Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is thread for the November 2023 buddy read of Kingfishers Catch Fire.

The title of the Rumer Godden's novel comes from the first phrase of a poem by Gerald Manley Hopkins:

As Kingfishers Catch Fire

As kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame;
As tumbled over rim in roundy wells
Stones ring; like each tucked string tells, each hung bell's
Bow swung finds tongue to fling out broad its name;
Each mortal thing does one thing and the same:
Deals out that being indoors each one dwells;
Selves — goes itself; myself it speaks and spells,
Crying Whát I dó is me: for that I came.

I say móre: the just man justices;
Keeps grace: thát keeps all his goings graces;
Acts in God's eye what in God's eye he is —
Chríst — for Christ plays in ten thousand places,
Lovely in limbs, and lovely in eyes not his
To the Father through the features of men's faces

Kingfishers are also on a lamp that Sophie treasures. This website has some beautiful photos of kingfishers found in India:

https://www.natureinfocus.in/animals/...

Kashmir is located in the northernmost region of the Indian subcontinent with views of two mountain ranges, the Great Himalayas and the Pir Panjal Range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir

Thanks so much for the kingfisher site. I had no idea there was so much variety among them. It would be worth a trip to India just to see them!

Hopkins so often dwells on both nature and religion. It would be interesting to see how Godden incorporates this into her novel.

Thanks for the info Connie and for getting the thread off to a good start. I will begin the book soon. I like that we switch settings from England to India for this one.

I recently posted my thoughts of the movie version of A Fugue in Time on that thread, but I'll repost them here in spoilers to help anyone who wants to refocus their brains back on Godden. The movie, while lacking the haunting melancholic depth of the novel, was still satisfying and helped remind me of that pleasingly distinctive reading experience.
(view spoiler)[ I finally did get around to watching the 1948 movie version of A Fugue in Time called “Enchantment” through streaming on Amazon Prime. It wasn’t bad though, as expected, fairly melodramatic.
Some comments:
- They emphasized and added more scenes on the two romances between Roly and Lark and Pax with Grizel. They portrayed it as two parallel love stories at two time periods and constantly flipped between the two time periods, just more obviously and less abruptly than in the book. But I did like one time shift that had Roly walking down the street to the house and morphing into Pax walking down the street to the house..
- They start and end the movie with the house itself narrating and talking about the people living in it. This device worked for me as it let viewers know that the house was a character even though there wasn’t any more such narration in between.
- The acting was fine though, like the movie, melodramatic. David Niven as Roly did well even in old-age makeup. Farley Granger was also fine as Pax. The female romantic leads were weaker. Evelyn Keyes was just OK as Grizel – I never attached to her like I did the book character. Teresa Wright was overly sappy and girly as Lark lacking the elegance that I presumed the book-Lark possessed to make her so enticing to Roly, Pelham and the Marchese.
But Jayne Meadows was great and surprisingly perfect as Selina. Knowing her only as comedian and TV host Steve Allen’s wife and actress in her 1960s and 1970s TV work that IMDb calls “making cameo appearances…usually playing elegant sophisticates,” I did not see how that would fit Selina. But IMDb also reports that during the 1940s and early 50s: “her icy glare and imposing stance frequently made her the perfect manipulating ‘other woman.’” That’s what she brought to this role and it made for a great version of Selina.
- They did change the ending. I can’t say I liked it as it went against what I thought was a theme of the book but it probably was a more cinematic ending.
- There is no mention of Verity. There are only two time periods. (hide spoiler)]

I won't be starting this one until mid-month, but looking forward to it.

I'm enjoying the setting in India, although the main characters are in an English family. I'm three chapters into the book, and can already anticipate conflict between the Indians and the English. Kingfishers Catch Fire is supposed to be the most autobiographical of Rumer Godden's novels.

Brian, thanks for your review of the movie version of A Fugue in Time. I'm glad they made it obvious that the house was such an important character.

Sara, I'll be reading this slowly since I'm also reading several other books now.

I took time out and watched the movie today, Brian. I enjoyed it and thought it was quite well done for its period and the difficulty of converting this particular book to film. Thanks so much for the info!

I started this a few days ago and have finished Chapter 10 or about 37% of the book.

I had a little difficulty getting into the book at the start. The shift in timeframes and story settings, which served the flowing stream of consciousness style so well in A Fugue in Time, only served to confuse things in the more straightforward storytelling style here. I still found myself confused over Sophie's motivations, including why she went to Kashmir. I had to go back and review some previous sections to help clarify things at least somewhat.

While the book felt muddled and unclear during the first three chapters, that was really only the background phase. The storytelling became clearer once the main storyline started in Chapter IV describing Sophie's rental of Dilkhush and the beginning of her life there and dealings with the locals over improvements and shopping.

I will start in a couple of days.

FINISHED THE BOOK
I finished a few days ago. Just a few comments while I wait for others to finish:

- I thought Godden's wrote with clear and effectively descriptive prose. I especially enjoyed her use of color imagery. The prose kept the book always flowing even when the storyline or characters didn't grab me.
- The storytelling was inconsistent but eventually made for a good story. While the first half was a fairly mundane slice of life story enhanced by its exotic setting, the second half did build to some very dramatic climactic events. Despite the drama, though, I never felt fully engaged in the story.
- This is because I had difficulty relating to any of the characters. While the low ethics and untruthfulness of the local village population made it tough for me to feel any sympathy for them, I recognize their main purpose was to serve as a foil for Sophie rather than to evoke my sympathy.
- The big problem is that I found Sophie herself difficult to empathize with. She's likable enough but her stubbornness and misplaced confidence had her inaccurately assessing situations and stubbornly acting on these assessments, resulting in the consistent waste of her money and the ending climactic events.
- This type of story has more impact on the reader when you can identify with and feel empathy for the 'damsel in distress.' This is harder to do when the damsel puts herself in the distressful situation.
I'm curious about how others feel about Sophie.

Brian, I'm only on Chapter 8 but I'm already questioning Sophie's decisions. I'll be reading more of the book this week now that I've finished books for my real life book clubs.

I'm about half way through the book. I learned in my first Rumer Godden book, The Greengage Summer, that she writes child characters very well. Teresa saw the world as it really was and knew her mother did not. Yet, she was still a vulnerable child. At this point I am most concerned about her.

I finished the book earlier this week. I enjoyed Rumer Godden's lovely descriptions of Kashmir, especially the musical gardens at Nishat in Chapter 11. I found that the book started slowly, but picked up in the second half when Sophie and Teresa each were in dangerous situations.

It's difficult when people of two very different cultures interact, especially when some people are living in poverty. The locals took advantage of Sophie's ignorance, overcharged her for everything, stole from the house, and did shoddy work. It was frustrating to see Sophie making so many unwise decisions, and not listening to advice. So while I enjoyed some aspects of the book, I felt no bond with Sophie as a character.

I'm glad I read the book since it gave some insight into Rumer Godden's background, but I enjoyed her other books more.

My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Connie wrote: "I enjoyed Rumer Godden's lovely descriptions of Kashmir... I found that the book started slowly, but picked up in the second half when Sophie and Teresa each were in dangerous situations... It was frustrating to see Sophie making so many unwise decisions, and not listening to advice. So while I enjoyed some aspects of the book, I felt no bond with Sophie as a character. "

That pretty much sums up my feelings too. I do credit Godden for creating a stand-in figure in Sophie who, while fairly likeable, isn't overly-sympathetic or heroic.

My frustration with Sophie was that she attributed her situation to a love potion and Sultan wanting to be liked without seeing her role in the mistakes. I fear she will move on and repeat the mistakes.

Do you think Godden wanted us to feel empathy towards Sophie? I credit Godden with writing a story that I wanted to finish when I didn't really like most of the characters.

Marilyn wrote: "Do you think Godden wanted us to feel empathy towards Sophie? ."

I have no knowledge of Godden's actual intent but my feeling was that we were supposed to empathize with Sophie. I presume Godden would feel it natural for readers to identify with Sophie for several reasons.
- Sophie's status as an English speaking person operating in a foreign culture, the proverbial fish out of water, and we would think about how we would feel in such an environment;
- Sophie's status as a single woman, be it separated or widowed, raising two children alone; and
- Sophie's overall relatively pleasant and non-standoffish personality

However, Godden also presented these aspects of Sophie that worked against the empathy:
- it was Sophie's own choice to live in the area of India and to live so isolated from other England-based residents;
- Sophie was made her own, often wrong choices in how to deal with the native residents, often arrogantly ignoring counter advice

I thought Godden added these flaws to Sophie to make her a more rounded, full and human creation, and also to serve as catalysts to the dramatic end-of-story events. I credit her for this. However, I do think she intended that the reader would still retain empathy for Sophie despite the flaws. I feel that having some degree of Sophie-empathy is needed for the reader to experience the emotional impact of and fully enjoy this "damsel (and family) in distress" story. But, for me, the flaws were dominant enough for me to blame her for endangering her children, develop a certain resentment toward her, and detach myself from any empathy I may have developed for her.

Marilyn wrote: "My frustration with Sophie was that she attributed her situation to a love potion and Sultan wanting to be liked without seeing her role in the mistakes. I fear she will move on and repeat the mist..."

Sophie was intelligent in some ways, creative, and wanted to mix with all types of people. So it was unfortunate that she could not see that she was being cheated by the workmen, and the animosity between the Hindus and the Muslims. I think a reader loses empathy for characters that don't learn from their mistakes.

I felt empathy for Teresa, and I wonder how she is going to fare with their next move. She's at an age where she needs a good education and some friends. She felt like an outsider in Kashmir.

Marilyn wrote: "Do you think Godden wanted us to feel empathy towards Sophie?"
The tale is largely autobiographical so perhaps yes, Godden wants the reader to feel empathy towards Sophie.

I would read this book for the descriptions alone. I finally stopped and googled the Mogul Gardens of Kashmir...her descriptions are perfect.

Also, wanted to see a chinar tree:



Heavenly.

I have finished the novel and now gone back to read all the erudite comments in the thread. Sophie is a complicated character (which I like), arrogant in her own way while telling herself she is not. She creates all the troubles, but I was pleased that she took responsibility in the end.

By the time we come to the event with Teresa, I had lost all sympathy for her. You could feel the tension building, and ignoring the feelings and concerns of your young daughter is a bit unforgivable. She was almost choosing to be naive.

I could not help wondering if she has learned enough from this experience to serve her well going forward, or if she would forget it all as soon as she was settled again. But, I did think it would be a major mistake to try to live the rest of her life pretending to be someone she is not.

Besides Teresa, the person I felt the most sympathy for was Nabir. His life was turned upside-down and he suffered a great deal from all quarters. He was the only one of the Kashmiris who seemed a full-fledged individual.

Sara wrote: "Besides Teresa, the person I felt the most sympathy for was Nabir. His life was turned upside-down and he suffered a great deal from all quarters. He was the only one of the Kashmiris who seemed a full-fledged individual. "

I hadn't posted my review before because I summarized most of it in a previous post in this thread. But my post didn't mention Nabir and my review barely does. However, in my Word document, I found this passage I did not include in my posted review solely for space reasons - I do go on at times:

"Caretaker Nabir Dar was the most sympathetic as he was the most truthful and was hampered in his relations with Sophie by being too stubborn and sullen."

See, that's a lot of words to just basically give a thumbs up to what Sara said.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

One of the things I liked about Nabir was that, despite having the most legitimate reasons to feel no sympathy for Sophie, he did. She got more from him than she deserved, including forgiveness.