The History Book Club discussion

Bentley wrote: "Thank you Aussie Rick for not only posting the book cover and the author/photo link and doing it so well; but also for giving such a moving account for some of these books (helps folks understand a..."

Hi Bentley, I just added to that post that the information I posted with the book came from the publisher. I will need to clarify the information I use, won't forget next time but it is a very good book. Eight brothers go off to War, only three return and one of those is crippled, talk about a family's sacrifice!

Ed wrote: "Bentley, you are doing a superb job at making this book club fun!

WWI is a minor obsession of mine. I visit the battlefields often. Also, I have read hundreds of memoirs and other first-hand acc..."

Hi Ed,

I've just managed to track down a copy of "There's a Devil in the Drum" from overseas. Its a hard book to find! I will add it with the rest of my good books to read but place it up on top :)

by John F Lucy.

Ed wrote: "Bentley, you are doing a superb job at making this book club fun!

WWI is a minor obsession of mine. I visit the battlefields often. Also, I have read hundreds of memoirs and other first-hand acc..."

Hi Ed,

I had to go check my library as I was sure I had a copy of "Cannon Fodder", it took me a bit of digging about but I found it, I will have to add it to my to-read list!

Cannon Fodder An Infantryman's Life on the Western Front, 1914-18 by A. Stuart Dolden

Have you read the book below at all? I had to try and find a copy after it was mentioned and highly recommended in a number of WW1 books. I managed to track down a nice hardback copy but alas I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
by J.C. Dunn

Thinking about Ed's selections reminded me that sometimes when reading a good book you tend to forget the human aspects of the conflict you are reading about. The occasional book will jolt you back to remembering that you are reading about your fellow man who is caught up in a horrifying conflict. The first-hand accounts from the veterans bring it all home sometimes and I am always amazed at how they endured such terrible conditions and kept on going. I think we do need to be reminded that history is sometimes also about suffering. I think the best book for me that did this was:

by Max Arthur

And for something different:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEl2mC...

Aussie Rick..I think you raise an excellent point..think about our environment while reading the book versus their environment while living through their particular hell.

They had a will to live and they were luckier than the others. So many never had any chance whatsoever.

For those who enjoy books covering campaigns and battles other than the Western Front I would like to recommend this following book by an Australian author:

by Les Carlyon
"We mounted over a plateau and down through gullies filled with thyme, where there lay about 4000 Turkish dead. It was indescribable. One was grateful for the rain and the grey sky. A Turkish Red Crescent man came and gave me some antiseptic wool with scent on it... The Turkish captain with me said: "At this spectacle even the most gentle must feel savage, and the most savage must weep' ... I talked to the Turks, one of whom pointed to the graves. 'That's politics,' he said. Then he pointed to the dead bodies and said: 'That's diplomacy. God pity all us poor soldiers.'" - Captain Aubrey Herbert, ANZAC, May 1915 (taken from the inside dust-jacket of the book).

The youtube was clever. Like Cash.

Bentley wrote: "The youtube was clever. Like Cash."

Hi Bentley, so do I, the music fits the images well.

Bentley wrote: "Aussie Rick..I think you raise an excellent point..think about our environment while reading the book versus their environment while living through their particular hell.

They had a will to live..."

I have always wondered if my/our generation could have done the same thing? In the movie "Gallipoli" with Mel Gibson when the Light Horse charge the Turkish trenches at the Nek, after the first two waves were decimated by the Turks the third and fourth waves still went over knowning that they had no chance and were going to die. "Goodbye Cobber, God Bless You" one said to his mate before going over the top and he was killed.

Goodbye Cobber, God Bless You by John Hamilton
"Follows the men who fought and died in the Charge of the Light Brigade, August 7th, 1915 - from the recruiting frenzy of August 1914, to their training camps, to Egypt, to the peninsula itself, to that fatal morning." - From the publishers

Ed, thank you very much for adding what you consider to be some of the best memoirs and other first hand accounts written about WWI.

It really helps when you frame the recommendations that you have made like you did.

I am also fascinated by World War I in some ways. I have not visited all of the battlefields as you have; but walking Verdun just recently and all the related sites and villages were an eye opener for me. I cannot even believe the forts that they had were that inhabitable; but I guess it certainly beat being in the trenches.

Note: I added the books alongside the author; we like to add the book cover when available (which you did - thank you) and the author's photo when available side by side; if the author's photo is not available we link the cover to the author's link. This allows all membership to research the author too; especially if there is a fan site already set up. Additionally, it adds to the white space on the right; a list of all authors mentioned in the thread which can be printed out in addition to a separate list of book titles (all of these are also linked). It is a great cross referencing tool because when both are added; it populates in so many other spots automatically.


John F. Lucy


Edmund Blunden


Hervey Allen

Desert Column by Ion L. Idriess


Sherston's Progress


Of Those We Loved by I.L. Read


F.C. Hitchcock




I am sorry that I did not get to watch the youtubes until today; but I wanted to give them their due. They were moving in every way. Thank you for bringing them to the attention of the group.

For those interested, below is a new release due out soon in the US:


by Holger H. Herwig

This author previously published:

by Holger H. Herwig
"This book draws on ten years of archival research to provide the first comprehensive treatment in English of how Germany and Austria-Hungary conducted World War I and what defeat meant to them." - From the Publisher

Two books for those who are really serious about tracing all aspects of the Somme fighting or who wish to plan a trip around the Somme battlefields should consider these two books:

by Martin Middlebrook
"The French "department" of the Somme witnessed innumerable battles and acts of war, dating back to the time of the Roman occupation. William the Conqueror set sail from a port on the Somme coast to invade England, the French and British fought at Crecy in 1346 and Henry V's army marched through the area on its way to Agincourt in 1415. In 1870 the region was invaded by the Prussians. Within the next 80 years, two world wars swept back and forth across the Somme and the history of the region became still more closely linked with that of Britain. There were three major battles in the area during World War I and the troops of the British Empire were closely involved and suffered great losses on each occasion. Approximately half of the 400,000 soldiers who died on the Somme in 1914-18 were British. After the war, 242 British cemeteries sprang up and the bodies of 50,000 men that were never found still lie under the Somme fields. In this book the authors record every battle that has taken place on the Somme, from the earliest Roman invasion to the day in 1944 when Allied forces advancing from Normandy swept the Germans out of the Somme. They also provide a fully illustrated guide to its military cemetries, memorials, preserved trenches, craters and other reminders of battle. Martin Middlebrook also wrote 'The First Day on the Somme' and 'The Kaiser's Battle'." - From the Publisher

The Battle of the Somme A Topographical History by Gerald Gliddon

Below is a recent publication in Australia (2008) that was shown as a TV documentary on The History Channel.

The Western Front Diaries The Anzacs' Own Story, Battle by Battle by Jonathan King

"Using hundreds of brutally honest and extraordinary eyewitness accounts of the diggers in the muddy and bloody trenches, Western Front Diaries reproduces their private diaries, letters and postcards to tell of their heart-rending experiences, battle by bloody battle. With its gallery of unpublished photographs, Western Front Diaries tells without embellishment the stories of the Australian soldiers." - From the Publisher


This book is over 575 pages and it’s actually quite an easy book to read considering its put together with numerous first-hand accounts taken from diaries, letters, etc. Although the constant reminder that numerous contributors didn't make it through the war can sometimes overwhelm the reader with sadness.

Thank you Aussie Rick for so many recommendations and comments.

Bentley wrote: "Thank you Aussie Rick for so many recommendations and comments."

Hi Bentley,

My pleasure, hopefully someone will like one of the suggestions and follow it up. I am more than happy to help if anyone has any questions that I may be able to assist with in regards to a good book or two :)

Especially with Remembrance Day this month reading Max Arthur was a moving and salutary experience. A thoroughly good read too!

Harvey wrote: "Especially with Remembrance Day this month reading Max Arthur was a moving and salutary experience. A t..."

Hi Harvey,

Have you read Max Arthur's first book:

by Max Arthur

Its a great book taken from interviews with veterans and at times it is an extremely moving acount.

Rick, you asked if I had read Dunn's book, The War the Infantry Knew. Something tells me I may have done so before I started keeping a list of books read about fifteen years ago, but I'm not sure. By reputation, at least, it's supposed to be excellent.

And I agree with the recommendations of Max Arthur's books. He was kind enough to send me a signed copy of his first book, which I'm proud to own.

Ed

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "For those interested, below is a new release due out soon in the US:


by [author:Holger H. ..."

Herwig is one of the best scholars of the war living today. But beware, some of his previous work has been pretty dry ;)

Edward wrote: "Rick, you asked if I had read Dunn's book, The War the Infantry Knew. Something tells me I may have done so before I started keeping a list of books read about fifteen years ago, but I'm not sure. ..."

Hi Ed,

very envious that you have a signed copy! Some of the first-hand accounts from his book "Forgotten Voices of the Great War" are excellent. When I first saw it in a bookshop I wasn't too sure if I would enjoy a book made up from different accounts but I found it extremely well put together and couldn't put it down.

In regards to Holger Herwig I must confess to only having read his book covering Germany & Austria-Hungary during WW1 which was novel as there were not many in the English language that I could find prior to this publication.

No, I have not read Forgotten Voices, but I will look out for it, I'm guessing it is very much the same style as Last Post, which is more than fine with me. Last Post was an excellent read as it highlighted the details that broader accounts cannot do. Thanks Rick!

Harvey wrote: "No, I have not read Forgotten Voices, but I will look out for it, I'm guessing it is very much the same style as Last Post, which is more than fine with me. Last Post was an excellent read as it hi..."


Hi Harvey,

I think you'll find "Forgotten Voices" a very good book, he wrote it before "Last Post" and I dare say that most of the men in that book are also in "Forgotten Voices". I found it one of the best books covering first-hand accounts from the Great War so I hope you manage to track down a copy and enjoy it.

Lots of great books listed already. Here are a few more that I really liked.

Pierre Berton - A very readable account of the Canadian victory at Vimy Ridge, much of it told through the eyes of individuals.

Pat Beauchamp - A memoir of life with the First Aid Nursing Yeomanry (FANY) in Belgium and France.

Janet Lee - This provides a more comprehensive and sociological examination of the FANY.

Diana Preston
- This detailed examination of that tragic sinking reads like a gripping first-hand account.

Laura M. MacDonald - An excellent chronicle that brings to life the devastating Halifax Explosion.

Tapestry of war A private view of Canadians in the Great War by Sandra Gwyn - Another readable account of Canadians at war on the Home Front and on the battlefields.

Guess I did something wrong. I thought that the cover and author would appear, not just the links.

You need to click the other button - one says "link" the other "cover," on the add book/author form.

Thanks, Susanna! Changes made.

Gabriele wrote: "Lots of great books listed already. Here are a few more that I really liked.

Pierre Berton - A very readable account of the Canadian victory at Vimy Ridge, ..."

Hi Gabriele, Welcome to the WW1 thread of The History Book Club. I liked your recommendations, I have read Diane Preston's book on the Lusitania and also the book; "Curse of the Narrows", two well told tales of such tragedy. I have Pierre Berton's book on Vimy Ridge to read yet. I also have a copy of Alexander McKee's book on the same subject. I have walked around Vimy Ridge and the Canadian Memorial, a very touching area. I hope you enjoy your time here discussing good books, etc.

Rick
by Alexander McKee

Thanks, Aussie Rick! As you can see by my avatar, I was also at Vimy - a very moving experience. Visiting the battlefields and cemeteries, and seeing the Menin Gate ceremony were unforgettable as well.

I live in John McCrae's home town, but was amazed to find that he seems to be more famous in Ypres than here! His birthplace is a lovely small museum that sees lots of international visitors.

Gabriele wrote: "Thanks, Aussie Rick! As you can see by my avatar, I was also at Vimy - a very moving experience. Visiting the battlefields and cemeteries, and seeing the Menin Gate ceremony were unforgettable as ..."

It's pretty sad and humbling walking around the Commonwealth War Graves in France & Flanders and seeing the many Maple Leaf and Rising Sun emblems scattered throughout the headstones. I was surprised to read that about John McCrae but I suppose you could almost say that Ypres was his birthplace for many people. I recently picked up a copy of Mark Zuehlke’s book covering a Canadian unit in the Great War but have not had the chance to read it yet. I enjoy reading about both our countries soldiers fighting on the Western Front, our armies and men were very similar but I have found it hard to get a reasonably priced book covering the Canadian forces so far.

[image error] by Mark Zuehlke

I read close to 100 books on the war for my research, and will post a few more that I particularly liked. But there is one that came out recently, which sounds interesting and has garnered awards - by Tim Cook

Fascinating fictionalized versions of WW1 by people who had been there:

Charles Yale Harrison - Said to be a YA novel but realistic and gritty, so... for all to get a better idea of war through the eyes of a soldier.

V.M. Yeates - An engrossing tale from the perspective of a pilot.

Thanks for that, I have seen this book before and have been tossing up whether to buy a copy or not, I will look around and see if I can find an affordable copy. Your not burnt out after reading all those books on what can be a depressing subject? I see that this author has published an early book:

by Tim Cook

I will probably need to get both volumes, now look what you have done :)

Sorry! I was really caught up in the research, but am now working on the 1920s, so not planning to do any more WW1 reading at the moment. But that era is very dear to my heart, and always will be. Honestly, I couldn't get enough of it at the time, and spent hours daily as well on a couple of WW1 forums. My family teased me about my obsession!

Gabriele wrote: "Sorry! I was really caught up in the research, but am now working on the 1920s, so not planning to do any more WW1 reading at the moment. But that era is very dear to my heart, and always will be. ..."

I agree with you that this period of history is a very important one and hopefully increasing numbers of younger people will become interested in reading about it and visiting the sites. When I visited Vimy Ridge in 1990 I recall many young Canadian students acting as volunteer guides, does that still occur? Anyhow thanks for your reading suggestions and I hope to chat with you more later.

Yes, Canadian students are still at Vimy as guides. What a great education for them!
Have you seen the painting called "The Ghosts of Vimy Ridge" by Australian artist Captain William Longstaff, who was in the war? I have a large poster of it on my office wall. You can see it at the Veteran's Affairs website.

Gabriele wrote: "Yes, Canadian students are still at Vimy as guides. What a great education for them!
Have you seen the painting called "The Ghosts of Vimy Ridge" by Australian artist Captain William Longstaff, who..."

I have never seen this picture before but its very much like "The Ghosts of Menin Gate" by the same painter, both are very evocative images.

http://www.tnovosel.org/greatwargraph...

I have seen the orginal of "Menin Gate" at the Australian War Memorial, its set in a dark alcove and its quite spooky.

I agree that the paintings are evocative and spooky! Thanks for posting the Menin Gate one.

I have found two books that I am yet to read buried in my library that I thought may interest some of the readers in this thread:

by Jeff Hatwell
Publisher blurb:
"Mentioned by C.E.W. Bean in his classic book, The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-18, Percy Black and Harry Murray were extraordinary men who made enormous contributions to the Anzac tradition.

Both in their mid thirties and working in the Australian bush when war was declared in 1914 they were quick to enlist and were placed in the same machine gun section of the newly formed 16th battalion.

Landing at Anzac Cove on the 25th April 1915 their courage and natural ability took both men to high rank and earned them several awards for gallantry. After having served at both Gallipoli and on the Western Front Lieutenant-Colonel Murray, VC, CMG, DSO & Bar, DCM, Croix de Guerre was the most decorated infantry soldier in the British Empire. Major Percy Black was also awarded the DSO, DCM, and Croix de Guerre and was regarded by many of his contemporaries as the bravest man in the AIF - a remarkable achievement for a thirty-eight year old gold fossicker with no previous military experience."

And the second book which looks at the Western Front from the experiences of a stretcher bearer:

by Roy Ramsay

Publishers blurb:
"Roy Ramsay worked with the Field Ambulance in Egypt, on hospital ships evacuating the wound and sick from Gallipoli in WWI. He served on the Western Front, enduring the shocking physical conditions of trench warfare, and the struggle to retrieve the injured and wounded and get them back for medical attention. These war memoirs cover the whole course of the war until the Armistice."

Thank you Aussie Rick

Bentley wrote: "Thank you Aussie Rick"

My pleasure Bentley. I am currently reading a WW1 memoir of an Australian soldier on the Western Front:

by G.D. Mitchell, Robert Macklin

Although its has a fair bit on the depressing life of a soldier on the Western Front, mud, rain, rats, death & destruction, I thought maybe a few people would like to read the following just to show the humour of the troops stuck in this hell (from page 42):

"A fussy little major from another battalion blew up, all beans and bounce. 'Where is company headquarters, my man?' he asked. The chats [lice:] were nipping again. A five-point-nine landed in a thunderous flame-pierced blast of destruction.
'It was,' I answered, 'just where that shell landed. I couldn't say where it is now'. He gave me a dirty look, opened his mouth to say something, but changed his mind. 'If you go now, sir' - I improved the shining hour, respectfully - 'you will arrive just as the next shell lands'. He gave me another black look, but took the hint and waited'. "

Gabriele wrote: "I agree that the paintings are evocative and spooky! Thanks for posting the Menin Gate one."

My pleasure Gabriele, have you read these books before, I am pretty sure the author is Canadian:

and and by Donald Jack

I read them years ago and thought they were the funniest books ever.

Publishers blurb:
"It is 1916. Bartholomew Bandy, fourth-year medical student, decides that it is time to join the War. The prim young Canadian expects that he will have few problems remaining clean and virtuous. But he is aware that his bland, horse-like face drives people crazy, and that he has a certain tendency to be accident-prone. How will the war affect him, and vice versa? The realities of trench war at the front provide a contrasting backdrop for his adventures, as he blunders into contact with all sorts of people, both fictional and historical (the King, Lester Pearson, and Winston Churchill). Three Cheers For Me was first published in 1962, to wide critical acclaim. This expanded version first appeared in 1973, to launch the series now known as The Bandy Papers."

I looked for the Bandy books when I was doing research, but couldn't find any of the WW1 ones in the library. Donald Jack was a close friend of one of my author friends (now in his 80s) and mentor of sorts. Thanks for reminding me about them, Aussie Rick, as I see I can get vol. 2 from our online Chapters store. I did a lot of research into aviation, as several of my characters are pilots, so this should be great fun! Woohoo, Christmas read!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Thank you Aussie Rick"

My pleasure Bentley. I am currently reading a WW1 memoir of an Australian soldier on the Western Front:

[bookcover:Backs to the Wall A larrikin on the ..."

Great quote! LOL!

Gabriele wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Thank you Aussie Rick"

My pleasure Bentley. I am currently reading a WW1 memoir of an Australian soldier on the Western Front:

[bookcover:Backs to the Wall ..."

Here's another section from the same book - page 178:

"A reinforcement officer, first time in the line, said to me, 'Mitch, there is a machine gun about four hundred yards out. You’ve got a decoration. How about you going out and capturing it?'

I thought hard for a bit, then replied, 'How about you going out and capturing it? Then you'll have a decoration too'. But neither of us went."

Wonderful, Aussie Rick! Sounds like a great book.

Gabriele wrote: "Wonderful, Aussie Rick! Sounds like a great book."

It’s a pretty good read and strangely enough before reading this book I had not previously heard about George Deane Mitchell. I looked him up on the Internet and this is what I found:

"He served at Gallipoli from 25 April 1915 until he was evacuated with enteric fever on 6 August. Rejoining his battalion on 9 September 1916 in Belgium, he was transferred to the 48th Battalion on 31 October and promoted lance corporal on 17 March 1917.
On 11 April, after six hours of bitter trench fighting in the first battle of Bullecourt, France, Mitch covered his comrades' retreat, then shouldered his Lewis gun and strolled through heavy enemy fire to his lines. He won the Distinguished Conduct Medal and was promoted second lieutenant. His walk entered A.I.F. legend, and Charles Bean's official history used it to characterize Mitchell's brigade in the battle. On 28 March 1918 Mitchell's platoon held an exposed hillside at Dernancourt. On his right the enemy broke through. He ran to the break, waving a pistol, and captured about thirty soldiers. He was awarded the Military Cross. In May 1919 he returned to Australia an A.I.F. rarity, having survived four years of front-line service unwounded.
Mitchell wrote the A.I.F.'s most evocative diary, with a knack of seeing significance in events. 'We had come from the New World for the conquest of the Old', he observed at the Anzac landing. 'They all bore the hall mark of the Cog', he remarked of Londoners in 1916. 'I feel that I have lost touch with any life but this one of war', he wrote in 1917, it 'is hard to recall Australia, and apart from my people nothing stands out vividly. I feel an outsider. We are lost in the magnitude of our task'."

Gabriele wrote: "Wonderful, Aussie Rick! Sounds like a great book."

I'll leave you with one last funny bit from the book;

"Our crowd was detailed for salvaging. This was one form of work that the men heartily enjoyed. My exhortation ere they went off, ran something like this: 'Don't lift anything that has an owner. Don't salvage any live ammunition from guns. Don't lift any buried cables that have men on the ends'.
They promised not to do so, but word drifted back to where I was hopefully writing another Air Force application, that some of them were sitting behind a battery asking the gunners to fire, so that they could salvage the cases."

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Gabriele wrote: "Wonderful, Aussie Rick! Sounds like a great book."

I'll leave you with one last funny bit from the book;

"Our crowd was detailed for salvaging. This was one form of work that..."

LOL! So did he get into the Air Force?

Gabriele wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Gabriele wrote: "Wonderful, Aussie Rick! Sounds like a great book."

I'll leave you with one last funny bit from the book;

"Our crowd was detailed for salvaging. This was one..."

Hi Gabriele,

His unit was pulled out of the line with the rest of the AIF after the 1918 August offensive and was offered the RAF but figured the war was being close to being won and wanted to stay with his battalion till the end so he never managed to get into the Air Force.

For fans of the great Ralph Vaughan Williams. The wonderful 3d "Pastoral" Symphony is perhaps the best testament of the war that I know. This is a superb documentary of Vaughan Williams in WWI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpYiLc...