Support for Indie Authors discussion

Okay, so it’s telling from my outlining/research into The Last Damsel’s premise I have A LOT of mythos to include alongside the plot itself. I’m not writing just yet but I definitely want a vision of what approach I can take when I’m at the point and was hoping some members of this group would have ideas?

Here’s some of my predicament:

• I’m pretty set on using third-person for narration. First-person is more intimate but it’s also limiting in POV and would disrupt some of the fairytale vibe I’m hoping to include.

• Every character brought into the situation has amnesia – as in they can’t remember anything prior to arriving to the House or any personal details for themselves.

• The House itself is an odd place – lots of rules, nuance and details to run-through that wouldn’t be apparent or even rational for a newcomer.

It’s a mystical premise so I’m thinking of magically imparting characters with a basic amount of trivia concerning their situation (trivial trivia) that elaborates on information whenever it becomes relevant. Such as they didn’t know it, exactly, but recall it when they see or hear something related to that bit of trivia.

That way the characters have some working knowledge of a strange environment but can still be surprised or clueless, as the plot demands. I’m hoping that might keep the pace moving and avoid being too dense a premise since it wouldn’t be good to stop the plot every five pages to explain something for another three…

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I’m always wary of prologues since it seems to be a borderline taboo in publishing since readers and agents feel you’re pulling a cheap stunt to hook people in. Like an author is pulling a smash-and-grab on getting attention when they should have earned it in the first three chapters.

I’ve seen them work just fine in certain instances, but I think a prologue would hurt me in this story.

V.M. I’m leaning more towards your advice so far. I want mystery to circulate around “why” these characters don’t remember so much but know things they have no business knowing. It’s mostly just enough information to get by and function – the “everynight” stuff - but leaves open the possibility for unprecedented or rare situations to circulate through a run in the rumor mill and other hearsay and speculation around the House.

I don’t know – I would be freaked out if I didn’t know anything about myself but could do/understand things I shouldn’t know. It would make me wonder what’s happening and why I’m given that much of an advantage, how much I’m being controlled, etc. Hopefully that’s a tension I can try to instill for readers cause I get anxious just thinking about it lol

I'm probably not the guy to comment about this since we have "infodumps" galore in the view of some, but my thought is that VM has some good pointers.

Since characters have amnesia, that affords a way for the reader to learn things as they do. They can share info or learn by experience. That's generally a more entertaining way to bring the reader along.

The only caution I would have with this approach is that sometimes authors do the: "As is well known, ..." and then go for pages about what is well known. People rarely talk like that, and it can come across as stilted. But it sounds like that would be less likely to come up in your case.

I'm a fan of TvTropes and - since there is actually a trope called something like "As you know..." - I pretty much swore any such combination of that phrase is unlikely to cross my keyboard ;)

That and "not to mention". I can't remember where I read advice against it but the argument was basically if something is worth mention, then mention it lol

Thanks to everyone who contributed. I'm fiddling with an outline draft today (early early stages) and seeing how to set a tone for slipping in trace amounts of trivia/mythos without getting gratuitous or undermining the mystery :D

Info dumps are going to happen when worlds are creatively built. The key thing to remember is that you don't ever want to tell more than what's relevant to the story at that time.

It's a delicate balancing trick, and there's no easy answer to how much is too much. Partially because it's story-specific, but also because different readers have different tolerances.

But there are ways of approaching it that make it a bit easier. Like:

Offer small tidbits of information interspersed with dialog. Small things, things that the characters are likely to be thinking about as they talk, or that relate to specific scene related references.

Just remember that a lot of what you might want to disclose is already known by the characters. So they're not going to be thinking about or describing common knowledge to each other.

I mean in normal conversation you don't tell someone that you drove to the store in your automobile, an internal combustion engine vehicle made of steel and plastics and riding on rubber tires which are made from crude petroleum sucked out of the ground in far away places and then processed in large industrial plants and delivered via giant ships to...etc.

But...you can drop bits of info in narrative while characters are speaking or observing or whatever, if it's something they might be reminded of, or if it pertains to what's going on. It'll come out naturally then:

Janice watched her sister from a distance. Alicia had her arms around Terry's broad shoulders. The two were laughing casually. Amazing. A few short years ago the scene would have caused a blood bath. The Campinellis and Donovans were from different cadres: warring cadres. A lot had changed.

And, of course, sometimes it's just impossible to avoid, or is at least very expedient to go on for several paragraphs to cover info that's vital at that point in the story.

But no matter how much effort you've put into world building, you should resist the temptation to just tell it all because you like it and are proud of it.

Take Tolkien's example instead. His mythos is bubbling up all through Lord of the Rings, but it only ever really gets specifically talked about when characters recite poems, sing songs, or recount some ancient history. He didn't dwell on it in his prose, but he let it inform his writing deeply.

Seriously, world-building and making mythos seem common place is such a trick. I'm sure I'll get a feel for it after trying a few scenes out and rewriting those a couple times. I'm optimistic, though, because I'm at least aware of what I want and the problem I'm trying to avoid. Far better than chopping out and condescending 40k words after someone does a read through for me and says they were bored lol

If you anticipate writing a sequel, take that into account, as well. One problem with sequels is having things come out of the blue, which can be jarring.

Micah's point about not including extra details of backstory or world building just because they are awesome and shiny is well taken. (Not that I always abide by it. Where there is no sin, there can be no forgiveness, right?)

I've been reading along and haven't had much to offer because I am guilty of the info dump (and a fan of TVtropes, so I am aware of nearly everything that I do wrong). I will say that in some circumstances, it can't be avoided. At some point a character is going to have to explain something to another character. It's natural, so draw of those natural instances for inspiration. Instead of a wall of text, have characters interupt and ask questions. Heck, I even let my characters get sidetracked every once in a while if I feel it's turning into a two hour lecture type situation.
Don't know exactly how helpful that is. :)

It's a good thing I'm a proponent of outlining and itemizing the world and premise before outlining the plot itself. It's giving me plenty if opportunities to zero in on the essentials of my story and sounding them out before even considering how they would/could/should be incorporate into the book.

So far keeping an outline for the setting and a separate one for the plots and subplots is allowing me to get the story in order without bogging myself down in detail. Eventually they'll merge into a single entity but - for now - it's nice having the bare bones and meat of the story forming in one place while the fairer features are getting fleshed out elsewhere :D