Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the thread for the September 2023 buddy read of A Fugue in Time by Rumer Godden

I usually think of Bach when I think of fugues. For anyone not musically inclined (and I include myself), this is the dictionary definition of fugue: a musical composition in which one or two themes are repeated or imitated by successively entering voices and contrapuntally developed in a continuous interweaving of the voice parts.

I'm at the beginning of the second chapter, and can see the interweaving of past and present, and even a few thoughts about the future. It's written in the present tense, but it's easy to be aware of what is present and what is past.

I'm interested in this one and in Rumer Godden, but I don't know if I can fit to it (I'm really trying to get through some of my final Bingo reads). But since it is only 200 pages, I'm really tempted!

Keep commenting, Connie, and maybe you can let me know if it is worth it :)

Happy Reading!

Connie - My edition has an author's note in the front in which she says "In A Fugue in Time I have taken the part of being up in the aeroplane, seeing three generations of family at once, all living in a house in London, their stories interweaving, as do themes in a fugue."

I am already amazed at how she can bounce in time and not leave me the least bit lost or confused. She says she made eight or nine tries before she got the method right--her efforts were certainly worth it.

I hope you do join us, Terris! You still have four months to play Bingo...plenty of time to fit this in. lol.

You've convinced me! It sounds so interesting -- and, of course, you're right -- I can always let Bingo go down to the wire!
Rumer Godden can't wait! ;)

P.S. I just checked it out from Hoopla! Can't wait to get started :)

Yippee! I am almost mesmerized by it so far...with my brain trying to fill in the intentional gaps.

Sara wrote: "Connie - My edition has an author's note in the front in which she says "In A Fugue in Time I have taken the part of being up in the aeroplane, seeing three generations of family at once, all livin..."

Thanks, Sara. I wish my copy had that author's note. It took reading the first chapter to figure out what she was doing! I feel like the home for those generations is also a character, and the plane tree seems important too.

Terris, I hope you will join us. I'm glad you found it on Hoopla.

This book was originally Faith, Marilyn, and Brian's suggestions so I hope they have time to start it in the coming week too.

Wiki has photos of plane trees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus

Good to know :)

I'm in for this too. But my copy is called Take Three Tenses: A Fugue in Time by Rumer Godden (1-Sep-1980) Paperback.

I am forcing myself to finish several books first, but I'll get to this one next week. So glad to see you all here!

I may try to join this one too. I've never read anything by this author, and I've heard a lot of good things about her recently.

I'm curious to see how she pulls it off. I do know about music, and if I'd ever thought of it before (which I haven't), I'd have come to the conclusion that a fugue is not possible in literature. In music, a fugue is normally several melodies played simultaneously, that nevertheless work together. It's hard to see how the different parts could happen simultaneously in literature, unless it was some sort of abstract poetry or something. But probably I'm just thinking too literally, and it refers to the fact that her different story lines switch back and forth quickly, rather than just happening in full one after another.

No, Wobbley, I don't think you are thinking too literally. I think she actually manages to have them happen simultaneously. It is very different from a normal back and forth. It is more how the mind thinks when we revert to a memory, for just a moment, that is so vivid we are there. The story is already interesting, but the process is fascinating. I am going a little slow, but I am hoping she can pull this off to the very end.

I'm starting tomorrow. I was going to start today but I think I should go out and buy some Dramamine first.

LOL @ Brian.

I have to finish a book then this one is next.

Sara wrote: "No, Wobbley, I don't think you are thinking too literally. I think she actually manages to have them happen simultaneously."

Well, I'm certainly intrigued! I'd like to finish with East of Eden first, but I'll try to get to this one soon after.

Kathleen wrote: "But my copy is called Take Three Tenses: A Fugue in Time by Rumer Godden (1-Sep-1980) Paperback. ..."

From Wikipedia:
"A Fugue in Time is a 1945 novel by the British writer Rumer Godden. In the United States it was published under the alternative title Take Three Tenses. The plot explores the history of a London house and the family who have lived in it for many decades."

Wikipedia also references the Film adaptation:
"It was made into a 1948 Hollywood film Enchantment directed by Irving Reis and starring David Niven, Teresa Wright and Evelyn Keyes."
This is the link to the IMDb movie listing: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040321/
This is the link to Wikipedia on the movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchant...


Connie wrote: "... this is the dictionary definition of fugue: a musical composition in which one or two themes are repeated or imitated by successively entering voices and contrapuntally developed in a continuous interweaving of the voice parts."

Seventy years old and I FINALLY learn what a fugue is. And as a bonus I learned my new word of the day/week/month: "contrapuntally."
Even when I don't care for the book itself, I always learn something of value during a CUOC Group/Buddy Read.

Thanks for the title explanation, Brian!

Connie and Wobbley, I also really appreciate your Fugue info. I think of Bach too, but not what all goes into making it so beautiful. This read sounds fascinating.

I was into the second section, Morning, when I decided I really had to have this book on Kindle so I could mark passages. Too much pausing to copy out quotations...so, I have started over.

I love the way she incorporates the house as a character and stresses the idea that the life lived inside it is all of a piece, very early on. (view spoiler)[ In the house the past is present. with a double meaning on the word "present", as we come to see Rolls living in and out of a time warp. He tried to remind himself that that was his true status: he was a tenant, an occupier--that is what all of us are. Anything we hold is on a lease--and a precious tenuous one.

The plane-tree represents what is permanent for me--something that outlives all the occupants of the house. And, the conversation between the existing house cat and the departed house dog is genius. (hide spoiler)]

I second Kathleen, in thanking Brian for the title explanation and meaning of the word ‘Fugue’ and now it seems the most perfect title given the multiple timelines. Sara, I have just started the second section, and I’m tempted to start over as well, as I’m sure to begin with I missed certain subtleties as I was just trying to get used to narrative multiple timeline techniques.

Megan wrote: "I second Kathleen, in thanking Brian for the title explanation and meaning of the word ‘Fugue’ "

Please note that it was Connie who supplied the meaning of "Fugue." I wasn't even sure how to spell it.
I will still have to look at the "Fugue" definition Connie supplied on a few more occasions before it will attach to my "not musically inclined" brain. When I get that down, I'll advance to tackling "contrapuntally."


Megan wrote: "and now it seems the most perfect title given the multiple timelines. "

I am 40 pages in and am finding the book's odd structure and timelines very rewarding but slower, reading. I see both A Fugue in Time and Take Three Tenses as appropriate titles.
A Fugue in Time is not only appropriate but has the advantage of being more poetic and medodic sounding and thus more pleasing to the ear.
Take Three Tenses is not only appropriate but has the advantage of being based on a phrase used several times in the novel. I can see why book marketers changed the title for the American audience, who I presume they considered to be more practical than poetic.
The marketers could be right. I have to admit to being frustrated by songs whose titles are not from the lyrics because I can never remember the song titles.
However, I prefer A Fugue in Time not only for its poetic and melodic sound but because Take Three Tenses reminds me too much of tongue twisters from my youthful speech therapy days.

The re-reading is proving helpful. I can already sense that I have slowed my pace and that I am picking up on subtle things I scooted over before. Probably one of those books that you need to read through and then immediately start over.

I also think A Fugue in Time is a lovely title that makes you want to read it, but I wonder if there was the problem of many people not knowing what a fugue is and not having Connie handy to put them on the right track. I know Godden felt it was necessary to include the author's note in the 1972 edition and explain exactly what she was going for.

I found this fascinating article by another writer who has attempted a fugue in writing. It does not reference this work, but I found it very pertinent nonetheless. https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2...

For those of you who do not have the author's note included in the edition you are reading, I have posted it below. It does not contain any spoilers, but I have put it in spoilers to conserve space.

(view spoiler)[This novel was the first in which I used a theme that has always intrigued me, Dunne’s Experiment With Time, i.e., that time is not consecutive, divided into past, present and future, but that these are all co-existent if only we could see it: if you are in a boat on a river you can only see the stretch on which your boat is travelling – a picnic party on the bank perhaps: a kingfisher diving. What you traversed before, passing willows, a barge tied up, cows in a field, as far as you are concerned, is gone; what lies around the next corner – a lock working, a man fishing – is hidden but, were you up in an aeroplane, you could see all these at once – the willows, the barge, the cows, the picnic party, the diving kingfisher, the lock, the man fishing.

In a Fugue in Time I have taken the part of being up in the aeroplane, seeing three generations of a family at once, all living in a house in London, their stories interweaving, as do themes in a fugue. The difficulty was, of course, not to confuse the reader and it was not until the eighth or ninth try that I found the right way; that it was right seems shown by the fact that, with few exceptions, neither critics nor readers have noticed it, only what Chaucer calls “the thinne subtil kinittinges of thinges”. Some years later I used the same technique with five generations, not three, living in a country house, China Court.

September 1975 R.G.
(hide spoiler)]

Very interesting Author's Note that, unlike many Introductions, is important to read beforehand. It also makes me both curious and anxious about our future read of China Court After juggling three bowling pins (generations) in this novel, I hope I will have become skilled enough to handle the added two bowling pins (generations) of China Court.
I am surprised that the Author's Note was NOT in my Virago Modern Classic edition.

Finished the Morning section. The stream of consciousness flowing between time frames reminds me of my experience reading the first section of Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury, the Benjy section. As that was over 50 years ago, it seems appropriate that I intertwine my recollections of that reading experience with my comments on my current reading experience of The Fugue of Time - but, don't worry, I won't.
This is much more modernistic in style than I had anticipated. Whew.

Sara wrote: "For those of you who do not have the author's note included in the edition you are reading, I have posted it below. It does not contain any spoilers, but I have put it in spoilers to conserve space..."

This is SO helpful--thank you, Sara. I love the comparison of time to a river, and the image of viewing it from the air to see the whole trajectory. I will try to keep this in mind when I begin reading!

Thank you for the author's note, Sara. I'm finding it an unusual, but enjoyable, way of reading a book.

The first character we meet, General Sir Roland Ironmonger Dane, goes by three names in the book, depending on his age. He is Roly as a baby and a little boy, Rollo as a schoolboy and young man, and Rolls as a general and old man. Just seeing his name helps place us in the time periods of his life. The author introduces the three names on pg 6, but I really did not realize the significance until later.

Kathleen wrote: "This is SO helpful--thank you, Sara. I love the comparison of time to a river, and the image of viewing it from the air to see the whole trajectory. I will try to keep this in mind when I begin reading!"

So glad it is helpful, Kathleen. I thought it started me out on the journey with the right themes in mind and sort of understanding what she was going for.

Connie - I found that to be a clever device to move you from time frame to time frame, and also the presence of certain other characters - Griselda, Lark, Silena - also helps transition.

So true, Sara. I'm getting very curious about Lark's life.

Sara wrote: "For those of you who do not have the author's note included in the edition you are reading, I have posted it below. It does not contain any spoilers, but I have put it in spoilers to conserve space..."

I only got halfway through the first chapter (enough to start to get interested!) then I had a couple other books that had to be finished! And, because I want to give this book my full attention, I am waiting until I can really concentrate on it. So it will be a few more days till I can do that. But everyone's comments are getting me excited!

Regarding the author's note that you posted (and thanks for that!), I thought it was interesting in how the "river" comments go along with a book I'm reading right now by William Kent Krueger The River We Remember. He makes a "Dear Reader" note right at the beginning:
"Our lives and the lives of those we love merge to create a river whose current carries us forward from our beginning to our end. Because we are only one part of the whole, the river each of us remembers is different, and there are many versions of the stories we tell about our past."
That sounds so much like what she was saying! I wonder if he ever read Rumer Godden?! ;)

I will join this a little late,

Wow, Terris, it does sound as if Krueger is reaching for the same theme Godden expresses. I have not read anything by him in ages, but I am adding this one immediately.

It comes out on Tuesday! :)

Connie wrote: "The first character we meet, General Sir Roland Ironmonger Dane, goes by three names in the book, depending on his age. He is

Roly as a baby and a little boy,
Rollo as a schoolboy and young man, and
Rolls as a general and old man.

Just seeing his name helps place us in the time periods of his life. The author introduces the three names on pg 6, but I really did not realize the significance until later. "

Just bumping up a slightly edited version of Connie's advice as it is key for following the time shifts and the sooner a reader recalls Godden's clues to the time frame she's in the easier the read will be. It took Connie's comment for me to fully catch on and it is greatly appreciated.

I'm just a little into "Morning." I love how she centers us first in the house itself. The house is like the focal point, the point of convergence, or maybe like the spot dancers look to when spinning--the grounding thing.

Kathleen wrote: "I'm just a little into "Morning." I love how she centers us first in the house itself. The house is like the focal point, the point of convergence, or maybe like the spot dancers look to when spinn..."

That's a great way of describing the house, Kathleen. Babies are born, people die or move away, new servants arrive, other people come to visit, and bombs drop from the sky, but the house keeps standing to shelter them.

Sara wrote: "Yippee! I am almost mesmerized by it so far...with my brain trying to fill in the intentional gaps."

I'm through "Morning" now, and color me mesmerized too! And as you say about the gaps, Sara, I love the way we get a hint: a name, like Lark, Grizel, and then we wonder and then down the road the pictures is filled in. I am absolutely loving this.

I am jealous that you all are reading this -- I have one more book that must be finished. Then I hope to get into it by this weekend! You are certainly sparking my interest ;)

I finished the Noon chapter last night. That was a rough chapter. I was thinking later that when Griselda let loose on Eye, his response reminded me of the Barbie movie. (view spoiler)[Be satisfied with your societal mandated role. It's enough. (hide spoiler)]

Finished. Solid 4 stars. This was my third Godden book (The Greengage Summer and Black Narcissus) and I look forward to the upcoming buddy reads.

Marilyn wrote: "I finished the Noon chapter last night. That was a rough chapter. I was thinking later that when Griselda let loose on Eye, his response reminded me of the Barbie movie. [spoilers removed]"

I liked how Rumer Godden developed the character of Griselda. (view spoiler)[ She was a Victorian woman trapped by her role of wife and mother of a large family, but wanting to see the world beyond her family. Some of the other women were also talented females restrained by the expectations of society. (hide spoiler)]

Marilyn wrote: "Finished. Solid 4 stars. This was my third Godden book (The Greengage Summer and Black Narcissus) and I look forward to the upcoming buddy reads."

Ditto from me to each of your statements.
My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I'm reading this very slowly, so will be here awhile, but glad to see positive words from those who finished!

Does anyone know why this book doesn't appear on Godden's GR page? https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

This is my third book of hers, and they seem so completely different!

Kathleen wrote: "Does anyone know why this book doesn't appear on Godden's GR page? https://www.goodrea..."

I noticed that for the first time last night. My edition reported 292 ratings so it should have been listed right after Breakfast with the Nikolides.

It could be because when you search for "A Fugue in Time" Goodreads lists Take Three Tenses: A Fugue in Time by Macmillan Publishing as the primary edition and the book is then listed under that author/company's link. You then get to the editions written by Rumer Godden through the "other editions" link attached to the edition listed as authored by Macmillan Publishing.

Kathleen wrote: "I'm reading this very slowly, so will be here awhile, but glad to see positive words from those who finished!

Does anyone know why this book doesn't appear on Godden's GR page? https://www.goodrea..."

When I searched for "Take Three Tenses" and "A Fugue in Time" the only edition that came up had "Macmillan Publishing" as the author. When you click on it, in the More Editions section, the books with Rumer Godden as the author appear.

Thanks Brian and Marilyn--I think you're both right, that that's the issue.

I have finished the book and enjoyed it immensely. The writing choice might have made it 1)hard to follow and 2)hard to relate to characters, but for me it did neither. I like the way she weaves Rolls and the house into every aspect of the novel, tying everything together. I'm looking forward to some discussion of specifics when others are ready.

I am just getting into this book. I am about 25% into it, and am really enjoying the writing! I am so glad for some of the earlier discussion about how time goes back and forth -- it really keeps a reader on their toes! Knowing the name distinctions of "Roly, Rollo, and Rolls" has helped me the most. So, thanks for that, Connie!

I may be moving through it a little slowly (because I'm reading other things at the same time!), but I find that when I am reading it, I want to read every word (I'm not skimming). I don't want to miss anything.
I'm enjoying it a lot :)

I just finished the book. I agree with basically everything that's been said here. The writing style is innovative, and yet it works. The book does slowly become mesmerizing. I felt is was often pervaded with a sense of melancholy. Whenever I thought it was almost going too far in a direction (too sappy in a scene between lovers, for instance), it pulled back in time. I really enjoyed this one!

Glad you got to and are enjoying it Terris, and that it worked for you, Wobbley!

I've finished, and have to say, right now it's rivaling Wuthering Heights as my favorite book, and WH has had that spot for decades. I can't thank you all enough for setting up this buddy read! I never would have heard of it otherwise.

Like Sara said above, I'm looking forward to discussing the specifics when everyone is ready.