Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the thread for the Buddy Read of Rabbit Is Rich. This was scheduled to begin in June, but there is some interest in pushing it out? How does everyone feel?

I would like to read this, but could wait until later in the month.

A little later in the month is fine with me.

A definite read for me and later in the month will work.

I have begun. Same old Rabbit...I really find him extremely unlikable.

I am about 50 pages of Pat Conroy’s Beach Music away from starting Rabbit is Rich.

I have begun. I wanted to include this link from a publc television interview with Updike from 1978 our last read but didn't find time. I don't think one can help not feeling the Harvard charm of the author. I know one has far better things to do than watch videos on a beautiful June day but I hope you find time for this. The dichotomy between the image the author presents and the image we may have of the author from just reading Rabbit is striking. I think after watching it, we have to give more thought to Updike's intent. BTW, there are a number of interviews from later in Updike's life on youtube.

https://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog?f%...

Thanks, Sam. I had a little Updike with my breakfast this morning. I always find it fascinating to listen to renowned authors speak about their lives and works. I think it is a huge mistake to read novels and assume the characters (any or all of them) are the author himself. They are conduits to convey ideas.

Of course, there are those authors who are always writing about themselves. You can pick the exact character that represents them in their books. At the same time, pieces of an author cannot help seeping into their writings and their characters, even if they are writing fantasy. You would not watch this interview, if you had not read any of the Rabbit series, and imagine that Rabbit Angstrom is the kind of character this man would create.

I do not like Rabbit, but what keeps me reading is that he is multi-layered. Just when you think you know the SOB, he throws in a humanizing thought or action and you realize you have been caught looking at the surface again, the bravado, and missing the struggle underneath. Rabbit knows his life falls short, he knows there is something missing, and he harbors those ideas of the Utopian version of his life in his head.

Hearing Updike talk, particularly about his relationships with women, was very interesting to me. Both his editors, at the time of this interview, had been women. I wonder if that continued throughout his writing career.

Sara wrote: "Thanks, Sam. I had a little Updike with my breakfast this morning. I always find it fascinating to listen to renowned authors speak about their lives and works. I think it is a huge mistake to read..."

I am not a fan of Rabbit either but the satire is really coming out in this novel, making my dislike for him less relative to my appreciation of the novel. The country club poolside conversation was brilliant.

Perhaps we will have more thoughts on author later. I just wanted to get that video linked so we could see the author in conversation about writing and other books close to when he wrote these books.

Oh, I agree. The writing is deft. The satirical elements are much more pronounced as we go along in the series. One of the things about Rabbit that is obvious from the beginning is that he is immature emotionally and age does not seem to be curing him of that.

Thank you for the Updike link, Sam. I'm going to wait until I finish the series to watch though. I prefer not to know what the author intended before reading something when possible.

Sara, I agree about Rabbit being emotionally immature. You see him trying to be better, but he just can't seem to get there. He's takes one step forward and then 2 steps back (and visa versa). Even though he's settled down and is "Rich" he is aimless in a job he isn't passionate about and living with his mother in law. He hasn't been able to make it on his own which I believe leads to his low self esteem that causes him to act in inappropriate ways.

I'm a little over half way and even though this doesn't have as much action or as colorful characters as the last one, I'm thoroughly enjoying it. The period details are so vivid. I was in high school at the time of this novel and everything rings true with my memories.

Updike is one of the best when it comes to dialogue, like with he poolside conversation Sam mentions. I love the way he lets us know the characters through their conversations which is how we do it in real life. Rabbit is the only character where we also hear his inner dialogue which makes him seem even worse than he is.

I'm not a fan of Rabbit's behavior but I don't hate him, I feel more sorry for him even as I enjoy the satire.

I think these books are more genuine because they were written much closer to the time in question. Updike captures the times. Like you, Sue, I was around during this period and remember it well and nothing seems off to me.

I also feel sympathy for Rabbit. He is successful in his career because it was given to him, unsuccessful in life on so many levels, and unable to connect with his son.

I wouldn't even want to hear Janice's inner dialogue. I'm not sure why, but I have felt now in all three books that she is worse than Rabbit. On the other hand, I could not understand why he thought the conversation in the car was going to go well or garner any sympathy. But that is another instance in which Updike truly nailed the dialogue.

I didn't mind listening to the interview before finishing the book. He does not talk about this book specifically, it is more a general sense of who Updike was than any reflections on why he wrote these particular characters. He didn't come across as the person I had imagined.

I agree about Janice, Sara. She is largely responsible for the downward spiral in the first two books with her alcoholism and neglect. It doesn't excuse Harry's actions but we can see what caused them. So far neither of them are as bad at the 60% or so point in this book. I did think it was emasculating of Janice to team up with her mom to go against Harry about something with the dealership though. She should have talked to him first. I'm leaving out the details for those who haven't reached that point.

I'm at 55% and I am feeling much sorrier for Rabbit this go around. It is a personal thing, but I do wish he would not obsess over sex so much or link every event and person to a sexual encounter. I do see this as part of Rabbit's personality and part of his inability to deal with life in a mature and thoughtful manner. But, geez, Rabbit, start thinking with your other brain.

I’m only 20% in, so I’m just feeling my way back into Rabbit’s life. It is the same old Rabbit!

And it is still Updike’s writing that is so tangible— like when Harry tastes toothpaste, baloney and Gallo when Janice sticks her tongue in his mouth, while comparing can openers in Consumer Reports.

Sue wrote: "I agree about Janice, Sara. She is largely responsible for the downward spiral in the first two books with her alcoholism and neglect. It doesn't excuse Harry's actions but we can see what caused t..."

Just completed this part and seething. Mim says Janice is "Hard as a nut." and she isn't wrong.

Sara wrote: "I'm at 55% and I am feeling much sorrier for Rabbit this go around. It is a personal thing, but I do wish he would not obsess over sex so much or link every event and person to a sexual encounter. ..."

Exactly! He is way too obsessed with sex.

Terry wrote: "I’m only 20% in, so I’m just feeling my way back into Rabbit’s life. It is the same old Rabbit!

And it is still Updike’s writing that is so tangible— like when Harry tastes toothpaste, baloney an..."

I agree, Terry. He is so good at detail and making a scene come to life.

Sara wrote: "Sue wrote: "I agree about Janice, Sara. She is largely responsible for the downward spiral in the first two books with her alcoholism and neglect. It doesn't excuse Harry's actions but we can see w..."

Ha! Agree, Sara. Mim is definitely not wrong!

I just got to the end of Part II, Sara, and I now understand why you said that you were feeling a little sorry for Rabbit.

Terry wrote: "I just got to the end of Part II, Sara, and I now understand why you said that you were feeling a little sorry for Rabbit."

It is strange how you can truly dislike who Rabbit is and yet feel he is so trapped in this nothing life he has (another reason the name Rabbit fits so well). He is unlikable, but the rest of these people are even worse.

I am almost done (at 85%) and I have some final thoughts on this that I am trying to sort. I always seem to end these books with such mixed reaction...that take some time to settle...they are truly uncomfortable reads for me.

I'm not even sure how Updike does this. I actually get to points in the story when I am saying to myself "I won't read the next one" and then he brings everything in the novel into focus, makes all the disgusting behavior and garbage sentiments into something that contributes to something deeper or higher, and I am somewhat stunned.

(view spoiler)[ From the trip to see Ruth forward, I felt almost like I was reading another book.

Ever since that encounter with Ruth he's felt amputated, a whole world half-seen in the corner of his eye snuffed out.

He lives in a dream world in which he makes up another life, another outcome for his life. A world in which he has a daughter who makes up for the actual son he cannot connect with or feel close to. He hears his mother's voice still calling his childhood name; he realizes what he has lost and what he has never had. The sex is just a way of feeling like he is alive, wanted, seen--I think.

The ending hit me very hard, because this tiny life is everyone's hope. Hope that they will have another chance to get it right. And, something real, with a pulse, that is truly part of him (not a made-up connection, a real one). Someone else to put demands and weight on his shoulders--and, just maybe, someone who will love him and see him as special.

As for Updike's writing, it is superb and yet almost too visceral for me. Life is messy, sex is messy, we are messy; but God I hope few of us are as messy as Rabbit and Janice. I remember well the Carter years. He has nailed the time period; the feel is real, the uncertainty in the midst of the still expanding opportunities; not feeling easy, but still feeling lucky.

One thing I notice in these books is that we are made to understand this is Rabbit's story, not everyone's. Everyone isn't living this way, but there are enough who are to make you feel the emptiness of this new urban society that is so focused on money and career climbing. The farmers are sinking--Ruth is a testament to that. It is the slick and pushy car salesmen who might now represent who we are. Ugly thought. (hide spoiler)]

This one is going slower for me. I think there is a lot more stream of consciousness style in this book than in the previous two novels.

This book has numerous references to escaping — even for the Pope! I got a kick out of that. It is part of Rabbit’s narcissism that he sees everyone as trapped and needing to escape.

I finally finished Rabbit is Rich. I pretty much agree with everything said in this thread, although it definitely took me a long time to get through this one. The sense of time in this novel is even more real due to all the cultural references. Harry seems as clueless as ever, with his inner longings seeking expression through sex.

In the end, I also feel sorry for him, something I think he would hate, by the way. His relationship to his son is a failure, although Nelson finally does what his father wants him to do. He loses his dream of a daughter, although Ruth may be lying. He is always searching for more than he has.

He gets a granddaughter instead. He does seem to be a little self satisfied with that, the new house, a den, a wing-back chair, the Celica, the new TV, Cuisinart for Janice — possibly resigned to his rabbit trap? With this novel, now with the perspective of the previous two, it seems like Updike is making comments on the American culture of consumerism, the idea of the American dream being the trap, elusive and also false or dissatisfying when attained. Or only finally acceptable? Because the pursuit is the trap?

Sorry to ramble on… I do think Updike is a pretty amazing writer. These novels are puzzling in a way unlike others.

I love what you have said here, Terry. Updike does seem to be saying that everything Americans are reaching for is shallow and fleeting and they, like Rabbit, are missing the riches right in front of them...family and values and friendships vs. things.

I don't think Ruth is lying. I think Rabbit's whole life is built on dreaming up another scenario instead of cultivating the good life he might have. It is why he is always, always thinking of sex and how good it would be with someone else, even though he tells us it is good with Janice. I wonder if this granddaughter might open his eyes.

the idea of the American dream being the trap, elusive and also false or dissatisfying when attained. Perfect!

I agree with you both. I do find Updike is a little cynical in trying to portray a world without the sugar coating, and also feel a lot of the satire is lost with present views that are a lot less tolerant of the humorous exploitative examples of sex, violence, .etc. of the latter 20th century when the freedom to use such examples seemed to get abused by the authors. I also see Rabbit being tempered by age and wonder if his seeming now controlled desires are a statement of a general growth we all go through in the U.S. as we get older or a statement on the society's values. It is hard to tell since I think there is a little of both. Good to share the reading with you.

Good thoughts, Sam. I find Updike is a mixed bag and often does not limit himself to one point but makes numerous ones. I agree, as well, that the changes in our society over time has changed our view of what he writes. I wonder how I would have reacted if I had read this when it was written. Rabbit was created fast on the heels of Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, and public over-the-top references to sex and violence were a very new thing.