Play Book Tag discussion

Books With Friends

Teams comprise 5 players each, give or take 1 person. Teams may be formed by five people agreeing to play together, or PBT administrators will help solo players form a team, each as close to 5 people as we can.

Each month the tag is announced. Each team must "spell" the tag (or the first word of the tag if the tag name is composed of two words) using either the first letter of the title (Excluding leading articles: A, An, The), or the first initial of the author's last name. The team decides among themselves who will read for which letters. Bonus points awarded for reading a book that also fits the tag.
Example "DRAGONS"

D- Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury (read by player 1)
R – The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule (read by player 2)
A - Assembly by Natasha Brown (read by player 3)
G – Hunger by Roxanne Gay (read by player 3)
O – August is a Wicked Month by Edna O’Brien (read by player 4)
N – His Majesty’s Dragon by Novik (bonus pts for fitting the tag) (read by player 5)
S – Still Alice by Lisa Genova (read by player 2)

Team Play:

You may form your own teams of 4-6 players. Please submit your team by January 1 (though teams may join later if they wish). Each month, half the team needs to participate in the reading.

If you prefer for us to place you on a team, please PM me with your Goodreads ID, and we'll do our best to get you onto a team.

If any team member fails to participate, without notice or routinely, they may be dropped from the team and replaced with a reserve recruit at the discretion of remaining members of the team. The plan should be shared in advance with an administrator. People can sign up to be reserves now if they wish.

Points and Standings

Team and individual standings will be posted monthly based on total points earned in game. All books for this challenge must match a letter as described above in order to count toward earning points.

Game points (not participation points) are allocated each month as follows:

- To each team that finishes the task described above - 20 points. Note: No additional points - individual or team - will be awarded if the task is not completed
- For the first team to finish the task each month - 5 points.
- For the team that reads the most books that fit the challenge (matching the letters of the tag) and the tag (tagged 5x or more) - 15 points
- For the team that reads the most books that simply match the letters of the tag (title or author last name) - 5 points
- For the team with the most helpful spirit and sportsmanship each month. To get these points, your team must be nominated by someone who is in the game, but not on your team. The nominations will be private. If there are no nominees then a team will be drawn at random to receive these points - 10 points

Individual Play - **Optional**

Individual play will be optional and must be tracked individually in the space dedicated for that purpose.

- Individual points will be allocated to the person who is voted by their own team members as the most helpful to achieving the team objectives (Nominations need to be put forward by the 1st of the following month, each month. We can't "make" team members do this, so the 10 points may not always be allocated. Nominations will be accepted privately by me.) - 10 pts
- Individuals who read books that fit the monthly tag and address a letter in the tag. - 10 pts/book
- Each month that an individual participates by completing a book toward their team goal (reads a book that fits the challenge) will earn individual points - 2 points in month 1, 4 points in month 2, 6 points in month 3, 8 points in month 4, and continuing in that vein at 2 incremental points per month. Months must be sequential, or the scoring starts over with 2 points.

Teams and individuals will be asked to assist with their own scoring, but admins will be doing routine and random checks on all scores.

At year end, game points will be tallied and champions (team and individual) declared.

Schedule

15th of the month - Tag voting begins
21st or 22nd of the month - Tag announced and reading may begin, but reviews may not be posted or the reading will not count.
1st of the month following the announcement - Reviews may be posted.
End of the month - Reviews must be completed for books for the challenge.

So there is a slight overlap period where you may be reading for the next word, but all of the scoring is going to take place on a month basis as per usual. Reviews should be posted during the month of the tag. To get extra points for matching the tag, the book must be tagged with the tag you are attempting to spell regardless of when the reading began.

All tracking should be done based on the month.

Please ask clarifying questions/make suggestions below

I am so looking forward to this!

What isn't clear to me is how the actual reading dovetails with the timing of the winning tag vote aannouncement and tag reviews being due before next tag announcement.

Using DRAGONS from November as example of my understanding ...

Tag voting was Oct 15 - 20. On Oct. 21 DRAGONS tag was announced. All can start reading for their assigned letter -- on Oct. 21, with review to be posted before Nov. 21st when new tag, up for vote from Nov 15 to 20, is announced. Is that correct on the spelling part?

What I am not sure about is matching tag reads. Since monthly tag reads normally run first to last day of month - DRAGONS was Nov 1 - 30 - i read here that if the book you are using to spell also matches the tag - say I read Dragonflight for the D in Dragons - i would need to wait until after Nov 1 to read it to earn that bonus, but finish and review it in just 3 weeks, by Nov. 20.

Yay ... I was in another challenge group that used to play this ... with a new word every WEEK! Crazy but fun. I'm looking forward to being on a team and having an entire month to get our word spelled!

on these

- For the team that reads the most books that fit the tag (minimum of 5 tags by non game participants) - 15 points
- For the team that reads the most books period - 5 points

Does that mean that we would get game points for books that aren't part of the tag? For example, if the tag is short such as Food, we might get 4 books read quickly, then if we read more books with the tag, we get points for them?

Theresa wrote: "I am so looking forward to this!

What isn't clear to me is how the actual reading dovetails with the timing of the winning tag vote aannouncement and tag reviews being due before next tag announc..."

I am going to publish a very specific schedule about what I need to see and when . . .thank you for raising this point. I will pull this together shortly and add it to the first post (rules).

To answer your question, Robin, teams can continue to read books after they have spelled the word to earn extra points. But the books still need to fit the confines of the challenge.

So to use your example of FOOD. After you've spelled the word, you can still read extra books that have F or O or O or D to start the title or the author's last name. If your team reads the most books overall that fit the challenge, you'll get the extra 5 points.

Then, if those books that fit the challenge are also tagged 5x or more as food (by people not competing in the challenge), that's a separate tally, and the team that has completed the most of those books can earn the 15 points extra.

Am I making that more clear?

Makes it much more clear Anita, I had the same question, thank you!

I have a question. Can team members read the same book?

In the FOOD example, there would be two O books. Do they need to be two different books?

Sue wrote: "I have a question. Can team members read the same book?

In the FOOD example, there would be two O books. Do they need to be two different books?"

Okay this is a great question. I hadn't thought about it. But my gut says that within a given month, all team members need to read different books. However, across the year, a book may be read by a team member.

So in your example, no, two team members may not read the same book for O's if they want the book to count for points.

But if one month is FOOD and the next month is POLAND, a (different) team member could read a book that was read for the O in food.

Thanks for a great question that was bound to come up.

Anita wrote: "To answer your question, Robin, teams can continue to read books after they have spelled the word to earn extra points. But the books still need to fit the confines of the challenge.

So to use you..."

Great, thank you, and that makes a lot of sense.

Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be an exception that X be somewhere in the first word of the title or the author's last name. Yes, there are a few books and authors that start with X, but very few. Or would it just happen that nobody gets all the points that month, since everyone is working under the same constraint and anyone who does find an appropriate option will be rewarded?

Of course, some of us might start voting against tags with weird letters!

Robin P wrote: "Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be an exception that X be somewhere in the first word of the ti..."

Another great point, but I think it's just going to go down exactly as you pointed out:

Or would it just happen that nobody gets all the points that month, since everyone is working under the same constraint and anyone who does find an appropriate option will be rewarded?

And while I don't think the voting will normally be unduly impacted, this might be one case where it is.

Anita wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be an exception that X be somewhere in the firs..."

😆😆-oh Anita-

Very ambitious teams might vote in the other direction though, for tags with challenging letters with confidence that they’ll be able to complete them! Strategies can definitely go either direction.

Anita - Could you share examples of what the mods envisioned with the “most helpful spirit and sportsmanship” rule? Could this include sharing ideas for difficult letters like ‘X’ with the whole group? This would be another interesting way to be competitive.

Nicole wrote: "Very ambitious teams might vote in the other direction though, for tags with challenging letters with confidence that they’ll be able to complete them! Strategies can definitely go either direction."

Absolutely correct!

Nicole wrote: "Anita - Could you share examples of what the mods envisioned with the “most helpful spirit and sportsmanship” rule? Could this include sharing ideas for difficult letters like ‘X’ with the whole gr..."

It's hard for me to give examples, but I know it when I see it. Sometimes it's what people are NOT doing that qualifies, lol.

It could definitely include helping people who are struggling in any way - - trouble with how to track, trouble finding something to read, trouble understanding a rule, anything where an admin would normally need to step in, but members know just as much and can keep things moving forward in a positive direction.

Honestly, most people do a great job of this without a reward so I expect the judging will be difficult for me and the other admins.

Anita said trouble understanding a rule,

Hope you are see that team-😅😅

Joanne wrote: "Anita wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be an exception that X be somewhe..."

Here's a good one for X: X by Sue Grafton. I never made it this far in the series.

NancyJ wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Anita wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be an exception th..."

I loved that series! The main character (Kinsey) was forever eating egg salad sandwiches. I always had to have at least one of those along with every book.

Sue wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Anita wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Obviously, some letters are easier to find than others, but what if , Heaven forbid, there is an X in the tag word? Maybe there could be ..."

My mom and I both used to read this series. I bought them for her, and I read them when she was done. Now I have a feeling where I might find them.

There's at least one book for every letter of the alphabet - except "Z". Sadly the author passed away after finishing "Y".

Adore that series! I have been reading the last half of the alphabet out of order after a long hiatus from the series, and read X a few years ago. It was wonderful!

There is a very prolific ebook author, Diane Xarissa, who has one series that goes from a to z, plus a few other series.

One of my favorite mystery series is the Inspector Chen by Qiu Xiaolong

What happens if we have a player who want to join while the game is in progress? Just wondering how this will be handled.

Joy D wrote: "What happens if we have a player who want to join while the game is in progress? Just wondering how this will be handled."

It seems to me that in the History challenge the teams were set and nobody entered during the year (unless somebody dropped out and get replaced?) I joined in the middle of 2020 when Poll Ballot was happening and I don't think there was any way to start participating (I couldn't ever figure it out anyway!)

Joy D wrote: "What happens if we have a player who want to join while the game is in progress? Just wondering how this will be handled."

Anita mentioned a plan for team changes. It helps that most of the scoring is done monthly.

Note: I updated the individual scoring. I didn't quite realize how out of reach the game would become with the way I structured it. So there's still an advantage if you read every month, and it's still significant - - but it's not completely insurmountable.

Robin P wrote: "Joy D wrote: "What happens if we have a player who want to join while the game is in progress? Just wondering how this will be handled."

It seems to me that in the History challenge the teams were..."

Generally we are always open to new additions to a challenge, if there is room. If a team loses a member, we may have a waiting list for people who want to play and ask a team if they would be willing to have a new addition. Or, if we get to four on the waiting list, a team can join late. We will just try to accommodate as best we can.

Anita wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Joy D wrote: "What happens if we have a player who want to join while the game is in progress? Just wondering how this will be handled."

It seems to me that in the History challeng..."

Oh, great ideas! I didn't mean to seem like new people wouldn't be welcome, thanks for thinking of a couple of options.

Anita wrote: "To answer your question, Robin, teams can continue to read books after they have spelled the word to earn extra points. But the books still need to fit the confines of the challenge.

So to use you..."

Just to be sure I understand... the entire word has to spelled ... i.e. all reviews posted by thecteam members ... BEFORE extra books can be claimed.

E.g. Mbrs 1, 3 and 4 have read and posted for FOD. But Mbr 4 hasn't yet finished his O book. So, Mbr 1 cannot yet get extra credit for another F book.

Do I have that correct?

Another question regarding when we start reading. You said we can start reading as soon as the tag is announced, but we do not post until the month with that tag begins. Eg tag for Jan is announced on Dec 21..."CRAZY" I begin reading my Z book on Dec 21 AND it fhas the requisite 5 people tagging it Crazy. If i finish it on Dec 29, I have to wait until Jan 1 to post it. BUT do I still the credit for a book matching the tag ? Since I actually read itcthe mo th BEFORE the month for that tag.

Not explaining that very well, I know.

Book Concierge wrote: "Anita wrote: "To answer your question, Robin, teams can continue to read books after they have spelled the word to earn extra points. But the books still need to fit the confines of the challenge.
..."

So if the word doesn't get spelled in the allotted time frame, no extra books can or will be counted.

But, it's fine for readers to move ahead on reading books before the word is spelled. But no claims may be made for these extra books until the word is completed. And if the word is not completed, the extra books will not count.

Does that make sense/clarify enough?

Book Concierge wrote: "Another question regarding when we start reading. You said we can start reading as soon as the tag is announced, but we do not post until the month with that tag begins. Eg tag for Jan is announced..."

Yes, even if you finish your Z book (in your example) on the 29th, if the book fits the tag of CRAZY, it will count as the book matching the tag even though the tag of Crazy is officially our tag on the 1st of the month.

Thanks for a quick response, Anita

Anita - a clarification.

Rules say Reviews must be posted before the next tag is announced.. This only refers to books spelling the word completely one time, correct? Example - If word in January is FRENCH, the team reading for the letters has to post the reviews of the complete spelling of the word FRENCH by January 20/21 when new tag announced.

But Rules also say under Schedule: End of the month - Reviews must be completed for books for the challenge. This only refers to any extra books individuals read matching tag - whether additional for a letter or just matching tag, correct? Using example of FRENCH, I read Cheri by Collette for the letter C - tag matches and spelling obligation done. I then go on to read 3 more books that match letters - some match tags some don't, and 2 more books that don't match letters but match tags. Those are my extra books read and can be completed and reviewed by last day of month to count. Correct?

Theresa wrote: "Anita - a clarification.

Rules say Reviews must be posted before the next tag is announced.. This only refers to books spelling the word completely one time, correct? Example - If word in January..."

Thanks for pointing out the inconsistencies!

My initial conception of the game changed when I started to really think through the schedule.

The rules posted under Schedule are what applies in terms of timing. I deleted the other references to timing.

Basically, if you want a book to count for the challenge - - to match the tag letters or to match the tag itself - the review must be posted by the end of the month.

Sorry for the confusion. Let me know if I haven't clarified the situation adequately.

Anita wrote: "Theresa wrote: "Anita - a clarification.

Rules say Reviews must be posted before the next tag is announced.. This only refers to books spelling the word completely one time, correct? Example - If..."

Nope, that makes far more sense - and one less date to worry about.

Thanks! I'm finally at the stage of wrapping my arms around this challenge and how it will work.

I admit, I haven’t even looked at this yet, so I admit, I am just commenting and not actually asking for clarification. But on a missive that seem to have glossed by, I am guessing I better understand this before we vote for the January tag? My goal is to read this when I’m doing my research for January tags. Check in with my trailblazer friends to see how we’re figuring this out.

I'm back with one more clarification - for now:

We can start reading for the challenge once tag is announced but not post reviews until 1st of month. Does that early start to reading include reading extra books matching tag but not necessarily a letter? and Extra reads for letters?

Anita wrote: "

Thanks Anita, If I understand correctly, you just took some pressure off our teams by easing the task deadline a bit.

To double check... Our teams can use the tag announcement week (from around the 22nd of the previous month) for planning (talking, picking books, juggling responsibilities, picking backup books, ordering books, waiting for them, etc.). Some of us will need to wait longer for the right book to arrive, but it's perfectly OK (it's not cheating) if some members start reading before the official month begins. We can submit our reviews anytime from the 1st to the 31st (or last day) of the month. This is true for the Team Letter Task and other tag books. Correct?

It's a lot easier to have everything on the same monthly schedule. Some people like to get an early start on next month, and some like to squeeze in "one more book" at the end of every month. We're all adults with different time habits, but it all evens out over the month and year, so it's all good, right?

This reminds me... We all have different styles and expectations, and even if we have a lot of team experience, every task and group is different, so we need extra time at the beginning. I'd be happy if we didn't even have a bonus for being the first to finish next month. (Or maybe I'm just feeling mellow because of all the birthday parties this week.)

Anita, I know you said you changed some rules but I'm not sure what is different.

It looks like you removed the rule about team members not reading the same book in the same month. I hope so, because a big part of the value in PBT is sharing great books for each tag and topic. It's so much fun when we read the same books at the same time, and can discuss them.

OR, more likely I misunderstood the discussion, and the rule was simply "You cannot read the same book to SPELL a tag."

NancyJ wrote: "Anita, I know you said you changed some rules but I'm not sure what is different.

It looks like you removed the rule about team members not reading the same book in the same month. I hope so, be..."

I had conflicting information about the schedule. I just removed the conflicting line. The timeline described under the heading "Schedule" is the correct timeline, and I removed the conflicting info that was in my original post.

NancyJ wrote: "Anita, I know you said you changed some rules but I'm not sure what is different.

It looks like you removed the rule about team members not reading the same book in the same month. I hope so, be..."

Yes, this is correct. A single tag word must be spelled with different books. But duplication is okay for "other books" - - but if a tag word has 10 different letters, that needs to be achieved with 10 different books, even if there is letter duplication.

Anita - Thank you so much for all the work you have done on this behind the scenes. And for your patience in answering all of our questions. I just have a couple more to ask.

For the book to match the tag, it has to be tagged that way by minimum 5 non game participants. How can we check this? I thought you can no longer see who the taggers are, so we won't know if they are game participants or not.

To get the incremental individual points each month, you have to complete a book towards the team goal. I assume that means you need to read a book for at least one of the letters to spell out the word for the monthly tag. But what happens if the tag is short, and there are more members on each team than there are letters in the monthly tag?

Sorry if you have already answered these questions somewhere else!

As per usual, great questions Hannah!

For the book to match the tag, it has to be tagged that way by minimum 5 non game participants. How can we check this? I thought you can no longer see who the taggers are, so we won't know if they are game participants or not.

I either missed or forgot about this change. So it will simply be 5 taggers, and I hope people don't cheat. If I think a tag is suspicious or someone thinks cheating is going on, I may investigate, but it will remain at 5 tags and hopefully our members don't cheat by tagging after the fact.

Hannah wrote: "To get the incremental individual points each month, you have to complete a book towards the team goal. I assume that means you need to read a book for at least one of the letters to spell out the word for the monthly tag. But what happens if the tag is short, and there are more members on each team than there are letters in the monthly tag?"

Did I say this somewhere? For some reason I can't find it now!

Basically, no extra books will be counted unless the word has been spelled by the end of the time period.

All the books being read and counted for this challenge do need to use the letters of the monthly tag (by either starting with the title letter or the author's last name needs to match).

Let's use an example. Say the tag is FOOD.

If the team covers F and O and O and D with books that match these letters, then all extra books that match F or O or O or D will count.

But if your team covers F and O and O, and then the D person falls down on the job and doesn't finish their book in time. And no one else reads an extra book that covers D - - then the team didn't complete the challenge AND none of their extra books may count for points either.

So the priority should be making sure the letters of the tag are covered by and finished. Any individual who reads for one or more of the letters, whether or not that book is specifically used to spell the word, will be eligible for individual points provided the TEAM spells out the entire word successfully

I tried to clarify some of the language in my original post to incorporate some of the Q&A.

Let me know if you think I am contradicting myself somewhere!

Theresa wrote: "We can start reading for the challenge once tag is announced but not post reviews until 1st of month. Does that early start to reading include reading extra books matching tag but not necessarily a letter? and Extra reads for letters?"

I think there's a misunderstanding of the rules in your query. And I see why because I didn't state it in the first post, but rather in response to a question from Robin (see my response in post #6).

All books need to match a letter. If they are tagged 5x with the tag, that could possibly earn additional points for a team. But all books need to match a letter to be used in this challenge.

I tried to amend the rules to make it more clear. Please let me know if there's still ambiguity or if you see a contradiction.

Thanks, Anita. I know there will still be a learning curve the first month, but it looks like it will be smoother.