Amazon exiles discussion

17 views
Sport > "BALL UP!" - Val's 2025 Aussie Rules Footy Tipping *Open to Everyone*

Comments Showing 201-250 of 685 (685 new)    post a comment »

message 201: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Last night's game:

Tonight's result:

Collingwood Magpies (available) v Sydney Swans (Anita)
4.3.27 (Q1) 4.1.25
10.7.67 (Q2) 8.2.50
13.11.89 (Q3) 10.4.64
16.13.109 (Q4) 12.6.78

Not much of a spectacle unless you were a Pies fan. So annoying!


message 202: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's results:

North Melbourne Kangaroos (Steve) v Gold Coast Suns (Suzy)
3.7.25 (Q1) 6.1.37
7.9.51 (Q2) 9.5.59
11.9.75 (Q3) 14.10.94
13.11.89 (Q4) 21.15.141

Carlton Blues (available) v West Coast Eagles (Sussex)
3.6.24 (Q1) 1.3.9
7.11.53 (Q2) 3.6.24
11.15.81 (Q3) 4.12.36
17.19.121 (Q4) 6.14.50

Western Bulldogs (Tazz) v Brisbane Lions (Jed)
2.4.16 (Q1) 3.3.21
9.8.62 (Q2) 4.5.29
11.12.78 (Q3) 11.6.72
14.13.97 (Q4) 18.10.118

Melbourne Demons (available) v Essendon Bombers (Val)
1.4.10 (Q1) 3.4.22
2.5.17 (Q2) 7.4.46
7.7.49 (Q3) 10.5.65
8.9.57 (Q4) 15.6.96

Mixed fortunes today. The Roos hung in there till half time before succumbing to the rampant Suns. The Blues finally got on the board. The Bulldogs were looking good but the Lions woke up at half time and that was that. I thought the same was going to happen to the Bombers when the Demons started putting their game together in the third quarter. Fortunately my boys held their nerve although I'm not sure Nic Martin's goal should stand - May was robbed!


message 203: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's results:

Richmond Tigers (Philip) v Fremantle Dockers (available)
4.2.26 (Q1) 4.4.28
6.3.39 (Q2) 7.7.49
7.3.45 (Q3) 13.8.86
7.5.47 (Q4) 16.12.108

St Kilda Saints (Tim) v GWS Giants (Duke)
4.1.25 (Q1) 4.3.27
5.4.34 (Q2) 8.6.54
8.7.55 (Q3) 16.9.105
12.10.82 (Q4) 16.14.110

Port Adelaide Power (available) v Hawthorn Hawks (available)
6.3.39 (Q1) 1.2.8
12.7.79 (Q2) 3.2.20
14.10.94 (Q3) 7.5.47
18.13.121 (Q4) 14.7.91

That last game was a real eye-opener! Port could do no wrong - they looked awesome. But the Hawks fought back. At one point they were 12 goals down! Losing by 5 sounds a lot better.


message 204: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Our tipsters' ladder is as follows:

ROUND FIVE (first number is correct number of wins - you want this to be high; number in brackets is the cumulative margin which is used to separate punters on the same amount of points - you want this to be low)

Duke on 7 (24)
Philip on 7 (39)
Sj Brooke (Steve) on 6 (30)
Anita on 6 (33)
Jed on 6 (36)
Tim on 6 (38)
Val on 6 (41)
SussexWelsh on 5 (43)
Suzy on 3 (12)
Tazz on 2 (53)

Charity donations are:
Suzy (Friends With Dignity) - A$8.00 - Highest score (Suns - 141)
Suzy (Friends With Dignity) - A$8.00 (closest margin)
Duke (Centre For Eye Research Australia) - A$14.00 (weekly winner)

CUMULATIVE LADDER:

Jed on 34 (170)
Tim on 33 (165)
Sj Brooke (Steve) on 32 (143)
SussexWelsh on 31 (169)
Val on 28 (144)
Duke on 27 (203)
Anita on 26 (235)
Philip on 25 (209)
Tazz on 25 (229)
Suzy on 9 (87)

I do hope all is well with Tazz. He mentioned flu last week. We'd hate to lose him when he just arrived. Congratulations to our winners. The money is mounting up - for some! As ever, please do check your scores. I do make mistakes!


message 205: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments N.B. PLEASE SUBMIT YOUR TIPS EARLY!!! THERE'S A THURSDAY NIGHT GAME!!!

If anyone would like to view the AFL Ladder before submitting next week's tips, it's at http://www.afl.com.au/ladder
or https://www.theroar.com.au/afl/afl-la...

ROUND 6

Thursday April 17
Brisbane Lions v Collingwood Magpies (in Brisbane)

Friday April 18
North Melbourne Kangaroos v Carlton Blues (in Melbourne)
West Coast Eagles v Essendon Bombers (in Perth)

Saturday April 19
Melbourne Demons v Fremantle Dockers (in Melbourne)
Adelaide Crows v GWS Giants (in Adelaide)
Richmond Tigers v Gold Coast Suns (in Melbourne)

Sunday April 20
Sydney Swans v Port Adelaide Power (in Sydney)
Western Bulldogs v St Kilda Saints (in Melbourne)
Geelong Cats v Hawthorn Hawks (in Melbourne)

If punters could lodge their tips by midnight WEDNESDAY April 16 (U.K. time) it would be a great help, although I can accept them up until 10.30am THURSDAY (U.K. time) if absolutely necessary.


message 206: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Every team analysed after Round 5 in just three words.

ADELAIDE CROWS: Defence an issue.

BRISBANE LIONS: New comeback kings?

CARLTON: Alright. Now again.

COLLINGWOOD: (Ned) Long brilliant find.

ESSENDON: Another defensive tick?

FREMANTLE: Built some percentage.

GEELONG: Damn good win.

GOLD COAST SUNS: History says finals...

GWS GIANTS: (Lachie) Ash seriously underrated.

HAWTHORN: Aren’t flying now.

MELBOURNE: Goodwin’s seat burning.

NORTH MELBOURNE: Signs, then faded.

PORT ADELAIDE: (Coach) Ken’s (Hinkley's) sweet redemption.

RICHMOND: Great half. Lessons.

ST KILDA: Slight reality check.

SYDNEY SWANS: Need bodies back.

WEST COAST EAGLES: Not AFL standard.

WESTERN BULLDOGS: So painful. Again.


message 207: by theDuke (last edited Apr 13, 2025 02:31PM) (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments Val wrote: "Our tipsters' ladder is as follows:

ROUND FIVE (first number is correct number of wins - you want this to be high; number in brackets is the cumulative margin which is used to separate punters on ..."


I'll send him a message Val, check up and see if he's okay...he's probably bed ridden with that flu! Stoked to win my first round, thought i might get 8, it would seem Port isn't done just yet! The Suns are playing on another level this season, Hardwick has done wonders for them....definitely a finals contender now, maybe even minor premiers too.


message 208: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Those of you who follow our game closely may appreciate this article on the ABC's News site:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-1...

It made me laugh anyway!

"Back then they (the AFL) couldn't have predicted it, but by the time we all gathered for this round the four teams playing on centre stage on Saturday came in with a combined season record of 1-15. Either by bad luck or bad design, the AFL had created its first ever Gather Round Sicko Saturday — a double-header to be savoured only by the truest and most depraved footy nuts."

and

"the early (Saturday game) between winless Carlton and winless West Coast was a disaster. If there's a worse game this year, just hope you don't accidentally watch it. ..... Identifying a low ebb from the afternoon is tough. Was it Charlie Curnow missing a five-metre handball to a teammate in an open goal and accidentally rushing a behind? It could have been Jake Waterman trying to sidestep Mitch McGovern on centre wing, only to forget to actually change directions before running straight into the Carlton defenders' arms. Maybe it was Jack Williams's brain overheating and shutting down when all alone 20 metres from goal, neither passing or shooting and instead chipping it to nothing and through for a point. ... Positives for West Coast? Tom Gross looks promising. Liam Ryan played well. The draft is in about seven months."

and

"Or maybe (the AFL) can just lean into the Sicko Saturday concept and reserve one Gather Round day a year for some proper slop. It might just make us savour the good games that bit more."

Worth a read!


message 209: by Jed (new)

Jed Fkn Smoko! | 242 comments Lions by 7

Blues
Bombers

Dockers
Crows
Suns

Swans
Saints
Hawks


message 210: by Sj (new)

Sj Brooke | 2519 comments Brisbane Lions +17

Carlton Blues
Essendon Bombers

Fremantle Dockers
GWS Giants
Gold Coast Suns

Sydney Swans
Western Bulldogs
Hawthorn Hawks


message 211: by SussexWelsh (new)

SussexWelsh | 7448 comments .
.
Lions by 10
Blues
Bombers
Dockers
Giants
Suns
Swans
Bulldogs
Cats


message 212: by Tim (new)

Tim Watts (redswatts) | 551 comments Swans were poor and missing too many players. Not much bright news on that front either although Callum Mills may be back in another couple of weeks.
This week
Lions by 8... in a tight match which the Pies could sneak
Blues... although expect another tight one
Bombers
Dockers
Giants...should be a cracker
Suns
Swans
Saints...again very tight
Cats...only because of home ground advantage

Some really well-matched games this week and tough tipping.


message 213: by Philip (last edited Apr 16, 2025 05:00AM) (new)

Philip | 489 comments .
.
Collingwood x 20
Carlton
Essendon
Fremantle
GWS
Gold Coast
Sydney
Western
Geelong


message 214: by suzysunshine7 (new)

suzysunshine7 | 16038 comments WoW! ... I seem to be doing really well despite my absence! ;o>

Thank you for punting on my behalf when I cannot be here, Val ... x


message 215: by Anita (new)

Anita Bailey | 3842 comments mine
Lions by 19
blues
eagles
dockers
crows
suns
SWANS
bulldogs
hawks


message 216: by theDuke (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments Round 6:

Lions - 6 (50/50)
Blues
Bombers
Dockers
Crows (50/50)
Suns
Swans (depends which side Port brings with them, but playing it safe)
Dogs (50/50)
Hawks (Hawthorn's home turf, not at the cattery Tim)


message 217: by Tim (new)

Tim Watts (redswatts) | 551 comments Thanks for confirming Duke. The AFL site on google does say it is at the Cattery but just checked and although it is a Geelong "home" game it is at the MCG. This happens more than it should for the Cats and their fans. Makes a bit of a mockery of all the money spent on upgrading the Cattery.
In light of this may I change my tip to the Hawks, Val? I think this match will be tight and it may well come down to home ground advantage.
Does anyone know what has happened to the Lez Lee Memorial punt this week. I have no new posts since Anita's on 12th April. No idea of how many weeks the next punt is?


message 218: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Happy to change your tip to the Hawks Tim. I think Geelong must have agreed to the change of venue. It has the twin advantage of more money from gate receipts plus more experience of playing on the bigger 'G.

I'm confused by the EPL punt - "in by Saturday 12th"???


message 219: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Suzy's tips:

Collingwood by 7
North Melb.
Eagles
Demons
Crows
Richmond
Port
Saints
Cats


message 220: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Mine:

Lions x 9
Roos
Dons
Freo
Giants
Suns
Swans
Dogs
Cats


message 221: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Tonight's result:

Brisbane Lions (Jed) v Collingwood Magpies (available)
2.4.16 (Q1) 4.2.26
4.8.32 (Q2) 8.3.51
5.8.38 (Q3) 12.8.80
7.11.53 (Q4) 16.9.105

Not a very exciting game unless you were a Collingwood fan. Philip (only he and Suzy tipped the Pies) was nearest the pin and wins $8.00 for Canteen.


message 222: by SussexWelsh (new)

SussexWelsh | 7448 comments Lez Lee Football punt information updated


message 223: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's/night's results:

North Melbourne Kangaroos (Steve) v Carlton Blues (available)
2.2.14 (Q1) 7.3.45
6.3.39 (Q2) 9.5.59
7.4.46 (Q3) 15.6.96
11.5.71 (Q4) 24.9.153

West Coast Eagles (Sussex) v Essendon Bombers (Val)
5.0.30 (Q1) 1.2.8
7.3.45 (Q2) 4.3.27
9.7.61 (Q3) 9.7.61
11.9.75 (Q4) 11.11.77

I didn't see anything of the early game but the result speaks for itself. Tonight's game was not an easy watch - the Eagles came out the blocks fast but sagged in the middle and left their late challenge too late. Essendon scraped home but injuries to Sam Draper and Xavier Duursma are worrying. They need to be better than this if they want to compete with teams above them on the ladder.


message 224: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments With four minutes to the bounce, I'm changing my tip to the Crows. GWS are without Jesse Hogan, Brent Daniels, Stephen Coniglio so it's the Crows at home for me.


message 225: by theDuke (last edited Apr 19, 2025 12:16AM) (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments I am expecting the Crows v GWS game to be very tight, and it is so far, but a very low scoring match.


message 226: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's results:

Melbourne Demons (available) v Fremantle Dockers (available)
6.1.37 (Q1) 4.2.26
12.2.74 (Q2) 8.5.53
15.5.95 (Q3) 11.10.76
16.11.107 (Q4) 14.13.97

Adelaide Crows (available) v GWS Giants (Duke)
3.2.20 (Q1) 0.3.3
3.5.23 (Q2) 1.4.10
6.7.43 (Q3) 2.8.20
6.8.44 (Q4) 4.9.27

Richmond Tigers (Philip) v Gold Coast Suns (Suzy)
3.4.22 (Q1) 2.3.15
6.5.41 (Q2) 3.9.27
12.6.78 (Q3) 4.11.35
12.8.80 (Q4) 9.15.69

What a day! The Demons break their losing streak, a total snooze-fest in Adelaide with neither side able to score goals and a huge win for the lowly (very young, very inexperienced) Tigers over the unbeaten Suns. You can't help barracking for the underdog and the last few minutes of tonight's game was heart-stopping! Well done Tiges! Most of us are sitting on 2 wins, Suzy had 4!


message 227: by suzysunshine7 (new)

suzysunshine7 | 16038 comments ... ! ... ! ... !

;oO


message 228: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's results:

Sydney Swans (Anita) v Port Adelaide Power (available)
1.2.8 (Q1) 4.2.26
2.7.19 (Q2) 7.4.46
5.9.39 (Q3) 10.7.67
10.17.77 (Q4) 13.7.85

Western Bulldogs (Tazz) v St Kilda Saints (Tim)
3.5.23 (Q1) 4.1.25
8.8.56 (Q2) 4.4.28
13.13.91 (Q3) 6.8.44
18.19.127 (Q4) 8.8.56


message 229: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Today's result:

Geelong Cats (available) v Hawthorn Hawks (available)
4.5.29 (Q1) 2.6.18
7.8.50 (Q2) 5.10.40
10.12.72 (Q3) 9.12.66
12.14.86 (Q4) 11.13.79

The AFL likes to talk every game up as "traditional rivals" but the Cats and Hawks do have a lot of history and this game was meant to be the highlight of the round. Nearly 89,000 fans filled the MCG on a balmy Easter Monday and saw a thrilling game. The Cats may have led all day but the Hawks were never more than a few goals behind - 3 at one point but scores were level in the final quarter. It was too tense for me. I spent most of the afternoon in the kitchen baking but I could hear the cheers (and boos) and I did keep one eye on the scores. One for the ages.


message 230: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Our tipsters' ladder is as follows:

ROUND SIX (first number is correct number of wins - you want this to be high; number in brackets is the cumulative margin which is used to separate punters on the same amount of points - you want this to be low)

Suzy on 6 (45)
Philip on 5 (32)
Duke on 4 (58)
Val on 4 (61)
SussexWelsh on 4 (62)
Jed on 3 (59)
Sj Brooke (Steve) on 3 (69)
Anita on 3 (71)
Tim on 2 (60)
Tazz on 1 (81)

Charity donations are:
To be re-distributed at the end of the season - A$8.00 - Highest score (Blues - 153)
Philip (Canteen) - A$8.00 (closest margin)
Suzy (Friends With Dignity) - A$14.00 (weekly winner)

CUMULATIVE LADDER:

Jed on 37 (229)
Sj Brooke (Steve) on 35 (212)
Tim on 35 (225)
SussexWelsh on 35 (231)
Val on 32 (205)
Duke on 31 (261)
Philip on 30 (241)
Anita on 29 (306)
Tazz on 26 (310)
Suzy on 15 (132)

It was one of those rounds where most of us came undone and Suzy romped in. She's raking in the money for her charity. Well done girl!

Please check your scores!!!


message 231: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments N.B. PLEASE SUBMIT YOUR TIPS EARLY!!! THERE'S A THURSDAY NIGHT GAME!!!

If anyone would like to view the AFL Ladder before submitting next week's tips, it's at http://www.afl.com.au/ladder
or https://www.theroar.com.au/afl/afl-la...

ROUND 7

Thursday April 24
Melbourne Demons v Richmond Tigers (in Melbourne)

Friday April 25
Collingwood Magpies v Essendon Bombers (in Melbourne)
Fremantle Dockers v Adelaide Crows (in Perth)

Saturday April 26
St Kilda Saints v Brisbane Lions
Port Adelaide Power v North Melbourne Kangaroos (in Adelaide)
GWS Giants v Western Bulldogs (in Canberra)

Sunday April 27
Gold Coast Suns v Sydney Swans (on the Gold Coast)
Carlton Blues v Geelong Cats (in Melbourne)
Hawthorn Hawks v West Coast Eagles (in Melbourne)

If punters could lodge their tips by midnight WEDNESDAY April 23 (U.K. time) it would be a great help, although I can accept them up until 10.30am THURSDAY (U.K. time) if absolutely necessary.


message 232: by suzysunshine7 (new)

suzysunshine7 | 16038 comments Ohhh WoW!!! ... I certainly am enjoying this season thank you, Val! ... ;o>

And congratulations to Philip for getting the closest margin ... x


message 233: by Sj (last edited Apr 22, 2025 02:08PM) (new)

Sj Brooke | 2519 comments ROUND 7

Melbourne Demons +30

Collingwood Magpies
Adelaide Crows

Brisbane Lions
Port Adelaide Power
GWS Giants

Gold Coast Suns
Geelong Cats
Hawthorn Hawks


message 234: by Jed (new)

Jed Fkn Smoko! | 242 comments Demons by 21

Magpies
Crows

Lions
Power
Giants

Suns
Cats
Hawks


message 235: by Tim (new)

Tim Watts (redswatts) | 551 comments What a disastrous weekend. The Swans injury list shows no signs of improving with many out for at least 5 weeks. Main concern is we have no strikers as witnessed against Port where scoring shots by Swans outnumbered those by Port by 7. Hopefully the McCartin experiment can well and truly be dumped now. Logan McDonald played in the VFL (reserves) at the weekend, but a further strain has been detected.
I will be off to the Swans game on Sunday but with little hope of a miracle.
My predictions

Demons by 18
Pies... but given the atmosphere at a packed MCG anything can happen
Dockers...just wish to do something different
Lions
Port
Giants...but in Canberra so could be a surprise
Suns
Cats
Hawks


message 236: by Anita (new)

Anita Bailey | 3842 comments mine
demons by 18
magpies
crows
lions
power
giants
SWANS
blues
haeks


message 237: by theDuke (last edited Apr 23, 2025 09:13PM) (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments Round 7:

Tigers - 1 (I'm not convinced by Melbourne, despite their win last week. The Tigers are showing more promise & have laid to rest the belief of some whom thought that Richmond wouldn't win a game all season. I think Richmond can do it, but not by much!)

Maggies (by miles & miles...and miles!)

Dockers (50/50 - going with home ground advantage, but Crows could scalp them easily)

Lions (Just not at all confident with the champs, they need to get off the line much quicker, Saints could get up here but going with the favs.)

Power (margin booster game for Port)

GWS (not confident, & these clubs haaaaate each other! Bullies have had the high ground for the last couple of years, thus, if they win, it won't be an upset) I hope Tazz comes back, this is a great game for us two!

Suns (Sydney need a big scalp, and this could be it, but their injuries aren't helping things)

Cats (I don't like the Cats, so i would love it if the Blues got one over them, but unlikely)

Hawks (Two bird of preys, one will get ripped apart - my sympathies to those poor Eagles!)

And for those of you that are playing it - my gauntlet tip: Port Adelaide.


message 238: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Don’t like the Cats?? Everyone loves the Cats! If you ever saw the film/read the book Moneyball, that’s the Cats’ philosophy. They draft the players they need and they don’t pay big bucks for them. None of their players are paid more than they’re worth, unlike many other teams. And they manage their older players so well - Patrick Dangerfield at 35 is playing his best footy ever. They also have a great plan of banking as many games as they can early in the season so that even when injury/exhaustion hits, they’re still there in the finals. Many of us wish our clubs were run as well as those in charge at the Cattery.


message 239: by theDuke (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments Val wrote: "Don’t like the Cats?? Everyone loves the Cats! If you ever saw the film/read the book Moneyball, that’s the Cats’ philosophy. They draft the players they need and they don’t pay big bucks for them...."

I don't like Dangerfield!


message 240: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Nooooooooo!!!!! Paddy’s a legend!


message 241: by Philip (new)

Philip | 489 comments Thanks for the reminder Val and hope I am still in time for the first match.

Melbourne +40
Collingwood
Adelaide
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
GWS
Gold Coast
Geelong
Hawthorn


message 242: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Suzy's tips:

Richmond by 7 points
Essendon
Fremantle
St Kilda
North Melbourne
Western Bulldogs
Sydney
Carlton
Eagles


message 243: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Looking forward to some great spectacle tonight and tomorrow. Tomorrow is ANZAC Day (a public holiday with nearly everything closed until at least 1.00pm), considered Australia's most sacred day, commemorating all those who have served, and are currently serving, in the defence forces. The MCG will be packed for both games and the AFL does a great job in providing solemn and moving observance of the sacrifice made by so many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1zba...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA_-Z...

Essendon and Collingwood seem to bring out the best in each other on ANZAC day (last year it was a fitting draw) but I suspect it will be a black and white whitewash tomorrow with Essendon missing their first and second choice ruckmen to season-ending injuries and a few others out too.


message 244: by SussexWelsh (new)

SussexWelsh | 7448 comments .
.
Tigers by 8
Magpies
Dockers
Saints
Power
Bulldogs
Suns
Cats
Hawks


message 245: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments It was 26 degrees in Melbourne today and still 23 as I write. Unfortunately there are some showers forecast for tomorrow. Hopefully it won't impact the Dawn Service and the ANZAC Day parade.


message 246: by Val (last edited Apr 24, 2025 03:24AM) (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments My tips:

Dees x 15
Pies (boo!!!)
Crows
Lions
Port
Giants
Suns
Cats
Hawks


message 247: by theDuke (last edited Apr 24, 2025 02:52AM) (new)

theDuke | 6492 comments You've tipped Lions twice Val! ;-)


message 248: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Thanks Duke. Senior moment. Supposed to be Giants. I'll edit.


message 249: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Great game at the G tonight. Low scoring but Tigers are holding their own.


message 250: by Val (new)

Val H. | 22149 comments Tonight's result:

Melbourne Demons (available) v Richmond Tigers (Philip)
3.2.20 (Q1) 2.3.15
5.4.34 (Q2) 4.6.30
11.7.73 (Q3) 5.8.38
12.11.83 (Q4) 9.9.63

Defeat by 20 points isn't that bad a result. Note the Demons scored one goal in the final quarter to the Tigers' four. At one point I was confident Philip's tip of a 40 point margin was home and hosed but at the final siren it was Jed who was only out by 1 point and so wins $8.00 for the Great Barrier Reef Foundation. Great work!


back to top