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JoAnn/QuAppelle
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Oct 31, 2009 04:10PM

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4625 Lying with the Enemy, by Tim Binding (read 4 Oct 2009) This is a 1998 novel laid on Guernsey island during the German occupation (1940-1945). It spends most of its time talking about the Germans having sex with the natives, and I found it very boring. There is a murder and the investigation is treated as a sideline. I could not get too interested in the incredible story and was glad to get to the last page. The author was born in Germany but grew up in West Yorkshire, England. How he knows what went on in Guernsey before he was even born I don't know--but reading this book was not a worthwhile use of time. (Sorry, Laurie--who asked me to read it to see if it was worth reading.)
4626 What Happened at Vatican II, by John W. O'Malley (read 6 Oct 2009) This is a 2008 book by a Jesuit who was a student in Rome while Vatican II was going on. But it is based on the accounts of others and tells well the story of the events at the Council, in good chronological order. He shows that the "progressives" had a healthy majority at the Council, but the conservatives were able to prevent changes that the majority of the bishops would have made. I found this absorbing reading and a good refresher as to the events at Vatican II--the most important religious event of the 20th century.
4627 The Ruin of the Roman Empire, by James J. O'Donnell (read 10 Oct 2009) This is a very erudite book, dripping with evidence of the author's great knowledge and learning.(though, sadly, also showing the author's skepticism as to religion). He spends much time on Theoderic, who he says was more properly the last western Roman Emperor--he died in 526, long after the date (476) usually assigned as the end of the western branch of the Roman Empire--and also much time on Justinian, of whom he is very critical, and on St, Gregory the Great--who he says good things about. Some of this was not too interesting but it had its moments, and is a book which I should have devoted more study to if the subject had been of more interest to me.
4628 The Coming of the Third Reich, by Richard J. Evans (read 12 Oct 2009) This is the first book of a trilogy on Nazidom by an English historian. It relates the events of the Nazi rise to power up to the summer of 1933. It tells the sad story very ell and shows that it was not only the Versailles Treaty but the dire economic conditions which enabled Hitler to come to power--and the divided forces opposed to him. Nazis never before assuming power ever got the votes of a majority of German voters, but Nazis became the largest party in Germany because the opposition was divided between right and left. The way Hitler took over when he on Jan 30, 1933, was named Chancellor is an appalling and sad story--there really was no way he could be stopped after he gained power. Nor can one fault too much the fact that Germans did not do the heroic things which would have been required to have stopped him once he was in power. This is an excellent account of a doleful time in German history.
.

4630 The Lost Symbol A Novel, by Dan Brown (read 19 Oct 2009) I previously read a couple of Dan Brown's books but have never read The DeVinci Code because it seemed blasphemous to me nor did I read the one entitled Angels and Demons for a related reason. This is his 2009 book and I decided to read it after reading the New York Times review of it and because it is laid in D.C. , where I spent a few happy years over 50 years ago. Robert Langdon is called to D.C. to give a lecture but when he gets there the hand of the guy who supposedly called him is in the Capitol rotunda. There follows much running around, narrow escapes, etc., as an evil person seeks to learn a great Masonic secret. The first part of the book is exciting and one is eager to keep reading, but after awhile it all palls since it is so far-fetched and incredible and fantasy-like. In the denouement it becomes even crazier as the evil guy seeks to have himself killed! The wrap-up consists of a lot of philosophizing which is kind of pantheistic and seeks to mollify people of belief by saying good things about the Bible. At times as I read I thought the book was awful and should have only one star--but I will rate it better than that for the exciting and non-boring parts. It is interesting that on Amazon there are more one-star reviews (303) than 5-star reviews (232)
4631 Stones for Ibarra, by Harriet Doerr (read 21 Oct 2009) There is a list called "100 Great American Novels You've (Probably) Never Read. I've read 10 of the 100 and this book was on the list. It tells of an odd California couple who go to Mexico to take over an abandoned mine Richard's grandfather had. They fix up the mine and the home there and end up having a mine with over 100 employees. The story is told from the wife's view, she being utterly devoted to her husband who has only six years or so to live. Most of the account tells of the Mexicans in the town and their idiosyncrasies--some appealing, some decidedly not. The ending is hauntingly sad and while literary critics talk of being reminded of Katherine
Anne Porter, I thought of the poetical prose of W. H. Hudson. Much of the novel is overly sad and I thought that a mark against it, but the end is so dramatically moving I will give it five stars. A stunningly moving book I am glad I read.
4632 The Executioners, by John D. MacDonald (read 21 Oct 2009) This is a 1957 novel and the author's most famous. It tells of a guy whose testimony put a guy in prison and when he gets out he aims for revenge. This is hard-boiled crime fiction and really quite exciting. Well worth reading.
4633 The Judas Tree, by A. J. Cronin (read 23 Oct 2009) When I was a teenager I read five Cronin novels and thought highly of them, especially Cronin's first, the stark Hatter's Castle. This 1961 novel is very easy to read although quite predictable. David Moray, a Scottish medical student, meets Mary Douglas, who is engaged to an awful bore. David woos and wins her, but before marrying goes on a ship to India during which trip he is snared by Doris--an obvious loser--and marries her and never tells Mary. He has a terrible life till Doris dies. He then goes back to Scotland and meets Mary's daughter and woos and wins her. But said daughter wants to go to Africa as a missionary and won't marry David unless he goes with her. He agrees. It is kind of a soap-opera-like story but one wants to keep reading,even though one knows David is a loser. It was an enjoyable book, and since David was the central character and not, basically, admirable, the ending did not dismay.
4634 My Experiences in the World War Volume I, by John J. Pershing (read 26 Oct 2009) This tells of Pershing's time from when he was named commander-in-chief of the A.E.F. in May 1917 to April 1918. It is full of interest, though it is a straight-forward workmanlike account with no literary embellishment. The job of getting an American army to Europe before the Germans won was a tremendous one and one gets the idea that Germany surely would have won the war if the U.S. had not joined when it did.
4635 My Experiences in the World War Volume II, by John J. Pershing (read 28 Oct 2009) (Pulitzer History prize in 1932) This covers Pershing's time from April 1918 to the end on Nov 11, 1918. By Oct 31, 1918, there were 76,800 American officers and 1,397,825 enlisted men in Europe. In general, Pershing did not seem greatly interested in minimizing casualties but was eager for victorious results. Reading this account was more interesting than I expected and I am glad I read it.
4636 A Long Way Gone Memoirs of a Boy Soldier, by Ishmael Beah (read 30 Oct 2009) The author was born in 1980 in Sierra Leone and by the time he was 13 he was a soldier in the civil war there. His time as a soldier is extremely horrific and is not fun to read--killing, drug abuse, etc. He is eventually rehabilitated. There is some question as to the accuracy of the account. In fact it is so wildly gruesome one hopes it is not true. The account of his rehabilitation and his trip to New York and his escape from Sierra Leone is of much interest and is good reading. The author graduated from Oberlin College in 2004 and now lives in New York. The book was named as one of the three best non-fiction books of 2007 by Time.
Sorry to be so long-winded, but it was a good reading month, I thought


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Long winded ??? I love reading your reviews.
Schmerguls, we certainly are in agreement about the Brown book!
However, I did read the two books you did not want to read, not because I am blasphemous but because they are fiction and any belief or non-belief is made up, not real. They were much better than his new book.
However, I did read the two books you did not want to read, not because I am blasphemous but because they are fiction and any belief or non-belief is made up, not real. They were much better than his new book.

-----------------------------
Long winded ??? I love reading your reviews.
You said it for me, Alias, so all I need to say is ditto!
Lois

I like your reviews, too, Schmerguls - keep up the long windedness ~

Jan wrote: "I finished the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society and enjoyed it from beginning to end. I am putting it up for consideration for next year's discussion list. I'm currently reading The Glass Castle. It is a memoir by a woman whose parents were quite odd, to put it mildly..."
Yep, they bordered on "nuts". LOL
I felt the same way about the Guernsey book, Jan. Enjoyed every page.
Yep, they bordered on "nuts". LOL
I felt the same way about the Guernsey book, Jan. Enjoyed every page.

Scott Laming has compiled a list of the top ten depressing novels of all time:
( 1.) Cormac McCarthy, The Road
( 2.) Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar
( 3.) Thomas Hardy, Jude the Obscure
( 4.) George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
( 5.) Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
( 6.) John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
( 7.) Elie Wiesel, Night
( 8.) Nevil Shute, On the Beach
( 9.) Toni Morrison, The Bluest Eye
(10.) William Golding, Lord of the Flies
I have read all of the books listed except Atlas Shrugged (which I refuse to read since I was so put off by The Fountainhead (read June 15, 1951)). One has to agree that the other nine probably belong on the list. Any other candidates you can think of?
Interesting list, Schmerguls...
I have only heard about some of these depressing novels, but am not surprised at the inclusion of any of them. I think Toni Morrison is depressing in general. I watched the movie made from" Jude the Obscure"...ye gods, it was an awful story. I remember "Atlas Shrugged" as being a real downer. And "The Road"....even the reviewers who praised it said how oppressively depressing it was!
I have only heard about some of these depressing novels, but am not surprised at the inclusion of any of them. I think Toni Morrison is depressing in general. I watched the movie made from" Jude the Obscure"...ye gods, it was an awful story. I remember "Atlas Shrugged" as being a real downer. And "The Road"....even the reviewers who praised it said how oppressively depressing it was!
I read today that the movie version of "The Road" was made last year and held for release until later this month to have a better chance at Oscar time. The only actor I remember is Viggo Mortenson.
At this stage in my life, depressing novels are something I try to steer away from! :o)
Donna in Southern Maryland
At this stage in my life, depressing novels are something I try to steer away from! :o)
Donna in Southern Maryland

Yes.
Now in November

It is depressing but so beautifully written that i couldn't tear myself from it. How it ended, i do not recall, but the impression of the effects of drought, economic depression and mortgage remain with me. This novel won the Pulitzer in '35 and it seems a shame we know little of it today.
I have not read # 5, 8 or 9 from the list but agree with the remaining on the list. Who thought up such a list? LOL!
deborah

I have an ancient copy of On The Beach on my TBR shelf and also Atlas Shrugged. Though I found the philosophy Rand posits in The Fountainhead very objectionable, I do plan on reading Atlas, because it seems to be a book that well read people should be familiar with.
As for the others I did not like The Bluest Eye. I am not a Morrison fan. I also didn't like The Road. I'll take Stephen King's The Stand for my end of the world fix.
The rest I thought were very good reads and would recommend them.
Thanks for posting the list, Schmerguls.
Deborah, I have never heard of Now in November, nor of its author, so I did some exploring. Johnson wrote quite a few novels and NOW IN NOVEMBER won the Pulitzer Prize when the author was only 25 !!!!

I have read every Pulitzer-prize winning work of fiction...

Like Ethan Frome, the relatively brief, intense story evokes the torment possible among people isolated and driven by strong feelings of love and hate that, unexpressed, lead inevitably to doom. Reviewers in the thirties praised the novel, calling its prose "profoundly moving music," expressing incredulity "that this mature style and this mature point of view are those of a young women in her twenties," comparing the book to "the luminous work of Willa Cather," and, with prescience, suggesting that it "has that rare quality of timelessness which is the mark of first-rate fiction."
And Ethan Frome is a book which belongs on that list too, not?

Thanks to both JoAnn & Schmerguls for the additional information about Now in Nov & its author. Only 25! WOW! Impressive.
deborah

Scott Laming has compiled a list of the top ten depressing novels of all time:
( 1.) Cormac McCarthy,..."

Yes. The Dollmaker by Harriet Arnow. It was extremely depressing but is a book I found powerful and memorable. I can still remember how I felt while reading it.

Scott Laming has compiled a list of the top ten depressing novels of all time:
I've read quite a few of them - never wanted to read The Road, Toni Morrison or Lord of the Flies - Those are too depressing for me !)
The most depressing 2 books I ever read were Too Late the Phalorope by Alan Paton because it introduced me to the concepts of racism and betrayal - really hurt me that these things existed. The second was In Cold Blood by Truman Capote because I understood that heartlessness existed, and there was nothing to be done about it. Shocking idea. Both books depressed me for life.

That said, if I'm emotionally down I stay away from dark fiction, but I don't make a rule of reading only upbeat stories. My husband and I have a disagreement about The Road, which is dark, dark, dark. He thinks the conclusion is positive (power of love, capacity for self-sacrifice) while I think the author is completely pessimistic about humanity. Even there, the book is one which inspires discussion and provokes thought.
For what it's worth, I think Ethan Frome fits on the list of "depressing" novels. I declined to teach it in American Lit just because I thought the themes were beyond the maturity of my students, and I was afraid they'd throw their books at me.
Thanks for the mention of The Dollmaker, I've been meaning to read that for ages.

Yes. The Dollmaker by Harriet Arnow. It was extremely depressing but is a book I found powerful and memorable. I can still remember how I felt while readi..."
Like Sherry, this is a book i've been reading ever since i saw Jane Fonda in the film version. I think that was the '70s, for pity's sake!
Interesting question, re. "depressing", Sherry. Due to the quality of the books listed i suppposed the list creator meant books which were well written with an almost tragic (if not, in fact, tragic) outlook. I definitely walked away from Grapes of Wrath with a feeling of marvel for Steinbeck's writing, even though the ending continued the theme evidenced throughout the rest of the novel.
I suppose my definition of "depressing" might be that the conclusion offers no relief from the book's portrayal of the sad situation presented. The depression continued in Steinbeck, as did the holocaust, slavery, disabilities and on. The message was as much about "going on" as about anything else.
Having written that, i'm not sure Lord of the Flies is exactly along that line. However, i did not like that novel & wouldn't have put it there in the first place, so i think i'm safe in continuing with my own private definition. :-) And i positively believe that such novels must have themes worth consideration and worthwhile conversations about the state of humanity.
deborah

Chronicle of Youth: The War Diary 1913-1917, by Vera Brittain (read 14 Jul 1988) (Book of the Year)
Obviously I 'liked' the book very much, but it is the somberest book I think I have ever read.
I read The Dollmaker in 1956 and my personal life that year was so momentous that I am not sure I even realized how somber The Dollmaker was.
Odd that I came upon this article today....on the topic of uplifting reading
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...

4021. A Fine Balance a novel, by Rohinton Mistry (read 11 May 2005) This book by a man born in Bombay, India, and living in Canada, is laid in India during the time, around 1975, that Indira Gandhi was ruling by Decree. The novel reminds one of Dickens, at least in the beginning, but the story is stark and all of the characters are daunted by events. There is much violence and apparently no effective rule of law. I could not like the book much, since its theme is so stark and the characters live such alienated lives--at least after the evil befalls them. I like a more affirmative theme in a novel and so this long (603 pages) novel was not greatly appreciated, though Mistry is a facile and clear writer. But it is not a joyful book to read.
Thinking further about dark novels I know Hardy's Jude the Obscure was on the list. But Hardy's Tess is a far more memorable book I think and surely as bleak as a book can be...
As to the 'happy' books mentioned I know The Shipping News is a great favorite but my crabbed reaction to it was:
2628 The Shipping News, by E. Annie Proulx (read 19 Jul 1994) (Pulitzer Fiction prize in 1994) (National Book Award fiction prize in 1993) This tells of a guy who goes to Newfoundland and works for a paper there. It is full of local color, which would be of interest to Newfoundlanders but left me only vaguely interested. Besides dullness the free use of scatology in this book repelled me.
But I do agree as to Cold Comfort Farm:
3340. Cold Comfort Farm, by Stella Gibbons (read 28 Aug. 2000) When I read Precious Bane in October of 1992 I came to know that this 1932 book was a spoof on it and its dreariness and pessimism. This book is so funny, it is best read with no one else in the room cause I could not help laughing out loud many times. It is actually grotesque and airy and ends unbelievably happily.
I guess I will have to read some of the other books mentioned. I have been attracted to the title of Let the Great World Spin, but only because it reminds me of one of my favorite poems, Tennyson's Locksley Hall. Has anyone read Let the Great World Spin?

Rohinton Mistry's "A Fine Balance," for example, is about as dark a book as you can imagine—the scale of poverty, violence and corruption in India in the 1970s is monumental. But "A Fine Balance" is funny, too, and inspiring; it's a harmony.
--------------------------------
I don't see how anyone could recommend A Fine Balance to an reader that said, "The problem is, over the past few years, it seems that every book someone has recommended is depressing, sad and focuses on the dark side of life. Can you recommend some recent releases that are uplifting and joyful to read"
A Fine Balance is one of the most depressing books I've ever read. I became numb after a while to all the violence and pain. I just expected something bad to happen when I turned the page... and it did.... for 600 plus long pages. It is well written, but I would never recommend this to a person who wanted a more upbeat read.
Alias, I have not read A FINE BALANCE and never had any desire to do so...and I found this recommendation very odd.

I thought A Fine Balance was just awful. "funny"? "inspiring"? I don't think so, not unless you find rape, murder, injustice "funny". Not unless you find no progress, no rewards, no way out "inspiring". Yuck!
Did anyone (or everyone) see this (nice) overdue library book story on the news?
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article...
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article...

Jan wrote: "That reader was more conscientious than I would have been. I would sent a check just for the cost of the books. :-) I sure would like to know the titles."
They said them on the NBC Nightly News tonight, but I don't remember them!
Donna in Southern Maryland
They said them on the NBC Nightly News tonight, but I don't remember them!
Donna in Southern Maryland
Jan wrote: "That reader was more conscientious than I would have been. I would sent a check just for the cost of the books. :-) I sure would like to know the titles."
"Community of Living Things: Forests and Woodlands" and "Field and Meadows" - two books in a series published by the National Audubon Society
"Community of Living Things: Forests and Woodlands" and "Field and Meadows" - two books in a series published by the National Audubon Society

The Road - I agree it's depressing, but I like McCarthy's work;
Atlas Shrugged -- read it many years ago in college and don't really remember it well;
The Bluest Eye -- Read for book group a few years ago; it was depressing and I'm not a fan;
Lord of the Flies -- also read many years ago; my recollection is not of a depressing book, but perhaps I would feel that way now.
I would add A Fine Balance to this group. I thought it was well done but extremely sad and depressing.

In that case, I would have just tossed them. :-)

Once i accidentally had a similar thing happen to me. DH was headed for his first job & his company moved us. Little did i know the packers would pack EVERYTHING. Two books from the Dallas County libraries went with us. Since back then i rarely could afford to go home, it was almost 8 years before i was able to get the books back to Dallas.
I asked my mom, an avid user of the library system (although hers was different from the Dallas set), if she'd return them. I'd enclosed some cash for the overdue fine.
FIVE YEARS LATER i found those 2 books in one of the lesser used rooms of the house! I was amazed. But i returned them, along with more money (yes, the original money was still in the book!). I fear to try to get a card with that system again. ;-)
deborah
PS In case someone wants to know what the titles were, i can only recall one. It was a bio of Beatrix Potter. And i never did read it!

Scott Laming has compiled a list of the top ten depressing novels of all time:
I would definitely agree with having On The Beach as a Top 10 depressing book. I read it when I was a young teen, at the height of the Cold War, and it affected me as no other book ever has. All these years later I could probably recite the part where the young married couple gives their daughter Jennifer the shot, and climb into bed together with a cup of tea and the red pills they will swallow to end their lives. Fifty years later and I still remember it.
I would also add Johnny Got His Gun to the list of depressing books. A strong anti-war sentiment told in a very personal story and another book I'll never forget.
Connie
Deborah, loved your story --- and those unreturned books would have weighed heavily on my mind, too. Did you ever think of just mailing them back to the library
Now many libraries offer "amnesty" once a year for fines/overdue books, etc.
Now many libraries offer "amnesty" once a year for fines/overdue books, etc.

I've read it, Schmerguls, and recommend it to you. Now I have to find my copy of Locksley Hall to find the connection.
Lois

Lois
Kriverbend wrote: "I have read all the books on Laming's list, except Jude the Obscure. How about "House of Sand and Fog" as a a candidate for the list?
Lois
"
Oh, my, yes, Lois, that would certainly qualify (but I did love that book).
Lois
"
Oh, my, yes, Lois, that would certainly qualify (but I did love that book).

Not in vain the distance beacons. Forward, forward let us range,
Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change.
Thro' the shadow of the globe we sweep into the younger day;
Better fifty years of Europe than a cycle of Cathay.
Mother-Age (for mine I knew not) help me as when life begun:
Rift the hills, and roll the waters, flash the lightnings, weigh the Sun.
O, I see the crescent promise of my spirit hath not set.
Ancient founts of inspiration well thro' all my fancy yet.
Howsoever these things be, a long farewell to Locksley Hall!
Now for me the woods may wither, now for me the roof-tree fall.
Comes a vapour from the margin, blackening over heath and holt,
Cramming all the blast before it, in its breast a thunderbolt.
Let it fall on Locksley Hall, with rain or hail, or fire or snow;
For the mighty wind arises, roaring seaward, and I go.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Not in vain the distance beacons. Forward, forward let us range,
Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change.
..."
I do love Tennyson, especially Ulysses, but this one is very, very nice.

Now many libraries offer "amnesty" ..."
No, it never crossed my mind to mail those books. Odd, isn't it? And i can't tell you why it didn't occur to me, either.
I've heard of those library amnesty days & feel it is a great idea. My guess is they get many returns on those days. I hope so. Oh, i just realized my kids benefitted from such a day when they were in high school. Both of them checked out plays & kept them a very long time. To be fair, they usually paid the fines, however, some were so "lost" in their rooms that recovery took over a year. Ugh.
deborah

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