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Victorians! discussion
Martin Chuzzlewit 2025
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Martin Chuzzlewit: Week 2: Chapters 6-12
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There’s so much deft humor in the way Dickens reveals Martin’s selfishness and obstinacy… Two traits which he disapproves in his family, while clearly failing to recognize in himself!
And so much pathos in the moment when Martin reveals that Tom’s crush is his sweetheart.
”'That was she.'
'I knew what you were going to say,' cried Tom, looking fixedly at him…”
I can only hope that Martin will mature into some genuine introspection before he turns into some we cannot help but despise.
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The inside of a carriage is an interesting setting for almost an entire chapter, but Mr. Dickens makes the most of it, deriving both humor and exposition of character. I’m particularly interested in Jonas Chuzzlewit and his purported interest in BOTH sisters. Perhaps he is hedging his bets should he decide there’s advantage in marrying a cousin.
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There’s so much deft humor in the way Dickens reveals Martin’s selfishness and obstinacy… Two traits which he disapproves in his family, while clearly failing to recognize in himself!"
Ah, I found that humourous as well.
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Martin the Younger is an interesting choice for a Dickens hero in that he is not all good and faultless. Compare him to John Westlock, who seems to be an amazing friend and generally a good and honest person. I guess this book is Martin's coming-of-age story. He is not a bad guy, of course, just needs to learn some lessons in kindness and humbleness.Now for the bad guys, I am already sick and tired of Tiggs & Slyme. By the way, how do you all pronounce Slyme when reading? I found "slime" too distracting and opted for "slim". Slyme is not so much a 'speaking name' as a screaming one!
Mr Pecksniff: abominable how he treated and dismissed Martin. This really showed his character like nothing else did so far. It also seems that Martin Chuzzlewit senior has joined the "bad guys" by associating with Pecksniff. Or is he playing some game? Anthony and Jonas C. certainly are and I am curious to find it out. Everybody is watching everybody else in this horrible family!
On the bright side, both the Pecksniffs' trip in the carriage to London as well as the dinner at Todgers made me laugh. This was so amusingly written and, in particular the detailed description of traveling by coach at that time, highly interesting.
Looking forward to Martin's American adventure.
Chapter 6.Tom thinks of Martin ”marching is walking down the lane as if it belonged to him” - you never know it may be belong to him one day.
Martin is treating Tom as a servant, but people of Martin‘s class behaved like that in Victorian times. I’m enjoying Dickens’ long winded narrative-it relaxes me.
Martin asked Tom to read to him to get him to sleep. And then asked for more coals for the fire!
Chapter 7
Poor Tom, he’s so gullible to lend money to that fiend! Dickens certainly produces some hateful antagonists.
Chapter 8
Todgers - I wouldn’t want to stay in that guest house. I’m still laughing about the name of that establishment, in the UK Todger is a slang name for someone’s manhood!
Chapter 9
Dickens describes Pinch’s Sister as “a premature little woman of 13 years old already arrived at such a pitch of whalebone and education that she has got nothing girlish about her“. What imaginative writing that is! The Miss Pecksmiths find out to their horror that Tom sister is more refined than they are.
Pecksmith is trying to chat up the London landlady and finishes up getting drunk and having to be put to bed (several times)- I liked that.
Chapter 10.
I wondered about the significance of the “young man at 18 shillings a week“. Why is this young man never been given a name? I suspect he may turn up later in the novel perhaps as someone that we’ve already met.
Chapter 11
I thought this a very long winded chapter - I’m not sure why Jonas seems to be pursuing the daughters. I believe this novel was originally serialised so I’m treating it as a soap opera with the characters leaving and rejoining the story in various chapters.
Chapter 12
Pecksmith got what he deserved. I like the way that John Westlock paid back to Tom the loan owed by Mr. Tigg. I assumed that that was out of his own pocket.
I can’t wait for next weeks read, the book is growing on me too.
This section contained some absolute gems of comedy whilst also foreshadowing possible even darker days to come for the more sympathetic characters.The Pecksniffs’ stay at Todgers was hilarious, from the house’s location within a maze of insalubrious, decaying thoroughfares to it’s impressively generous landlady and her ‘gentlemen’ lodgers.
’ Presiding over an establishment like this, makes sad havoc with the features, my dear Miss Pecksniffs,’ said Mrs Todgers. ‘The gravy alone, is enough to add twenty years to one’s age, I do assure you.’
‘Lor’!’ cried the two Miss Pecksniffs.
‘The anxiety of that one item, my dears,’ said Mrs Todgers, ‘keeps the mind continually upon the stretch.’
I was surprised at Peckniff’s liberality in the way he allowed the ‘gentlemen to ‘crawl’ all over his daughters. It felt a little creepy, even if they were taken to the theatre etc. However Pecksniff himself wasn’t averse in putting his arm around Mrs. Todger when he got the chance.
All in all, Dickens’ description of a seedy boarding house in a seedy part of London was spot on.
Like John Westlock, I also have reservations about the growing ‘friendship’ between Young Martin and Tom Pinch.
’ Young Westlock stopped upon a rising ground, when he had gone a little distance, and looked back. They were walking at a brisk pace, and Tom appeared to be talking earnestly. Martin had taken off his greatcoat, the wind being now behind them, and carried it upon his arm. As he looked, he saw Tom relieve him of it, after a faint resistance, and, throwing it upon his own, encumber himself with the weight of both. This trivial incident impressed the old pupil mightily, for he stood there, gazing after them, until they were hidden from his view; when he shook his head, as if he were troubled by some uneasy reflection, and thoughtfully retraced his steps to Salisbury.’
Could there be echoes of a similar friendship in another Dickens novel? I am thinking of David Copperfield and Steerforth. Not quite the same relationship but there is definitely a danger that Martin could become a corrupting influence.
Even though we can laugh at the Pecksniffs and their acquaintances, I hope we get read to more about characters like Tom’s sister and John Westlock, because there needs to be a better balance of good and nasty characters.
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I think the old Martin Chuzzlewit is playing a game. He seems to want young Martin to mend his selfish and obstinate ways and is deliberately subjects him hardships. Whether his methods will work is yet to see. Like you, I also enjoyed the Todgers's episode. That was hilarious.
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Pecksniff's conduct as a father disturbed me as well, Trev. Taking his daughters to a place like Todgers's itself was improper for a gentleman of his standing. But he is not a gentleman, not in the proper sense. He is unscrupulous, and is driven only by money considerations. I already detest him.
Piyangie wrote: "Trev wrote: "I was surprised at Peckniff’s liberality in the way he allowed the ‘gentlemen to ‘crawl’ all over his daughters. It felt a little creepy, even if they were taken to the theatre etc. Ho..."Ditto - I was actually more appalled by that scene and it added to my loathing of Pecksniff. Further contributes to the peeling back the layers of the characters.
I am getting more of a feeling, as Tom's character unfolds, that he knows better than everyone else who and what each person is. He makes a choice to see beyond their evil and selfish natures, to seek out the good and elevate it and amplify it. But, he takes this to an extreme that borders on delusion. I was heartened by John Westlock's exchange with Martin in the Inn about Tom, and then John's act of returning the money to Tom that Tigg and borrowed. Very astute of John and he is a true friend of Tom's. Not so of Martin!I had to look up the meaning of "floor-clothed" (forgot to mark the page for reference). I thought is referred to carpeting, but a Google search actually indicates it was what we would call linoleum.
In Chapter 8 - again appalled by Pecksniff (his observation) on page 89 - "...it is always satisfactory to feel, in keen weather, that many other people are not as warm as you are....quite natural....extended itself into many social ramifications...'if every one were warm and well-fed, we should lose the satisfaction of admiring the fortitude with which certain conditions of men bear cold and hunger. And if we were no better off than anybody else, what would become of our sense of gratitude...holiest feelings of our common nature.'" Wow - I had a few expletives floating in my head at that one! How pompous!
A great quote struck me on page 148 in Chapter 12: "The loveliest things in life are but shadows; and they com and go, and change and fade away..." Quite true!
Trev, I appreciated your comment comparing the friendship between Tom Pinch and young Martin with that of David Copperfield and Steerforth. I hope Martin will not be so toxic a companion, but we shall see. Certainly, as others have noted, young Martin bears the faults of his family in some small measure: egotism, stubbornness, hypocrisy, and snobbery. The sections in Mrs. Todge's boarding house were great comedy, especially the scene of Mr. Pecksniff's drunkenness. I can only hope he had a massive hangover the next day. The Pecksniffs grow ever more repulsive, with the daughters showing their greed and snobbery at every opportunity. Cousin Anthony and Jonas are clearly cut from the same cloth as the rest of the Chuzzlewit family. Pecksniff's horrible behavior to young Martin was inexcusable in anyone who claims to have the smallest amount of goodness.
There were a couple of poignant passages in this section. My heart breaks for Tom Pinch when he learns that Martin's love is the woman from the church. I also felt great sorrow at the portrayal of Old Chuffey, such a wreck of a man. I hated the way Jonas made fun of him, but I was also pleasantly surprised that Anthony and Jonas continued to keep him in their home.
In Chapter 7, we meet some of the characters we met in previous section. Mr. Chevy Slyme and Mr. Tigg impose upon Mr. Pinch and young Martin for security; they being held by the Blue Dragon Inn. Mr. Tigg plays a further trick on Mr. Pinch by obtaining some money. Meanwhile, Mark Tapley who works at the Blue Dragon leaves employment.
In chapter 8, Pecksniff family goes to London. On their way they meet Anthony Chuzzlewit and his son, Jonas. Jonas strikes a flirtatious friendship with Miss Pecksniffs. In London, Pecksniff family finds aboard in a commercial boarding house called Todgers's.
In chapter 9, the Pecksniffs alongwith Mrs. Todgers go to see Miss Pinch who's employed as a governess. They meet her and deliver her the letter from his brother. Mr. Pecksniff tries unsuccessfully to make acquaintance with the family who employed Miss Pinch. We learn more about the characters of the three Pecksniffs. (I'm truly beginning to dislike them.)
In chapter 10, we learn Pecksniffs errand in London. They've come at the request from old Martin Chuzzlewit. He comes to meet Mr. Pecksniff at Todgers's and requests the latter to send young Martin away. Old Chuzzlewit hints that young Martin is out of favour with him which considerably alarms Mr. Pecksniff. (True colours of Pecksniff shows here.)
In chapter 11, Jonas Chuzzlewit comes to meet the Pecksniff sisters with the express consent of Mr. Pecksniff. Jonas takes the sisters to their aboard for entertainment. It looks Jonas is courting both sisters (favouring Charity at present) in order to figure whom he likes best.
In Chapter 12, young Martin Chuzzlewit and Mr. Pinch meets Mr. John Westlock. Mr. Westlock has come into his inheritance and is now quite the gentleman. Young Martin is disconcerted after seeing John Westlock. Mr. Pecksniff returns and immediately puts his plan to dismiss young Martin into action. He succeeds and the young man leaves Pecksniff household in anger.
Quite a lot happens in this section. How do you like the story's progress?