Retro Reads discussion

This is the thread for open spoilers & final conclusions!

We are currently packing up our house to move. I’m struggling to find my copy of Swallows and Amazons but hoping it will turn up soon. Or else I’ll get it from the library.

I wondered if the name "Titty" has the same connotations as it does over here.

An unfortunate name for a child - could almost be termed as chid abuse IMO

In the movie they changed her name. But I think you need to accept it as a name common to the period and not having any of the current connotations that are associated with it now.

I'm still trying to find the b/w TV series I saw as a child. It would have been shot in the 60s I would think.

& I loved this! Most enjoyable read of the year so far.

These children were so adventurous. While we never did anything as risky as what these kids did, I can remember having quite elaborate games with diaries, plans & maps.

I think what happened to 'my' TV series is that it went round different countries in the world & was then destroyed or the tapes were reused for other shows. This happened to old TV shows in NZ too.

The concern around the name of Titty. This is a common abbreviation for females named Letitia in the past, and who often became Letty as adults. Therefore a perfectly acceptable name of the times.
However, in the case of Titty in this book, it is the nickname chosen from the real life girl, Mavis, who disliked her name and chose Titty from her favourite story Titty Mouse and Tatty Mouse. Around 1970s there was a remake of the film and the name was to be changed to Tatty, as discussed in this article from The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016...
On an other occasion a change to Kitty also caused debate.

This is not an isolated instance of changes being made in literature because a name, situation, etc. is now classed as sensitive. My personal opinion is these changes should not be made, and readers should be educated enough to be able to accept literature from the times it was written.
Before I leave my soapbox, I will leave you with this thought. Just imagine in the future the huge changes that could possibly be made in today's modern literature with all the unabandoned use of questionable language that has become the accepted normal today. Many would almost be re-written!

Lesley wrote: "The concern around the name of Titty. This is a common abbreviation for females named Letitia in the past, and who often became Letty as adults. Therefore a perfectly acceptable name of the times. ..."

I don't find changing names for films, TV, etc so bad (although frankly I think Tatty is nearly as bad as Titty!) They often change so much that the finished product is unrecognisable anyway.

But I really hate the sanitising of books for modern tastes.

I remember the discussion in the Georgette Heyer fans group got quite heated about it.

This was the article at the time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/bo...

I don't have access to this article any more.

I remembered Leslie Charteris as one where they were making quite big changes to some of his books' text. But according to AI changes to his books happened from the get go - & he made some of the changes himself!

I have just finished reading this for probably the fifth or so time. I read it as a child and loved it, but I think I love it even more now. I binged on the whole series about five years ago so it was good to revisit it.
A lot of the charm of this book lies in its location, the Lakes District of England, and the depiction of the children and their adventures in their boat Swallow. It is all very innocent, even when they are accused of causing damage to a houseboat. The descriptions of the charcoal burners are wonderful, it’s a way of life long gone but incredibly interesting to read about.
The children are all good characters with Titty being the stand out for me, she seems to have more of a romantic streak and active imagination than the others. Roger is an amusing little boy, very well described.
All in all a most enjoyable read.

I just got used to the name Titty and didn't worry about it - She probably was the most interesting of the siblings. I did enjoy this book but it wasn't exactly what I was expecting, and not even sure in what way.
For one thing, the book really stayed "in character" where the POV was that they actually were in the navy, or pirates, and surrounded by natives (one of whom was Mom) which was both good and a bit irritating since SO much of it was specific to sailboats which I know nothing about.
But on the whole I enjoyed the utter innocence of it all and my heart just grieves for all those children in the world growing up with nothing like this level of freedom in their lives and especially outside! They were on their own (Mom supervised, of course) and camping and free to invent things and trial solutions and solve problems and have fun while doing it!
I might try another in the series, not sure.

Jackie wrote: "For one thing, the book really stayed "in character" where the POV was that they actually were in the navy, or pirates, and surrounded by natives (one of whom was Mom) which was both good and a bit irritating since SO much of it was specific to sailboats which I know nothing about."

That is a really good way of putting it. It is part of the charm of the book how completely the children live in & believe their imaginary world.

A lot of this has been lost now. My kids were lucky enough to have a very creative older cousin who would invent games for them - like they would be secret agents & she would make them ID cards or a shopping game where she would save packaging & make them credit cards (to be honest - I wasn't so keen on that one! 😅)

Thinking about my kids - neither of them were that interested in TV when they were young. Initially neither were interested in the computer. They were both sporty & arty but the nearest to a make believe world I remember was them building a tree house & also converting our old chicken run into a club house. But once these were completed that was the end of the game.

Jackie wrote: "I just got used to the name Titty and didn't worry about it - She probably was the most interesting of the siblings. I did enjoy this book but it wasn't exactly what I was expecting, and not even s..."

You are exactly right. The essence of the story is the imagination of the children, and that the adults joined in on the make-believe. That was my childhood and all the parents used to go along with our ideas even though at times I'm sure they tempered them with their common sense.
I do remember one time one of the 'plots' went a little awry. The boys in the neighbourhood decided to divide into two groups with one making their fort in the scrub by the creek, and the other going up the pine clad hill to make their fort. The pine clad hill tribe lit a fire to send smoke signals to the other tribe using a blanket from my brother's bed. The idea was good until the flapping of the blanket fanned the fire, which ignited pine needles all around. The end result was the lads had to bike to the fire station and spend the rest of the day cleaning the fire engine that had attended their fire with the firemen giving them a long lecture. That was followed by their parents imposing various punishments on the lads, and my brother having to save a contribution for a new blanket from his paper round. Future games did not involve 'fire sticks' in forest situations.

Reading the book bought all these memories back to me and caused me to smile. If only the recent generations of children could experience this form of play and growing up. Not just the outside play, but where the parents join in as well. What a different world it might be.

I could be tempted to read on in the series, although my library doesn't have any more of the books. :( And as for watching the movie, I might leave that for the time being as the images built in my mind might disagree.

Hahaha, you have me beat, Leslie.

We were latchkey kids & my sisters once set fire to a lampshade. They were in a wardrobe pretending to be Florence Nightingale! 😅 Of course, it was All My Fault since I should have been watching them better!

I would love to read the second book, then see how we go from there.

I think most of the books are on Faded Page. The next one is Swallowdale & it does sound good.

Would a November read suit? In September I'm leading a read in another group.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hahaha, you have me beat, Leslie.

We were latchkey kids & my sisters once set fire to a lampshade. They were in a wardrobe pretending to be Florence Nightingale! 😅 Of course, it was All My Fault s..."

Yes, I'd like to read the second because this book ended with see you next year! Anytime would be good for me, so I'll just fit in with whatever the group decides.

I could relate many adventures we had as children, and there were many with the creek, river, places to build forts, and the freedom we had. I look at the kids today going off to their organized sports then to their organized playgrounds with structured equipment and all the rules on using said equipment. No room for imagination or risk taking. So sad.

& since I started mentioning this in the other thread...

It's been a long time since I read them, but I think books like these influenced the harry Potter books, as Harry & his friends had adult advice but often acted independently & were very resourceful.

I'm going to add Swallowdale as a read on the 5th of November. Be very careful reading any reviews of this book on Gr! I read one that had quite a big spoiler.

I liked Nancy and Peggy probably more than the others - they seemed lonelier.

Cphe wrote: "I liked Nancy and Peggy probably more than the others - they seemed lonelier."

I got the feeling that Nancy and Peggy hadn't had many adventures as large and grand as the Walker children until they met up. There wasn't a character in the book that I didn't like, even the 'pirate'.

I'm looking forward to November, but I'll be sure not to read anything about Swallodale until after! :)

I think you are possibly right that these books might have given Rowling the inspiration for Harry Potter and his friends. Although having said that the Enid Blyton Famous Five certainly had parent enabling their adventures in as much as they provided picnic baskets and some equipment from memory. Not sure whether the Secret Seven did or were they more independent.