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SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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What do you think is missing from the world of fantasy right now?
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That’s a good question - about finding fantasy lacking. I wonder if this comes down to sub-genre preferences within fantasy? Whenever I find myself let down by a book or series, it’s usually because I prefer to read urban or high fantasy and the book falls more into romantic fantasy or YA, etc.
Curious to see what others think.
1. How frequently...Usually about one a month or so.
2. What sub-genres...
I love high fantasy, but they require a lot of attention when they are good, so I usually gravitate toward urban or YA fantasy.
3. Are there any fantasy sub-genres...
I tend to read older books, so don't think my opinion applies.
4. What are some of your favourite...
Lord of the Rings, or anything Tolkien, Neil Gaiman's fantasy, The Witcher series, and a lot of YA fantasy series.
5. Are there any specific themes or elements you find lacking...
Again, I read so little that is contemporary.
6. What aspects of fantasy stories do you find most engaging?
An actual world being built, even when it isn't fully explained. I love when magic isn't too thoroughly explained. I am ok with suspending disbelief when an author has given me enough to do so.
7. Do you prefer standalone fantasy novels or series?
Both are fine if written well.
8. What are your thoughts on including romance...
While I don't seek out romance, it often appears, and as always, when it is well done, I'm fine with that.
9. How do you discover new fantasy books to read?
Usually friend's reviews or recommendations on GR.
10. Are there any tropes or clichés in fantasy...
Damsel in distress!
11. How long do you prefer fantasy novels to be?
When it's submersive, the longer the better! This applies to all genres for me.
12. How important is the presence of strong male/female...
Because fantasy is seeing a new world through the author's eyes, a strong lead is usually essential to get me into that world.
13. What role does magic play...
I love it! Fantasy almost always involves magic or mysticism in some form or another.
14. What are some of the most memorable or unique magical systems...
I love magic when a school or tutelage is involved. It's okay for a character to discover magical ability by chance, but it seems more real to me when it requires work on the part of the user.
15. What do you like the most when it comes to the pacing...
I like a lot of action which lends itself to a fast pace.
16. Do you follow your favourite Authors on social media (YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Goodreads, etc)?
Yes, lots!
17. What best describes you? Writer/Author/Reader?
Reader
18. What age range do you fall into?
Mid-50s
19. Would you be open to chatting about your answers more over email/discord?
I'm leaving this up because you say it's for personal use, but it does look suspiciously detailed for that.Everyone else, this has not been vetted by the mods, please don't give out any personal information!
1. How frequently do you read fantasy books?at least one a week
2. What sub-genres of fantasy do you enjoy the most?
most except for paranormal romances or cozy
3. Are there any fantasy sub-genres or themes you feel have been overlooked or underexplored in recent years?
no
4. What are some of your favourite fantasy books or series? Which series has left the most impact on you and raised the bar for any future fantasy books you read?
Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, etc
5. Are there any specific themes or elements you find lacking in the current fantasy book market? (i.e. stories that make you question reality like Inception & Interstellar but in a fantasy setting; climate & environmental changes; fantasy stories talking about the workings of the mind & the Universe, etc.)
no
6. What aspects of fantasy stories do you find most engaging?
a good plot
7. Do you prefer standalone fantasy novels or series?
either
8. What are your thoughts on including romance subplots in fantasy stories?
as long as it's not the main theme
9. How do you discover new fantasy books to read?
this board, browsing Amazon, boingboing and other blogs
10. Are there any tropes or clichés in fantasy that you feel are overused or need a fresh take?
good traditionally evil created (I blame Twilight)
11. How long do you prefer fantasy novels to be?
long enough
12. How important is the presence of strong male/female protagonists or diverse lead characters to you?
very
13. What role does magic play in your enjoyment of a fantasy story?
good or bad
14. What are some of the most memorable or unique magical systems you've encountered in fantasy books?
Nnedi Okorafor's Akata series
15. What do you like the most when it comes to the pacing of a fantasy story?
fast, but with good writing
16. Do you follow your favourite Authors on social media (YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Goodreads, etc)?
no
17. What best describes you? Writer/Author/Reader?
reader
18. What age range do you fall into?
senior
19. Would you be open to chatting about your answers more over email/discord?
no
1. How frequently do you read fantasy books? frequently2. What sub-genres of fantasy do you enjoy the most? fantasy-adventure, high fantasy, ones based on myths / fairy tales, YA / children's, cosy
3. Are there any fantasy sub-genres or themes you feel have been overlooked or underexplored in recent years? no
4. What are some of your favourite fantasy books or series? Which series has left the most impact on you and raised the bar for any future fantasy books you read? LOTR, Ranger's Apprentice (YA), Green Bone Saga (Fonda Lee), anything by Diana Wynne Jones, T. Kingfisher (Ursula Vernon), or Neil Gaiman
5. Are there any specific themes or elements you find lacking in the current fantasy book market? (i.e. stories that make you question reality like Inception & Interstellar but in a fantasy setting; climate & environmental changes; fantasy stories talking about the workings of the mind & the Universe, etc.) not really - there's a lot of variety out there
6. What aspects of fantasy stories do you find most engaging? I love well-developed characters, interesting worlds, non-typical protagonists, and unique magic systems
7. Do you prefer standalone fantasy novels or series? I like both
8. What are your thoughts on including romance subplots in fantasy stories? I don't mind as long as they are done well. I like it best when it is part of the story but not the whole story.
9. How do you discover new fantasy books to read? This group, Goodreads, recommendations from authors I follow online, SFF magazines and blogs
10. Are there any tropes or clichés in fantasy that you feel are overused or need a fresh take? characters letting out a breath that they didn't realize they had been holding 😂
11. How long do you prefer fantasy novels to be? I will read a door-stopper if it's good, but I prefer books in the 300-400 page range
12. How important is the presence of strong male/female protagonists or diverse lead characters to you? I appreciate diverse lead characters
13. What role does magic play in your enjoyment of a fantasy story? I like it if it's done well
14. What are some of the most memorable or unique magical systems you've encountered in fantasy books? I agree with CBR - Nnedi Okorafor's Nsibidi Scripts series, and also Fonda Lee's Green Bone Saga
15. What do you like the most when it comes to the pacing of a fantasy story? medium to fast paced
16. Do you follow your favourite Authors on social media (YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Goodreads, etc)? Yes
17. What best describes you? Writer/Author/Reader? Reader
18. What age range do you fall into? Gen X
19. Would you be open to chatting about your answers more over email/discord? No thanks
Anna wrote: "I'm leaving this up because you say it's for personal use, but it does look suspiciously detailed for that.Everyone else, this has not been vetted by the mods, please don't give out any personal ..."
Thank you Anna - it is for personal use. I have no use for this other than personal reflections and a foundation for a discussion with other fantasy readers who feel unsatisfied with the current state of what the book world has to offer. Can't help that I'm curious and like asking questions straight to the point - might be a deviation from my profession as a copywriter to have the habit of asking detailed questions!
To everyone else - thank you for your time and replying with your thoughts and opinions. I'm glad I am not alone and it's so cool to see that as a "group" we agree on similar things.
If you are interested in getting the summary of the results, we can chat over here or on discord (@speedbanan). What I've discovered so far is that everyone hates the Chosen One or Damsel in Distress tropes, majority would prefer a standalone novel as opposed to multi-tome series because these feel overused, and many feel that romance shouldn't be the main aspect of the plot (and smut was definitely very low on popularity list!! a pet peeve of mine - all the recent fantasy books having some spicy themes. Is that really necessary?!).
That's a food for thought I guess! 🤔
I'm not going to do the questions because, well, I don't want to but I'll address the topic generally. I read some fantasy, some SF and some SF that most call 'science fantasy' i.e. science fiction with elements that could be science but go beyond what we believe is possible (FTL being the easy example).
Much of my fantasy is dark but not grimdark - Stephen Blackmoore, Richard Kadrey, Cassandra Khaw for example. In general I avoid the more traditional epic fantasy works because with very few exceptions, they all feel like retreads. You know what I mean - "The Empire has been at peace for millennia, but a DARK POWER is rising..." or "Mousy Protagonist has been exiled but now must reclaim the throne to save the kingdom" or "Misunderstood Protagonist has no magic but through the power of Self Belief will discover that they're Very Special"
Ahem. I'm also leery of fantasy set in schools - it feels like a lot of those works still want to ride the HP wave. The Dark Academy subgenre just inverts this and.. meh. This is partly also due to the fact that my school days are far, far behind me so reading about the trials of students doesn't appeal.
Final in the "don't care" bucket are trilogies or longer that are written to be long, regardless of whether the story really needs 3+ books. Tell tale sign of this is a first book where nothing happens for 3/4 of the book, then it rushes to a 'conclusion' that sets up the next book. It's fine if a story really DOES need multiple volumes, but when the author deliberately pads things it's an exercise in marketing, not fiction.
What DO I like? A lot of urban fantasy. Standalone works or tightly plotted series usually not more than 3 books (best example: Harry Connelly's Great Way trilogy. Epic fantasy with zero fat). Non-western fantasy that truly brings me into a new world. Examples: Aliette de Bodard's Obsidian Blade Aztec trilogy, her Viet far future science fantasy, her post magic war tale of the Fallen in a devastate Paris. NK Jemisin's stuff, pretty much all of it. The aforementioned Blackmoore, Kadrey and Khaw. Oh and Nicola Griffith.
Basically, I want something that is truly new to me or at least in less well worn settings, that tries to do something new and not the Some Old Plot and something driven by a story the author has to tell, not by a marketing plan.
I'd like to see more stories about commoners, as opposed to nobles and royalty. Bored with stories about keeping or retaining a throne.
Brett wrote: "I'd like to see more stories about commoners, as opposed to nobles and royalty. Bored with stories about keeping or retaining a throne."Yep, this too. Or preventing wars.
But what I originally clicked this topic for, was that I need more stories with negative character arcs. That's not something unique to fantasy books, but I am craving books that have descents into madness, people that are driven crazy by their terrible pasts and traumatic experiences, and ultimately make the world a worse place, as a result from what they were taught or led to believe.
No happy endings. Instead, give me pain, give me grief and sorrow, and give me the reader's heartbreak of good and innocent people driven to violent and bloodthirsty madness! 😖
...or even a straight-up tragedy! Bad decisions that lead to terrible results, with no easy fixes or take-backs.
All the things I love about Macbeth! One bad decision after another in the worst way. I’ve been looking for a modern equivalent with all the witches, plotting and prophecy.
Beth wrote: "...or even a straight-up tragedy! Bad decisions that lead to terrible results, with no easy fixes or take-backs."You might love If We Were Villains and Young Mungo!
Thanks, Nicky. Reading the cover copy, If We Were Villains even has Shakespearean elements.
Beth wrote: "Thanks, Nicky. Reading the cover copy, If We Were Villains even has Shakespearean elements."Not just elements. It's one big Shakespeare reference. But even though I had not read any of his tragedies, I could still follow the story; the book was actually one of my 2023 favorites and I seem to remember I rated it 5 stars. 🤩
Some more modern classics could be Lord of the Flies by William Golding and A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess. A recent possibility could be Vicious by V.E. Schwab. Plenty of nasty characters, characters who make bad decisions, get worse as the book goes on, and I can't call any of the endings happy.
Any actual fantasies, though? Now I'm curious. This isn't a genre that all but requires a specific kind of resolution, like romance or mystery.
Beth wrote: "Any actual fantasies, though? Now I'm curious. This isn't a genre that all but requires a specific kind of resolution, like romance or mystery."I seem to remember that Seonag and the Seawolves is pretty grim. It's been a while since I read it, though, so I could be wrong.
The Faerie Hounds of York also has a heart-wrenching twist + ending.
She Who Became the Sun and its sequel He Who Drowned the World are dark and grim, with negative arcs for some characters
It sounds like you should read Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. It's full of woe and the kind of character arcs you crave.
On the topic of fantasy with characters making bad decisions with terrible results, we can go back to the Elric stories by Michael Moorcock that have been recently collected in Elric of Melniboné and Stormbringer. There are many Elric stories over many years, but these first two volumes of a new collection give a good sequence of events.
This is my personal opinion, but I think exploring other mythologies around the world. I'd like to see a fantasy setting based off of ancient Africa, or one that was influenced by the Americas prior to European contact.
Nathan wrote: "This is my personal opinion, but I think exploring other mythologies around the world. I'd like to see a fantasy setting based off of ancient Africa, or one that was influenced by the Americas prio..."Love to see this. If you've not, read the Obsidian and Blood trilogy by Aliette de Bodard which is set in Aztec times and in their myths. She also does a lot with Viet mythology settings. Not ancient stuff but rooted in that tradition.
Anna wrote: "I'm leaving this up because you say it's for personal use, but it does look suspiciously detailed for that.Everyone else, this has not been vetted by the mods, please don't give out any personal ..."
Excellent intervention, Anna. I wanted to participate in this survey, but reading your warning, I came back to my senses.
Beth wrote: "...or even a straight-up tragedy! Bad decisions that lead to terrible results, with no easy fixes or take-backs."Sarah wrote: "All the things I love about Macbeth! One bad decision after another in the worst way. I’ve been looking for a modern equivalent with all the witches, plotting and prophecy."
I have read few plays by Shakespeare, but Macbeth is what I like to return to. Shakespeare's tragedies have so many strong adventurous and magical elements that they suppress the feeling of sadness (for me) in them. Maybe Romeo and Juliet is sad though.
Luffy (Oda's Version) wrote: "Beth wrote: "...or even a straight-up tragedy! Bad decisions that lead to terrible results, with no easy fixes or take-backs."Sarah wrote: "All the things I love about Macbeth! One bad decision a..."
Jo Nesbo wrote a version of Macbeth that was quite interesting as was written as part of the Hogarth Shakespeare Project. It's a bit SR&F as well.
Macbeth by Jo Nesbø
Luffy (Oda's Version) wrote: "Beth wrote: "...or even a straight-up tragedy! Bad decisions that lead to terrible results, with no easy fixes or take-backs."Sarah wrote: "All the things I love about Macbeth! One bad decision a..."
MacBeth was always my favorite, too.
Agnes wrote: "Hey, all! I'd love to run a survey among all of us reader folk about what's missing from the world of fantasy right now.This is purely a personal survey to get the opinion of fellow fantasy reade..."
Hi, Agnes. I've just found this post and think it's a great idea to get some up-to-date information on readers' current expectations for the fantasy genre. No doubt I'll find some interesting views here.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Macbeth (other topics)Obsidian and Blood (other topics)
Elric of Melniboné (other topics)
Stormbringer (other topics)
She Who Became the Sun (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jo Nesbø (other topics)Aliette de Bodard (other topics)
Jo Nesbø (other topics)
Nnedi Okorafor (other topics)
This is purely a personal survey to get the opinion of fellow fantasy readers, so I hope this is allowed - if not, please remove. I also don't know how to create a poll so excuse the long post!
Too often I found myself utterly dissatisfied with fantasy books that didn't quite meet my expectations or overused some cliché themes, making me crave for something new and fresh.
Do you like the idea of sharing your feedback for the benefit of improving the reader's experience?
If so, here are my main questions:
1. How frequently do you read fantasy books?
2. What sub-genres of fantasy do you enjoy the most?
3. Are there any fantasy sub-genres or themes you feel have been overlooked or underexplored in recent years?
4. What are some of your favourite fantasy books or series? Which series has left the most impact on you and raised the bar for any future fantasy books you read?
5. Are there any specific themes or elements you find lacking in the current fantasy book market? (i.e. stories that make you question reality like Inception & Interstellar but in a fantasy setting; climate & environmental changes; fantasy stories talking about the workings of the mind & the Universe, etc.)
6. What aspects of fantasy stories do you find most engaging?
7. Do you prefer standalone fantasy novels or series?
8. What are your thoughts on including romance subplots in fantasy stories?
9. How do you discover new fantasy books to read?
10. Are there any tropes or clichés in fantasy that you feel are overused or need a fresh take?
11. How long do you prefer fantasy novels to be?
12. How important is the presence of strong male/female protagonists or diverse lead characters to you?
13. What role does magic play in your enjoyment of a fantasy story?
14. What are some of the most memorable or unique magical systems you've encountered in fantasy books?
15. What do you like the most when it comes to the pacing of a fantasy story?
16. Do you follow your favourite Authors on social media (YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Goodreads, etc)?
17. What best describes you? Writer/Author/Reader?
18. What age range do you fall into?
19. Would you be open to chatting about your answers more over email/discord?
This way we could all share our unique opinions and have an impact on reshaping the future of the fantasy world.
I'm very excited to see your opinions on what could be improved in the fantasy world right now, so if you have 5 minutes, go and take the survey now! 🧠
PS. For the record, I am a writer & aspiring author, yes, but more than that, I am an avid fantasy reader first and foremost. I genuinely created this survey out of the frustration of never finding exactly what I need in fantasy books. I know there are more people who feel like that out there, hence the survey. I believe that shaping the future of the book world is up to us, the readers, which is why I would love to start a discussion on this topic. Thank you for your time!