Literally Dead Book Club discussion

My edition is 382 pages and chapter 21 ends on page 173 (including the typewritten section before chapter 22 begins).

Feel free and encouraged to spoil and discuss anything up until this point, but nothing beyond! There is a part 2 of this discussion for chapter 22 - 44.

Speaking of the story inside the story- are you enjoying it? Often times when there are dual timelines, perspectives, or stories running at the same time, readers will prefer one over the other. Is this true for you?

Tell us about the characters you have been introduced to. What is compelling about them?

What mystery has been introduced and do you have any theories of how they will turn out?

Compared to other Riley Sager books you have read, how is this one holding up so far?

This is my first Riley Sager book and I hope it's as good as I have heard.

I'm in a reading slump so I thought I'd get a head start in case it takes me forever and now I'm already halfway through! Pleasantly surprised by my progress, not so much by the book. It's my second Riley Sager after The House Across the Lake. I wasn't exactly in a hurry to pick up another after that but I was drawn to the Lizzie Borden aspect. So far I like it slightly more than THATL but that wasn't hard.

Did anyone else think Kit was a man until Mrs Baker says Miss? I don't know why or if I missed something, I don't think it was made clear until that point. It actually surprised me at first because I don't think Sager has ever written from a male POV lol.

I keep forgetting it's set in the 80s. None of it really feels distinctively like the 80s apart from no one having mobile phones, although I've read so many "oops there's conveniently no reception in this far off murder mansion" thrillers that it doesn't even feel unusual.

My wild early theory is that Mrs Baker is Virginia but I have no real explanation for anything. Maybe she killed the real Mrs Baker and then came back as her to control Lenora, maybe keeping her medicated so she can't move or speak? It also seems like the typed pages we are reading (which tbh don't sound like a 70-something person wrote them) are what she wrote for Mary and not Kit? It's all so sus and set up, within a day of Kit arriving Lenora ~trusts her~ and casually starts to confess all her secrets from decades ago, not buying it.

Story within a story almost always works for me and this is no exception. I really enjoyed that about Home Before Dark as well. I do like that the typed chapters are short. It makes it easier to go back and forth between narratives when we are getting little bits at a time.

So far I'm really liking the cast including Kit who seems a little mousy and naïve but I'm not annoyed at her...yet. All the other supporting characters have been interesting so far. Am I the only one that is picturing the old lady from Titanic as Lenora???

So far I'm most interested in whether this book is going to have actual paranormal events in it. Sager has done it before and I'm wondering if the paranormal bits are being used as a red herring or if there is actually going to be a ghosty twitst.

I really enjoyed Home Before Dark and The House Across the Lake. So far this one is pulling me in and if the end is pulled off well this might just be my favorite Sager book yet. I'm predicting it's going to be a 3.5 star for me but I'm hoping for a 4.

This is my first Riley Sager book and my first time joining in on the Literally Dead Book Club!

I have just made it to chapter twenty-two, and I am having such a good time with it so far!

I love the creepy vibes and this one definitely scores points for the blustery setting on the sea cliff. I'm enjoying the cast of characters and am intrigued by Carter the groundskeeper. I feel like his character will become more involved as the story progresses somehow. I love that I can envision the knarly knuckles of the old lady knocking against her chair/keyboard. This is the perfect book to pair with some stormy ambience.

The one thing I found pointless so far was the mention of Kenny at the beginning. What was the point in sleeping with a 20 year old? What did that do for the story? It just seemed kind of a random thing to include to me.

Shawna wrote: "This is my first Riley Sager book and my first time joining in on the Literally Dead Book Club!

I have just made it to chapter twenty-two, and I am having such a good time with it so far!

I love ..."

Welcome to the club!

Chapter 3, so far so good. little hints of what happened but nothing concrete. So far this is doing what I want from a book, keeping my interest peeked with little nuggets of the back story.

So far so good! I'm really enjoying it! This is giving me major Rebecca vibes! I like both stories. I can't help but wonder though, is the story within the story what she told Mary? What she's telling Kit? Or are they identical? Also, is any of what she's saying even true?

So far I think I'm most compelled by Mrs. Baker. I find it hard to believe that Mrs. Baker came back to Hope's End just to "devote her life to Lenora" or whatever. I really feel like she's involved in all this somehow. Also, I feel like Archie definitely is or was in love with Lenora at one point or another. She obviously didn't feel the same way (if her story is to be believed) so there could be something related to that too.

As for who committed the original murders, I don't know. I'm suspicious of Lenora but I don't totally buy that she did it. I think there's more to the story there (like Kit's mom's death). There's something really suspect about all this Virginia stuff too. I'll be honest I'm hoping it's not actually supernatural though. I want there to be a twist there. My wildest theory right now is that Lenora is actually Virginia or that Virginia is somehow alive too (kind of a The Boy type thing?). Mary, I don't know why but I really feel like Mrs. Baker killed her. Maybe she was involved in the original murders or felt some misguided protection for Lenora? And I also kind of feel like Kit may have left the medication out on purpose, even subconsciously.

Lastly, this is actually my first Riley Sager so I can't really say but after what I've read so far, I'd definitely like to read more of his books (just not Survive the Night apparently lol). So far I'm thinking this is a 4 or 5 if the ending is good.

I am really enjoying the book so far and if it keeps this pace I will be finished soon. I have my suspicions about who did the murders but I think Lenora is totally involved at least with the coverup. I can't wait to finish it.

I am invested. I’m here for this one.

Sager let me down so much with the last one, but this one is just my bread and butter. I’m getting Wuthering Heights feels, Ruth Ware Turn of the Key (and of course it’s original), a little bit of Simone St. James.

He has stepped it up. It’s like Gothic settings might be his forte. This feels like why I loved his books so much before his really rough flops. And I was so hesitant to pick this one up.

I will agree with someone above with the Kenny stuff - it added nothing. Maybe to show how desperate and low Kit was, but I didn’t need it. I also didn’t need the weird “oh he’s hot” about the groundskeeper. Those were the moments where I felt my annoyance with a female being written by Sager pop up.

However, I was able to overlook things because I need to know what is going on. It’s so good.

I just hope that the last half doesn’t have a cheap ending and it wraps up well.

Shawna wrote: "This is my first Riley Sager book and my first time joining in on the Literally Dead Book Club!

I have just made it to chapter twenty-two, and I am having such a good time with it so far!

I love ..." Welcome!

Dina wrote: "I'm in a reading slump so I thought I'd get a head start in case it takes me forever and now I'm already halfway through! Pleasantly surprised by my progress, not so much by the book. It's my secon..."
I like the Lizzie Borden aspect too. And I also keep forgetting it's set in the 80s.
Mrs Baker is very sus...I also don't trust Detective Vic.

Emily wrote: "Story within a story almost always works for me and this is no exception. I really enjoyed that about Home Before Dark as well. I do like that the typed chapters are short. It makes it easier to go..."
HAHA definitely picturing the old lady from Titanic.

This feels like it was written by a 13-year-old. After giving The House Across the Lake 1 star I was determined to never read Sager again. I'm only reading this because Lala made me. LOL

I like the dual timeline/perspective. I'm enjoying Lenora's perspective more than Kit. She's giving me Allie and Noah vibes from The Notebook.

I don't like the way Sager writes female characters. I don't know why he doesn't write anything with a male lead. It doesn't feel authentic. Kit is the typical "lost-girl-with-dead-mom-and-daddy-issues and it's irritating.

How does Carter know Lenora is harmless? Why is the mansion falling apart? Don't they have money?

Mrs Baker is very suspicious. Isn't she older than Lenora? If Lenora is in her 70s then how old is Mrs Baker?

I like the narrator doing Kit's voice on the audiobook, she sounds like Selena Gomez.

If I hear the rhyme one more time I'm done.

Where did Peter the portrait painter go?

Is there something in the blueberry muffins making Kit hallucinate?

Why does it have to be a secret that Lenora can type? Where is Mary's lockbox - that's where the pages are.

I'm doing a mix of audio and reading and I'm still at Chapter 15 but this is definitely giving me The Turn of the Screw / The Book of Cold Cases vibes. Also, I hope this leans more towards paranormal...

The amount of times I have had my jaw dropped. This is totally my type of book. I keep thinking it’s a little bit like ‘The Haunting of Hill House’. I don’t know if it’s just because it’s set in an old mansion with a mystery surrounding the events that happened there but I am loving this book as much as I loved that show. I just reached chapter 20 and I wouldn’t be surprised if I finished by the end of the day.

Do you think Lenora killed or family? Or Ricky? Or do you think it was someone else?

I am only 25 pages in, but this is giving me Delores Claiborne vibes.

I don't like this and I feel like I'm the only one. I've loved every single previous Riley Sager but this just feels like a story I've read a thousand times already. All the twists so far were cheap and unoriginal and I have some predictions for the future ones which, if I'm right, are also unoriginal and obvious. The setting doesn't feel like the 80s at all and honesly I don't get it what's the point of it being set in the past. As someone else here said, I do like the audiobook as well and the narrator really does sound like Selena Gomez, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

If this weren't a Riley Sager book, I probably would've dnfed by now but I trust my favorite author and I hope he'll manage to surprise me and amaze me but since everyone hates his unhinged and fun books and everyone loves this basic boring one, my hopes are dying a slow and painful death.

Just started the book today and this morning made it to page 106. So far, not so into the writing style & I'd hoped the house/the live person (Lenora) "haunting," it would be more mysterious and compelling, somehow? I guess I'm just not super into it yet, though it has been easy to read. We shall see. I'm holding out hope that the writing/narrative gets more interesting as I break through the exposition.

Right now I am enjoying both timelines. I am very curious to have answers to what really happened on the night of the Hope Family murders. I am also intrigued by the relationship Lenora and Kit are building because everyone in town thinks they are the same.
I am feeling for Kit right now. As someone who has lost a family member to cancer and watching the slow decline (My great-grandmother, who I was very close to, had liver cancer and sadly passed in Summer 2008), I can understand her motives and her complex emotions surrounding the death of her mother. I wonder if there is more to this story with Kit's mother than what we have been told thus far.
What really happened on the night of October 29, 1929, when the Hope family was killed? What is happening in the house, Hope's End, now? I have several thoughts on this:
1.) Virgina Hope is still alive and is actually the woman we have been introduced to as Lenora Hope. In this vein, her lack of mobility is due, not to a series of strokes, but to surviving being hung from a chandelier in the ballroom. Jury is still out on whether this was an attempt at murder or and attempted suicide. That would mean the real Lenora Hope would have to be someone else. If this is true, my bet is on Mrs. Baker as the real Lenora Hope.
2.) Ricardo "Ricky" Mayhew is a likely suspect, in my opinion. It is possible that Berniece, Ricky's wife was the servant Lenora caught her father with and when her and Ricky started getting close, she told him what she saw. To me this would explain the murders of Winston Evangline Hope at the hands of Ricky (I still don't have an explanation for Virgina, in this case, unless he killed her because of Lenora's general disdain for her). Lenora was spared BECAUSE she told Ricky about the affair.
3.) Mary Milton was the child of Lenora Hope and Ricky Mayhew. I have no evidence for this, but I just have a gut feeling. This is possibly why she was the first one to hear Lenora's story.
4.) Mrs. Baker and/or Archie is definitely hiding something. What I'm not sure, but something feels off. Especially since both were around at the time of the murders and have continued to stay on staff at Hope's End.

I've only read one other Riley Sager book before this, Final Girls, and I was bored out of my mind for the entirety of the read except for the last 50-100 pages. It was just barely interesting enough to keep me reading. This one I find far more interesting and compelling. This one is keeping my attention and keeping me turning pages. Sometimes I have to force myself to stop reading ( I actually had to force myself to stop at the end of chapter 21, so I could write my thoughts here).

This is my first Sager book, and I’ve got to admit that yes, the story is very captivating and easy and even fun to read, but there’s just an overall something I don’t quite like about it. I agree with Dina, I also thought Kit was a boy at first! The setup to everything is teasingly thorough, so I’ve enjoyed that. I love how it’s kind of Gothic without being actually Gothic. All the scenery in my head so far is very lovely and enjoyable, even the tilted scary rooms.

I love reading everyone’s theories here about who the murderer really is, especially the ones suggesting Lenora is Virginia and Mrs. Baker is Lenora. The only theory I have so far is that Virginia committed at least one of the murders, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten with it. I’m very interested to see how it all plays out!

Speaking of the story inside the story- are you enjoying it? Often times when there are dual timelines, perspectives, or stories running at the same time, readers will prefer one over the other. Is this true for you?
No preference.

Tell us about the characters you have been introduced to. What is compelling about them?
I don’t care for how Kit is written; her thoughts/decisions don’t feel believable to me and I find myself often annoyed with her. I don’t need a character to be likable, but if they’re not going to be likable the mystery should be written in a compelling way. That hasn’t been my experience so far; I'm hoping it starts to pick up from here on.

Lenora started telling Kit what happened really quickly. When she told Kit she would tell her because she trusts her, I laughed. She had not done anything to make Lenora think she would be trustworthy at that point. She only started telling Kit because the author needed her to, not because the action makes sense.

Honestly, none of the characters are compelling.

What mystery has been introduced and do you have any theories of how they will turn out?
If it weren’t for the book club I would have DNF’d by now; I’m not intrigued/invested. The biggest mystery introduced so far is the murder of Lenora’s family and honestly, I feel kind of “meh” about it.
That the client Kit was caring for before having to take the job at Hope’s End was her mother didn’t need to be a twist (the information didn't need to be withheld to later); it didn’t push the story forward. It felt cheap; like it was there just to be there.
That Mary hadn’t left without notice but was actually dead was not a surprise. I kept waiting for her body to be discovered.

Compared to other Riley Sager books you have read, how is this one holding up so far?
This is my first book by this author.

So far I'm really enjoying it and I'm intrigued by both stories. Also I'm liking the cast and Kit is a very likeable protagonist, compared to some of the last Riley Sager's books.
I don't think Lenora killed her family, because this would be very obvious. I believe Mrs Baker is Virginia but I don't know if she's the killer because I can not think what's her motive.
"Home Before Dark" is my favourite Riley Sager book, but this looks very promising.

p.s. I'm so glad I'm not the only one picturing the old lady from Titanic as Lenora! 😂

I'm really enjoying the book so far and feel like it's going to be a 5 star!

Both timelines are great and I don't prefer one over the other. I like how the book isn't swapping between the timelines for each chapter and we're getting more from the present and snippets from the past every few chapters.

Kit's an interesting character and I was shocked that the patient who passed away in her care was her mother (didn't see that coming!) I feel that on some level Kit wanted to ease her mother's suffering and possibly left the pills out knowing she would take them. This makes it sadder that people stopped being friends with Kit, as she would have felt very lonely after her mother's passing.
I also love the character of Lenora, especially in the present time. Having her communicate only through taps and the typewriter makes it feel creepier and builds more tension!

The mystery of the sister still being in the house is very intriguing. Was it actually her body found in 1929? Is there something supernatural happening, where Lenora and Virginia are living in the same body? When Kit hears sounds from Lenora's bedroom, is it Virginia taking over her body?

I think Mrs Baker had something to do with the murders in 1929. I also think Mrs Baker killed Mary and hid the suitcase.
Ricky was also introduced and I think he was murdered (not by Lenora).

I've only read Home Before Dark, which I really enjoyed, but I prefer The Only One Left. Home Before Dark had a slower start, whereas this one jumped into the story pretty quickly.
I enjoyed it when Lenora told Kit about her sister still being in the house and Kit immediately phoning her boss for a transfer, as there was no hanging around for her to solve a mystery when she felt something odd was occurring in the house!

This is my first book for Literally Dead BC, hello!

I've previously read The Last Time I Lied and Lock Every Door and gave both 4 stars.

I'm just finishing up Ch 21 and am totally invested in everything. I love the narrator, the characters, and the setting. Like others above, I suspect Mrs Baker might be Virginia and dangerous. I don't think there is anything supernatural happening in the house, but certainly don't trust any of the characters at this point. :)

I just finished up chapter 21, and I am hooked! I'm listening to this on audiobook, and I'm enjoying it thus far.

The story inside a story works for me. I like getting little bits and pieces of the past at a time, and it keeps the story moving forward. I definitely prefer Lenora's storyline at this point, because I'm invested in who killed the family. However, the current storyline is picking up speed with Kit finding Mary's body. Two whodunnits? in one book!

I don't have any real predictions so far, but I definitely don't trust Mrs. Baker. Something just seems off with her. I think she knows something or is involved in the family's murder somehow. I also think she's somehow involved in Mary's death.

This is my first Riley Sager novel, and I'm excited to finish it and explore more of his work.

I’m loving this thriller so far! I’ve read house across the lake and loved that one, so I’m excited to see how this one turns out.

Story within a story usually keeps me engaged- I’m enjoying the journey of unraveling the mysteries that happened at this mansion. I prefer Lenora’s point of view because we typically find out more information.

The groundskeeper and Mrs. baker seem a little sketchy to me. I think the groundskeepers cottage sounds lovely though. This book could also go in a paranormal direction, which I’d be cool with too.

Overall, feeling four or five star vibes

Dina wrote: "I'm in a reading slump so I thought I'd get a head start in case it takes me forever and now I'm already halfway through! Pleasantly surprised by my progress, not so much by the book. It's my secon..."

I totally thought Kit was a man at first too!! I don’t know why lol

My husband and I are listening to the audio book and we're a little more than halfway through. We're both enjoying it and wondering where it's going. It's the first Riley Sager book for both of us.

Lala wrote: "My edition is 382 pages and chapter 21 ends on page 173 (including the typewritten section before chapter 22 begins).

Feel free and encouraged to spoil and discuss anything up until this point, bu..."

I'm enjoying the book so far. I'm really interested in certain characters like Mrs. Baker. I'm really suspicious of her. I love a good twisty story and this book is certainly keeping my interest peeked with current narrative and the story within a story.

I'm new to the book club too and this is my first read here with the group! I'm loving this book....and I believe Mrs. Baker has been a very bad girl......lol. Can't wait to see how the story progresses!

I AM LOVING THIS BOOK!

I really don’t like Kit though. I don’t need a likable main character but her decisions don’t make sense and it takes me out of the story a bit.

I’m mostly suspicious of Carter. I have a lot of theories though and the most outlandish is that Lenora was/is a serial killer and since she can’t directly kill anymore, the typing and bonding is the game and Archie and/or Mrs Baker do the dirty work for her and throws victims off the cliff for her. Her bloodlust was discovered when she killed her family.

The more likely? Ricky did it out of revenge for Winston harming his wife OR because Lenora was threatened by her family OR because he wanted her to gain inheritance so they could run off together.

Virginia really seems like a bunch of red flags 🚩

This is my first Sager. The timeline is braided just fine for my taste. I’m a nurse, so those elements really intrigue me whether they’re correctly used or not, it’s still fun. I’m back and forth between 2 suspects (one old and one new), and Kit is mostly a well rounded character with believable conflicts. Hmmmm, it’s too early to tell how I feel about the story over all. There was a few bumps early on, but seems to be smoothing out a little more as we Segway into the 2nd half of the book.

This is my second Riley Sager book. I loved "Lock Every Door" but have heard some not so good things about most of his other books. Still, I'm enjoying this one so far. I just like the atmosphere and the mystery, and I don't mind the two timelines.

At the same time, I agree with some of the other opinions here that it doesn't necessarily feel distinctly 80s, especially due to the seeming timelessness/historicity of the setting.

I also just started suspecting that Mrs Baker might actually be Virginia, but as someone said before: no idea why.

And while I do love fantasy and all things paranormal, I kind of hope the story won't go in that direction. I do not need a murdering ghost at Hope's End, thank you very much!