The Sword and Laser discussion

Ok, did anyone get Hwel's references? I figured out from the way they worded that he was basically referencing modern movies over and over again as a running gag, but I could never put my finger on any of the references exactly. There was one about some "Stanleigh." Another that might have been the three stooges? Maybe? Or possibly Marx Brothers? One late in the novel about winning one for Corporal Walkowski and his dog, which seems really specific a reference, but unless I'm overlooking something, googling that only leads back to Wyrd Sisters.

Stanleigh would be Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy fame.

There are at least 2 references to the Marx Brothers. The first one is a variation on a scene from "Duck Soup". 2nd is a Chico & Harpo scene.(The clownes)

There is also a Charlie Chaplin reference later on.
"I had a dream about a little bandy-legged man walking down a road. He had a little black hat on, and he walked as though his boots were full of water.... he had this little cane which he twirled"

He used to do this quite a lot in his earlier books. Moving Pictures & Soul Music are full of them.

I recommend checking out The Annotated Pratchett Files for this book: http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/wyrd-...

It definitely explained anything I didn't catch, reference-wise.

wow, that's a great resource. Can't believe I missed the Godot reference.

Unless I'm missing something, it still doesn't explain Corporal Walkowski and his dog, alas

David wrote: "I recommend checking out The Annotated Pratchett Files for this book: http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/wyrd-...

It definitely explained anything I didn't catch, reference-wise."

Urge to reread whole series, this time with annotations...rising...

There's the bit about the crashed boat. The annotations link it to The Tempest, but I think it could also be a reference to Gilligan's Island at the same time.

Joanna wrote: "There's the bit about the crashed boat. The annotations link it to The Tempest, but I think it could also be a reference to Gilligan's Island at the same time."

Always possible, but I'm unconvinced. It's a short-lived comedy that was on US TV in the 1960s - believe me, England is pretty far removed from US television even now, and would have been much more so back in the eighties. Wikipedia also suggests that the current fame of the show comes from it being shown in syndication after school during the seventies and eighties... Pratchett, as a bookish adult Englishman in 1989, was probably not completely au fait with what American schoolkids were watching when they got home in the afternoon!

But his tastes were ecclectic, so you never know...

It could be any of hundreds of ship wreck movies/TV. I would lean towards the suggested "The Tempest" because of all the other Shakespeare references.

A person of Pratchett's age would have been familiar with Gilligan's Island even if he never watched it. You have to remember in the 60's & 70's there wasn't the number of channels there is now. Any popular show pre-90's would have had public awareness.

I only had access to 2 channels until I was in my 30's (one was the government owned channel)

I loved Gilligan's Island when I was a kid ( in the 60's). It does not stand up to viewing as an adult :-?

Well yeah, there weren't many channels, so there wasn't much exposure for obscure american imports.

Looking it up: 13 episodes of Gilligan's Island were shown in the UK, in black and white, in 1965, once, and never repeated. Except that apparently there was another brief run in Yorkshire in 1970.

He may have heard of it, even back in the eighties, but I doubt he'd have thought enough about it - or remembered enough about it - to have made a joke about it.

Huh. It occurs to me that a more on-the-nose reference can make a person feel special for knowing what it is and being certain that they know what it is. But a vaguer reference that can apply to a couple of different things could hit a wider audience because you're not quite sure.

As for me, I know Gilligan's Island because they'd show it on TV land for a while there when I was an adolescent. But I know almost nothing about Beverley Hills Cop (fun theme song, though).

Gilligans island was a kind of firefly or (or maybe original Star Trek is a better comparison)-- canceled very quickly but also a well known cult classic.

That said, yeah, doubtful that Pratchett is referencing it. If the passage were in ballad meter I'd buy it.

Well known in the US, is my point, due to syndication. If people have heard of it in the UK, it's almost only as a result of the title being mentioned a lot in more famous US media.

I am surprised it isn't well known in the UK. I would have assumed the UK and Australia would have had similar TV shows in the 60's & 70's.
But it looks like I'd be wrong. Gilligan's Island was huge in Australia. It is up there with "Get Smart" & "Hogan's Heroes" as cult classic comedies from the 60's. Only the latter 2 still hold up today.

We had a healthy mix of US, UK & some (shit) Australian content.