Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion

Lord of the Flies isn't on the list?? Insane.

Kirsten wrote: "Lord of the Flies isn't on the list?? Insane."

Yes, it’s there. 😊

Bryan wrote: "Tim wrote: "Absent from the '06 list is Issac Bashevis Singer who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature."

I'm not sure which date he belongs to, but Singer is listed for The Magician of..."</i>

Right, Singer had no books in the original ('06) list but his [book:The Magician of Lublin and The Manor were added to the '08 edition and remain in the latest one. So the list editors corrected their omission of him.

That is good to know. Thank you for the info.

Kathleen wrote: "The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter."

Yes! I just finished this and I'm amazed it isn't on the list. The worst omission I've seen so far.

Bryan wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter."

Yes! I just finished this and I'm amazed it isn't on the list. The worst omission I've seen so far."

I agree it is deserving.

Bryan wrote: "Tim wrote: "Absent from the '06 list is Issac Bashevis Singer who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature."

I'm not sure which date he belongs to, but Singer is listed for The Magician of Lublin

Singer has 2 books, both added in '08: The Magician of Lublin and The Manor.

The best non-list book I've read recently is Blindness by Jose Saramago. He has 5 other books in the list however! I haven't read any of them (but would like to) so I can't say if Blindness is better, but it is more widely read (and is a movie now too).

George wrote: "The best non-list book I've read recently is Blindness by Jose Saramago. He has 5 other books in the list however! I haven't read any of them (but would like to) so I can't say if Blind..."

I've read a few other of Saramago's works, and Blindness is by far the best. The Cave,Death with Interruptions, and Cain were, I thought, vastly inferior. I bought a lot of his books back before I'd read enough to go sour on him, so I still have The Year of the Death of Ricardo Reis, Seeing, All the Names, and The Double left on my shelves, but I'm not in a big hurry to get to them anymore.

That’s good to know...I kept hoping to run into another Saramago that was at least as good as Blindness>

Luís wrote: "Bryan wrote: "That’s good to know...I kept hoping to run into another Saramago that was at least as good as Blindness>"

I recommend to you: Baltasar and Blimunda by [Saramago]."

I already have "Baltasar..." in my to-read list but pretty far down; you've inspired me to move it up a bit. I have "The Year of..." as an alternate, so nice to know you endorse those.

George wrote: "The best non-list book I've read recently is Blindness by Jose Saramago."

I picked this up one day thinking it was a list book! Looking at the list, I must have been confused with Blindness by Henry Green.

I see you've also read a few of António Lobo Antunes' books. The English titles I've read of his are Knowledge of Hell and The Natural Order of Things, and I've been wanting to read The Land at the End of the World for a while now. I find him very challenging in English, but I like him better than Saramago. I also have The Relic by Eça de Queirós on my shelves, but I haven't found the time to read it yet, though I'm eager to get to it.

I always wonder why Huck Finn is on the list but not Tom Sawyer.

Brendan wrote: "I always wonder why Huck Finn is on the list but not Tom Sawyer."

I know. Though Huck does address more serious themes than Tom does. Also, I think Huck is considered more adult than Tom. I remember that Huck was assigned reading in high school, but Tom wasn't.

My school had us read both. I loved them!

Luís wrote: "Bryan wrote: "I see you've also read a few of António Lobo Antunes' books. The English titles I've read of his are Knowledge of Hell and The Natural Order of Things, and..."

Luis, do you read in Portuguese and/or Spanish primarily? I wish my Spanish were good enough to read novels.

Brendan wrote: "I always wonder why Huck Finn is on the list but not Tom Sawyer."

I wonder if Twain hadn't written Huckleberry Finn if the list editors would have put Tom Sawyer on the list? I suspect so, but that they didn't want to have both. I have read both and recommend them.

This thread is my favorite in this group because sometimes I think I'm crazy when I look at the list. I remember being so shocked that Fahrenheit 451 wasn't included that I thought I had purchased some sort of knock-off list rather than the real thing.

Also, other authors are represented more than once, so why not both Huck and Tom?

I wonder about some of the newer books on the list and whether they will still be there assuming the list continues well into the future. Just a thought I'd like to hear smarter people than me discuss.

Ella wrote: "This thread is my favorite in this group because sometimes I think I'm crazy when I look at the list. I remember being so shocked that Fahrenheit 451 wasn't included that I thought I ha..."

Me too! I'm reading Fahrenheit 451 at the moment and before I started on it I was sure it would be on there!

Also recently read Flowers for Algernon which I loved and think should be included

I think one problem is the genre prejudice. Many critics pooh-pooh crime fiction, science fiction, romance as not serious literature. You get the same problem with TV and movie critics. It is getting better, but it probably hit this list to some extent.

Absolutely missing on the list is Kaputt by Curzio Malaparte and Chapel Road by Louis Paul Boon.

I totally agree with you Hannah about Flowers for Algernon: it was such a heartbreaking book! I loved it and recommended it to everyone, and I'm surprised it's not on there either.

Kirsten wrote: "I think one problem is the genre prejudice. Many critics pooh-pooh crime fiction, science fiction, romance as not serious literature. You get the same problem with TV and movie critics. It is getti..."

Not the case, though.

There's lots of Sci-Fi on the list. There's at least a dozen highly regarded sci-fi authors on there, and probably a couple dozen sci-fi novels. If you group sci-fi and fantasy together, they probably make up at least 10% of the list (though I'm too lazy to go back & actually count.)

Given that, I highly doubt it was mere genre prejudice that kept those two sci fi books off the list.

My two cents on Fahrenheit 451 is that they probably thought that Iron Heel, Notes from the Underground, We, Brave New World, and Nineteen Eighty Four were enough books to show the development of the dystopian genre.

Is 10% a lot? What exactly is the methodology for putting things on the list? Do they only get to put so much genre fiction on the list? Or is it done by time periods?

Kirsten wrote: "Is 10% a lot? What exactly is the methodology for putting things on the list? Do they only get to put so much genre fiction on the list? Or is it done by time periods?"

For one genre, I'd say 10% is at least enough to say it's not anti-genre mindsets that keep books off the list.

A lot of the list (though not all) is dedicated towards tracing the history of particular genres/sub-genres.

So, Iron Heel and We are considered some of the earliest examples for Dystopian lit. We was influenced by Notes from Underground. Then you have Brave New World and 1984 which were both hugely influential in the genre.

But who did Bradbury influence? I mean, everyone loves and reveres Fahrenheit 451, but I really can't think of any other authors who were obviously influenced by it in particular. There's some, I'm sure, but I can't think of any off the top of my head, and that says a lot, IMO.

I guess you could say American Gods explores some of the same themes (loss of culture, etc) but I don't really think you could say it's a direct result of Bradbury's work.

Bradbury's work influenced many authors, including Stephen King. Even if Fahrenheit didn't make the list, one of his others ought to be on the list, perhaps Something Wicked This Way Comes.

Some noteworthy 20th century books/authors (not necessarily ones I like):

The Twelve Chairs
Golden Calf
I, Claudius
And Then There Were None
Johnny Got His Gun
Chess Story
Madonna in a Fur Coat
Exodus
Hawaii
Stoner
The Source
The Day of the Jackal
The Princess Bride
The Killer Angels
Shōgun
Roots: The Saga of an American Family
Lonesome Dove

Agree on _I Clavdivs_ and _The Killer Angels_ :)

I think The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe should be included.

RJ wrote: "I think The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe should be included."

Agree -- love the whole series!

Jamie wrote: "I concur with various folks on this thread that Ayn Rand ought to be included. I HATED Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, and Moby Dick, and so did many other people. But till we read a particu..."

I absolutely agree with you on Bless Me, Ultima. It was a great read!

I just finished A Month in the Country by J.L. Carr, which made the Guardian 1000 cut, but not Boxall. I thought it was remarkably well done--I'm adding it to my own list of best books of the 20th C. It's a reflective kind of book--it may be that it suits me well because I'm of that sort of age where reflection happens often--chances are I wouldn't have had the patience for it 20 or 25 years ago. Glad I found it now though. Can't think of a reason why Boxall passed it over.

Mercedes wrote: "There are no books by either Pío Baroja or MIGUEL UNAMUNO, two major Spanish writers. That's an injustice to readers." Which books of them do you think should be on the list and why?

Mercedes wrote: "Baroja's Tree of Knowledge and de Unamuno's Abel Sánchez are two that come to mind, but I'm not an expert of either writer and neither have I read all their works. Both authors form a major part of..." I've encountered works by Unamuno before during my undergrad years (I remember some difficulties reading him) but Baroja is a total stranger to me. Thanks.

Bryan wrote: "I just finished A Month in the Country by J.L. Carr, which made the Guardian 1000 cut, but not Boxall. I thought it was remarkably well done--I'm adding it to my own list of best books..."

I loved it too. It's one of those quiet classics that gets overlooked it seems.

Well... The God Boy by Ian Cross is one that should be on this list. After all, The Catcher in the Rye is, and The God Boy is (a lot) better in my opinion 🙂

Another one that is 'missing' from the list is The Keepers of the House by Shirley Ann Grau. The book won the Pulitzer Prize and is certainly worth reading (and should become a classic, but again, that's just my opinion).

And what about Wake in Fright by Kenneth Cook, for instance? It became a modern classic in Australia.

There are dozens of books I think should be on this list but the creators had to make a choice, after all 🙂

K.D. wrote: "
THE WARS
by Timothy Findley

Let's have more Canadians on that list!"

Personally I think Famous Last Words is better than The Wars, although it might be less accessible. The Wars, by the way, is included.

I'd like to see more modern Chinese novels on the list. I have been reading the 4 classics and really enjoy them. There are only 8 Chinese books on the list -- the 4 classics and then 4 books from the 1900s. There is some great science fiction coming out of China now, particularly Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem and the rest of the Remembrance of Earth's Past Series. I'm not up on any other genres from China.

Os Maias. If they were going for only one Eça book then it should be his magnus opus and not The Crime of Father Amaro, which is a fine book in its own right, but hardly worthy of being the ultimate representative of Queirós.

Incidentally, in the one version I have, his name is misspelled, too.

Funny--I just picked up The Bull from the Sea the other day. I passed on an opportunity to get a decent copy of TKMD years ago, and I've regretted it since. I'm not sure I didn't read it when I was much younger--seems like it was very good, and very entertaining.

Mercedes wrote: "Mary Renault has been excluded, yet other female (and many many more male) writers have multiple books on the list, some of which lack true merit.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I color coded the combined list according to gender and you can see just by glancing it how starkly unrepresented women writers are, especially considering that many male authors got several titles included- even they these are not particularly different from one another- to the detriment of female authors who were entirely excluded from the list altogether.

Mercedes wrote: "I agree! Os Maias is monumental and should be included. "

I wonder if this is a matter of availability of English translations? I know that Os Maias has been translated but I hardly come across it in discussions of English speakers, at all; it is either The Crime or not Queirós at all.

I may have mentioned this before but as far as I know there is not a single one Portuguese speaking African author. There are several English speaking ones but I have found no-one from, say, Mozambique or Angola.

No Mia Couto, no Pepetela, no Agualusa, just to name some obvious authors that ought to have been included.

Mercedes wrote: "Mary Renault has been excluded, yet other female (and many many more male) writers have multiple books on the list, some of which lack true merit.

I'm currently reading The King Must Die, which I'll be recommending to friends. ..."

Excellent to know... I recently acquired both The King Must Die and The Bull From the Sea to read during my mythology theme year, but hadn't gotten around to them... I wasn't sure if Renault might be too romancy. Now with both the recs, I can start.

Glad to see Mary Renault getting more love here: very surprised she's not on the list. I had previously put the books "The Charioteer" and "Fire from Heaven" out there in this thread. Haven't read The King Must Die yet, but looking forward to it.

Mercedes wrote: "Mary Renault has been excluded, yet other female (and many many more male) writers have multiple books on the list, some of which lack true merit.

I'm currently reading [book:The Ki..."

So glad to see how many people enjoy Mary Renault's books! I've been reading her books since the 70s and have enjoyed them all.

I'm reading Chaireas and Kallirhoe by Chariton and the number of footnotes in the book referencing Homer's The Odyssey and The Illiad confirms my opinion that both should be on the list. Classical Greek literature is woefully represented!

I think Homer was not included because poetry does not seem to be contemplated much.

One of the few exceptions I've encountered is Os Lusíadas and I suspect that's because the compiler is not aware it is poetry. I know there's a prose translation floating about and that may have confused them.

When it comes to Greco-Roman literature, the fact that this list is almost deprived of drama entries makes it woefully underrepresented.

Nocturnalux wrote: "I think Homer was not included because poetry does not seem to be contemplated much.

One of the few exceptions I've encountered is Os Lusíadas and I suspect that's because the compiler is not awa..."

So true. But regarding Homer, there are prose translations of the epics.

Homer should without a doubt be contemplated. What was included in terms of Greco/Roman literature feels almost random. I quite enjoyed The Golden Ass but is Apuleius more relevant than Homer? I very much doubt it. Not to mention that as Chaireas and Kallirhoe- and virtually every single literary production of the ancient Greek/Roman world- it refers Homer so frequently that it becomes very obvious that the Homeric poems (or the prose translations) should have been included.

Gilgamesh was not contemplated either.

And I'm sure others have mentioned this before but Elena Ferrante's tetralogy should be included. Troubling Love is featured but her magnus opus is missing.

Nocturnalux wrote: "Homer should without a doubt be contemplated. What was included in terms of Greco/Roman literature feels almost random. I quite enjoyed The Golden Ass but is Apuleius more relevant tha..."

Just started Ovid's Metamorphoses (on the list) and it is a poem, so no excuse for omitting Homer. Much better to get Greek mythology from a Greek than a Roman.

Agree with you on Gilgamesh and would add Beowulf.

I don't even think it's a matter of picking a Greek or a Roman author, but more of choosing Greco-Roman authors that were representative of the literature of their time and/or whose echo has been carried down all the way to the present time.

Roman literature is not exactly well represented either. No Virgil. No Lucretius.

Homer is so foundational that he's being entirely absent is just perplexing, to be honest.

Beowulf should be included as well, yes.