Ersatz TLS discussion

Gpfr wrote: "I thought people might like this extract from Slightly Foxed, beginning "banishment, destruction, murder and deportation are, regrettably, an integral part of good housekeeping" + a photo of a read..."

Madame periodically entreats me to 'deport' a good number of my books (curiously, her own appear to be immune from this fate, perhaps because they are in French and so difficult to get/replace in the UK; or maybe the excuse is that they won't find 'takers' in the local Oxfam - a dubious claim as this is a university town.) One result has been to make me buy many books in electronic versions, but recently the lack of ebook versions of some of Ross Macdonald's novels has resulted in another influx (as well as a couple of efforts by Charles Portis).

Woe is me!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
I‘m currently 🎧 to and enjoying this

Diana wrote: "https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
I‘m currently 🎧 to and enjoying this"

I'm also on an Elly Griffiths book, (reading not listening, though), The Great Deceiver in the Brighton mysteries series. In 1960's Brighton, magician's assistants are in danger ...

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote:

i wasnt referring to the select few here, dont worry, the breadth of reading and discussion is far above the masses!

When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

i have a nice set of trowels and shovels and not afraid to use them...lol

says a non avid reader of crime novels...

giveusaclue wrote: "When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Geoffery O'Brien in the NYRB:

[Edmund Wilson's] argument for the essential worthlessness of the genre becomes an indictment of its devotees. “Detective-story readers feel guilty,” he wrote, “they are habitually on the defensive, and all their talk about ‘well-written’ mysteries is simply an excuse for their vice, like the reasons that the alcoholic can always produce for a drink.”

scarletnoir wrote: "I tend to dislike the genre, as far too often the murderer (or whatever) is foregrounded at the expense of the victims... this is distasteful to me."

There are true crime accounts that focus on the victim, though usually these are victims who are to some extent complicit in their victimhood. I’m thinking of victims whose decision to “walk on the wild side” eventually lead to their demise, like actor Bob Crane in The Murder of Bob Crane or a recent story I read in The New Yorker about the death of Zac Brettler in London.

But you’re right that it is generally the criminal, often a murderer, who is the star of the show in true crime books. It is this discomforting role of the murderer as “artist” that Thomas de Quincey drives home in his essays On Murder. These essays have been wrongfully appropriated by writers of fictional crime stories, which has tended to defang De Quicey’s sharp-toothed argument, which serves as an ironic but forceful indictment of the hypocrite lecteur (as well as the author) of true crime accounts.

Bill wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Geoffery O'Brien in the NYRB:
[Edmund Wilson's] argument for the essential worthlessness of the genre become..."

very interesting point of view, i wonder what our avid readers of crime novels think about this?

also, do our avid readers search for literary merit or merely to satisfy their guilty vice....

Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?"

no i havent GP, thanks for bringing her to my attention

i must explore more Ginzburg and Moravia, the lady writers of the Italian post war scene. I am a fan of Deladda (a sardinian female writer) and i enjoyed A Woman by Sibilla Aleramo a few years ago

I am always pleasently suprised by the rigour and downbeat tone of this generation of italian writers like Buzzatti, Moravia and co. Italians are probably stereotyped as lively and fun loving people but the novels of this era and Italian writing in general are so very different, analytical, full of doubt, unsettling and introspective.

Even the authors before this are similarily serious and quite morose, as are the Italian crime writers of the modern era. I would put foward the superb Andrea Camillieri as bucking this trend though, his novels are defined by a wonderful sense of humour, not that the other Italian writers lack it but it lurks in the corners of darker messages, Camillieri lets its float in the foreground

AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?"

no i havent GP, thanks for bringing her to my attention

..."

I haven't connected with what little Ginzburg that I have read, but Morante is wonderful. There is really a stunning lack of Italian female authors, and it's not a translation issue. They have become more visible and more published from the 1980s onwards, but prior to that it was almost entirely a masculine field.

AB76 wrote: "Bill wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Geoffery O'Brien in the NYRB:
[Edmund Wilson's] argument for the essential worthlessness of the..."

I just enjoy a good story. But I do venture into non fiction from time to time.

Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?"

no i havent GP, thanks for bringing her to m..."

check out aleramo and deladda if you havent Paul....

Russell wrote: "Pêcheur d’Islande – Pierre Loti (1886)

A story of the Breton fishermen who make a hard and dangerous livelihood fishing for cod off Iceland, and are gone from February to September, leaving their wives, families and sweethearts in fear and anxiety that they may never return. It was a publishing hit at the time, and I enjoyed it, though Loti apparently gets little respect today from literary critics, who accuse him of sentimentality. I thought it pulled no punches on the miseries of life in this remote community, even if the two principals are a touch idealized – he fearless in his trade and of tremendous physique, she a beauty with the air of a Parisian demoiselle, both of them honest, modest, sincere and reticent. Will they ever overcome their reticence and connect? We follow another character out East, a fisherman called to fight in the navy in Indo-China. The suspense of the ending is admirably drawn out. It reminds you that there were excellent writers in the 1880s, beyond the great names of Zola and Maupassan."

I've had Loti's Ramuntcho on my list for some time but I might consider reading this one first, after your description.

Gpfr wrote: "Diana wrote: "https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
I‘m currently 🎧 to and enjoying this"

I'm also on an Elly Griffiths book, (reading not listening, though), [book:The Great Deceiver|5896..."

Although I much enjoyed the Ruth Galloway series, I didn't take to the Brighton mysteries - I tried the first book. It's a while ago, but it may have been partly the characters, partly it had something to do with theatre people which always feels a bit fake, and partly that it was set in a time I almost remember, and didn't feel the book captured the period well.

Bill wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Geoffery O'Brien in the NYRB:
[Edmund Wilson's] argument for the essential worthlessness of the genre become..."

The reasoning here has a specious "when did you stop beating your wife?" sort of logic to it!

AB76 wrote: "do our avid readers search for literary merit or merely to satisfy their guilty vice..."

Not at all - I freely admit to reading a lot of crime fiction - as well as a lot of other stuff - from a young age (pre-teen, probably). What I will say is that as I have got older, I have become far more discriminating in my choices of crime authors, and have moved from enjoying what might be termed 'puzzle whodunits' to books with genuinely stylish writing and/or something interesting to say about a certain period and/or location - as well as having a degree of psychological consistency and credibility.

I can't read a crime book - or any book - which is either boring, badly written, or which expects the reader to believe in all sorts of plot contortions merely to suit the author's plan, if it goes against the logic of the characters and their psychology.

I found the later Ruth Galloway books rather poor, contrived, and stopped reading them.
Generally it’s the puzzle element of crime fiction that I enjoy but like Scarlet there has to be something more, the setting is important because I like to learn about different places, the story has to be credible. Scarlet and I might disagree about certain books - for instance Quirke - but I think we look for the same quality.
I do read a deal else, too. Poetry as you would expect, novels, non-fiction, not necessarily the whole book but the information which interests me, nature, physics, gardening, recipes, history, archaeology….
But I don’t read war stories - just dislike them - it’s the mass cruelty involved that is too much now, and neither do I read short stories because they usually leave me wanting more

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "When in hole stop digging. 🤣

Says an avid reader of crime novels!"

Geoffery O'Brien in the NYRB:
[Edmund Wilson's] argument for the essential worthlessness of the..."

i love edmund wilson, always thought provoking and he clearly isnt an avid reader of crime novels!

CCCubbon wrote: "I found the later Ruth Galloway books rather poor, contrived, and stopped reading them.
Generally it’s the puzzle element of crime fiction that I enjoy but like Scarlet there has to be something mo..."

CCCubbon wrote: "I found the later Ruth Galloway books rather poor, contrived, and stopped reading them.
Generally it’s the puzzle element of crime fiction that I enjoy but like Scarlet there has to be something mo..."

what did you think of Edmund Wilsons quote CCC, that Bill mentioned, about crime fiction

Like you, scarletnoir, I enjoyed reading Elly Griffiths' Ruth Galloway books. I also find the Harbinder Kaur series keeps my interest. (I tend to listen to crime novels while knitting).
I even tried the second Brighton Mysteries book as well because I just couldn't understand why they just didn't appeal at all but then gave up.
Your explanation was very helpful!
"it may have been partly the characters, partly it had something to do with theatre people which always feels a bit fake, and partly that it was set in a time I almost remember, and didn't feel the book captured the period well"

I think it must have been the setting as a whole for me, too.

Well I have never felt guilty about reading detective fiction.

What really concerns me is if I know someone never reads a book and there are many who don’t.

As I don’t know what his proof is for the assertion as not having access to the whole piece it just seems rather spurious.
As an afterthought I was married to a detective for many years and most ‘detective stories’ have little resemblance to real life! It’s just another kind of fiction mostly.

CCCubbon wrote: "Well I have never felt guilty about reading detective fiction.

What really concerns me is if I know someone never reads a book and there are many who don’t.

As I don’t know what his proof is for..."

i agree about people who never read books, my neighbour is a single mother of 37 and there is not a single book in her house and i'm sure this is much more common than i think it is

Berkley wrote: "Russell wrote: "Pêcheur d’Islande ... A story of the Breton fishermen ..." I've had Loti's Ramuntcho on my list for some time but I might consider reading this one first, after your description.

Yes, Ramuntcho looks good too and it’s on my list. Wikipedia says it was adapted for film four times., so it has to be a strong story.

AB76 wrote: "i love edmund wilson, always thought provoking and he clearly isnt an avid reader of crime novels!"

I've greatly enjoyed reading the reviews he wrote for the New Yorker in the 1940s.

Here is his original piece on the genre, “Why Do People Read Detective Stories?” (My apologies in advance: I have an account with the magazine; I'm not sure what access the New Yorker's paywall will permit for non-subscribers.)

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/19...

Anyway, here he is on Rex Stout:

In my present line of duty, however, I have decided that I ought to take a look at some specimens of this school of writing, which has grown so prodigiously popular and of which the output is now so immense that this department has to have a special editor to deal with its weekly production. To be sure of getting something above the average, I waited for new novels by writers who are particularly esteemed by connoisseurs, and started in with the recent volume of Nero Wolfe stories by Rex Stout: “Not Quite Dead Enough” (Farrar & Rinehart).

What I found rather surprised me and let me down. Here was simply the old Sherlock Holmes formula reproduced with a fidelity even more complete than it had been by Jacques Futrelle almost forty years ago. Here was the incomparable private detective, ironic and ceremonious, with a superior mind and eccentric habits, keen on money, and regarding himself as an artist, given to lapsing into apathetic phases of gluttony and orchid-raising as Holmes had his enervated indulgence in his cocaine and his violin, but always dramatically reviving himself to perform prodigies of intellectual alertness; and here were the admiring stooge, adoring and slightly dense, and Inspector Lestrade of Scotland Yard, energetic but completely at sea, under the new name of Inspector Cramer of Police Headquarters. Almost the only difference was that Nero Wolfe was fat and lethargic instead of lean and active like Holmes, and that he liked to make the villains commit suicide instead of handing them over to justice. But I rather enjoyed Nero Wolfe, with his rich dinners and quiet evenings in his house in farthest West Thirty-fifth Street, where he savors an armchair sadism that is always accompanied by beer. I was somewhat disappointed in the stories that made up this most recent book—“Not Quite Dead Enough” and “Booby Trap”—but, as they were both under the usual length and presented Nero Wolfe partly distracted from his regular profession by a rigorous course of training for the Army, I concluded that they might not be first-rate examples of what the author could do in this line and read also “The Nero Wolfe Omnibus” (World), which contains two earlier book-length stories: “The Red Box” and “The League of Frightened Men.” But neither did these supply the excitement I had hoped for. If the later stories seemed sketchy and skimpy, these seemed to have been somewhat padded, for they were full of long episodes that led nowhere and had no real business to be in the story. It was only when I looked up Sherlock Holmes that I realized how much Nero Wolfe was a dim and distant copy of an original. The old stories of Conan Doyle had a wit and a fairy-tale poetry of hansom cabs, gloomy London lodgings, and lonely country estates that Rex Stout could hardly duplicate with his backgrounds of modern New York; and the surprises were much more entertaining: you at least got a room with a descending ceiling or a snake trained to climb down the bellrope, whereas in Nero Wolfe—though “The League of Frightened Men” does make use of rather a clever psychological idea—the solution of the mystery was not usually either fanciful or unexpected. I finally felt that I was unpacking large crates by swallowing the excelsior in order to find at the bottom a few bent and rusty nails, and I began to nurse a rankling conviction that detective stories in general profit by an unfair advantage in the code which forbids the reviewer to give away the secret to the public—a custom which results in the concealment of the pointlessness of a good deal of this fiction and affords a protection to the authors which no other department of writing enjoys. It is not difficult to create suspense by making people await a revelation, but it demands a certain originality to come through with a criminal device which is ingenious or picturesque or amusing enough to make the reader feel the waiting has been worth while. I even began to mutter that the real secret that Rex Stout had been screening by his false scents and interminable divagations was a meagreness of imagination of which one only came to realize the full horror when the last chapter had left one blank.

He goes on to document the perceived inadequacies of Agatha Christie and Dashiell Hammett. Since I've liked what I read by the latter, in fairness I'll quote part of Wilson's takedown:

As a writer—despite the praise of him one has heard—he is surely almost as far below Rex Stout as Rex Stout is below James M. Cain. “The Maltese Falcon” today seems not much above those newspaper picture strips in which you follow from day to day the ups and downs of a strong-jawed hero and a hardboiled but beautiful adventuress.

AB76 wrote: "i love edmund wilson, always thought provoking.."

A pity he never bothered to study Logic 101!

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i love edmund wilson, always thought provoking and he clearly isnt an avid reader of crime novels!"

I've greatly enjoyed reading the reviews he wrote for the New Yorker in the 1940s. ..."


Quoting Nero Wolfe - Phooey

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i love edmund wilson, always thought provoking and he clearly isnt an avid reader of crime novels!"

I've greatly enjoyed reading the reviews he wrote for the New Yorker in the 1940s. ..."

i have a second hand collection of his diaries from the 1940s on the pile, i read a colllection of his 1920 and 1930s writing a ew years back. a very interesting writer

Bill wrote: "From wilson:

1. The old stories of Conan Doyle had a wit and a fairy-tale poetry of hansom cabs, gloomy London lodgings, and lonely country estates that Rex Stout could hardly duplicate with his backgrounds of modern New York...

2. the surprises were much more entertaining: you at least got a room with a descending ceiling or a snake trained to climb down the bellrope...

3. detective stories in general profit by an unfair advantage in the code which forbids the reviewer to give away the secret to the public... I

4. it is not difficult to create suspense by making people await a revelation, but it demands a certain originality to come through with a criminal device which is ingenious or picturesque or amusing enough to make the reader feel the waiting has been worth while."

1. Wilson states that he enjoys books which create atmosphere: so do I; the best crime writers achieve this; someone who portrays New York in the 1940s is creating a picture of a scene which is as distant to us - or even more so - than was London of the 1890s to Wilson. I have stated many times how important the location and time period can be. We learn a great deal by being conveyed to different times and/or places.

2. Clearly, Wilson had a taste for the eccentric and absurd.

3. I would say that readers of many (most?) novels in any genre would feel more than a little incensed if a reviewer casually told them how a story ended. This is not unique to crime fiction.

4. Here, Wilson has half a point; I no longer read crime fiction for the 'reveal', but for the journey.

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "From wilson:

1. The old stories of Conan Doyle had a wit and a fairy-tale poetry of hansom cabs, gloomy London lodgings, and lonely country estates that Rex Stout could hardly duplica..."

very interesting scarlet, your point 4, clearly you get more out of crime novels than many people. i personally find the earlier the reveal the quicker a crime novel fades into nothing but while i'm 100% not an avid reader of crime, i am always intrigued by the mystery before the reveal

AB76 wrote: "Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?"

no i havent GP, thanks for brin..."


I have Sibilla Aleramo in a box somewhere, sooner or later I'll get around to her.

scarletnoir wrote: "I can't read a crime book - or any book - which is either boring, badly written, or which expects the reader to believe in all sorts of plot contortions merely to suit the author's plan"

You've listed three of the complaints (and there are more) I had about The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "From wilson:

1. The old stories of Conan Doyle had a wit and a fairy-tale poetry of hansom cabs, gloomy London lodgings, and lonely country estates that Rex Stout could hardly duplica..."

Was he a tad snobbish?

Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "the wonderful Italian literary scene that flourished post WW2..."

Have you read anything by Goliarda Sapienza?"

no i havent GP, th..."

i was very impressed with it,good to see a major publisher like Penguin prodicung translations, its been a good 4-5 years of Penguin doing this

scarletnoir wrote: "3. I would say that readers of many (most?) novels in any genre would feel more than a little incensed if a reviewer casually told them how a story ended. This is not unique to crime fiction."

I find the present day sensitivity of readers to "spoilers" far too pervasive; it has rendered most of the reviews in the NY Times so uninformative as to be essentially useless as far as determining whether or not I might find the book to my liking. I can imagine that irate theater patrons are now complaining about the spoiler contained in posters advertising The Death of a Salesman.


Thankfully NYRB is fairly immune to this nonsense. If discussing a book requires talking about plot developments their critics appear free to do so. It was only a review I read there that talked about a "reveal" in the latter part of Piranesi that made me realize that I might like the novel; the reticence of other reviews made the plot sound unbearably silly.

Bill wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "3. I would say that readers of many (most?) novels in any genre would feel more than a little incensed if a reviewer casually told them how a story ended. This is not unique to ..."

I would be rather careful about reading Piranesi, as reading it caused me to have a very strange dream, where a good few peoples here, in our book group, appeared as supporting characters!... and I have written it up here on my blog, as 'Ulysses In Different Guises'. I think they, those that noticed that is, mostly, were entertained by their unexpected appearances, but it was certainly odd...

But the thing that puzzles me, in terms of what you have written here, and why I have replied to you now, is that I am currently writing my next blog, which compares/contrasts/connects 'Death of a Salesman' with 'Catcher in the Rye'. Are you psychically honing in on a strangers random musings?... Neither 'Piranesi' or 'Death of a Salesman', are currently 'hip' book reads, I think?... Or has Ersatz become a sort of wierd 'centre' of psychic attention/reciprocity somehow?... Anyway it might either put you off Piranesi, or attract you, who knows, but I hope it at least might entertain... Perhaps! https://jediperson.wordpress.com/2022...

Tam wrote: "I would be rather careful about reading Piranesi, as reading it caused me to have a very strange dream, where a good few peoples here, in our book group, appeared as supporting characters!... "

You say that like it's a bad thing. If anything, it would encourage me.

The last reading experience I recall that seemed to affect my dreams was while I was reading my way through Poe. I recall the dreams being particularly rich, though not especially Poe-themed.

Bill wrote: "Tam wrote: "I would be rather careful about reading Piranesi, as reading it caused me to have a very strange dream, where a good few peoples here, in our book group, appeared as supporting characte..."

No. It's not a bad thing, at least for me... but I have a very visual take on the world, and stuff, like language, tends to get translated into that very visual field for me. I also have a tendency to very bad punning... But its not everyone's cup of tea...

Game Without Rules by Michael Gilbert, one of the new Penguin Modern Classics - Crime and Espionage.

This collection of short stories is concerned with espionage: two gentlemen of a certain age, neighbours in the Kent countryside, are in fact secret agents.
Most enjoyable (though something sad in the last story).

Gpfr wrote: " Game Without Rules by Michael Gilbert, one of the new Penguin Modern Classics - Crime and Espionage.

This collection of short stories is con..."

this is on my radar GP, the penguin modern classics-crime catalogue with some lovely covers looks fab, have you looked at the library of congress crime classics range? i am especially interested in the espionage re-issues.

AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: " Game Without Rules by Michael Gilbert, one of the new Penguin Modern Classics - Crime and Espionage.

This collection of short s..."

The library I once worked at (misplaced preposition!!!) put in compact shelving some time ago. Among the items on the shelves are a decent number of older mysteries. I just finished and returned Game Without Rules, the 1967 version. I particularly liked the chase through the European countryside - quite cold warish.

And I just found the 2nd in the series at Better World - Mr. Calder and Mr. Behrens. Hah! It will soon be winging its way to me.

Any Donna Leon fans here? April must be on its way as my library already has an ON ORDER spot for her latest - A Refiner's Fire.

For those near Ely or London and once were Eagles of the Empire fans, here are a couple of venues for you - https://www.toppingbooks.co.uk/events... and https://www.britishmuseum.org/exhibit...

I’m slowly making my way through Snow Fall a Wistling book by. Horst . I say slowly because it’s one of those books written with constant references to a forum on the internet. A group has established to look into the death of a young woman in Spain and there are contributions from various members. Then one gets a little about the investigation from the police point of view. Trouble is this constant changing leads to repetition and I find it verging on boring.
I think this format interrupts the flow of the story. It’s rather like those Janice Hallett books all completed in internet speak.
Shall I persevere?. Don’t know. I am about half way.

MK wrote: " I just found the 2nd in the series - Mr. Calder and Mr. Behrens...."

oh, I didn't know there was more!
But a quick look has only shown me very expensive copies :(

AB76 wrote: "have you looked at the library of congress crime classics range?..."

No, only the British Library crime classics.

MK wrote: "Any Donna Leon fans here?"

Yes!
Her latest is on my wish list.

MK wrote: "Any Donna Leon fans here? April must be on its way as my library already has an ON ORDER spot for her latest - A Refiner's Fire."

Me

Super-Infinite: The Transformations of John Donne by Katherine Rundell.
What a good book this is! Vivid, fun, serious ... all of these. I realised on starting it how little I knew about Donne's life, in spite of having loved his poetry for years.
Literature, biography, history, and it's entertaining, too.

@scarletnoir
I don't know if you've seen, but there's a new John Russell book by David Downing coming out: Union Station.

Gpfr wrote: "@scarletnoir
I don't know if you've seen, but there's a new John Russell book by David Downing coming out: Union Station."

Thank you for that. Now in line at the library. I expect there's plenty of fodder for intrigue - yum.

The Sun Beneath Their Feet is the second collection of short stories by Doris Lessing set in the Africa, in which she grew up, mostly the small colony of Southern Rhodesia, that in the late 1970s became Zimbabwe.

The stories arent as good as the first collection of hers i read but there is enough imagination and mastery of language to keep me reading. Compared to another southern african female writer of the same era, Nadine Gordimer, her style is much simpler and unadorned, much more english and reflecting an english outlook than the South African themes that Gordimer covers

I am using a weighty tome of self published pap to get into the world of Southern Rhodesia, it is The Last Rhodesians by Duncan Clarke. Its badly written and edited with some great sentences collapsing into grammar and style which seem written in the dark. It extols the Rhodesians as some kind of special race, known for tolerance and diversity and is a massive rambling mess of a work but there is much there to learn as well, about slang, some writers i had never heard of and a dozen pages where Lessing is claimed as a Rhodesian write

What concerns me about these almost self-published paeans to alternate worlds that never existed is that they can be cast out into the world of great informative novels and books and gain status when they are unreliable and badly put together. I feel the Clarke book with a years worth of editing could have been a far better book, with a warning attached about its strange take on a small, racist, colonial regime that faded 44 years ago.

I am genuinely interested in all the settler colonies that the european empires imposed on other nations, interested in the make up of the settlers, their behaviours and beliefs but in a firmly critical and objective way. Its a concern that some of these groups become heroic races, in golden lands by inaccurate self-published nonsense works.

Attention should be drawn to the alarming groups of publishers printing nazi and anti-semitic guff in the name of memoirs and other such books. i found one of these on amazon where a reviewer ave it 5 stars and said " this will teach you the truth about the jews..." ughhh.....despicable