Virago Modern Classics discussion

The rules of nominating books to read:

1. One member can nominate 1 or 2 books.

2. Don't nominate a book that was nominated in the preceding month. You can do it next month.

3. If there will be more than 6 nominations - only the first nomination of each member will be taken into account.

4. The poll will have no more than 6 options.

5. If there will be more than 6 options (more than 6 members nominate different books) the first nominations/members will be chosen (first come, first served).

6. The time for nomination will be closed when we will have 6 different books from 6 members or before the 20th of the month if there won't be many nominations. There will be information about nearing the end of time. Then there will be time for voting on the poll by the end of the month.

If you have suggestions/questions about the rules - feel free to comment.

I wouldn't necessarily make it a rule, but as a general matter, and as a courtesy, if a person nominates a book and their book is chosen, they should read it with the group unless something happens in their life that makes that impossible for them to manage.

Christine PNW wrote: "I wouldn't necessarily make it a rule, but as a general matter, and as a courtesy, if a person nominates a book and their book is chosen, they should read it with the group unless something happens..."

I would have thought as understood by itself. But since you put it here, you saw such cases... Of course, I agree with you.

I'd like to add here - in other groups I've seen the option that the person who nominated a book and then it wins the poll etc. This person can - if they like volunteer to lead the discussion. It means that the moderator doesn't have to lead and participate in every single group read.

The idea basically is to mention this at the time of nominations - and each nominee can then state if they would like to lead the discussion.

Laura wrote: "I'd like to add here - in other groups I've seen the option that the person who nominated a book and then it wins the poll etc. This person can - if they like volunteer to lead the discussion. It m..."

In our group, the moderator definitely, in most cases, doesn't lead the discussion. I just open threads for it. Personally, I don't see the point in adding such a rule - one simply can discuss. But it is my opinion. We will see what other members would say about the suggestion.

Laura has also suggested in a different thread, that we allow to nominate books, we have read already. To other members - please write what you think of it.

Mela wrote: "Laura has also suggested in a different thread, that we allow to nominate books, we have read already. To other members - please write what you think of it."

I've noted this in another thread but happy to go with what most other groups seem to do, which is resurrect/add to existing threads. Seems to work well enough, and often members who've already read the title are then inspired to add comments.

Mela wrote: "Laura wrote: "I'd like to add here - in other groups I've seen the option that the person who nominated a book and then it wins the poll etc. This person can - if they like volunteer to lead the di..."

I think your free-flowing approach is fine, can be useful if the person nominating adds some information/relevant references to additional reading related to their selection - if chosen - to the relevant thread.

Moderating threads to sort out disputes between members can be helpful too, but extensive moderating of a specific buddy/group read can sometimes feel intrusive/heavy-handed. Thinking of the ones where people seem to be directing or steering participants towards a particular reading.

I don't see a need for the person who nominates a book to lead the discussion if it wins. I do think that if you nominate you have an obligation to read and comment, but that is sufficient. (Obviously there may be unforeseen circumstances when you can't read it.)

I do belong to groups where a lead is asked for, and it makes me reluctant to nominate. If you nominate and have a lot to contribute to the discussion, great, it can be very enlightening.

If a group book is a reread I am happy for old threads to be reopened. In addition, not all group members will get to the book in the month it is scheduled for, and they can add their comments. Even if group members have left it is still interesting reading their observations.

Yes - I agree with all of Sonia's observations. My main interest is to try and boost the discussion of books. The idea of a Lead - is someone who can give some background information and/or state why the book can be if particular interest for the group. It's possible that a leader may have already read the book and wants to revisit?

I understand the role of a lead, I just don't think it needs to be formalised. If a group member has insights or extra information to share then they can share them, it will be great to read them . I also don't want to place any obligation on group members who nominate to lead a discussion or provide extra background information etc.

Personally I have no interest in re visiting novels I've already read. There are too many I haven't read as yet.

If you nominate a book then you should be part of the discussion - it's only polite.

With a "leader" running the discussion I tend to feel I'm back in the classroom again for some reason.

Cphe wrote: "Personally I have no interest in re visiting novels I've already read. There are too many I haven't read as yet.

If you nominate a book then you should be part of the discussion - it's only polite..."

Totally agree about that 'classroom' impression!

Mela wrote: "Laura has also suggested in a different thread, that we allow to nominate books, we have read already. To other members - please write what you think of it."

I think it is fine to have rereads but two years IMO is a bit too close. Maybe four/five years.

& I really don't like it when members suggest books they have no intention of rereading themselves - unless their memory is so good that they can participate without rereading. I was in a group with a sweet older lady that used to do that all the time. I like the discussion aspect - sort of like its an online book club.

Summarizing at this point. [I am not ending the discussion about those two topics.]

1. Most people are against the idea of a thread leader.
2. Most people are in favor of re-reading. Here is the next question: After how many years?

I agree with Carol that two years is too little, I would suggest five years too.

I don't reread so I prefer them as buddy reads, or at least not allowed every month in the polls. There are hundreds of books we haven't read. If rereads are allowed, I agree with five years.

Let's take for example my suggestion The Tortoise and the Hare - which was read in July '23.

Five people participated in this discussion, including Mela. So, out of a members list of almost 400 this book has now been relegated - out of commission - for the next - 5 years?

Considering this was Carmen Callil's favourite out of the 700 she saw brought back into circulation by Virago - I'm wondering if you are overlooking some factors.

First - Are you interested in attracting more nominations, more voting, more readers and more discussion? If the answer to this is a resounding - NO - then fine. I'm done.

What exactly is this Group doing? Is it some kind of numbers recording site - where you get to tick off Books Read. Or are you actually interested in understanding what you read, by having an informed discussion about the books. Again - if you are NOT interested in discussion - then please say so, and I will clear off.

Laura wrote: "Let's take for example my suggestion The Tortoise and the Hare - which was read in July '23.

Five people participated in this discussion, including Mela. So, out of a members list o..."

I think we are having a discussion - just some of us don't agree with you.

Because I've lost track - can members reopen the old discussion on The Tortoise & the Hare? Because that seems like it would be an ideal solution.

& groups appear to be dying on Goodreads generally. Thanks to you Laura, this group has had some lively discussion this week, but other than that all but one of the groups that I belong to are quieter than they were. This includes the Librarians Group for fixing book records on Goodreads.

As far as I can tell - none of you have agreed with anything that I have suggested.

So far Mela and Cphe have agreed to read The Newspaper of Claremont Street in a May buddy read - Good.
Although the Elizabeth Jolley I really would like to read is her most well known The Well but it is not published by Virago. It would probably be easier to find than the other. I think the only reason Mela and Cphe have agreed is because many Virago books are available on Internet Archive - I use that a lot.

Internet Archive had to withdraw 500,000 books recently due to their big law case. American and British publishers are suing this online library. Viragos - on the other hand, are still abundantly available via Internet Archive. It is one of the few publishing houses who have not joined the fracas to claim lost revenues?
Perhaps Virago have assessed that there is a need for people without access to libraries to have an online resource that is Free.

I mention this because book sourcing does require a purchase commitment or if you are lucky and have access to a local library -then you need to find it or book it etc.

The other thing to mention is that a Virago group appears to have a serious advantage over other reading groups - its books are available for FREE online. Also members have mentioned the Gutenberg Project - free online resource.

Thank you Carol for saying "some lively discussion this week."

Does anyone have any ideas for improving the participation? And yes I recognise an overall decline in Goodreads Groups participation. Some groups are thriving, however; maybe we should ask - what is their magic formula?

But again - I think it is up to the active members to decide what they want this group to be - to do. I don't see why Collectors can't cohabit with Discussion freaks - like me. The collectors can just add their comments - "I read this - I have another 650 books to go!" etc. And the discussers can say - why they liked the book or disliked it. It can all take place in the same thread.

I belong to a number of groups on Goodreads. From my observation I don't think you need a lot of members to read a book to get a lively discussion over the month. Sometimes two can be enough, other times five or six. The key is picking a book that members are interested in reading.

How can we do this? Laura mentioned The Tortoise and the Hare and Barbara Pym. Both TTATH and Barbara Pym books are really good, but many of us will have read them (probably outside the group) over the past few years.

So how to we identify books with a wide appeal, that we haven’t already read?

Does anyone have any ideas for improving the participation? And yes I recognise an overall decline in Goodreads Groups participation. Some groups are thriving, however; maybe we should ask - what is their magic formula?

The group I'm in that is holding their own has four active, knowledgeable moderators & it is a very popular genre - Golden Age Mysteries.

I'll just mention that I probably can't participate in any reads before May. My reading speed has slowed down & I moderate two groups myself, both of which do a book pool. One goes from Feb-Nov, the other is Feb-Mar - & normally it is the only group where I can read books from my country. & I'm leading two group reads in April.

So my dance card is a bit full atm. :)

Edit - I will say my favourite read this year, by a considerable margin was Vera - which I read in January.

Yes - Vera by Elizabeth von Arnim caught my eye - and I was really sad to miss it - maybe I couldn't find the book on time.

A good way to encourage participation is to provide readers with a list of books they can nominate from - saves them having to think too hard. And if there are plenty of nominations - it's more likely that there will be something to please most Virago readers. It also leads into my Themes idea - and Carol's "Book Pool" - which I think encourages a theme over 4 or 2 months.

I would love to do a Barbara Pym Book Pool.
And secondly - books that don't win, but have been nominated should continue to be nominated, because obviously everyone wants their nomination to win. If someone has gone to the "effort" - small and all that it is - shouldn't that nomination been honoured as someone's desire to read that book in a group. Buddy reads could certainly pick up the non-winners.

We could have several Buddy Reads for each month.

I don't have a lot of experience of organising Groups. I did run two small groups for my friends - and we had no problems. But I kept things simple.

"So how do we identify books with a wide appeal, that we haven't already read?" - Sonia's excellent question.

We could have a discussion thread - about Virago books generally - so that ideas of what's popular and what isn't can be tossed around. I'm off to check - I suspect we already have that thread.

I find asking for a buddy read easy. If someone wants to read with me great, if not I will read by myself. Nominating a book for a group read is a bit trickier as I am trying to double guess which of my Viragos will have the widest appeal and are easy to obtain.

Virago is the publisher I read most books from. I have read eight this year and have about 20 more on my shelves that I intend to get to before the end of the year. I also have some in mind to purchase. I would be happy to list these with links if that would be useful. They are a bit random, but they provide me with a good range for mood reading.

Laura wrote: "Yes - Vera by Elizabeth von Arnim caught my eye - and I was really sad to miss it - maybe I couldn't find the book on time.

A good way to encourage participation is t..."

I own A Glass of Blessings which is also published by Virago.

I'm happy to nominate it for a group or buddy for May (when noms open)

& as a shameless plug* there are two Pyms in the Retro Reads Book Pool this year (from the end of Pym's career.) The theme is simple - books have to have been first published between 1900-1980. I did try to extend it to 1999, but the membership of the group weren't keen on that.

BLK, the book has to be readily available in print & as an ebook. (but exceptions about the latter have been made for NZ books)

* I'll remove this if you want, Mela. :)

Laura wrote: "As far as I can tell - none of you have agreed with anything that I have suggested.

So far Mela and Cphe have agreed to read The Newspaper of Claremont Street in a May buddy read - ..."

I have no idea what Internet archive is and have never sourced a book from there. What is it?

Also are you sure there are 400 active members in this group still?

Cphe wrote: "Laura wrote: "As far as I can tell - none of you have agreed with anything that I have suggested.

So far Mela and Cphe have agreed to read The Newspaper of Claremont Street in a May..."

The Internet Archive is an American not for profit organisation where members upload copies of books etc. which you can borrow for free. Like all these sites (YouTube etc.) some things will be out of copyright and others not and those will often be taken down.

This is the link to the page for The Newspaper of Claremont Street.
https://archive.org/details/newspaper...

For me, I haven’t participated much because the books aren’t very available, but mostly because there is very little discussion. I reread Precious Bane, supposedly a buddy read, but I was the only one who commented. I saw 30 comments under the current book, but only a few were actually about the content of the book.

This isn’t unique to this group. I have been on GR since 2011 and I am a Mod in several groups. Sometimes it’s a struggle to get participation. The groups with the most discussion participation I am aware of have discussion leaders who ask specific questions or post relevant info. If that sounds like school, personally I loved school, especially literature classes. There are also more comments when the book is divided up, so each week only a certain number of chapters are discussed in detail.

Sonia wrote: "Cphe wrote: "Laura wrote: "As far as I can tell - none of you have agreed with anything that I have suggested.

So far Mela and Cphe have agreed to read [book:The Newspaper of Claremont Street|3073..."

It also has a wide array of vintage movies and other materials. Some things can be accessed without logging in, otherwise just set up an account. They were hacked not long ago so might be worth using an email account that's not your main one - certainly don't use a password you've used elsewhere. Also if accessing from the UK currently may be blocked if not using a VPN.

Hi Robin P - I would love to read with you. I saw your comment for Precious Bane - and you know although this isn't a book I would naturally choose - I do recognise that being part of a group - is taking that chance. Saying Yes - to something you wouldn't normally pick.

So - if you're up for it, I will gladly join in with your choice. April nominations are posted - but I'll stick my vote with whatever you would like to read? And then May is open - and we have the Buddy reads.

I'm going to check what I've signed up for - and report back 😊

Cphe - oh no not active members - about 400 silent members.

Internet Archive - just type that into Google - there were millions of books, videos, documents, reports, recordings available - but a law case by the publishing industry has required the archive to remove half a million books. Virago books are, however often still available.

Hi - reporting back.
Have you read - The Tortoise and the Hare by Elizabeth Jenkins - Robin?

Also I will participate in March read - The Land of Spice.

I nominated - Told by an Idiot by Rose Macaulay for April - but I can change my vote to support your choice Robin - I guess I'm allowed to do that 😂
And I have a Buddy read for May - Elizabeth Jolley's - The Newspaper of Claremont Street - Mela and Cphe - have both expressed interest there.

And yes - asking questions is the best way to encourage discussion - and having some one in the discussion who has some background on the book also helps.

Robin P wrote: "For me, I haven’t participated much because the books aren’t very available, but mostly because there is very little discussion. I reread Precious Bane, supposedly a buddy read, but I was the only ..."

Sorry about 'Precious Bane' I've actually read it but loathed it, and didn't want to sound churlish or put others off. I love Cold Comfort Farm though, which is basically a satirical, send-up of the Webb.

Yes - also dividing the book into chapters - these are the usual structures in nearly all groups I have been in.

1. I don't understand why there is a repeated belief that if a group has already read a book, nothing more can be done without an official re-read. After all, if someone wants to, they can read such a book and comment on it in the thread about it. If another member wants to reply - they will reply. That is why these threads are not deleted, so that people who read them later can join the discussion.

2. No one is blocking the discussion. Laura, if you want to revive the group, read with us, nominate, discuss. There is no need to expand the list of books (beyond VMC) etc. The more active the group is, the greater the chance that others will join.

3. It is not true that we agreed on only one of your suggestions, Laura (i.e. one item in buddy-read). I opened threads for you, encouraged you to open new ones yourself, suggested how to develop the idea of ​​thematic reading (whether you will manage to encourage others to do so is another matter).

4. Laura, you wrote "A good way to encourage participation is to provide readers with a list of books they can nominate from" - we have such a list of 665 books, I think it will last quite a long time.

5. Laura, if a book does not win, anyone can nominate it again after a month's break. There is only this one limitation, to give other nominations a chance, but there is no permanent exclusion. If I care about reading a book, I nominate it as often as it wins (in this and other groups).

6. I tried a classical buddy read, but no one wanted to participate then, so I did "a yearly" version. But since you also want an individual version - I created a thread for it - link.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "...* I'll remove this if you want, Mela. :)"

No need. By the way, I am going to read Pym as a read with the Retro Reads Book Pool too ;-)

And once again to everyone: My goal is not to suppress ideas for making the group more active. My goal is to stick to the core goals of the group (VMC) and to keep the threads organized because chaos is often the first step to losing interest from members and the group dying out.

Point 4 - choosing randomly from 665 books - is not my idea of a nominated list - which is why I suggested a Themes list to try and give some structure to those 665 books.

5. Yes I acknowledged that a book can be renominated after one month but I don't see many re-nominations?

3. I've seen a lot of negative comments - such as "Oh I don't want to be in the classroom."
Or themes is just a big "wormhole" or
We don't need leaders.
Or - we don't re-read - the list is too long for re-reads.

I am wanting to offer constructive suggestions - because as Robin P pointed out as I also commented on several threads Robin is having a discussion - all by herself.

I am sure you Mela have done loads of work to revitalise the group - I mean you took upon yourself to restart the whole group - so I most certainly do appreciate your adventurous spirit and the time demands you have put into organising our group.

Like several others I have noted through participation in other groups and looking for love groups that there appears to be something of a general decline.

So I am only trying to revive and encourage other members to speak up, to join in and voice their ideas - what works for them and what doesn't.

I'm sorry if you felt got at - I did feel frustrated several times - but I decided just to voice my opinion anyway.

Yes - thank you for including the nominations for Told by An Idiot. And yes - you've also agreed to a buddy read in May - thank you again.

I think it's really helpful to see points of view from people who are actively participating - they will most likely have a better idea of where the blocks could be.

I hope we can all work together - the moderator job is a big responsibility and I would like to support you - but you can also delegate and share out responsibilities - that was why I suggest the Lead person - to give some background - and to encourage discussion - and frees you up a little - I would hope.

My best - yes - I am trying to be much more careful about where responses and suggestions go.

Alwynne wrote: "Robin P wrote: "For me, I haven’t participated much because the books aren’t very available, but mostly because there is very little discussion. I reread Precious Bane, supposedly a buddy read, but..."

That's funny, I also love Cold Comfort Farm, so I can see both sides! Actually it would be great to discuss a book with someone who has a very different opinion.

Unfortunately, the number of participants in any group isn't reliable as an indication of interest. Many groups have thousands listed and maybe a dozen actually read or post comments.

Again, this isn't anyone's fault. It's extremely common on GR, and I don't know any secrets for getting more people more involved. I would be happy to promote this group to a couple of other groups I am in that have interest in the era and topics of VMC.

Robin P wrote: "Unfortunately, the number of participants in any group isn't reliable as an indication of interest. Many groups have thousands listed and maybe a dozen actually read or post comments.

Again, this ..."

Yes, I looked at a bunch of random early members & they had all left this site between 2011-13. & I can tell you it is a tedious waste of time to remove vanished members.

As far as lurkers go, I just hope they find something they enjoy in what they read!

Mela wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "...* I'll remove this if you want, Mela. :)"

No need. By the way, I am going to read Pym as a read with the Retro Reads Book Pool too ;-)"

I am so excited about finally getting to read a Pym! She is hard to get hold of over here. I won't want to defer my read of A Glass of Blessings longer than May though. :)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Unfortunately, the number of participants in any group isn't reliable as an indication of interest. Many groups have thousands listed and maybe a dozen actually read or post comment..."

I did that too! Quite a few people who joined during lockdown and haven't been active on the site since. Also a few who clearly only sporadically check the site. And some who've recently joined and finding their feet - as they're entitled to do.

Also noticed a few who are members of several groups, some much larger, but not contributing to those either. So didn't get the impression there was anything radically wrong with this group in comparison. Plus it was always going to be a fairly niche area of interest, and not sure why that should be an issue personally.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Mela wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "...* I'll remove this if you want, Mela. :)"

No need. By the way, I am going to read Pym as a read with the Retro Reads Book Pool too ;-)"

I am so exci..."

I really hope you enjoy it, I resisted Pym for ages. A friend bought me the hardback Virago edition of Excellent Women but I thought it sounded dull. But when I finally read it thought it was wonderful. So waspish and witty. There are interconnections between the novels that work a bit like Easter eggs, so we only find out what happened to the central character in Excellent Women in later life, in passing in another of the books. I posted a link elsewhere to an article listing the overlaps, I'll see if I can find it.

Here it is, Pym characters and which other novels they surface in:

https://tbr313.blogspot.com/p/blog-pa...

Thank you, I would love to read that article. :)

@Robin and Laura - you've misconstrued what I've said and taken it way out of context.

"Oh I don't want to be in the classroom" - is not what I said at all.

What I said was not negative - it was how I felt about what was being put forward.

Mela wrote: "1. I don't understand why there is a repeated belief that if a group has already read a book, nothing more can be done without an official re-read. After all, if someone wants to, they can read suc..."


@Mela - the VMC list that I follow has 717 books listed.

p.s I've only read 107 to date.

Cphe wrote: "@Robin and Laura - you've misconstrued what I've said and taken it way out of context.

"Oh I don't want to be in the classroom" - is not what I said at all.

What I said was not negative - it was ..."

I don't think you said anything out of line, the point was to say how we all honestly felt about certain suggestions, people can't then point the finger just because your feelings/thoughts don't accord with theirs. That would be out of line!!!

Actually it would be more than out of line, it would be bullying. And some of the comments made in this group in recent days have steered perilously close to that. Rather than hammering home points, it seems some people are intent on bludgeoning...