The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of June 1st through June 7th we are reading CHAPTER(S) 24 and 25: Heart Attack and Suez - pages 663 - 704 of the book - Eisenhower in War and Peace by Jean Edward Smith.

The eighteenth week's reading assignment is:

Week Eighteen -> CHAPTER(S) Twenty Four and Twenty Five: Heart Attack and Suez - pages 663 - 704 - (June 1, 2015 - June 7, 2015)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on February 2nd

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.

This weekly thread will be opened up on June 1st.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderator Teri.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Jean Edward Smith

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction Thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed. Since we are discussing the same time period and the same people will be discussed in this book as in the Liberation Trilogy - please utilize those three glossary parts. They will be very helpful to you and will provide a wealth of knowledge.

This is the glossary for this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

However, we have an in depth glossary for the Second World War period:

Glossary - Part One - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Glossary - Part Two - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Glossary - Part Three - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Jean Edward Smith

Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?

I will modify these directives as we go along but for now utilize the information here.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

Everyone, for the week of June 1st, 2015 to June 7th, 2015, we are reading Chapter(s) Twenty Four and Twenty Five.

The eighteenth week’s reading assignment is:

Week Eighteen - June 1st, 2015 to June 7th, 2015
Chapter(s) Twenty Four and Twenty Five: Twenty Four and Twenty Five: Heart Attack and Suez 663 - 704

Chapter Overview and Summary

Chapter 24: Heart Attack

Eisenhower attends a summit in Geneva. Ike lays out his “Open Skies” proposal. Eisenhower goes to Denver for a lengthy summer vacation amid pressure from Republicans to announce whether he would seek re-election. While on vacation, Ike seems to be ill with indigestion but is eventually hospitalized with a heart attack. Eisenhower announces his intention to run for reelection.

Misfortune, and particularly the misfortune of illness, brings to all of us an understanding of how good people are.
— Dwight D. Eisenhower, November 11, 1955

Chapter 25: Suez

Tensions brew in the Middle East. Eisenhower suffers a massive ileitis attack, sending him back to the hospital and surgery.

Foster, you tell them, Goddamnit, that we’re going to apply sanctions, we’re going to the United Nations, we’re going to do everything that there is so we can stop this thing.
— Eisenhower to John Foster Dulles, October 29, 1956

Folks, we are kicking off the eighteenth week of the Presidential Series book discussion on former President Dwight David Eisenhower - we welcome you to this discussion which will last for a few months. There is no rush and we are happy to have all of you with us. I look forward to reading your posts in the months ahead.

I think the big thing that these two chapters bring up is the question of a president's health affecting his work. In the first chapter, the country was lucky in that when Ike had his heart attack there weren't any serious crises going on, so Ike could spend a great deal of time recovering. I bet if something similar were to happen today, the President would be asked to temporarily step down or the Vice President and the Cabinet would declare him unfit to serve under the provisions of the XXV amendment to the Constitution. Incidentally, it should be noted that the XXV amendment would not be ratified for another 12 years after Ike's heart attack. Does anyone know about the history of the XXV amendment who can speak to why it wasn't ratified at the same time as the XXII amendment?

But the country wasn't so lucky when Ike suffered suffered from ileitis afterwards and had to undergo surgery. As Smith notes on pages 692-694, Ike's judgement was impaired and Sec. Dulles was allowed to have a free hand at foreign policy. It's Sec. Dulles' fault that funding for the Aswan Dam was cancelled, which triggered Egypt's seizure of the Suez Canal, thus beginning that incredibly avoidable crisis. A president and his Secretary of State should try to avoid crisis at all costs, but because he couldn't understand or appreciate the posture of neutrals like Nasser in Egypt or India's Nehru, Sec. Dulles failed in this task. He and his brother at the CIA, Allen Dulles, were terrible picks and always went of the reservation when Ike wasn't around.

It is quite clear that Eisenhower was groomed well for the Presidency. One would have thought that a military general may be lacking by not having been a US Senator, or Representative, or in political office previously. I think the fact that he didn't come from the political process was refreshing. That is why his common sense approach resonated well with the American people and contributed to his popularity. He was a honest and ethical US President.

Christopher wrote: "I think the big thing that these two chapters bring up is the question of a president's health affecting his work. In the first chapter, the country was lucky in that when Ike had his heart attack..."

I had to re-read the 25th Amendment (cannot remember when first read it) and I think that Ike's surgery would not have triggered action by either the cabinet or Congress.

I agree about the Dulles boys - you could have added an "r" to what you called them and been correct also I think.

These two chapters were really interesting and revealing.

Interesting that Ike seems to think he "was the only choice" - not to run for the office but to run/manage the office.

I think one of his biggest errors was his failure to ask Nixon to step down for the second term. Even though some felt Nixon was a "link to the old guard of the party" - because Ike was popular enough I think at that time to have won without RN.

But we saw in this chapter Ike's ability to step up to the plate with the international summit - to come up with the Open Skies - to see the opportunity when it appeared and his reluctance to go to the summit initially I accept as wise and probably he come there much stronger than the others for that reason.

I had forgotten or maybe never really understood the concept of the Bahgdad Pact but I well appreciated Smith's presentation. (I note that patriot Kermit Roosevelt is working along again here).

I wonder here again if Ike's experience and knowledge of Europe and Asia made him overconfident about the Mid-East. He certainly seems to have been surprised and to have dropped the ball even before his surgery.

I do believe that JF Dulles failure to fully inform Ike on the Aswan was insubordination and Ike should have canned him (but Obama didn't can McChrystal who deserved it for much less) (sticking in one of my disappointments with our sitting President).

I get to think that military officers are formally prepared for their jobs and understand their responsibilities and this was what Ike experienced for most of his professional career. Ike would not have kept a Nixon in WW II but let it ride in DC - maybe that was a necessary change in Washington but not for Ike I think when he ran for re-election. This reflects back a bit on Brian's msg 6 - Ike was well prepared but unlike his military he did not know enough politicians to pick the right ones and he was not a general anymore who did not have to worry smooch about public opinion.

True, Vincent, and even during his general days, he learned politics the hard way also. I cannot think of a President that hasn't faced political challenges, or had harmonious relationships with all branches of government. Lincoln is a model of governing with courage and conviction.

Indeed, Ike had to learn Washington politics, although he had a good grounding in WWII. However, you could argue that generalship does not prepare you fully for presidential politics. It is its own animal, that's for sure.