Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our July/August 23 buddy read of The Titian Committee the second in the Jonathan Argyll series, first published in 1991.

When Louise Masterson, a member of the famous Titian Committee, is found stabbed to death in a Venetian public garden, General Bottando of Rome's Art Theft Squad sends Flavia di Stefano to Venice to assist the local carabinieri. But it seems they don't want her help or expertise, and are convinced a Sicilian mugger is responsible for the killing. Flavia has other ideas and calls upon the services of English art historian Jonathan Argyll, who is in Venice to buy a picture from the Marchesa di Mulino's collection. When another member of the committee is found dead and the Marchesa's collection is stolen, Flavia and Argyll follow a tortuous trail to unearth the truth behind both the killings and the theft. In the process, not only do they stumble across another murder, but come close to unravelling a mystery from Titian's own life.

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

I was quite happy with this book. I found the plot easier to understand than the first book, maybe because it was less about the art and more about human failings. I'm getting quite attached to our three main characters and it is interesting to see Venice through eyes other than Donna Leon's.

I am so enjoying the chance to re-read a favourite book from a favourite series (not that I need to be prodded into re-reading them!)

I particularly enjoy the very slow-burn relationship - Jonathan's diffidence always running up against Flavia's obtuseness. As when she turns down his offer to see her back to her hotel, rightly assuming that he would only get them more lost, but not recognising the 'sub-text' behind the offer.

See, I was expecting more to happen in this one also - I really like the three main characters, but Jonathan and Flavia reminded me of two lost high school kids wandering lost in Venice- the scenery was the best part, but they seem to have zero chemistry. Seemed like more in the first book, and this one all they did was eat and get lost. Flavia did the interviews, and I felt like Piers didn’t know what to do with the two of them, so flew in the General with his budget concerns and fond glances at the “young lovers” for comic relief! First I pictured Jonathan as a bumbling but attractive Hugh Grant type, now he seems like a Jon Ronson, unintentionally funny but still bumbling guy.

I agree, the mystery part was clearly about human flaws in this one and easier to grasp, didn’t need a forensic accounting degree to see the fraud. But I feel like the series is still coalescing for me - it has good elements, but I read mysteries more than anything, and this one is still hazy but likable. With Brunetti or a Scotland Yard detective, we know where their authority, responsibility lie; here, I’m never quite sure of the role of the General and Flavia. He’s clearly a police veteran, but she’s always stressing she’s not with the police, and she dresses as a civilian as if to emphasize her “rebel” status - not surprising the Venice cop tried to give her the boot. All she can do is buzz around and ask questions, surprised suspects don’t tell her to bug off. Jonathan is clearly an amateur detective, but he seems so ineffective, I can’t take him seriously yet. Not quite sure yet what Pears is going for in the series. I think the 90s was when the Italian detective series were taking off, maybe he wanted a piece of that, but with the amateur/art expert angle? Lighter than Brunetti and the series set in Sicily (sorry, forgetting author’s name, I read the first book looong ago, always meant to go back to it!)

Iain Pears' indecision may show on the cover of my library edition from 1993, first US edition. It refers to the 'Flavia Di Stefano' series.

Sandy wrote: "Iain Pears' indecision may show on the cover of my library edition from 1993, first US edition. It refers to the 'Flavia Di Stefano' series."

That’s the one I had from my library- I must admit, the relationship between Flavia and the General seems more clearly defined, almost fatherly, definitely a mentor.

Susan in NC wrote: "First I pictured Jonathan as a bumbling but attractive Hugh Grant type, now he seems like a Jon Ronson, unintentionally funny but still bumbling guy."

I have no idea who Jon Ronson is, but my idea of Jonathan is more a cross between Hugh Laurie and Hugh Fraser (as a young Captain Hastings).

It is pure coincidence that there are three Hughs - or that they all have Scottish surnames, while being so very English!

Rosina wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "First I pictured Jonathan as a bumbling but attractive Hugh Grant type, now he seems like a Jon Ronson, unintentionally funny but still bumbling guy."

I have no idea who Jon Ro..."

Lol, good point! Jon Ronson is an English writer (The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, very sharp and insightful, but on chat shows comes across as perennially baffled by his fellow man! So y similar to the Laurie/Fraser mashup you mentioned.

I've finished this now - I enjoyed the characters but found the plot confusing, especially the long explanations at the end with the different killers. I also didn't see why Flavia lets van Heteren off (sorry, not sure if I've got his name right.)

Her reasons for wanting van Heteren to 'get away with it' include his victim's guilt for two other murders, and her sympathy with him as the only person who appreciated Louise.

But also because it was really up to the Venetian Police, not the Rome Art Squad, to solve murders in Venice, and she could justify it by not wanting to show Bovolo up any more ...

Thanks Rosin, that makes sense. I think the rivalry between the different police is an interesting aspect of the book.

It tends to worry me that the murderers who are let off by the detective at the end of so many books might go on to kill someone else - though I realise this is a lighter mystery and I'm probably not supposed to take it that seriously.

Judy wrote: "Thanks Rosin, that makes sense. I think the rivalry between the different police is an interesting aspect of the book.

It tends to worry me that the murderers who are let off by the detective at t..."

I don't like it usually either - and getting one back at the Venetian Police isn't a really good motive. But I think in this case it's unlikely that van Heteren will go on a murder spree.

I have just finished Murder In The Basement, and there I have less sympathy with the killer.

Rosina wrote: "Judy wrote: "Thanks Rosin, that makes sense. I think the rivalry between the different police is an interesting aspect of the book.

It tends to worry me that the murderers who are let off by the d..."

Entirely agree!

Thanks everyone, your points did help settle my feelings for this book and series. i really enjoyed the Venice setting, and I am enjoying the slow development of the relationship between the main characters. I also appreciate the art history as this is not an area in which I have much knowledge so fun to get this glimpse into the art world and academia. I always think it's interesting to get an outside perspective on these closed worlds like academia or the art market, and I loved the "glimpses" into a couple of Venetian houses and the constant getting lost. Makes me want to visit Venice again!

Are we continuing with the series as buddy reads? If so, I will hold back on my usual spree reading.

I believe that is the plan as long as there is interest and I am definitely interested and have obtained copies of some future books in the series.

I am so glad others are enjoying what has been one of my great pleasures for more than 30 years! I have re-read them so often, and lent them to friends.

Re-reading them is almost like going on holiday.

Yes, we will be carrying on with the buddy reads - I'm definitely up for more too. The next book is The Bernini Bust - I'll provisionally add that one for mid-September, but if that is too soon for people shout and we can shift it back :)

For me, this series is a cross between art history and mystery, learning as much about Renaissance painters as trying to solve crime. Reminds me of a book I loved as a kid, E.L. Kongigsburg's "The Second Mrs. Giaconda," about Leonardo's painting the Mona Lisa.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
I agree with comments above about the confusing relationship between Jonathan and Flavia, which seems more like a one way love affair, and trouble with the ending, letting the murderer go.
Pears doesn't give a foreigner's rose-colored glasses view of Venice the way Donna Leon does, instead showing the rivalry between Italian cities and region, Rome vs. Venice vs. Sicily, etc.
I look forward to reading The Bernini Bust, especially with the double entendre in the title.