The Seasonal Reading Challenge discussion

With Cynthia's blessing, I'm starting a thread here that I hope will turn into a way to discuss the Seasonal Reading Challenge itself in a positive, productive way.

My goal here is to start a discussion about what users like about the challenge as well as what they think could be done to make the challenge even better. If we can come to a consensus as a group about some basic issues/ideas, so much the better. Please note, however, this discussion does not necessarily reflect what direction Cynthia will take the group in the future.

That said, I wanted to introduce a few suggestions (or principles) that I have to start the discussion. Please feel free to discuss these principles, suggest changes, or suggest some of your own:

1) Tasks that are specific but broad (e.g., tasks based on specifically subjects, genres, nationality, time period, type of author, etc.) are preferred.

2) Tasks that are specific and narrow (e.g., specific word in a title) are not preferred.

3) Tasks that randomly or systematically allow certain readers to have an advantage in book selection should be used sparingly or not at all.
-Tasks that ask readers to read Juvenile OR Adult Fiction
-Birthdays, initials, etc. that make for an easier match than others
-Tasks where readers who have read less books over their lifetimes will have an easier time to find an unread book than readers who have been around longer

4) Gimmicky tasks that involve/require other things besides reading should be avoided. Examples:

5) Levels of difficulty: Tasks should be rated according to difficulty level. For example, YA books are allowed at lower difficulty but not higher difficulty. Higher difficulty tasks may have page requirements or disallow re-reads.

6) Topics that are vague and open to interpretation should be avoided.

My overall guiding thought when thinking of these principles was that the challenge is there not to challenge people to read things they would never otherwise read; rather, the purpose is to encourage reading in general as well as to stretch (i.e., not obliterate) the reader's boundaries.

Lastly, if you would like to express your thoughts on these topics but would like to remain anonymous, just send me a private message--I'll make sure your feedback gets to the rest of the group.

I participated in the fall challenge and I am excited to start the new challenge for winter. Overall, I love the format but I think it is nice you are asking our opinions.

I like focusing on the reading of books, not necessarily completing outside tasks to accompany the books. I think these tasks have been creative, but I am in it for the books.

The tasks worth more points should require a more difficult level of reading - page number or no rereads.

One thing I REALLY like about the winter challenge is that I was shown new ways to use Goodreads to complete a few tasks (finding people in other countries, the popularity task,etc.). I would love to see more tasks geared towards this in the future - it is great for people who are new to the site.

I like choosing the group reads on the poll.

I like that the task help sections now have clear thread titles instead of just "15.5" - as a newbie for the fall challenge, trying to find the right help section was difficult without all of the tasks right in front of me or just randomly going through the threads.

I like having both broad tasks and more narrow tasks. I love hunting down books for the challenge. That being said; however, the task for an award winner from the past decade I think is VERY broad. I would love to see more tasks focusing on different award winning books.

I like challenging myself to complete tasks, but I try to read books that I want to read anyway and see where I can fit them in. During the final month of the challenge I see what books from my to-read shelf can work and I check those out of the library. I don't have a problem with people starting early, although I won't because I like to stay true to the challenge. I don't view this as a competition against others; I am just trying to compete against myself (and my never-ending to-read shelf!). That being said, it would be nice to have random individuals select tasks. Many people can't finish a challenge but are very active in the group. I was proud of myself for earning over 500 points with a one-month late start and would love an opportunity to perhaps create a fun task. I know I won't be able to finish the winter or spring challenges for various reasons.

Anyway, I was so excited that friends introduced me to this group. It is a lot of fun to be part of, and Cynthia does a great job managing such a large reading community.

Thank you!

Sam, thanks for starting this thread.

From the number of people who participate in these challenges I would say that Cynthia has been choosing a nice variety of tasks for us. And the variety is one of the reasons I participate. For every "Oh, No" task, there have been three or four "Oh, goody" ones. Which seems to be a pretty good ratio to me.

I agree that tasks should be geared to levels of difficulty. I'm not too sure how you would calibrate that, as some of it seems pretty subjective.

I'm not too sure what you mean by tasks that allow certain readers to have an advantage. Could you please give an example of such a task and the type of reader it would help?

One thing I have enjoyed is some of the wide-ranging topics that allow wiggle room. Yes, maybe some restrictions (like Cynthia requiring books be over 100 pages for 10 points and up) should be in place, but it's also good to be able to be a little creative on some of the task. By the same token, sometimes a more narrowly focused task is good for us too.

I enjoy reading the comments about titles when they are posted. Thanks to all the posters who have taken the time to add a word or two about why they like or dislike a certain book. I feel it has helped me get to know many of you, and has helped make my TBR list larger.

While I don't always enjoy every one of the tasks, by the very nature of the challenge, I can usually find some book to satisfy the task and myself.

I appreciate that Cynthia has been open to suggestions from us. It's her challenge, and how she has time to do any of her own reading is beyond me, and may we have many more.

Good idea to start up a discussion Sam! I agree with just about many your thoughts most but especially not the thought on level of difficulty. Case in point, task 25.9 is all about reading younger books. I think that there are quite a bit of YA books that are quite interesting and it would be a shame to limit them from the higher point challenges. I use to not read YA thinking it wasn't for me, but have found some pretty unique titles, also I feel that YA is becoming pretty subjective. I think that Cynthia takes care of the difficulty with the page number having to be over 100. I personally have been making sure that all of my books are over. I have really enjoyed the fall challenge and finding books and look forward to seeing what I can do in the next challenge. Because of this group, I have stepped WAY out of my normal comfort zone to challenge myself for reading and I have been able to read so many great books I didn't even know existed!

Can't wait to see what Cynthia comes up with next!

The Fall Challenge was my first time participating, but I'm eagerly picking out books to read for Winter. I can already say I love the Challenge!

To be honest, I'd be perfectly content if nothing changed at all. But here are some of my thoughts after my first try (based on Sam's suggestions):
1) I actually don't mind when a task is narrow. For me, the point of the challenge is that it should be CHALLENGING. If I wanted to just continue reading books off my TBR list, I could do that on my own. Instead, I have found this group that lets me break out of my reading ruts. True, it's usually easy to wiggle my TBRs into challenge slots anyway, but when I can't I just suck it up and try something new. Prior to these challenges, would I have ever considered reading Christian fiction or a cozy mystery? Definitely not! But in my opinion the point is to give new things a try. And I suppose if I ever really hated a book I just wouldn't finish it. It should be an accomplishment to finish a challenge, and part of that accomplishment should come from reading things that would never have been on your TBR list if not for the Seasonal Challenge.
2) I'm not sure that it's possible to avoid tasks that allow certain readers to have an advantage. I mean, aren't all of us going to have some sort of advantage in at least one of the categories each time?
3) For the fall challenge, I thought some of the "gimmicky" challenges (watch a play/movie/etc.) were the most interesting and fun ones! I think it's always important for us to remember that this isn't mandatory. If you don't want to do the gimmick, skip the task! If you're determined to "win", then push your boundaries and give it a try. My only suggestion on gimmicks is that they not be anything that costs a lot of money out of pocket or that take more time than reading another book (so, cooking or watching a movie=great, knitting a sweater=not so great!).
4) While EVERY task shouldn't be vague, don't you have to admit that you sometimes enjoy the vague ones because it lets you use your TBR books? I agree that tasks should be described clearly so that there isn't a flurry of "I don't get it," questions when the Challenge list goes up. But there's something great about a challenge like the "What are you thankful for" challenge this last time that lets you fit in almost any book you want to read! It's nice to have a good balance of specific and "vague" tasks, and in my short time here it seems that Cynthia has hit a great balance with that!
5) As for # of pages, YA/No YA, re-reads/no re-reads, etc...This is just my opinion, but if there start to be too many rules I think it's going to turn people off from participating. I personally would have never joined last month if there were endless rules about number of pages or types of books that can be used. I think it's perfect as it is: make sure the book is over 100 pages, and then if individual task-maker wants to ask for specific requirements like no YA or no re-reads, that's fine.

I think it's extremely important to remember that we all read at different levels here. I've noticed posts from people who actually ARE young adult readers, or people who are using this group to give themselves challenges to improve their English reading skills, for example. Everyone's definition of "easy to read" is different, and I think it would be sad to see tons of page requirement or reading level restrictions that are going to turn off potential readers.

After all, isn't the ultimate point just to have fun reading new things? I think if we start to get too concerned about whether or not the challenge is "fair" then we'll be heading down a slippery slope.

That's just my two cents! Feel free to ignore every word of it if you want. I'm just a newbie, so I hope I'm not stepping on any toes by posting this.

Also, thank you so much, Cynthia! I'm sure it must be a major job to moderate this page, but you do it so well AND you're even willing to open yourself up to suggestions. As Donna Jo said, may there be many more challenges in the future!

Hey, everyone, keep posting feedback! Make it as specific as possible. As more information starts to roll in, I'll edit the first post to reflect what people are writing.

(Also, since a few people have asked already, I've posted some clarifications for #3)

Thanks for updating # 3, Sam. That cleared up some of my lurid misconceptions. I think I do see what you mean. Thanks.

What I like about the Challenges is that I'm introduced to genres, authors and books that are new to me and that I may not have stumbled onto otherwise.

After participating in 2 Challenges and following posts, thoughts and comments made by everyone on their book choices, my thoughts are forming in the direction of:

- Those that finish a Challenge should be able to choose whatever Task they want, even if they go against what is stated below. They choose the task and the criteria for that task. It's an honor to finish the Challenge and the prize of choosing a task belongs to the Finisher.

- No children's books (picture or chapter). I realize that these are wonderful books to read to our children and to bring back memories of childhood but don't see that they fit into an adult challenge.

- Group reads require some discussion in the Discussion thread. I enjoyed reading people's thoughts and ideas on the books and I hope others enjoyed the discussions as well.

- some sort of page requirement, even for 5 point tasks, of 100 pages or more. If a book is under 100 pages, then perhaps 2 or more need to be read for that task (total pages > 100).

- No gimmicky additions to tasks.

- encourage the use of Goodread lists and authors, within reason. As suggested, the goal is to read for enjoyment so such books as “the worst ever written” shouldn’t be encouraged. Reading people’s posts on how much they didn’t enjoy reading a book that they never would have read if not for the Challenge made me realize that perhaps we should encourage good writing; not bad. Bad authors will continue to be published if stats (either "books bought" or "books lent from a Library") show that these authors are being read.
However, another person’s 1* may be our 5*. Therefore, occasionally choosing another Goodread member’s 1* books may lead to some marvellous discoveries. With the number of members available, choosing a 1* book that sounds interesting to us could lead us to new “favourite” authors.

Having said all that, I will continue to participate in the Challenges and will enjoy them however they are set up by Cynthia.

I don't mind some of the "narrower" tasks or ones that initially seem unfair. Cynthia's been pretty good about taking feedback and changing or updating tasks if needed. (IE the birth month for the upcoming winter challenge, I was a little worried about that one being a December baby, but then she opened the option to all year for Decembers. And During summer she realized some people were having trouble finding a book on their state capitol so she allowed DC books as well).

I think it's fine to have tasks that have a narrower focus, so long as when problems arise we adjust.
I personally like the challenge of finding an interesting, appealing book to fit a given task. That's part of the reason I love the challenges, it make me step out of what I normally read.


Alright, I've stated my opinion ;)

I do have an unrelated suggestion. I think it would be great if we had one or two tasks made up by people chosen at random (they don't have to necessarily be worth 25 points like the ones made up by those who complete the challenges). I think it's great that people are able to complete the challenges, but I know for me (and I'm sure many others) it's jut not a possibility. It would be fun to be able to have a chance at making up a task.

I like keeping it simple and fresh. I definitely don't want a lot of restrictive rules. We're participating together -- not competing against each other. The books one person reads to complete the tasks make no difference to anyone else.

I don't see any reason to exclude children or children's books from the challenges. I applaud mothers and others who fit reading with children into this activity.

I don’t see any reason to exclude any types of books. Leave people the freedom to read what they want if it fits the task criteria.

I like Natalie's suggestion of more tasks by people who don't complete the challenge. There are seven open slots for 20 point tasks. The tracking burden could be spread around if a volunteer did the initial tracking and then the winner did the tracking for the next challenge. Some possibilities:

- Most Helpful Recommendations – Track in a separate topic where participants would note when they read a book that someone recommended.

- Longest Book

- Most Books by GoodReads Authors

I was lucky in my first challenge to get to write the fall mid-point task and a task for the winter challenge. It would have helped me to have a place to get feed-back on my task ideas before the official posting.

Great idea for a thread!

Having completed the Summer and Fall challenges, I just want to add my 2 cents...

I have absolutely no problems with having some very narrow challenges- as long as they're balanced out with some vague/ broader ones. So far, Cynthia seems to have struck a perfect balance. I think that half the fun is trying to slot books into different places, and, hey, if you really don't like one or more challenges, nothing is stopping you from just skipping it altogether. I also really like that the challenges make you push your reading boundaries. In many cases, I've seen on the boards that people have no interest in completing a certain task, but then they give it a go and actually discover something new that they loved. So I'm totally for having a mix of narrow and broad tasks.

I'm not too crazy about the gimmicky tasks, but again, one or two every challenge is fine with me, as long as it relates somehow to the task (for example: I liked the task where we had to choose a book that had been turned into a movie, and then watch the movie and compare the two, because the two were related to each other. On the other hand, as someone mentioned above, reading a book about knitting and then knitting a sweater wouldn't interest me- even though I *do* knit- because the actual knitting has nothing to do with reading). So again, gimmicks are fine, as long as they are related to the task, don't take up TOO much time, and that there aren't too many in a challenge.

I think that the tasks are already pretty well controlled in terms of difficulty. Again, those that choose tasks could set difficulty limits themselves- I have no problems with that. Cynthia has already stated that books worth more than 5 points should be over 100 pages- I think this is fine. I would just hate to see, for example, if the limit for 15 point books becomes 250 pages, and someone finds a book they want to read for that task which turns out to be 248 pages, and then not have it count. So I think limits imposed on a task by task basis would be ok, but not category wide.

Its also important to note, as mentioned above, that difficulty levels vary by individual. I know some people that do this challenge and that also have their teen children participate. If we leveled off the difficulty, we'd be excluding people, rather than including them. And when it comes to kids and teens, aren't we trying to ENCOURAGE them to read?

I also like Natalie's suggestion that every challenge, Cynthia should pick out of a hat (or whatever) one or two people to create challenges, even if they haven't completed the whole thing. I know I would personally love to have the opportunity, and there's no way that I'd be able to read 50+ books in 3 months. Also another way of getting more people involved and encourage more people to read.

Just my 2 cents. :)

I've competed in 2 challenges thus far and sincerely doubt my chances of completing the fall in time. There's too much to do prepping for holiday parties which cuts into reading time.

I like the gimmicks when it's watch a show. Most of them can easily be fulfilled by watching cable *OR* even free websites such as hulu.com.

I'm not much of a fan of the countries by your initials. Mainly b/c mine are a little limiting and the choices typically are to narrow that the book selection I find isn't that interesting. So I usually never finish this task.

I like encouraging to read off other people's 'read', 'tbr', etc shelves. I like the read from a specific genre.

I always have a difficulty in finding books which the main character matches x name. It's fun to TRY but it's a little frustrating if you don't know how to search.

But honestly, overall I love the challenge.

AND - Cynthia already has a requirement for all books to be 100+ pages.

I like specific broad and specific narrow challeges both. I also like what you call "gimmicks" - which can just as easily be seen as tying reading to real life. I think the way difficulty is dealt with now is generally fine. I also agree with whoever said people who win should be allowed to choose anything they want and not have to follow any specific rules.

While I occasionally get frustrated by tasks that "discriminate" against me (like anyone involving initials and countries), I recognize that there are other tasks that are easier for me than other people. I just wish we did not have the same method for choose a book (like the initials and countries) two challeges in a row.

I think the way the winter challenge is presented - with plenty of links and examples, is great!

Thanks Cynthia for setting up a great challenge!

I want to start by saying that I love these challenges. I was an avid reader as a kid/teen and pretty much stopped completely in college. The summer challenge is what got me back into it so for that I am a complete and loyal Cynthia Challange contestant.

Personally, I'm pretty neutral when it comes to the gimmicks. I won't do a challenge that requires a review or a written anything. My reviews suck so I wouldn't want to torture anybody. I loved the movie/book comparison tasks or pretty much any task that gets people into heated discussions.

I don't like to do any of the history/biography based tasks. I'm a fiction/novel type girl BUT I also don't have any problem not finishing challenges (as you can see by my scores) so skipping challenges isn't a problem for me but I can see how it would be if I were dead set on finishing.

I LOVE Natalie's idea about two or three people randomly getting to design a challenge. Maybe anybody who makes it past 100 points in the previous challenge gets their name in the pot or anybody that has actively participated for two challenges in a row. Interesting idea.

Just a personal preference here, but I'd like to see people at least say how many stars they gave a book when they post it for points. Wow, so and so got 25 points for reading that book...did they like it? Should I read it for that task? And that thread fills up so quickly that it may be 1 or 2 pages gone when you ask if they liked it and another 1 or 2 pages gone by the time they reply.

Which brings up the fact that I really like the separate threads for help on the different tasks. I was beside myself excited when I found out Guy Gavrial Kay was a canadian author. And I found that out by someone who was simply nice enough to do a little research on their time and post a list so I didn't have to. I think this group is so awesome because people are just really considerate.

I'm still unclear as to how a challenge might be unfair for a certain group. Maybe if your name starts with a 'z' or you live in Antartica but otherwise Cynthia is really good at making it work for people. i.e. us December birthdays.

I think if its not broken don't fix it. If you give people time to examine the system they WILL find fault with it. I think this system works better as a dictatorship than a democracy. Its easier for me to be able to ask Cynthia (or a group of people she designates if this ever gets to be too much trouble for her) my questions than have to wait for a committee of people to decide if its 'fair' for me to be able to read a certain book for a certain task. If Cynthia says the only rule is over 100 pages than thats good for me. But I really think the point of the challenge is to encourage people to read and putting in too much rules and regulations is just stiffling to the creativity involved in fitting books into the challenges. Or the creativity involved in designing challenges.

I received a piece of anonymous feedback, which raised two issues that I'll paraphrase below:

1) Competition or Not?: It appears that some people pick books for the sole purpose of being able to finish the challenge quickly rather than books they might *want* to read.

2) Overeager Readers: It seems odd that some users begin finishing challenges less than a couple hours after a new challenge begins.

This person essentially posed the question of whether or not the Challenge is a competition...which I think is a good point to discuss here.

So, is the Challenge a competition or not? Feel free to sound off on this topic as well as its many implications.

I think labelling the challenge as a competition is a bad idea. If people want to treat it that way in their own heads, then thats their own decision, but starting to act like that on the boards is just going to wreck the friendly environment I feel like we have going.

To clarify what people mean by "unfair" challenges I will give an example - my initials are AY. This means the ONLY country I could read about for the international challenge this fall was Yemen, which given my access to a very good US library gave me about 4 options. People with the initials AM or BG would have 100s of options... BUT as I said, I am OK with this because I know there are other challenges that are easier for me than other people (like the math challenge was very good for me).

Sam wrote: "So, is the Challenge a competition or not? "

Hi Sam.

Good question. I think this answer will definitely vary from person to person. Some people are just competitive by nature and they are on a quest to win. Others approach the challenge differently and are happy about broadening their reading horizons, not whether or not they finish.

I read some comments in another thread from people who have already finished the fall challenge and, for some, it was definitely a mission and definitely not enjoyable. BUT, that was their choice. I have wondered what was the point of doing all that un-ejoyable reading?

The fall 2009 challenge was my first one. For me, I did (naively??) start out wanting to finish...not fastest or first, just finish. But, holy cracker, talk about biting off more than one can chew! LOL! At this stage I am a bit burned out by the fall challenge because I was so committed to reading, reading, reading. I have actually decided to take a pause now, focus on getting my winter challenge books lined up and then be fresh for December. Going into the next challenge I am not going to be as distracted by either finishing or by the leader board.

I think labelling the challenge a competition would be a mistake. In my mind, less people would participate in a competition.

Challenge is defined as: a call or summons to engage in any contest, as of skill, strength, etc.

Competition means: a)the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.; b)a contest for some prize, honour, or advantage.

So although both are contests, to me, challenge allows room for individual, independent outcomes whereas competition necessitates comparison and rankings. That is stressful, I think. While there is a 'prize' for finishing - the chance to write a task for the next challenge - it would be nice if the reading itself was 'prized' somehow and the pacesetters not so, well, pacesetting. LOL!

It is important to maintain the camaraderie and fellowship that is enjoyed within this group. Anything to alter that aspect would be quite detrimental to the whole.

Wow! That was a long and over-thought response to your question. Helpful? I hope so!

:)

Jennifer wrote: "So although both are contests, to me, challenge allows room for individual, independent outcomes whereas competition necessitates comparison and rankings."

For argument's sake, wouldn't the leaderboard qualify as "comparison and rankings"?



I think it may matter to the individual whether one views this as a challenge or a competition, like Jennifer suggested. And while - as others have also suggested - some people read "at different levels", it's pretty evident who is reading books just to fulfill points with no desire to actually absorb or enjoy what they are reading.

While Cynthia allows contestants to read no more than 50% of a book prior to the beginning the challenge, I have noticed as well that within a matter of a couple of hours people are posting a book or more.

The "gimmicks" might be fine in these tasks if they are related to reading. The discussion that occurred in the thread for suggestions for the Winter challenge regarding volunteering is a good example. It turned out that most people were suggesting volunteering at Project Gutenberg - that's reading-related, so why couldn't the challenge just included "volunteer at Project Gutenberg" instead of everyone getting offended that other people don't have the same amount of time or access to volunteering at other organizations? I might also point out that the volunteering issue falls into the other category Sam brought up about having an unfair advantage. If some people are already volunteering at Project Gutenberg prior to the challenge, and are allowed to continue using that as their volunteering experience, they have an advantage over someone else who would have to join either Project Gutenberg for the first time, or volunteering somewhere else. Point is, one person wouldn't have to give it much thought while another person would. Perhaps it could be stated that it has to be a different form of volunteerism than one someone might already be participating in.

Also, seems a lot of people here choose to spend their time reading, as opposed to watching TV shows, movies, playing or watching sports, etc. It seems logical to have a desire to keep the extracurricular aspects of the occasional "gimmick" task at least related to reading. Just like everyone reads at a different level, not everyone has access to the same sorts of things as other readers. For example, like in the Winter Challenge, a college student living in a dorm might not be able to do the cooking task as that student may not have access to an oven.

I also don't necessarily agree with the argument, "Well, you don't have to do every task!" There are people here, myself included, who would like to get as close to finished with the challenge as possible, whether I win or not. I've won one challenge and I keep plugging away at these because a) I enjoy them for the most part, and b) I would like to finish. It doesn't matter to me if it's called a "competition" or a "challenge" - my goal is the same, but I also choose books that I might not normally read or that actually "challenge" me in a personal way, so I often don't go for the "easiest reads". Which, I guess, is why I've only won one challenge, lol.

Not a competition -- as many winners as people who finish the challenge.

It doesn't bother me in the least that some people might choose quick reads or start early.

I cannot begin to imagine trying to level the playing field in an attempt to come up with a fair way to change this to a competition. The number of things that would need to be considered and the resulting number of rules to be administered is beyond mind-boggling.

I think for half these people this is a competition and for the other half a challenge. I love setting up and picking out my books for the next challenge. I usually, realistically, get about 5-10 read even though I plan out however many slots are available. I compete with myself. I always try to get a better score than the challenge before.

Manday - I see your point about the fairness. Yemen probably doesn't offer much. :)

Maybe it would be fairer to have the challenges voted on? Seems to me most of the confusing/unfair challenges are made by the challenge completers and in that case they deserve to make crazy challenges. Its really a catch-22.

My two cents -

1 - I consider it a challenge, not a competition. If someone else thinks of it as a competition, so be it.

2 - Levelling the playing field by imposing restrictions on what can and can not be used is too exclusive. We have no idea the ages/reading levels of all the participants in these challenges and quite honestly, what's the fun in reading if you can't read what you want.

3 - I like the idea of having random participants chose tasks for the challenge

4 - "Gimmicky" tasks are ok, as long as it's in moderation. I was a little surprised at how many there were for the Winter challenge, but that's ok - if I want to do it, I will. If not, I'll move on.

5 - If you want to start reading early, go ahead.

6 - Too many rules and it's not fun any more.

Two things that bothered me about this past challenge -

1 - I was a little ticked off with the amount of bickering going on between some of the participants and the "task-makers" about what people thought should and should not be acceptable. In my opinion, they earned the honour to pick the task and what they deem acceptable is their choice. Once they put their foot down, that should be it, no questions asked.

2 - If someone chooses to create a task that is too vague or confusing, they are responsible for clarifying and making decisions. It should be their responsiblity to check their help topics in a timely manner - the rest of us should not be responsible for contacting them outside this board.

I consider this a challenge and not a competition. It is my own personal challenge to finish the entire challenge. I know that a lot of people do not share this viewpoint at all and are just doing the challenge to see how many points they can get, but for me it is all about finishing it.
-I think the 100 pages or more is a great rule.
-I like that the Most Improved and the Rookie of the Season gets to choose tasks.
-I think that random picks for some of the 5, 10, and 15 point challenges is an excellent idea. So if there are 10 tasks in each one, maybe have 3 people choosen randomly for each one to pick a task.
-I too think it is unfair when people bicker about someone elses task. I finished one before and as soon as my task was posted, I had a lot of compliants about my choosen task. I felt since I actually finished, that it was my right to pick whatever I wanted as a challenge. As a result, I changed my task to accomodate other people, but I was a bit upset. I also felt a bit taken back when that many people started to complain and I felt like I was being attacked.
-I too agree the person should be around to answer questions about a task. I don't think we should have to hunt them down and send a personal message to ask if a book is okay or to ask for clarification. I liked how pjreads gave someone the opportunity to help her out because she was not going to be around to make decisions.
-I personally do not care for the 'gimmicky' tasks. I feel that they are okay for 20, 25, or 30 point tasks, but for 15 point tasks I think that only one or two are feasible.
-I do not pick books that are easier to finish, rather I pick books that I find both interesting and really want to read. More than half of my books this time around were 300 pages or more, even for 5 point tasks. I also enjoy many types of reading material be it chick-lit, YA, non-fiction, mysteries, drama and so much more!! I have been pleasantly surprised by a book that I choose for a task that I would never have read, so yes, these challenges do expand your reading horizens!
-I like there to be some flexibilty when picking books and I do think it is unfair to limit it to certain genres, unless the task is specific to genres.
-I also know that I may be stepping on toes here, but sometimes (and this has also been emailed to me by other participants) individuals finish so fast that I wonder how much they are actually comprehending from a book they just read and the amount of books read in one day seems unrealistic. I have checked certain profiles and have found that individuals have not actually posted any of the books they have read in the challenge in their 'read' shelves and that makes me wonder...
-I think that some of the restricted tasks should be given more flexibility if a lot of readers are having a difficult time finding a book. I think that Manday is a perfect example of just that with the countries task.
-Again I agree with a lot who have expressed that too many rules ruin it and make others turn away, but on that same note, too many tasks that are too limiting also can turn a person away from participating. I think since we know that so many people are going to finish this time around (which means A LOT of reading), I would have like to seen more flexibility in the 5, 10, and 15 point tasks...just my two cents ;)

Oh and thanks for starting this thread Sam!!

I view this as a challenge and not a competition. But you know what? If others feel this is more of a competition then that's fine with me. To each his/her own.

The way I look at it, those that read so fast that they don't really absorb the words, or don't fully comprehend the meaning- that's their own problem and I'm not going to waste my time thinking about it.

Same with those people who some of us are suspecting of not actually having read the books- they're hurting nobody but themselves, and really, its their own business. There's really no way of verifying who has read what and at what pace, so why stress out about it? Also, some people really just are fast readers.

I totally agree that whoever finishes should get to choose whatever task they want, no matter the difficulty or ambiguity. By finishing the task, you EARN that right- and NOBODY should give you grief about what you choose.

pjreads wrote: "I cannot begin to imagine trying to level the playing field in an attempt to come up with a fair way to change this to a competition."

I don't think changing to a competition is the point here. Sam was just asking for other's opinions on how they view the challenge as it is. Nothing is going to be changed unless Cynthia finds any diamonds in the rough here.



Jennifer wrote: "Once they put their foot down, that should be it, no questions asked."

I'm all for that, but I maintain that tasks should be free of ambiguity. If it is unclear and questions are asked, it should be expected for the task master to be able to clarify. If it remains unclear, then there will probably be an issue since everyone wants to be sure to get it right without reading something incorrect and having to repeat a task.

I don't like the democracy idea, or anything that takes power out of Cynthia's hands and into the group in general. I honestly think its having a dictator on this board that keeps it so friendly and civil.

No, this does not say anything about my overall political views. LOL.

Manday wrote: "I don't like the democracy idea, or anything that takes power out of Cynthia's hands and into the group in general. I honestly think its having a dictator on this board that keeps it so friendly an..."

But we all appreciate Cynthia asking for our suggestions the month before posting a new challenge. We must appreciate some form of democracy in this group or else we wouldn't want her to give us that much.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "takes the power of Cynthia's hands"... I didn't see anyone suggesting otherwise necessarily. These are just suggestions for what people find encouraging and/or discouraging based on the individual experiences.

Interesting range of perspectives!
First of all, Cynthia is wonderful for sticking with this...I'm sure she has plenty of offline things to do as well. Thanks Cynthia!

Secondly, to address Sam's second post (#15), the one thing that makes the challenge continue to be fun and challenging is balance - balance between the type of tasks and number of books and the number of pages and the genres to be covered. Some tasks that are non-specific and coould cover any genre, others that require the reader to choose a book that otherwise he wouldn't read. If this structure is completely missing, then why not do the 150 books in a year, or some other challenge that lets you read only the books you would ordinarily pick?
Having said that, Sam's specific example of people finishing early, it is only a problem when it goes overboard. Say we had 20 winners, and the first 10 read 90% YA, or cozy mysteries, or what ever could be read rapidly, THEN those 10 people wrote challenges involving YA or cozy mysteries or whatever their favorite was - then it would start to be a problem, but shouldn't Cynthia have the perogative to manage that?

I was one of the Summer finishers, finishing about a week before the challenge ended. When I submitted my task to Cynthia, I didn't just submit one task, I gave her 3 choices that were really different. She did not pick my absolute favorite of the 3, but she did pick the one that fit the best in the overall Fall Challenge (in retrospect) providing balance to the list of books...perhaps that would address some the issues???

As an aside, the only tasks that really bug me, are the ones that almost require you to read the book before you know whether or not it will fit the taks. I know that people have been great to post suggestions for titles, and, again, balance, two or three tasks like that per challenge are plenty.

I also think the idea of randomly choosing a couple of people submit a challenge is a good idea... that should defuse some of the competitive piece of this.

El wrote: "For argument's sake, wouldn't the leaderboard qualify as "comparison and rankings"?

Hi El!

Oh, absolutely. I guess I wasn't good about completing my thought on that point!! Sorry.

With a competition the leader board becomes more about the goal of being "on it" and, for some, climbing the ranks rather than a curiosity about how people are doing. With the challenge, I think, it's just more about cheering people on or an interest on people's progress.

For some reason, in my mind, although the leader board is involved they would play two very different roles in a competition versus a challenge. Does this make sense, or is it as clear as mud??

Like a few others have already stated, it doesn't really matter what it is called, people are going to apply their own interpretations. My response was just based on Sam's question in post # 15.

I love the challenge and breaking out of my comfort zone with different reads I may not have otherwise selected.

:)

I am new to this challenge, and I love it. I'm having a great time finding books to fit both the broad and specific tasks. I'm a fan of balancing both. If something does not interest me, I'll just skip it. I've also experienced completing a task I thought I wouldn't like, but ended up enjoying. I guess that's why it is called a challenge. It is the reader's choice to take it or leave it. I feel the point of this group is to expand our horizons and introduce us to new ideas, authors, etc...

I like the "gimmicks" that go with some of our tasks. It's never a bad thing to step out of our routines. I can't see how watching a movie or drinking a beer would be an added burden. Instead, I find them a way to connect more fully with my reading, which is the basis for true learning our whole lives. The "gimmicks" seem more like a reward to me.

I am happy with the current 100+ page policy. Adding bureaucracy and restrictions ALWAYS kills vitality, which would discourage readers.

I do feel more people should be given a chance to choose a task. My suggestion was chosen for a winter task. I was surprised and delighted. I feel including more members' tasks would encourage motivation and imagination throughout the group. It worked for me. I like the earlier idea, presented by Natalie, of drawing names out of a hat for new task makers.

Thanks Cynthia for your dedication.

It's ridiculously early fr me, so I apologize in advance if any of the thoughts below are unclear or muddled.

Reading all of the above comments at one go, I am struck but the contrast between the gratitude for Cynthia's flexibility in modifying tasks (The State Capitals and Popular 2009 Books were both given as examples) and the belief that Winners should be able to choose their tasks & their decisions should be adhered to "no-matter-what" (this is probably an exaggeration of what has been said by others above). Absolutely, the winners should be able to choose a task & make the judgment calls for what does and does not fulfill their task, but I think there also should be the understanding that their tasks may need to be redefined.

Is there a better way for Winner's tasks to be clarified/refined without an explosion of posts that cumulatively feel like an attack? I suspect Cynthia is on the board often enough that she is able to clarify/modify tasks after two or three requests are made, before there is a 50+ post discussion by members. Maybe all the winners could preview & test each others tasks? (This might also help balance out the 25/30 pointers so they don't all require YA reads or biographies or all require 3 books).

As for other things to consider...I mostly enjoy the additional, non-reading tasks; living in NYC might give me the advantage of more options to fulfill these. I usually skip the tasks that require reading newly released books (limited budget) -- I get the bulk of my reading material from the library (long wait lists for new releases) and from used book stores (if they are under $5, which the hottest books are not).

The one major change I would like is a two-week planning period/break, by making each challenge period a little shorter: Dec.15-Feb.28th, March 15-May 31, June 15-Aug. 31, Sep. 15-Nov. 30.
(This is because, darn it, y'all are too prolific with the postings & I can't keep up with all the Winter Task help sections AND read my fall challenge books!)

Thank you Cynthia & fellow participants for making these challenge so enjoyable!

I like the challenge as it is!

I believe that having both narrow and broad tasks are good. There are a lot of tasks in the challenges especially as more and more people are completing them so choosing a task each. As there are so many tasks it's good to have as much variety as possible.

I actually like the tasks where you have to read a book with a specific word in the title! The tasks where the book has to have something specific in it such as jobs or names or subject matter can be harder to find as it's not always obvious if they are included! But once again the variety is good and having the help topics on the discussion board is a great way of getting round the problem of finding books.

As for giving some participants advantages I don't think it causes too much of a problem. I'm sure with the amount of tasks there are it's going to even out at some point! I hear what people are saying about having initials where there may not be as many countries but on the other hand they may have a job as a policeman wtih lots of detective books they could read while another person may be a careers adviser with not many books involving them!

Tasks with 'gimmicky' additions to them are more likely to be avoided by me but that is no reason to not have them. Some people love them! I would agree with others that they should only consume the amount of time it takes to read a book as, for instance, making time to have a baby and calling it a character from your favourite book is a bit too much in the area of commitment!

Difficulty is completely dependent on who is doing the challenge. I will happily sit down with a 600 page adult book and read it (in theory, I'd prob not so happily read it if it was an essay of Kant's or Freud's as I wouldn't understand it so much!) whereas if you are 13 years old and doing the challenge you might want to use all teenager/young adult books. I think we should all be able to read books which are appropriate to our level of reading. So if a 6 yr old is doing the challenge they read books written for 6 yr olds and if a 25 yr old is doing it they read books written for adults. Having said that having the odd specific task to read, say a book for teenagers is fine as variety is the spice of life!

Topics which are vague and open to interpretation are great because it means you are more likely to get that one book in which you bought for the very first challenge you did 4 seasons ago and didn't have time and haven't been able to fit in to any challenges since!

As you can probably tell I'm really laid back about this challenge! I think whatever comes up on the challenge goes. There are tasks that I look at and know that I'm not going to do them (namely american president biographies!) but that's fine with me.

What sometimes daunts me is when I look at the leader board just 3 weeks into the challenge and see that a couple of people have already clocked up 400 points! I have a very competitive streak in me so I use this challenge to teach me patience! In all seriousness I love this challenge because I have more fun choosing what I am giong to read next and for it to last the entire three months rather than just a month and a half. I realise that some people like to complete the Challenge and that's absolutely fine but if that is the case then I think that they should have to stretch themselves and like the difficult tasks they can't find books so easily for or lump them! After all if completing the challenge is easy to do then it's NOT a challenge!!

Cynthia keep up the fantastic work, you're a star and have transformed my reading!!

wow, what a cool discussion!

This is my first challenge and I only joined a month or so ago, but no one has ever accused me of not having an opinion! :) So here are my thoughts:

I think the more "rules" there are the more this starts to look like a competition than a challenge. The fact that there are different levels of points and 'winners' get to choose tasks for the next time around contributes to the competitiveness, I think. You could eliminate ALL the rules and the points, and let tasks just be tasks, and let everyone set their own goals for how many books they want to read and how many tasks they want to finish. Some people may choose to read shorter or easier books, but the only way that would bother me was if it seemed they were getting an unfair advantage because of it. If there are no points or winners, there is no advantage, and it really becomes a more personal challenge.

But, since some of us like to be a little competitive, here's another idea: tasks are just tasks, and points vary based on page count of your book. Books under 100 pgs are 5pts, 100-300 pgs are 10pts, you get the idea. This way, if a task required reading two books for example, you could choose two children's books for 10pts, or two 800-pg epics for, say, 40pts. "Gimmicks" like cooking a recipe or volunteering somewhere could be optional and earn you bonus points. This way your score depends not on how many tasks you complete, but on how you decide to spend your time. Top scorers might get the opportunity to choose tasks, or those who complete all the tasks regardless of points scored, or whatever.

Having said all that, I am really enjoying this (my first!) challenge, and I have read (and enjoyed) several books I probably would not have looked at without this to spur me on. I really like the variety of options, and I think it's a great balance of looking for specifics and more general ideas. If not for the specifics I would not stretch very far! My goal is to broaden my tastes, not necessarily to increase volume. Yet, the sheer number of tasks is a little daunting... on average I normally read 3-4 books a month; in the past month I've read 16. I can't sustain that pace and keep up with the rest of my life, and I know many others find the idea of completing a challenge next-to impossible; so I REALLY like the idea of allowing a semi-random method for who gets to pick tasks next time.

I hope I don't sound like I am complaining; I am totally fine with the way things are... it's Cynthia's game right now, she is doing a FANTASTIC job keeping this fun, fair, and challenging, and I am totally happy to play by her rules. Thanks Cynthia, and thanks to everyone who has been participating, answering questions, and of course recommending great books!

This is my 4th challenge I believe. My first challenge or two I set out to finish..and then I realized what a fool I was to think I could find enough time to do so :) Do all you people who finish have extra hours in your days or something ;) I'd like to find out!

Anyways, I really think Cynthia does a great job in mixing up the tasks. I like some of the tasks to be specific and I like some of them to be vague. I think it's been done really well that when a problem arises..a modification is made if necessary and I think Cynthia is very gracious in what she allows for tasks. I also like a few "filler" tasks where it's easy to stick in a tbr book that doesn't fit anywhere else. I agree with the suggestion that those who do win should maybe provide 2 or 3 options to Cynthia so she can figure out which tasks make the best mix so that, like Liz said, there aren't a bunch of tasks that make us read 3 books or huge biographies or something..and having winners preview the task is a good idea to make sure they are clear before the general masses have at them.

Love the challenges! I think Cynthia does a fantastic job managing everything and getting back to everyone!

Great discussion!....with super thoughts and ideas!

I do find Melissa's idea of general tasks with points being attached to # of pages in the book(s) for that task. That's an interesting concept. It takes into account the extra time a longer book takes to read and may encourage people to look more closely at the more weightier books. Extra points for doing the additional requirements (gimmicks) is thoughtful, too.

Having a restricted amount of time to complete the Challenge is an important part of the process, I think, when talking in terms of everyone having a fair playing field. If we don't have a start and a stop time, how is this Challenge any different than any yearly "I will read XX books this year" personal challenge found on many other boards? As was stated above, it's a bit daunting to find people with hundreds of points just a week into the Challenge. I think Cynthia is being very generous by allowing us to read up to 1/2 of a book before the Challenge actually begins. So, for me, books read for a Challenge before the Challenge begins shouldn't be allowed for points towards that Challenge.

Reading all of the posts here I find that we are pretty much all in agreement. We love the Challenges, enjoy the hunt for that perfect book to fulfill the task, love finding new genres and authors and enjoy a slight competitive edge without being ultra-competitive. We want to have fun. We also don't want to overwhelm Cynthia and want her to enjoy her creation. This is a great discussion for letting that out into the open and letting Cynthia know we stand behind her.

Also, I thank everyone who adds a few sentences of comment and thought about the book they've just read when posting a completed task. These comments have put a lot of really good books onto my TBR list and it makes for interesting reading when browsing the thread. Thanks!

This is my 4th challenge as well... here are my thoughts on the initial thoughts...

(1) I enjoy both the specific and broad questions as well as the narrow and broad questions.

(2) I don't mind the tasks that give some people an advantage except for the initial ones. I have always hated the initial K... (even in those stupid games were you have to come up with a fruit or animal or car or whatever with the same letters... There are always a lot of K people with few options). Have the ending of L was hard too...

(3) I like books that require you to do other stuff. I think it is fun!

(4) I disagree 100% with the whole YA books being disallowed on higher tasks. A lot of the higher point tasks require more then one book to be read for them. Some people (me) like to read YA books. That is our preferred genre. I don't read YA books because I think that they are easier or that I can finish the challenge, I read them because that is what I enjoy. If the YA books are disallowed, I will stop participating in these challenges. I read non-YA books for this challenge, because it is good to expand your horizons, but I think that YA should be allowed in those horizons.

(5) I also like the idea of a couple peoples names being choosen out of a hat to select a challenge. That sounds like fun.

As Kathryn mentioned above, I disagree with the idea that YA books should be disallowed on higher tasks. I actually really love the challenge "as is". I like the flexibility and diversity of tasks and books that one is able to read for each task. I loved Nicole Oh's task, for example, which allowed me to read "A Light In The Attic" (which is a J or YA book) and then to read "Night Watch" which is an adult book. And I don't mind that I might read a 400 page book and only get 5 points but then read a junior reader of 200 pages and get 25 points. It doesn't bother me one bit!

For me this is a challenge, not a competition. This time around I decided that I wanted to finish all of the tasks (still working on that one!); next time, I probably won't get that far. For me, it doesn't matter what place I come in so how others get to wherever they get to in the challenge, doesn't matter so much to me (as long as they are enjoying themselves!). How I get there is really up to me (since there is so much personal choice in this challenge - which is one of the things that I love about it!) and I have really enjoyed the range of work that I've read this time around (from Donde Viveron Los Monstruous for the Berenstein Bears challenge to The Absolutely True Diary of a Part Time Indian for the Native American challenge to The Diary of Frida Kahlo for the creative Arts challenge to a Buffy The Vampire Slayer graphic novel for the homework assignment to The Road for my two word title in the 1,2,3 challenge....I could go on and on).

I love trying to find books to fit each task - some are harder than others and that is fine. Sometime I read some duds, but not because I need to find something to fit a challenge, but simply because something that I thought sounded great, turned out to be "not for me". I think that the less restrictions, the better. I think page restrictions are the toughest for me; for instance, biography is one of my least favorite genres (as is "politics") so it was extremely hard to find a 500+ page biography about a democratically elected figure who was assassinated while in office. In the end, I found one and I'm finding it interesting (though long!), so I'm not complaining, but I think this task is an example of page numbers making a task seem challenging but in a less fun/enjoyable way. (I want to make sure that the "task-master" on this one, BJ Rose, knows that I respect her choice of task, appreciate that she was flexible with the page numbers by allowing folks to read 2 books that add up to 500 pages, and am enjoying learning about the leader I chose!)

In general I think anything that encourages flexibility is helpful (for example how PJ Reads in the winter challenge is allowing a little wiggle room with the Dewey Decimal System). I have some of the most easy initials to work with (E & B) so the name/initials based challenges have worked well for me, but I think if we could be flexible for those with initials that limit their choice(s) to "one country" that would be great (maybe allow up to a certain number of countries near your initials).

Anyway, thanks to everyone for sharing their input and to Sam for starting this discussion. It's been interesting to hear everyone's thoughts! And of course many thanks to Cynthia and all of those who created tasks and answered numerous questions about them! MUCH APPRECIATED!

Mandy said: "To clarify what people mean by "unfair" challenges I will give an example - my initials are AY. This means the ONLY country I could read about for the international challenge this fall was Yemen,"

I agree with Mandy! I wouldn't call it "unfair" but I think that the method of choosing the countries should be different from challenge to challenge. Both the Fall and Winter challenge has you use your initials to choose the countries. Once would have been fine. The second international challenge should have used different criteria (maybe your initials + 1? So Mandy would have AY the first challenge, and BZ the second one.) So if there is an international task in the Spring challenge, please, use a different method of choosing countries.

Didn't Cynthia at one point agree that if your initial produced one country then you could use your middle initial? You MIGHT want to ask Cynthia that in the Winter Challenge Questions.

She might grant such wiggle room when there's a limited amount of books on your one country.

And believe you me, I sometimes get frustrated with the country initials and I have a little more choices.

Sam, thanks for opening this discussion thread. It's been really interesting to see how eveyone has chimed in.

1) I'd like to see everyone adding a little review blurb or star rating when they post their book points. I REALLY like to see what folks think about what they've read. It helps me make better informed reading decisons.

2) I LOVE the idea of a couple of non-finishers getting to select a task each quarter. I doubt I'll ever finish a challenge, but I'm a avid group member and would like to have a chance to think up a task too.

3) Don't exclude YA books. Once in awhile I get annoyed when it seems like someone is reading easy juvenile fiction books for large point tasks. But then I try to go to my happy place and remind myself that this challenge is for me to find new books, and have a forum to discuss the books I've read -- not to judge the choices of others. For me it's often a fine balance between the competition with myself, and seeing the other group member's progress that spurs me on to new books. 'The Book Thief' is one of the best books I've read this year, and it's YA.

Plus we do want to encourage readers of all ages in this group. If we limited the type of books allowed I think we'd be discouraging young readers and I want to see all sorts of folks reading!

4) I like the idea of giving more point for larger books. I read two books that were 1,400 pages each this challenge. I think they earned 25 points total. With 2,800 pages of reading I could have read about 15 books and been much higher in the point total if I'd chosen to spread the reading over that many book. I did choose to read shorter books last challenge (my first challenge) and vowed that this challenge my reading selections wouldn't be driven solely by possible point totals.

If we could find a simple way to factor in page totals for points awarded that would be outstanding in my opinion. But -- I think Cynthia is doing a fantastic job and wouldn't want to make her heroic task any more time consuming.

Thanks for all your hard work Cynthia!

I have a couple thoughts based on different things people have said:

I'm not about to get into another discussion (or argument) about YA books, but would just like to point out that there is a group (The Wild Things) aimed at the discussion of YA novels, and they also have a challenge inspired by Cynthia's Seasonal Challenges. The only requirement (that I'm aware of) is that the books used for the tasks are YA only. Seems like a popular group and I'm sure they also have pretty good discussions.


As far as having contestants here post reviews in their updates, I'd much prefer if people would use the "add book/author" option above the comment box and take the small amount of time it takes to include a link for the book they are posting, and also include the author. This way if I'm interested in seeing the person's review (and that of anyone else who might have read the same book) I can see it directly on the page. If everyone posts a review on the Completed Tasks thread, it could get more convoluted and difficult to read. Personally I spend a good amount of time writing reviews on the books I read and wouldn't want to take the time it takes to summarize it for the benefit of those here.


I also like the idea of additional points for pages read. I think this also encourages people to read larger books that they might ignore based on the length and the worry about not being able to fit it in the challenge. Or, worse yet, ignoring a book based on the size of it because they don't want to read a larger book for a 5-point task.


The larger point tasks are becoming more complicated, which isn't necessarily an issue in itself. But when we see just how many people are finishing the Fall Challenge and how many larger point tasks there are going to be, it's almost... overwhelming to see some of the task ideas. I'm normally all for the idea that those who finish the challenge should be able to choose the task they want. But I'm also of the mind that it should be within reason. I finished the Winter Challenge last year and I was asked to amend my task idea from the get-go. I'm wondering now why it was required then but it isn't now? Considering, especially, at that time I think there were only three or four of us that finished the challenge, and here we're looking at more than a dozen. It seems to me to be getting a little out of control.

As much as I like the idea of other contestants having a chance to come up with task ideas for the lower tasks, I worry they too will become just as out of control.


If one of the concerns is the idea of "excluding" readers, I might also point out that some coming into these challenges might be turned off by the amount of tasks and the requirements for some of the higher point tasks, and therefore might not participate. Seems to be getting closer to inaccessible to a large amount of readers than embracing, which people here seem to be all in agreement should be the purpose. A free-for-all can be just as discouraging as it is to incorporate a few extra rules.

Well said El!!

There is a discussion folder to this group which readers add their reviews for the novels that they've read. I periodically surf that folder to hunt for new books to add to my TBR.

The Winter Challenge looks to be exciting with a lot of varying tasks. Doubt I'll finish but the tasks have given me a shot to clean up my TBR shelf!

I *like* seeing folks' thoughts about the books as they post the points. I can skim the entry, or ignore it. I don't have to click on any other link and then navigate back to the initial page, or remember to look in someone's folder. At least giving it a quick star rating would help me decide if I wanted to pursue it further.

I do provide the link to the book title when I post my points. (I wish more folks did that.) That's why I don't provide a real review that outlines the plot, just my impressions of the book and thought of how it worked in the challenge which aren't really appropriate in the official review section for the book.

I agree with El. I'd like it if people would link the books they read.

This would be my dream...

I finished The Book Thief for challenge 15.7. I thought the story was good but the characters were flat. 2 stars

*note* this is an example. The Book Thief was awesome.

Felina wrote: "I agree with El. I'd like it if people would link the books they read.

This would be my dream...

I finished The Book Thief for challenge 15.7. I thought the story was good but th..."

That's exactly what I was thinking of in terms of a 'review' too. Somthing that gives me a clue whether to dig deeper into taking a look at the book myself.

I like that sort of review, Felina. I also agree with the linking of books. Not everyone writes reviews to the books they read (I don't for most of the books I read) so a little one-liner review might be nice...

About the points for pages read... I don't really see how that would work well with the point tasks... I like the pointing system that we have now.

We use the points for pages in another group I am in, what we do is: If the book has between x and y number of pages, add 4 points, if it has between y+1 and z add 6 points. The thing is, you have to put the number of pages in the book when you post your task completion.

Also - this works better if you post a link to the book, that way the mod can verify the extra points that are based on the pages.

El wrote: "I have a couple thoughts based on different things people have said:

I'm not about to get into another discussion (or argument) about YA books, but would just like to point out that there is a gro..."

Very well said EL. Thanks for posting this. I agree 100% with every point you have made.

So - my two cents worth.

The Fall Challenge was my first seasonal challenge. Before I started, I told myself that this would be a benchmark that I could compare future efforts to, and I actually did much worse than I thought. I will finish with only 100 - 125 points at most. Mostly that is due to my own personality, and not organizing things the way I thought I would. I did find, though, that I enjoy planning what books to read almost as much as actually reading the book!!

In general, I think that everyone does a really great job of picking tasks, but have to agree with Sam about using more broad tasks, rather than ones that are too specific.

Although I don't dislike using birthdays, initials, etc in tasks altogether, I do agree that it may give some people an advantage if used too specifically. If you have an extremely long or short, or otherwise unusual name, birthdate, etc. These tasks can be "deal breakers" (although not impossible).

I would like to see some specific guidelines as to what makes a task at each level. It seems that some of the lower point tasks are more complex than some of the higher ones and is very confusing. And I agree with El in that, while I don't want to take a perk away from anyone who completes the challenge (I hope to be one of them someday!), I do think that the more of those challenges there are, the more daunting the task seems, and the more important it is to not make the tasks too complicated.

I would also like to give positive feedback on the tasks that ask you to use goodreads in other ways (the around the world tasks, etc.) as I learned a few neat new tricks in these tasks.

I also like the idea of giving points for pages read. As I mentioned above, we do that in another group I am in, and it works quite well. Just a thought.

All in all though. I really enjoyed the challenge my first time through, and will most likely continue to enjoy it and participate regardless of the changes that are made or not made.