Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is so special about faith?

Lately, I have been struggling with my religion. It gets harder and harder to call myself a "Christian." Faith just feels so meaningless.

Today, I decided to confront these struggles by openly discussing them in this blog post. What exactly makes me struggle in the first place?

Learn about these struggles in the link below:
https://lucylcarter.wixsite.com/websi...

I hope you all, Christians and non-Christians alike, enjoy this! Happy reading!

Lucy wrote: "Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is so special ab..."

Nice blog

First, I will say that I am an atheist and consider myself mostly as a humanist with an open mind, so that you will know where I come from. Lucy, I perfectly understand your dilemma about your Christian faith and what you say in your blog about your problems with the Bible. To be told that a single book, written by men (not by God) nearly 2,000 years ago, men who didn't know much if anything about the Universe around us, is the sole source of correct (and approved) knowledge for Christians is indeed enough to intellectually challenge any person who wishes to discuss and debate about our place in the Universe. When I was very young, I was at a school in Quebec run by Christian Brothers, whose conduct would have angered the Jesus they were preaching us to follow. That eventually turned me completely off religion and I then grew up as an atheist who prefers looking at the World with an open mind while hoping for Humanity to improve gradually by itself. I myself do my best to be tolerant, kind, compassionate and helpful to others.

As you said in your blog, it is hard to accept that a single book contains the only truth and that one has to believe it and follow it without question. It is made harder by the fact that those who preach actively about having to follow the Bible too often are the ones ready to violate its teachings. The Catholic Church has a long and despicable history of child and women abuse (in orphanages, 'residential schools' for Amerindians and houses for poor women in Ireland) that basically disqualifies it as a respectable institution. As a result, in the Province of Quebec, the Church had gone from all-powerful in the 1960s to moribund in the present.

In the USA, one could be easily excused about not wanting to follow the sermons and quasi-edicts of mega-church 'preachers' who are millionnaires (and some of whom even ask for donations from their parishioners so that they could buy for themselves a new private executive jet). We are very far from the preachings of Jesus about living modestly and sharing with others.

To you, Lucy, I would say that you have good reasons to question many of the things in the Bible: it simply doesn't reflect the world we live in presently and is asking for our total obedience and belief in it. Still, you can follow the basic preachings of Jesus about being kind, compassionate, good and considerate of others. If you do that (something you probably are already doing by yourself), then you can call yourself a good Christian, even if you have doubts about the Bible.

There are 5 major religions and philosophies in the world today: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism.

Each is absolutely certain that they know, through prayer, divine revelation, and/or study, that the others got it wrong.

Today, there are approximately 750 demonations and sects within Christianity alone. Each is absolutely certain, through prayer, divine revelation, and inspiration, that all the others got it wrong.

To base acceptance of any philosophy soley upon faith requires the willful suspension of the analytical thought process. It was this willingness to substitute faith in place of logic and research that inspired people to accept and support the horrendous activities directly associated with the Spanish Inquisition, the infamous Salem Witch Hunts. Nazism in Germany, Fascism in Italy, Communism in North Korea, and the horrific Terrorist Attacks throughout the world today.

Wanting something to be true does not make it true. Believing that something is reality does not make it real. Would it not be better to focus our efforts upon learning to accept and live in the world that exists instead of wasting precious time and resources seeking access to a non-existent alternative?

"It isin't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so."
Will Rogers (Humorist) 1879 - 1935

Nice Blog. I hope the following helps you with your struggle or at least alleviates it for a bit.
https://www.jjcunis.com/post/the-book...

The more viewpoints, the merrier ... to the open mind.

Hi, everyone! Thanks for responding to my blog post. (Sorry I could not get back to you all sooner).

I find what you all said very thought-provoking. I do agree that it is definitely very difficult to accept everything based on the basis of faith. Basing your belief on one book is very hard, and I think it probably gets even more challenging when you are part of a single denomination or affiliation. I have actually been raised by a nondenominational Christian family, and I used to go to a nondenominational church and youth group, so I think there is a bit more freedom when it comes to inquiry. It still gets hard to have the actual "faith," though.

I too am surprised at the horrific things that has been caused by faith and the suspension of the analytical thought process. I do try to remember, though, that there are also some good things that people have done in the name of their god. The church I went to had groups and did charity. There are even some authors who use the Bible to support certain social justice causes. (Think of Miles McPherson's The Third Option.)

It does get kind of frustrating, though, that you would be doing something, even a good thing, merely because the Bible says so. I mean, there is a big difference between saying that you should be empathetic because you know it's right, and saying you should be empathetic because the Bible says so. Big difference.

Perhaps books like Bible are there to reinforce these lessons.

I do agree that regardless of what your faith and religion is, though, you should still strive to be a rational, ethical human being who seeks happiness and fulfilment while contributing something to society. That should be something a person should always strive to do, regardless of whether or not a religious text says so.

I do still consider myself religious, and I do wish there was a way to reconcile my desire to find answers with my desire to still be a Christian (some of you may or may not agree with this, and that is okay. You are free to believe in whatever you please).

It really does get hard to maintain "faith."

Diane wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is ..."

Thanks, Diane! 👍👍👍

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Bernard Baruch (Financier/Statesman/Author) 1870 - 1965

I saw a “Jesus is my savior and Trump is my President” sign in my neighbor’s yard and decided I was done with religion.

When I read about a little Ukrainian girl in unicorn pajamas bleeding out in front of her parents after being caught in a Russian artillery barrage, it was such a relief not to have to justify that horror in terms of any faith.

I will never go back.

I appreciate this discussion so much, thank you all. I wrote a book about my struggle to discern whether to convert to Catholicism because I felt called to monastic life. Since publishing the book, so many people have shared with me their own struggle to understand the God question. It's a really common experience! O My God: An Un-Becoming Journey

As an addendum to message 4, I offer the following:

The majority of formal business courses include a section devoted to statistical analysis.

One of the key, and often re-enforced lessons within statistical analysis, is that, if everyone within a group believes that they got it right and everyone else got it wrong, it is highly probable that they all got it wrong.

Lucy wrote: "Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is so special ab..."

Hi Lucy,

It would be a mistake to imagine that the attitude of the Church to faith is shared by all Christians, or even endorsed by Jesus. The idea that faith is a replacement or substitute for knowledge is not part of the original teachings.

Faith is important, of course, but only as a method or tool. If we have knowledge then we do not need faith.

Perhaps you are a truth-seeker., and not merely a follower of second-hand dogma. If so I applaud you. If you want dogma then St. Paul is your man. If you want knowledge then Meister Eckhart is a better guide.

There is no reason Christians should not adopt the same view of faith as Buddhists, namely that it is vital for the acquisition of knowledge but no substitute for it, but the Church is opposed to this idea so most Christians (me too) are taught to believe that knowledge would be impossible and faith is the only option. This is very definitely not following in the footsteps of Jesus as he advises us to do, but most believers just swallow the Roman dogma and settle for ignorance.

I could happily rant for a few more pages but will spare you by ending here. If you really want to get to the bottom of the issue then you might like to read the ARC for my forthcoming book. Other than my publisher you'll be the first to do so.

I'd like to add: If, in your heart and mind, you have acquired the knowledge that God is real, and you are 100% certain of this, then you have overcome the pitfalls of faith and entered into the realm of knowledge. Fred Oliver - Author of "Dormant Angels".

Fred wrote: "I'd like to add: If, in your heart and mind, you have acquired the knowledge that God is real, and you are 100% certain of this, then you have overcome the pitfalls of faith and entered into the re..."
This seems necessarily true. But note that it doesn't state that it is possible to know God is real. I don't mean to start an argument. Just being careful.

Lucy wrote: "Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is so special ab..."

This is an issue on which Western Christianity is open to criticism. Faith is important if one cannot see the whole staircase, but unnecessary if one can. The problem here is that the Church teaches that faith is the best we can hope for, since the knowledge required for seeing the whole staircase is said to be beyond our reach. Those who seek that knowledge, the mystics and seers, are dismissed as heretics.

But to settle for faith is not at all the advice given by Jesus. Nor is it what Jesus did himself. He taught from knowledge, and there is no reason why we should not aspire to transcend faith for the acquisition of that very same knowledge.

The idea that Christianity is merely a faith renders it intellectually indefensible. misleads the faithful and does the teachings a terrible disservice. I sometimes wonder if it was St. Paul who created this problem, or perhaps Iranaeus, but my grasp of history is a bit woolly. It didn't seem to exist in the early Christian community.

Peter wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Martin Luther King once said, "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But what if we really want to see the entire staircase? What, exactly, is ..."

Fred wrote: "I'd like to add: If, in your heart and mind, you have acquired the knowledge that God is real, and you are 100% certain of this, then you have overcome the pitfalls of faith and entered into the re..."

Oh my gosh, Peter and Fred! I am so sorry I did not see and respond to your comments!!!

Last night, I published a blog post that basically provided an update about my struggles with faith. (You can find it on this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... )

Anyways, I agree that there is nothing wrong with seeking knowledge as a religious person. Faith and curiosity do not have to contradict one another, and as discussed in the blog post, I have learned to embrace my desire to actively seek actual REASONS to believe in God. Asking questions and finding answers would only strengthen the case for Christianity and make it easier to empathize with and reach out to skeptics. Honestly, I would argue that the field of apologetics would not exist had it not been for people who ask questions. As you guys said, there definitely should not be a stigma in the church against the process of asking questions or seeking knowledge. Being curious about one's own religion may only strengthen your enthusiasm for that religion.

Good luck with your seeking, Lucy. It seems me the question is not whether God exists or not, but exactly what we mean by 'existence' and 'God'. What are the chances that your conception of these things is correct?

At age twelve, sixty years ago now, I gave up on God and became an agnostic. However, I soon noticed that it's actually quite difficult to do this. There is an instinct or intuition we all have, I suspect, that tells us that although our idea of God may be muddled and misled, there is something within us that tells us it's not completely wrong.

These days I'm convinced that Meister Eckhart presents a correct view of Jesus and God, and in one of his German sermons he goes so far as to pledge his soul on it. This suggests he is not speaking from faith but from knowledge. Perhaps this is the reason why his sermons are often carefully ambiguous when he speaks of God, as if the truth is a lot more subtle than we usually imagine and the question of God's existence or non-existence does not have a simple answer.

But seek and ye shall find, they say, and I'm convinced this is the case.