Books I Want To Talk About discussion

Please discuss the first part of Eat Pray Love here. What do you think about Elizabeth's journey in Italy?

Dini - I finally finished my books that were "must reads" for April so I've finally started this one! I'm only through chapter 1 (I know, 3 pages - whoo hoo). But I'm enjoying it so far. Right now she seems to have the right amount of humor with her story telling. I'm eager to learn more about why she's where she's at though.

But, having been to Italy, just this first chapter brings back some very lovely memories. I'm looking forward to reading about India and Bali because I've never been to either place. Almost to Bali, but didn't quite make it. Some day, I will hopefully get to both.

Meghan, so glad you've started reading this! The description of food in Italy was really mouthwatering. Mmm. I'm now longing for some pasta just from talking about it.

I read this book while I was in Italy last month (not while I was in Rome). So much of how Gilbert describes Italian culture rang true. I will post some more details when I get a chance.

Okay, I'm up to Chapter 8 in Italy. I haven't had much time to read. But I'm really enjoying the book. I've gone through a divorce myself so this is very interesting to compare stories and emotions.

I am also enjoying her description of her Italian conversation partner. That would entice me to go to Italy to learn the language! ha!

Dini - Didn't have internet for a day, but I have lots of thoughts on Italy. Will post tomorrow. All I can say is I'm REALLY enjoying this book!

Glad you like it Meghan. I'd love to hear your insights on the book.

Ok. Here are my thoughts on what I've read so far. I had some really good ones while I read it, but it may not come out so well days later. So pardon me if it's not very eloquent.

Introduction - I love learning bits of weird trivia. I'm fascinated that the medieval knights witnessed worshippers using the japa malas during the Crusades, admired the technique, and brought the idea home calling it a rosary.

I'm not Catholic nor Buddhist nor Hindu. So learning about this is quite interesting. I like that there are 108 beads to help with your meditation, but there is an extra bead, the 109, that is there to make you stop and thank your teachers. I think, in life, we need to apply that 109th bead a little more often and give thanks. I think it would go a long way in improving our appreciation and contentment in life.

Chapter 2 - I've been through a divorce. Unlike the author, I was the one left. But I am a little surprised by the similarity in the feelings one has. I suppose the end of a marriage, or a long-term relationship, probably has some universality to it.

"I don't want to be married anymore. I don't want to live in this big house. I don't want to have a baby."

"Why did I feel so overwhelmed with duty..."

"I only exhausted him. We both knew there was something wrong with me, and he'd been losing patience with it."

Part 5

"If you really want to STOP knowing someone, you have to divorce him. Or her. Because this is what happened between me and my husband. I believe that we shocked each other by how swiftly we went from being the people who knew each other best in the world to being a pari of the most mutually incomprehensible strangers who ever lived."

It's a little too close to home at times, but on the other hand, it's rather comforting knowing that you're not the only one who goes through something like this.


"Having a baby is like getting a tattoo on your face. You really need to be certain it's what you want before you commit."

People need to have this ingrained in their brains.

Chapter 3 (or Story 3? Not sure how she put it) - It kind of felt like she was apologizing for her faith (or lack thereof). It kind of bugged me. I don't think she has to be a reverand or Dali Lama to speak about her beliefs. So what if it's not what someone else believes? It's her book, she can write whatever she wants. I don't know, it just kind of bugged me.

Part 4 - I really liked her answer when she prayed.

"Go back to bed, because you don't need to know the final answer right now, at three o'clock in the morning on a Thursday in November. Go back to bed because I love you. Go back to bed, because the only thing you need to do for now is get some rest and take good care of yourself until you do now the answer. Go back to bed so that, when the tempest comes, you'll be strong enough to deal with it."

I think that's good advice whenever you are worrying about something and it's keeping you up at night. It's kind of what I like about this book. It's common sense wisdom, but put in an easily digestible way.

Part 8

"You must keep your feet grounded so firmly on the earth that it's like you have four legs, instead of two. That way, you can stay in the world. But you must stop looking at the world through your head. You must look through your heart, instead. That way, you will know God."

For some reason this advice really struck a chord in me. Almost like the way The Alchemist did. I'm not sure why, but it just felt very meaningful to me in a very abstract way.

I like books that touch me and inspire me to be a better person. Not just kinder or be more generous. But to encourage me to search for the things that make me happy. My whole life was about pleasing other people. Not because I was raised by evil parents who browbeat into believing I wasn't good enough (I actually had the opposite--always encouraging me and telling me I could do anything). Probably because they were so good to me I wanted to make them happy. And then I got married and I wanted to make my husband happy. But I never stopped and asked myself "what would make ME happy."

And the sad thing I found out (the hard way), is that if you don't make yourself happy first, you cannot make other people happy. American women are constantly told that to make themselves happy (first, second, or even at all) is completely selfish. So they exhaust themselves into pleasing everyone else until they are dried up and bitter because they have nothing left to give.

I'm not sure if it's part of our nurture nature or societal pressures to be the "perfect" wife, mother, daughter, etc. But ladies, I challenge you to do something that makes YOU happy once a DAY. I think you will find that you are much more able to do the things that please others when you yourself are happy.

Okay, last one for tonight.

Part 9

"both pleasure and devotion require a stress-free space in which to flourish."

At first I thought it was a little off to say "stress-free" space because when do we really ever have a stress-free moment in our lives?

But after pondering this for a few days, I've come to agree. The happiest moments in my life, where I have truly enjoyed myself to the fullest, are when I stopped worrying about everything.

And you can't "devote" yourself to anything if your mind is somewhere else.

So I think the guru is right, and I (like the author) worry too much.

My hope is that somewhere in this book, I find a passage that helps my brain "get it" and not worry so much.

Love your comments, Meghan! You articulate your thoughts so much better than I do. Heh.

I think Liz talked about her take on religion in part 3 like that because not everybody is as open-minded as she is, or as you are, Meghan. Religion is a very sensitive issue for some, so maybe that's why she seemed apologetic.

It's funny that you said women who want to make themselves happy are labeled selfish, cause that's exactly how some people see Liz Gilbert. Many reviews here in Goodreads and elsewhere have said that she came across as very self-centered in EPL. But how else can you heal yourself other than to start within?

Dini - thanks! That means a lot to me considering I love your comments. They're all so well thought out and well written.

I think you're right about Part 3. I guess that just makes me sad that in this day and age we can't just talk about things without having to apologize to every other sector that happens to disagree with you.

I've read some critiques about this book, and they did say she was self-indulgent. I find that infinitely sad about our culture today. What makes her self-indulgent or selfish?

Is it because she left her husband? Broke it off with her on-again-off-again boyfriend? I was the one left in my marriage. I did not ask for it to happen. It was a shock and broke my heart. I fought with everything I had to keep it going. But I can never be bitter about it. To leave a relationship that you know, in your heart, that is wrong--for you AND your partner--takes courage and strength. It is far easier to stay and be miserable. It takes great bravery to walk away (or rather walk towards happiness). I can be sad and angry over how he behaved, but I will never be sad or angry that he left. His leaving gave me the first opportunity in my life to seek out a happiness that I choose for myself.

One of my favorite passages is when she ended things with David. "It's all for the best, I know it is. I'm making space for the unknown future to fill up my life with yet-to-come surprises." (p. 85 - Part 28)

Or is she selfish because she didn't want the Donna Reed life? She didn't want kids? She didn't want the white picket fence?

Is she selfish because she wanted to make herself happy? Because she wanted to travel? Because she sought pleasure when she should have been working or trying to build relationships or going mindlessly about her day?

Another passage struck me as so true about Americans. "Americans have an inability to relax into sheer pleasure. Ours is an entertainment-seeking nation, but not necessarily a pleasure-seeking one." (p. 61 - Part 21)

I think this goes hand-in-hand with the selfish argument. It's perfectly acceptable to seek out entertainment. We live for being entertained. But pleasure, well, that goes against our Puritan background. Pleasure is a sin. Pleasure is self indulgence. It's for the Lord Henrys of the world, but not your everyday, average man (or woman).

But I'll say it again (and again and again and again). You have to learn to make yourself happy in order to be able to make others happy. My husband says one of his greatest pleasure is watching me laugh. He says when I'm happy the whole world is different, brighter, bigger. When I'm stressed or unhappy, I'm tense, moody, distant. Even if I suck it up and do what he wants to do or not "snappish", it's different that when I'm happy and sunny and light. I make everything, even the mundane, fun. I think that's true for everyone.

And well, if that's selfish, that by all means, please, for the love of humanity, go be selfish for a moment.

I was thinking about your first comment, Dini, about the food. I was like, "when are we going to get to the food?" Well, I've gotten to the food. And boy, does it make me want to buy a ticket and go back to Italy!

Part 27, when she goes to Naples, I was drooling. I've been to Naples 3x. I have to say, Naples on a Sunday is FAR different than what she describes.(The ship docked in Naples every time on Sunday. I don't know how I managed that.) Although I did see a fight in the street. (Two guys got into an altercation, which would have been scary, but the sight of two "macho" men getting off their scooters just kind of ruined the whole "macho"ness of the scene. There was a lot of yelling. But I think the author is right in that Italian is so beautiful, that their yelling wasn't scary, just loud.)

But on my third time in Naples, we went to Capri (an island off Naples) and had the most gorgeous lunch. Probably THE best food I had in Italy. It was like eating the sea and the sun and the earth. The sun was beating down but not overly hot. It was just the perfect day.

It sort of reminded me of her time in Naples though. It was just the perfect sort of moment. Although now I'm dying to try that pizzeria. I am a Chicago deep dish kind of pizza girl. So I hate thin crust pizza. And I've been to Naples. I've tried their pizza. And yep, still not a thin crust kind of girl. But if I had the pizza that she described, I might be a convert. I did have the best seafood pasta in Naples though. It was like eating the sea and all its goodness. And it's nothing like what you get in the States. And I've had the best of both the west coast and the east coast.

This is also why I love traveling. The food just tastes different in each place. You could order the same food (say a tomato) and it would taste differnt in each place you go. Not necessarily better, but different. Maybe this is why I'm identifying with this book. It's not her emotional journey. It's her edible journey I love so much. (I could eat my way through any country. heh)

I was touched by the lines from Louise Gluck's poem she quoted. So here is the whole poem:

The Wild Iris

At the end of my suffering
there was a door.

Hear me out: that which you call death
I remember.

Overhead, noises, branches of the pine shifting.
Then nothing. The weak sun
flickered over the dry surface.

It is terrible to survive
as consciousness
buried in the dark earth.

Then it was over: that which you fear, being
a soul and unable
to speak, ending abruptly, the stiff earth
bending a little. And what I took to be
birds darting in low shrubs.

You who do not remember
passage from the other world
I tell you I could speak again: whatever
returns from oblivion returns
to find a voice:

from the center of my life came
a great fountain, deep blue
shadows on azure sea water.

I actually really enjoyed the imagery of the fountains. I don't know if it's the washing off the old or the springing forth new life or what. Or just the thought of all those gorgeously sculpted fountains you find throughout Rome. But whichever the reason, it just soothes me.

Okay, can I just say that I laughed out loud in Part 13 when she talked about how she was like an 'escaped zoo animal' when she toured China? It's not like that so much in Beijing, but it's almost like a drinking game. Drink if you see a laowai (foreigner). I love this "game", I suppose, because for the first time in my life, I do not stick out. I am like everyone else. I look the same. I am not someone's "asian" friend. So I have a good time picking out the other people who aren't part of the norm. I guess I just like being part of the majority for once.

I really, REALLY enjoyed her discussion on why she wanted to take Italian and why other people in her class were taking it.

I loved, loved, loved the Russian woman's response: "I think I deserve something beautiful." (p. 44 - Part 15).

I have friends that I want to mail this book to simply for that line. I want them to realize they deserve (yes DESERVE) something beautiful too. If there is anything I can do as a friend is to make sure my friends know they are beautiful and DESERVE something beautiful.

There are so many things I want for my daughter--good health, happiness, wealth to achieve her goals, motivation and drive to have goals, a few loves, one great love, etc. But if there is one thing I can give my daughter is a never faltering belief in herself that she deserves to be happy, she deserves beauty and joy and love.

It never fails to surprise me when I meet a successful, intelligent, well-educated woman and then I get to know her, and I realize she doesn't truly believe that she deserves to be happy. To do something lovely for herself is such a foreign idea it almost never occurs to her. She will sacrifice everything for her family and friends, but taking the time to take a class on something she's always wanted to learn (be it cooking or karate or a foreign language), getting a pedicure or massage, buying a new dress because it looks good on her (not because she can wear it to work), spending the day in her pjs and reading her favorite author is a luxury she simply can't afford for herself. She will actually tear up at the thought of doing something so selfish as to pamper herself. It just shocks me and makes me feel so sad for them that emptiness that they refuse to fill.

I like all the little Italian phrases she teaches us. My favorite is actually what "a close friend" is: un'amica stretta. "But stretta literally means tight, as in clothing, like a tight skirt. So a close friend, in Italian, is one that you can wear tightly, snug against your skin." (P. 57 - Part 20)

I have lots of superficial friends, but there are only a handful of people I would call un'amica stretta. But for those that I would call that it is about as appropriate definition of them as I can get.

In Part 24, she talks about how difficult it is for her learning Italian. "I keep hoping it will one day just be revealed to me, whole, perfect. One day I will open my mouth and be magically fluent." (p. 71)

Since I am moving to china and have not an ounce of Chinese in me (both dna-wise or verbal), I am learning what the US Government classifies as a Level III language ("exceptionally difficult"). I had an "aha! moment" when I figured out the 4 different tones. I can now pronounce everything correctly. However, there are syllables that I can't even pronounce because it's not in the English language. ("ts"...seriously, my mouth does not form correctly to pronounce that sound.)

I keep hoping for that magical moment where I can have a conversation that doesn't involve me saying "wo bu ming bai ni shou shenme." (I do not understand what you're saying.)

Thanks for sharing the poem Meghan, it's beautiful.

"My husband says one of his greatest pleasure is watching me laugh." Well, I say your husband deserves a hug for that! So sweet.

I love the bits of history on Rome and the Italian language in the book. I also love how Liz can be so relaxed and enjoy her time in Italy. If only I can spend four months not working or worrying about anything like that!

Another meaningful part for me was Part 18, when Depression and Loneliness began knocking on her door. I love the way she can speak to her inner self through writing, and that person said in such a comforting way:

"I'm here. I love you. ...There's nothing you can ever do to lose my love. I will protect you until you die, and after your death I will still protect you. I am stronger than Depression and I am braver than Loneliness and nothing will ever exhaust me."

And also this one:

"Never forget that once upon a time, in an unguarded moment, you recognized yourself as a friend."

Meghan: You and I share much in common! I, too, have been divorced, and I was the one who was left. Like the author, when we separated, it was the first time I had ever lived alone. Even though I was devastated, I think I recognized, even at the time, that this was a time for me to figure out who I was and what I enjoyed. I'm not sure I gained the most from striving to be happy. What I really needed to learn was that I was a capable person, and I didn't need to lean so much on somebody else for everything. It took a long time to learn that! I remember in medical school, 4 years after the divorce, I was talking to a friend of mine and telling him how proud I was to have driven into Philadelphia at night to meet a friend for a movie. His response was *You *are* a grown woman, Robbie!" I think that was the first time I really understood that! I just thought I always needed someone for protection.

When I went to Italy, I discovered that the art, more than the food, was what affected me the most. I expected it to be the food, but the art stuff was just so new to me. (The food pleasure actually came in Greece!) I probably would have stayed in Florence or the Cinque Terre instead of Rome.

So, the divorce, recurring depression, and the need to nurture my spirit and independence are what I relate to most. Sure, Ms. Gilbert is self-indulgent and more privileges than most, but she acknowledges it. Most people could take the same journey of self-discovery, nurture of spirit and relationship with God on a much lower budget.

Several times during the book, I was reminded of Michele (from RGBC). She has lived such an adventurous life!

OMG, Robbie. Thank you so much for sharing that! Isn't it weird (or maybe not) how similar this one event is for people? Plus, it's great to hear, considering how well you "turned out"! hee

I also agree with your assessment of Gilbert. I think you have to be, to a certain extent, self-indulgent, after your heart has been torn in two. I get that it's hard to not be a little jealous of her process considering all that she got to do, but if that's what worked for her, then kudos to her.

You've now inspired me to finish this book. I wanted to journal this book, since it spoke to me so deeply. But that meant I had to go back and re-read Italy. So I've put it down for "lighter" reads. But I need to know what happens.

Thanks for posting!

Oh and Dini - I LOVE that passage:

"I'm here. I love you. ...There's nothing you can ever do to lose my love. I will protect you until you die, and after your death I will still protect you. I am stronger than Depression and I am braver than Loneliness and nothing will ever exhaust me."

My Italy section is almost completely underlined! I had to restrain myself because it was just ridiculous to have the entire book underlined! (ok, I'm exaggerating, but that's what it felt like. I just love her little "nuggets".)

I agree that her disclaimer on what she believed, etc., was kind of over-the-top in a defensive way.
People can quickly get out of sorts or angry about religion and spirituality, sometimes with very little provocation. I guess I have experienced this before many times, so I totally understand where she's coming from.

And why is it that people have to call Gilbert self-indulgent? Is it jealousy because these people always stop themselves from doing what they really want to do? We all deserve something beautiful, and reaching out to take it isn't necessarily self-indulgent. Sometimes you just have to take care of you.

This book made me cry and laugh, and so many other cliches...
I don't know about you, but I am about to get real selfish!! ;)

My first *selfish* act was to make a horribly cheesy, garlicy, saucy pasta dish and sit down with an awsome bottle of wine.
It was GREAT!!

Julie, the pasta sounds delicious! Good for you :)

The issue of Gilbert being self-indulgent is a non-issue if you realize that self-indulgence is not a pejorative but rather a requirement for being a complete person in charge of your own destiny.

Julie - New rule! No postings about delicious food...unless you bring some to share! (kidding)

GOOD FOR YOU!

Ed - Nice point.

Hi! I have been dying to read this book so I could participate in this discussion! So I just finished Book 1, or "Italy," or "Eat," whatever you want to call it!

I have to admit, I was hesitant at first because the motive behind Gilbert's going on this journey is something I have not experienced. I'm not married, but I do have a long relationship and I have always been content where I am and I've never had the desire to break away and search for "everything," as Gilbert calls it. However, I felt her pain because she described it so well and I thought what she did by getting out of her marraige wasn't selfish at all. I became a fan of hers instantly.

When she was in Italy, let me tell you, the food thing really got me jealous. I had to eat pizza last night because I was craving that food so much over the past couple days. Also, that part where she prayed on the floor of her apartment in Rome and told herself "I love you," that was so beautiful and I don't care who you are or what you do/don't have in common with Gilbert - EVERYONE can be touched by that part. I already know that this is a book I'll constantly want to read again and again because of that. I've learned a lot of things about self-love already, and it's only Book 1! I'm so excited for 2 and 3!

Can't wait to read what you have to say about the rest of the book. I love it when a book gets you excited like that. You know you've found something special.

Allison, the "I love you" part was one of my most favorite moments in the book.

Meghan, I can't wait to read the rest also! I'll definitely want to discuss it with you, I really liked and agreed with your interpretations and what you have to say as well!

Dini, I saw that you quoted our favorite part up above! Wasn't that just beautiful? I read it over and over again. I feel like getting it plastered on my wall or something!

Well, I thought I was going to get to this month, but it looks like that's not going to happen. But it's on my next-to-read for October.

I started India, which is a little harder to relate to just because I have no background in meditation. But I find it interesting for that reason.

I felt the same way, that India was the hardest for me. I just tried to read it slow and really understand what she went through - I think you'll enjoy it!