Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Earth is long since dead. On a colony planet, a band of men has gained control of technology, made themselves immortal, and now rule their world as the gods of the Hindu pantheon. Only one dares oppose them: he who was once Siddhartha and is now Mahasamatman. Binder of Demons, Lord of Light.

As a youth, he was a favourite SF author of mine. There is a particular story, I will try to track it down.

I know him from The Chronicles of Amber. I've been meaning to read Lord of Light for a long time now.

I've never read this author, so I'll be joining this in January.

Lord of Light is one of my favorite books of all time. Chapter 3, I think, was first published separately as a short story, and even before I discovered that I thought it was one of the best parts of the book. I don't know whether I'll be able to fit it into my January reading, but I re-read it recently so I look forward to following the discussion.

Tried very hard to get into this book, which is a sci-fi classic, but got very confused with intrusive images from Hindu and Buddhist mythology. The less you know of either of those, I imagine, the easier to read Zelazny.

@Mbuye, oh no! The less you know the better it may be?? That was what gave it some appeal for me. Less inclined to add to TBR now… I will be curious for others’ thoughts here. But thanks for sharing.

Jen, don't get me wrong. I have nothing but admiration for Zelazny. The problem is me. I'm a student of Asian mythology, and it's that my training gets in the way. Otherwise, Lord of Light is one of those rare classics: a sci-fi great with a sense of humour.

Vince wrote: "Lord of Light is one of my favorite books of all time. Chapter 3, I think, was first published separately as a short story, and even before I discovered that I thought it was one of the best parts of the book."
That's cool.

Mbuye wrote: "Tried very hard to get into this book, which is a sci-fi classic, but got very confused with intrusive images from Hindu and Buddhist mythology. The less you know of either of those, I imagine, the easier to read Zelazny."
So it's not that accurate to the real mythology?

That's just it. It is so accurate in some parts that when the God of Death, for example, lights a cigarette, I'm thrown completely off. It's different when the Greek gods are satirised, because I know about them only in the general way and not as years of study.

Ah ok. I appreciate the explanation, and the testimonial for the author. That is not my background with Eastern mythologies so perhaps it’ll be fun for me.

Mbuye wrote: "That's just it. It is so accurate in some parts that when the God of Death, for example, lights a cigarette, I'm thrown completely off."
Yeah, it should be a hooka or something to be more on theme but it was the late 60s and Zelazny was a smoker so there are cigarettes.

Thanks to you two, I'm rereading Lord of Light where I left off. I shouldn't let my own blue spectacles spoil what is otherwise a very brilliant satire and serious sci-fi!

@Mbuye, well I’ll be curious to hear more reflections from you. That will be interesting given your background :)

I like how it's using sci-fi elements to recreate Indian mythology with reincarnation, karma, demons, etc. Also I thought it might mirror the beginnings of Buddhism. I'd imagine it clashed with Hinduism early on, right?

No, actually it doesn't clash with Hinduism; it follows the Hindu-Jain-Buddhist iconography and characteristics perfectly -- and suddenly it diverges!

In any case, I 've put it behind me, and the book's actual plotline is falling into place.

But this has been an interesting exchange, opening my mind when I had resolutely closed it before.

Mbuye commented: That's just it. It is so accurate in some parts that when the God of Death, for example, lights a cigarette, I'm thrown completely off.

It depends on one’s perspective, of course, but I personally wouldn’t characterize such unexpected departures as problematic. This reminds me a bit of similar criticisms leveled at Zelazny regarding his Dilvish fantasy stories. Early tales in the series relied on the customary semi-formal language that characterized a lot of high fantasy during the first part of the 20th century (think Lord Dunsany). And then, sometime in the 70s, iirc, the characters in those stories were suddenly spouting vernacular English. At the time that shift bugged some readers. (I preferred the change, but that’s just my opinion.)

Mbuye wrote: "No, actually it doesn't clash with Hinduism; it follows the Hindu-Jain-Buddhist iconography and characteristics perfectly -- and suddenly it diverges!

In any case, I 've put it behind me, and the book's actual plotline is falling into place."
I wasn't commenting on what you said.

In the story Sam recreated Buddhism to undermine the gods.
I was wondering if in the real world Buddhism was at first considered a schism and threat to Hinduism when it started.

Yes, actually it was. In fact, at its peak, it almost completely obliterated Hinduism in India. One reason: Hinduism has a rigid caste system, while Buddhism has none. The Hindu revival coincided with the Muslim incursions from Central Asia, who destroyed the institutions of the dominant religion.
At the same time, there was an upsurge of Hinduism -- people have to have faith in something -- so while Buddhism exists in a few pockets in Northeast India, it is close to extinct in the rest of India.

You might be interested to know that one of the drafters of the Indian Constitution, BR Ambedkar, the most popular political leader of India (including Gandhi) renounced Hinduism and caste philosophy, and began a neo-Buddhist religion, which has been gaining immense popularity. But Dr Ambedkar is no Sam!

Mbuye wrote: "Yes, actually it was. In fact, at its peak, it almost completely obliterated Hinduism in India. One reason: Hinduism has a rigid caste system, while Buddhism has none. The Hindu revival coincided w..."
That's interesting. I did see something that said this is Zelazny's version of the rise of Buddhism.


The book was okay but I didn't really love it. There were so many weird info dumpy passages. (view spoiler)[How many death fake outs did Sam have?? (hide spoiler)]

Yes, I can see that. I felt it couldn't make up its mind between a sci-fi spoof and a political thriller. I have read other Zelazny books which I enjoyed more.

As for Sam -- that's the nature of the beast, to be reincarnated in a kind of spiritual washing machine again and again and again until you're rinsed spotless

I've heard that another famous writer who was friends with Zelazny (maybe Gaiman or GRRM) said he wrote Lord of Light around the godawful pun (view spoiler)["then the fit hit the Shan" (hide spoiler)]. I don't quite believe that, but I'm almost certain he invented that title as an excuse for it.

I started this one - but simply didn't like it. So in line with my new resolve to DNF any book that I'm not enjoying, this one has been abandoned.

John wrote: "I started this one - but simply didn't like it. So in line with my new resolve to DNF any book that I'm not enjoying, this one has been abandoned."

Good for you!

Vince wrote: "I've heard that another famous writer who was friends with Zelazny (maybe Gaiman or GRRM) said he wrote Lord of Light around the godawful pun [spoilers removed]. I don't quite believe that, but I'm..."
hehe, I guess ideas come in all kinds of weird ways.

John wrote: "I started this one - but simply didn't like it. So in ine with my new resolve to DNF any book that I'm not enjoying, this one has been abandoned."
Oh well. Better luck next time.

I’ve started but slow getting into this. I hope it picks up.

Liane wrote: "I’ve started but slow getting into this. I hope it picks up."
How's it going?

Well, I just finished. I liked this story. It had a slow start but the characters definitely grew on me over the course of the book. I liked the layering of religions/religious figures - Hindu and Buddhist, especially. But my lack of familiarity with Hindu gods made the beginning hard to follow and I’m sure I missed some ongoing context. I needed to listen to an audiobook to get myself going after sight reading just wasn’t cutting it.

Now all that said, I read some other reviews and there are big parts I missed about the setting (a colonized planet?) I may go back and skim to figure out how I missed this, but iI really didn’t enjoy it enough to reread the whole thing.

There's a few references to (view spoiler)[a spaceship, and the original pantheon (plus Sam, the Christian one, and a handful of others) fleeing the destruction of "old Urth" (or something along those lines) (hide spoiler)].

I've heard it said that Lord of Light is "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" told from the point of view of the people who have that technology; another Zelazny book, Creatures of Light and Darkness, also features people who have set themselves up as gods wielding technology so advanced it seems like magic - but the audience is given no insight into it at all, and is left in the dark as to whether the "gods" are human or truly divine.

Liane wrote: "Now all that said, I read some other reviews and there are big parts I missed about the setting (a colonized planet?) I may go back and skim to figure out how I missed this, but iI really didn’t enjoy it enough to reread the whole thing."

Yeah, they sometimes refer to Urath. That's earth where they came from originally.

OK, so I couldn’t help myself. I did go back and reread a fair bit. It was easy to miss, since I concluded that this fell under fantasy, I tend to suspend disbelief a lot in that genre so I wasn’t looking for sci-fi characteristics. There was an explanation of the indigenous beings that they displaced when they came to the planet, which were described as rakshasa (a malevolent being/demon in the Hindu pantheon) and I also noted a reference or two to Urath.

I do like the concept that advanced technology can be perceived as magic. Although, the advancements in this world seemed to be utilized for the continued subjugation of a preindustrial worker caste, resulting in the “Accelerationist” political movement. There was a lot going on in this book.