The History Book Club discussion

This is the thread where discussion can take place regarding the British Parliament which includes the House of Lords and the House of Commons. Any and all discussions about government can take place here.

There will be a separate thread set up to discuss Prime Ministers.

WELCOME TO THE UNITED KINGDOM PARLIAMENT:

http://www.parliament.uk/

I have just come across a very interesting book on a most interesting British politician/statesman; William Pitt, 1st Earl of Chatham or better know as 'Pitt the Elder'.

by Edward Pearce
Publishers blurb:
This remarkable book opens at the dawn of the British Empire - with the great sea battle at Quiberon Bay where French ships, intended for the 1759 invasion of Britain, are chased, caught and defeated by a fleet commanded by Admiral Sir Edward Hawke. In this momentous victory Britain effectively settled the outcome of the Seven Years War and established itself as the world's dominant imperial power. At the heart of the conflict with France was William Pitt, the first Earl of Chatham and Britain's future Prime Minister. Weaving together military history and political biography Edward Pearce provides a portrait of the man 'with an eye like a diamond' - a man who had close ties with the slave trade and who preached war and British supremacy on a world stage. Alongside detailed descriptions of battles in Europe and North America we follow Pitt's career as a politician - one that was closely intertwined with General James Wolfe at Quebec; American independence; and, the slow mind of George III and the quick one of the rake and outsider John Wilkes. Posterity has invested Pitt with a mystique - presented him as heroic, a titan, a brilliant statesman and military strategist. Edward Pearce scrutinises the reputation and investigates the extent to which Britain's victories and imperial advances can be credited to Pitt alone or to a coalition of commanders, naval administrators and foreign allies such as Frederick the Great of Prussia. He also shows us Pitt the man - vain, ruthless, tortured with physical illness, succumbing to mental collapse. "Pitt the Elder" is a masterful portrait of arguably the most powerful minister ever to guide Britain's foreign policy and of an age which marked a new epoch in history, when the balance of power in Europe and the world was set for almost two centuries.

Thank you very much Aussie Rick for this add; we really need to give this section some more attention and your assistance is greatly appreciated.

John Wells The House of Lords is an entertaining and well researched book that traces the history of the house to the present day. A thoroughly good read!

Why thank you Harvey for your add as well. That also sounds like a terrific read.

Welcome... Wells manages to combine the history, anecdote and the evolution of the Lords in an easy style that I found both informative and an easy, comfortable read. Hope others feel the same.

Hi Bentley & Harvey, I must confess that I have a dislike for politicians in general but I do find English politics a bit more interesting than the home-grown type. I have actually decided to purchase a copy of "Pitt the Elder" as I have come across him and Pitt the Younger in many of the books I have previously read on the Napoleonic period. I think it would be good to learn more of the background of the political system that governs the United Kingdom, Australia and many other counties of the Commonwealth.

by Edward Pearce

Yes, that looks good too.

Here is a good article considering the election:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/...

Q&A: The UK political system explained

London, England (CNN) -- The United Kingdom votes on a new government May 6 through a political system that dates back centuries.

When does an election happen?

The UK has no written constitution. Instead the country's electoral system is based on a series of parliamentary acts dating back to the 17th century, when men wore the sort of tights and wigs still donned on ceremonial occasions by some officials of the Houses of Parliament.

A general election is when voters nationwide choose lawmakers who will sit in the House of Commons, the lower chamber which initiates and approves legislation.

An election must take place, by law, at least every five years. That said, governments can call an election at any time during their term. They could also be forced into an election if they lose a majority of lawmakers in the Commons.

Note: The article also explains a "hung parliament".

Analysis: Is the UK heading for political deadlock?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/...

Source: CNN

The UK Election Blog

http://ukelection.blogs.cnn.com/

Source: CNN

The Heart of British Parliament: Parliament Square

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2010/uk.e...

Source: CNN

Interesting what will happen. BBC are suggesting that (as we speak) Conservatives, my party, will be 21 seats short of a majority. God only knows what reality will be!

Some have stated 29 short and Cameron waits on......Labour will probably try to form a coalition government (Lib Dems are more congenial with Labour than with Conservatives) - just MHO

It might certainly be a hung parliament from all accounts thus far.

Well so far Harvey, your guys seem to be doing alright and holding their own for sure. Does not look like anybody is going to win? An odd system for sure...I guess it goes to overtime and backroom coalition negotiation.

Very strange.

Bentley

Strange but true.... Still some seats to be counted, obviously a few very tight results. I personally would have no problems working with the Lib-Dems. We have to see what happens on the ground!

According to the pundits, Lib Dems would only go with Labour - not too keen on Conservatives. I think the Conservatives will have a heck of a time making the magic number. Not too good right now for anyone.

True... very true. When the dust settles we will see how pragmatic any two or three parties will be. There was a Lib/Lab pact some years ago. Did not last very long though; an unusual, though not unique situation.

Might be more palatable because of what Clegg and Libs wants nowadays. For some reason the Conservatives are an anathema in most of the UK aside from England itself. Scotland steers clear of Conservatives since Thatcher.

Hung parliament: Darling urges deal decision 'today'

Chancellor Alistair Darling says the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats must decide on Monday whether or not they will form a government together.

The two parties are set to enter their third day of talks about a potential power-sharing agreement after Friday's inconclusive election result.

"I just think there comes a point where you have to decide if there is a deal or no deal," Mr Darling told the BBC.

Remainder of article: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/po...

Hung parliament: Assessing Clegg's dilemma over options

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/po...

"A deliciously painful torture mechanism".

That's what the voters have given the Liberal Democrats, according to former leader Lord Ashdown.

Given what he said in the campaign, Nick Clegg felt he had no option but to allow the Tories first crack at forming a government.

He always maintained the party with the most votes and seats would have the "moral authority" to try.

But, if that party had been Labour rather than the Conservatives, a deal might already have been done.

Live Election Site on BBC News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/electi...

Nick Clegg: Brown resignation 'could be important'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/po...

If only I was a fly on the cabinet room wall!

I was thinking the same thing. Gordon did not wake up this morning and say I think I will resign. I think that the Lib Dems are basically setting the ground rules for the government to be formed with Labour. I could not see them aligning with the Conservatives but I have been wrong before.

Well... the Lib/Dems got a promise of a referendum from Cameron! The opera ain't over 'till the fat lady sings!

U.K. Coalition Government Makes Debut in Parliament

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...

Nice ties guys

This book explores the debate on the reform of the House of Lords and analyzes its work in the wider context of constitutional reform. The author examines the considerable changes that the House has undergone and looks at ways in which it might be further reformed. The book provides a clear overview and a critical analysis of proposals for its reform. It looks at the legislative work of the House and considers its relationship with the Commons and the Government. Arguments for and against a unicameral system are considered and comparisons made with second chambers in other countries. Finally, past and present proposals for reform are examined, as are the obstacles in the way of reform and the future of the Constitution. Scholarly and not an easy read but if you are interested in the workings of the Upper Chamber, it is worthwhile.

by Donald R. Shell

It appears that the USA is not the only nation whose citizens question whether they are getting a return on the salaries paid to members of their governing bodies. Here is the latest on the debate in Parliament on that subject.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics...

Reforming the House of Lords

by Meg Russell

Synopsis
The constitution of Britain is changing rapidly, and the House of Lords is next on the agenda for reform. But while Britain takes on many of the features of other countries' constitutions, the Lords reform debate remains insular and backward-looking. This book provides an international context, using material as yet unpublished in the UK.

Thank God we are different to the rest of the world! The House of Lords is Britain's virtue.
Gilbert and Sullivan's Iolanthe summed it up very well a hundred years ago;

When Britain really ruled the waves –
(In good Queen Bess’s time)
The House of Peers made no pretence
To intellectual eminence,
Or scholarship sublime;
Yet Britain won her proudest bays
In good Queen Bess’s glorious days!
CHORUS. Yes, Britain won, etc.
When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
As every child can tell,
The House of Peers, throughout the war,
Did nothing in particular,
And did it very well:
Yet Britain set the world ablaze
In good King George’s glorious days!
CHORUS. Yes, Britain set, etc.
And while the House of Peers withholds
Its legislative hand,
And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere with matters which
They do not understand,
As bright will shine Great Britain’s rays
As in King George’s glorious days!

Wonderful, Harvey. It appears that the operetta still has influence......I read where Lord Falconer, Tony Blair's Lord Chancellor was influenced by Iolanthe in his move to reform or disband that office. I'm sure that Gilbert/Sullivan would be thrilled!!

But the beauty of the Lords is that, in my opinion, it is was NOT like any republic's upper chamber. G & S were poking fun, but mostly the Lords represented a wealth of experience and was very non-party political!

In fact Tony Blair was probably the most 'presidential' of Prime Ministers. I'm glad he is retired!

Harvey wrote: "But the beauty of the Lords is that, in my opinion, it is was NOT like any republic's upper chamber. G & S were poking fun, but mostly the Lords represented a wealth of experience and was very non-..."

Compare the US Senate and the Lords and you have made your point about non-party politics quite well!

Thank you :)

And the House of Lords Reform moves on:
Lords library publishes note on public attitudes on Lords reform on 3 July. House of Commons debates Lords Reform Bill on 10 July and the bill is given a second reading by 462 to 124 votes.

The House of Lords rises....a most impressive sight.

For those of you interested in the House of Lords reform which was tied up in Parliament all summer, the bill has failed. For more information, the link below will take you to an article in The Guardian which puts an unusual twist on the outcome.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...

The non-British observer of the workings of the Parliament often has trouble with the terminology of that body. Below is a glossary of terms for reference and is located at the UK parliament web site.

http://www.parliament.uk/site-informa...

A breakdown of the party representation in the Commons. I was surprised to see that there were 4 Sinn Fein MPs

Affiliation and number of Members
_______________________________
Conservative 3031
Labour 2551
Democratic Unionist 8
SNP 6
Sinn Féin 4
Plaid Cymru 3
SDLP 3
Independent 3
Alliance 1
Green 1

Although this book only covers the time frame of 2010 and the general election, it tells us all we need to know about the political environment in modern England


The Times Guide to the House of Commons

by Times UK(no photo)

Synopsis

Compiled and written by the Times' leading political journalists, this guide offers an in-depth look at UK politics in the run-up to the general election as well as a thorough analysis of the outcome and what implications it holds for Britain beyond 2010. For the first time ever, this large-format authority on UK politics will appear in full color, proving an indispensable and enjoyable point of reference for anyone interested in the state of government in Britain. Definitive and authoritative, this study includes commentary and essays from leading Times political writers such as Matthew Parris, Ben MacIntyre, Daniel Finkelstein, and Ann Treneman, covering subjects which range from the classic 2010 Campaign” to the topical Blair to Brown: Labor's traumatic third term.” Chapters also feature an analysis of election statistics outlining which MPs have the most vulnerable majorities; new MPs; MPs by age and length of service; results by constituency—informed and pithy summaries of each MP with color photographs; series of color maps to detail election results; statistics on how the nation voted in 2005 versus 2010; and manifestos from each party.

When we think of the House of Lords, we visualize the pomp and seriousness of that august body. Guess again......this hilarious book might change your opinion of what goes on there sometimes.

UFO's in the House of Lords

(no image)UFO's in the House of Lords: 1979 by Tim Coates (no photo)

Synopsis:

"The cure for admiring the House of Lords," Walter Bagehot observed, "was to go and look at it." The truth of this dictum is certainly upheld by this Stationery Office edition of their Lordships' 1979 debate on the desirability of holding an inquiry into the occurrence of UFOs. Seldom has so much eloquence been displayed on such a bizarre topic. By letting the peers pontificate verbatim, tying themselves in astronomical knots, this proves to be one of the best of this imaginative series of reproductions of official government documents. Ancient Egypt, Shakespeare, Elizabeth I, Star Trek and the Loch Ness monster are all discussed in this zany debate, proving that there are more laughs a minute in the Houses of Parliament than in any Ben Elton script.

A complete history of the House of Lords authored by one of its own.

A History of the House of Lords

by Lord Longford (no photo)

Synopsis:

Never before has the House of Lords been more threatened. The hereditary principle certainly hangs in the balance, but nobody can know precisely what the future holds. What is beyond doubt, though, is that hundreds of years of tradition are at stake. That history and tradition are here related by a peer. A complete history from the Norman conquest to the present day, the volume charts the waxing and waning over many years of the institution's importance. It begins with a peer's-eye view of developments introduced by the modernizing Blair administration and concludes with an examination of the nature and working of an unelected House of Lords in an age of democracy. Combining history, anecdote, comment and wit, Lord Longford's account offers profound insights.

Do you know who is eligible to sit in the House of Lords. This link will give you that information.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/lor...

This man was definitely ahead of his time.

Simon de Montfort, Creator of the House of Commons

by Georg Rheinhold Pauli (no photo)

Synopsis

Simon de Montfort,was a French-English nobleman. He led the barons' rebellion against King Henry III of England during the Second Barons' War of 1263-4, and subsequently became de facto ruler of England. During his rule, de Montfort called the first directly elected parliament in medieval Europe. For this reason, de Montfort is regarded today as one of the progenitors of modern parliamentary democracy. After a rule of just over a year, de Montfort was killed by forces loyal to the king in the Battle of Evesham.

If you are in the House of Lords, you wear this. Looks a bit uncomfortable.

An in-depth look at the infamous "long Parliament" and the beginnings of a change in how England was ruled.

Proceedings In The Opening Session of the Long Parliament

by Maija Jansson (no photo)

Synopsis:

In the English Parliament during the spring of 1641 two closely related matters came to a head: the trial of Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford, and the completion of articles forming the framework for a treaty with Scotland. Strafford was one of King Charles I's closest associates, and his trial and eventual execution marked the beginning of the long-fought out conflict between the Parliament and the Crown over political control in England. The treaty and the trial reflect the interconnectedness of the three kingdoms -- Ireland, Scotland, and England -- and their relationships to one another under the English monarchy. In the parliamentary debates recorded in this volume, the interplay between public and private interests, military, religious, and mercantile, with and outside the court in England becomes clearer, as does the extent of state-driven policy and imperial design which had evolved during the years when Charles ruled without a Parliament. These records constitute the definitive account of the Strafford trial, as well as detailing other early impeachment proceedings, which would set the precedent for later impeachment trials in Great Britain and America (including the recent impeachment of United States President William Jefferson Clinton). With regards to the treaty, the journals and diaries present a detailed narrative of the step-by-step construction of peace with Scotland.

Parliament in Pictures

by Austin Mitchell(no photo)

Synopsis:

If you have not been to England and seen the Houses of Parliament, this book takes you on a tour of the Commons and Lords and everything in-between. A great coffee table book for the Anglophile.