Reading the 20th Century discussion

PODCAST: What Happened to Counter Culture?



This Radio 4 series is pure audio catnip, marrying a truly fascinating topic – how did the counter culture emerge and then slowly evaporate – with the perfect host for it in alternative comedian titan and true counter culture lifer Stewart Lee. He should do more documentary work: his Sky Arts film King Rocker, about cult Birmingham post-punk artist Robert Lloyd, was also excellent.

He’s assisted here by a top supporting cast of talking heads, including Brian Eno, novelist Iain Sinclair and one of Lee’s other faves, Shirley Collins.

Episode one, about the postwar emergence of the counter-culture, is out now with new episodes coming Thursdays.


www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002gqy7/epi...



Available via BBC Sounds search under Artworks

And talking of the Counter Culture....


The Bureau of Lost Culture podcast


...is superb

There's loads of episodes to enjoy and most are fascinating

Thanks, Nigeyb. I love a podcast so will check it out.

Thanks Nigelb . I found it interesting and liked Stuart Lee's approach . He clearly adores Shirley Collins and the programme reminded me of Lucia Berlin , a beat contemporary and on the margins of this world , which is always a good thing .

I'm watching a series of documentaries made in the naughties by Vanessa Engels ( no relation ) entitled Lefties which explored the world of the radical left in the seventies and eighties ( squats , separatist feminism and the ill fated News on Sunday ) . They are well made and non sensationalist while gently revealing some of the paradoxes , the idealism and unquestioning dogma and trenchant self belief that the orthodoxy embedded . I couldn't help but think of The History Man , which has to be one of my favourite novels ...

Thanks Susan, and thanks Hester


Lefties sounds right up my street

Alas not currently on iPlayer...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008...

More info on Vanessa's website and some short clips...
https://www.vanessaengle.com/lefties

There are longer clips on YouTube (possibly the whole thing in shorter sections)...
https://www.youtube.com/results?searc...


And a resounding YES YES YES to The History Man. Like you it's one of my all time favourite novels

Oh, The History Man was my book of the year. Thank you for introducing me to that one. Will we ever try another book by the author or was that the best?

I think it's definitely the best book by by Malcolm Bradbury...


https://www.theguardian.com/books/200...

...though I daresay some of his other books are worth a read

@Nigelb . I watched them all on YouTube .

Thanks Hester


Yes, since posted last I have found them all on YouTube so will follow your lead when I have a chance. Looking forward to watching it

I'm also finding the current Jesus Army podcasts on BBC Sounds very interesting . Another take on the desire to find and found a utopian society , which seemed to be possible to idealists back in the day . There are quite a few parallels . Unlike the Lefties series , however , there is more emphasis on the abusive , controlling nature of this cult along with the appalling lack of safeguarding . Both feature moments of complete bodily possession ( primal therapy Vs Pentecostal speaking in tongues and ecstatic collapse ) and both emphasise the need to break away from the nuclear family model towards a collective model .

Thanks Hester


Yes, I'd noticed that series and thought I must watch it but have done nothing about it yet so your post will prompt me to prioritise it

It's interesting how these alternative approaches so often seem to end with power becoming ocncentrated, controlling and coercive

I've watched the documentary,v which is a two parter , but am preferring the podcast . The first episode of the podcast is mainly about a Luton Town fan looking for more meaning in his life (which would have made me chuckle if his discipleship wasn't such a serious exploitation of his naive trust in the cult ) . Hi articulates his experience calmly and clearly likening his first experience of a religious service like the best ever LSD trip .

Ah right thanks Hester


I didn't know about the Podcast. Looks good and it's much easier for me to listen to pods than watch TV...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c...

I'm on to episode three of the podcast and it's getting very dark


A great listen

It always amazes me how ready some people are to hand over agency to another person

I have a few recollections of seeing Jesus Army buses out and about as a kid and teenager

Thanks Hester - I'll definitely have to watch the documentary too with suitably lowered expectations given your comments above

Glad you are finding it interesting . Have to say I remember the Jesus Army too .

I guess the secret in getting someone to hand over their agency to you is beguiling them with the promise of some sort of utopia ( religious , monetary or political ). This is attainable if you strictly obey The Rules which are delivered by the guru / prophet / philosopher or leader who has already attained a higher status on the path .

Vanessa Engels did another documentary about the huge popularity of How to get Rich that swept across the world before 2008 on the back of a huge bestseller called Rich Man Poor Man . Its author combined with Donald Trump at one stage and it's interesting to see how the very individualistic Everyone Can be a Millionaire idea took off and has persisted .

Engels interviewed people at the top and bottom of this scheme and showed how most at the bottom had simply got into debt , mainly by buying expensive courses in sometimes luxurious places . But none had lost their belief . The courses , often gatherings of thousands , had elements of ritual : chanting mantras of success in combination with physical movements and the need for daily repetition was stressed , much like a prayer practice .

You could argue this latter documentary is a counter "counter culture" as this ideology s actively embracing individual success at any cost, without any sense of a collective good . It mainly suggested property purchases and aiming to become a rentier . But the exploitative mechanisms operated by those at the top are similar to the more obvious religious cults and there are victims here too .

It's also got common ground with Multi Level Marketing which emerged from , among other places , Salt Lake City . it would seem that the mission work , that young people in the Mormon community are obligated to take, sets them up as bullet proof sales people, as they are immune to rejection .

Thanks Hester - very interesting post


The second episode of The Counter Culture podcast is now up on BBC Sounds

Also I have heard great things about….

The People vs McDonalds with Mark Steel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00...

I’ve listened to the first episode which sets it all up very nicely.

This is what my pal told me…..

Mark Steel introduces an extraordinary battle between two activists - a gardener and a former postman - and one of the world's biggest fast food companies. A battle over a leaflet which led to the longest trial in English history. It would bring issues like rainforest destruction and advertising to children into the mainstream. It would also be the moment our current Prime Minister first comes to prominence. Ultimately, it's a story which would have connections with a dark and shameful secret at the heart of the British state - something Mark discovers he himself had been the victim of. Honestly, there are conspiracy theories less bonkers than this. Welcome to the People vs McDonald's.

Ah, this is the case that Keir Starmer worked on a pro bona basis for years, isn't it, back when he was a young and radical human rights lawyer. Sad how things have changed.