SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hello all!
I'm on a quest for great world-building with a combination of fantastic craft (prose/style control). So far I have been enamored and in awe of China Mieville's Ba-Slag world (read everything he wrote). Ishiguro, Stephenson, Gaiman, Bradbury... and the forgotten Walter M .Miller Jr. Who else? Let's talk!

Brandon Sanderson is often touted as one of the best worldbuilders out there.

Sanderson. I will look him up. You see, the issue I've been running into on this self-imposed quest, is that I find a lot of one or the other - mostly extraordinary world-building ... but the style/craft of prose is so lacking... or cliche or... hmmmmphf. Example: someone mentioned Gene Wolfe's New Sun series. Said it was brilliant, difficult, amazing world-building... master, etc... Rubbing hands together, bought it and delighted began to read. World-Building, dying sun, medieval/future mashup... all good. THE WRITING WAS TERRIBLE. I mean... it was really bad, filled with telling us everything, nonsensical scenes or retelling scenes, etc.... Anyway, I love this stuff, and think the two are there (like China Mieville) and I'm sure others. I will definitely check out Sanderson. Thank you.

Well... that's a different question entirely. I happen to think that Sanderson's writing and storytelling is wonderful. The Way of Kings is phenomenally good. IMO. But preferences like that are very subjective. So YMMV.

Maybe start with one of his standalone novels, like Warbreaker or Elantris, to see if his style is for you. Though the The Final Empire / Mistborn trilogy is great. (I will admit that it took me several tries to get into this, but once I did, I was hooked.)

Excellent. I will definitely. Heck him out. Thanks!

Please edit your post. It's against the group's rules to mention your own work (books, blogs, websites, etc.) outside of the Authors' folder. Thanks!

Malazan series by Erikson is good in both respects
Patrick Rothfuss is an excellent writer.

I liked some of Sanderson's books, but The Way of Kings wasn't my cup of tea.

Agree about Rothfuss! The Lies of Locke Lamora had excellent worldbuilding, characterization and delivery.

Michelle wrote: "Agree about Rothfuss! The Lies of Locke Lamora had excellent worldbuilding, characterization and delivery."

as does the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust

These are excellent. What would be fun is to share moments are quotes from our favorites to show why you like it.

So, what I was thinking was something like:
China Mieville’s The Scar - when Bellis come to Armada for the first time OR when they arrive at Machinery Beach where the Mosquito people live. This, to me, is just breathtaking in the prose/style AND the world building. Who else has an example of some scene where they love both the style and the world building?

I think the Malazan series would fit here too. Not sure, though, but I've read the first 2 books.

Thinking a lot about the process of world-building recently. A cool way to think about it is from thoughts on Math/Algebra: if Zero is the present, then -1 and 1 (on a linear line becomes relative coordinates corresponding to pat and present. In other words, the further one gets from zero (the absolute present), the more the world-building demand becomes. If we then use that same linear graph and designate them “our world” and “other world”, you can see that those same points from zero/present become even more demanding.

The “other world” graph become all world-building becomes entire world-building at every point (think Tolkien or Herbert, L’Engle, etc….)

The “our world” graph becomes “historical world-building” in the -1, -2, etc… (say historical research needed to create verisimilitude) and present world-building at zero (say replicating our world now). Anything that would be 1,2,3,4 on that line (near and distant future) would be sci-fi/fantasy world building.

Probably thinking about this too much, but would love to further the conversation.

From a world-building perspective (and in reference to your graph), I suspect it's harder to be realistic the closer you are to 0+ because the author is dealing with what the reader knows is already true. Therefore the invention of new technology, for example, requires a more disciplined imaginative leap than a book set 100 or a 1000 years from now.

As for Sanderson, I'm finally reading my first ever of his (The Frugal Wizard's Guide to Medieval England) and I'm not impressed. The world-building is fine and the story seems to be bubbling along OK but one thing is driving me to distraction. His constant wisecracking is utterly lame and not once have I laughed or even cracked a smile. So many modern writers (Scalzi does it) employ this snide snarky style which is intended to be funny but just falls flat. The book would be so much better without it.

frugal wizard is a bad example of Sanderson, I did not like it either. He's definitely very big in the world building space though--he even has a podcast about it where he talks with other modern authors about this topic.

I think Vonda McIntyre's Dreamsnake was surprisingly good, and Fifth Season by Jemisin definitely deserves a shout out for being incredible from concept to execution

A great example of great world-building couple with gorgeous prose and amazingly deep charachters/characterization is the Realm of the Elderlings (starting with the Farseer Trilogy and first book The Assassin’s Apprentice) series by Robin Hobb.

Allison wrote: "frugal wizard is a bad example of Sanderson, I did not like it either. He's definitely very big in the world building space though--he even has a podcast about it where he talks with other modern a..."

I guessed that must be the case given his massive rep. Was it the lame wisecracking that turned you off also?

I despair sometimes... they think they're being clever but they come across like a teenager with attitude. And not a very smart teenager...

ugh the ratings thing drove me nuts!

Allison wrote: "ugh the ratings thing drove me nuts!"

Same "joke" 200 times and not once funny...

If we are talking about world-building in fantasy, I would regard Lord of the Rings as the benchmark. This offers a complete world, with its own history and mythology. It's not necessary to include all of the material Christopher Tolkien has subsequently published. The original trilogy with its end notes is more than sufficient. I can remember reading it (and re-reading it) as a child and the "voice" of the book would reverberate in my head.

Colin wrote: "The original trilogy with its end notes is more than sufficient."

I'll go even further and say the end notes aren't necessary. I'll go turn in my nerd card now.

Sanderson does well at worldbuilding but his prose is nothing extraordinary. I'd say the same for Jemisin.

Le Guin does well at both. I'll keep thinking about this, because surely there are more than these very typical standbys.