them out of bondage. Bardot is a filmic counterpart to Beauvoir herself, the Socrates of St. Tropez who is falsely convicted of “corrupting the youth of France.” She is a “woman-child” — a “garçon manqué érotique” — whose age difference is capable of re-igniting burned-out desire: “she retains the perfect innocence inherent in the myth of childhood.” Beauvoir posits Bardot as the incarnation of “authenticity” and natural, pure “desire,” with “aggressive” sexuality devoid of any hypocrisy. The author of “The Second Sex” is keen to stress sexual equality and autonomy, but she also insists on the “charms of the ‘nymph’ in whom the fearsome image of the wife and the mother is not yet visible.”

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionat...

Also Sartre apparently admired Kennedy and asked de Beauvoir to send him copies of her work, he read another Kennedy novel and commented - although my source for this is vague:

"...it recalls some of the charm of The Constant Nymph. Not all the charm the subject is less appealing..."

http://clothesinbooks.blogspot.com/20...

Doesn't Nabokov use the term 'nymphet' in Lolita or am I confusing that with a popular way of describing young women from that era?

Rosina wrote: "Georgette Heyer's heroines are sometimes rather young, but she does differentiate between characters who are too young, and being preyed upon by older men, and those who though young are mature eno..."

I didn't know that, Heyer's someone I haven't gotten around to reading yet but her work was exceptionally popular so presumably the gap wasn't necessarily read as problematic by large numbers of readers?

For her fictional characters, the age gap can go up to 20 years - and I have seen recent comments about even the lower level of gap being a problem for some people - but so is first-cousin-marriage, which also happens in Heyer. Perhaps it wasn't a problem for her earlier, British readers.

The marriage of Harry and Juana in The Spanish Bride might have been seen as a bit worrying, in the book and at the time of the actual marriage, but at least Juana got a town named after her (Ladysmith).

Had an insane week at work so glad to be getting back to this...

Of course, de Beauvoir and Sartre's unsavoury association with her students.

And yes, Heyer does like age gap relationships, it seems a literary trope. Btw, Alwynne, I adore Heyer who makes me laugh out loud in her best books.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Had an insane week at work so glad to be getting back to this...

Of course, de Beauvoir and Sartre's unsavoury association with her students.

And yes, Heyer does like age gap relationships, it s..."

Good to reach the weekend here too, curled up with a slice of cake and a cup of coffee and looking forward to not having aching feet!

Ha, yes, sounds like a perfect Friday night!

I've just got to the scene where Florence's father watches Tessa and Lewis and thinks they're the perfect couple. I don't think Kennedy is troubled at all by the fact that Tessa is now just fifteen. The more I read, the more I think this is written in a straight way, it's not critical of the age thing at all.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ha, yes, sounds like a perfect Friday night!

I've just got to the scene where Florence's father watches Tessa and Lewis and thinks they're the perfect couple. I don't think Kennedy is troubled at..."

It does come up at the end but in a way I found confusing.

I was also reminded of Colette's 'Gigi' the young woman in that is very young but I think in France at the time not technically under the age of consent, and that was written nearly 20 years later. But when Kennedy was writing the age of consent in England was already 16 and had been for some time.

Of course, 'Gigi' - I've never seen the film but 'Thank heavens, for little girls' 🎶 which is almost impossible to listen to today.

I seem to recall that Colette makes her 16? - plus there's the context of her growing up in a family of women who are professional mistresses/courtesans.

There's quite an archetype that we're uncovering, not just young girls/older men but the idea of the ingenue who waltzes off with the eligible man: essentially the plot of everything from Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre onwards.