Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

We're adding a quiz new librarians must complete prior to applying.

Can you guys suggest some questions?

I'm thinking maybe it should be 20 questinos or so long, and every question will need an explaination.


Some questions should be examples, like "should book x be combined with book y".


Thanks for you help!

FYI, this is thread (with lots of suggestions) from the last time this was discussed: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

I thinkthat's a great idea and examples are definitely a good idea. I don't know if you'll need anything after going through the other link but if I was making the quiz I'd go through the manual and pull from there. Great idea!

OK, I'll take a look.

Just as long as old librarians won't have to take the quiz too. We'll be grandfathered, yes?

Lobstergirl wrote: "Just as long as old librarians won't have to take the quiz too. We'll be grandfathered, yes?"

That would great if the quiz would be just for new librarians.

If the quiz will be for just people applying to be librarians, I would appreciate it if it was posted somewhere for current librarians to look at it. I'd like to at least view any quizzes to assure myself that I know everything I need to know. I'd like to think that other librarians would want to do the same. The fact is that all the errors that have been made and that are motivating Goodreads to require a quiz are being made by current librarians. I don't mind us being exempt from taking the quiz, but I'd like the questions/answers available to all librarians. Thanks for listening.

I agree with Lisa - I would like to be able to see and take the quiz

Lobstergirl wrote: "Just as long as old librarians won't have to take the quiz too. We'll be grandfathered, yes?"

I don't think the quiz will be for the first "level" of librarians. More than that will have to be determined once the levels and the quiz(es) are more clearly defined.

I'd like to take it, just to make sure I'm not blithely going around, screwing everything up.

We'd liek to make the quiz suggested for all levels of librarians also. Since its a little more interactive and engaging than reading a long librarians manual.

I love this idea! Although I don't get the time to work on problems posted as other librarians do, I agree there are problems with the system. I see a lot where extra books are added then no pic no synopsis. Its just a link to a book that goes no where and then people add it to their lists instead of the real thing. Gets frustrating! And yes, I would love to see the quiz and make sure I am not making things worse for other librarians either.

I would like 30 days or so (90 days?) where existing librarians retain their Librarian status and can take the quiz and then their status is revoked. That is, I would like this to be required (and not just recommended) for everyone with Librarian status.

I'd also like users to take a quiz before they can manually add books. It need not have a book requirement before they take the quiz, but I think requiring a quiz first should completely prevent users from manually adding books (and NABs) which then need to be cleaned up by other librarians.

I'd like to also recommend that all of the questions include a "Post a Message to the Librarian Group". Along with this, there should be one really obscure issue for which the only correct answer listed is to post a message to the librarian group. Perhaps something like:

You and another librarian keep undoing each other's change on one of your favorite book. What your doing is what you read in the librarian manual, however you are pretty sure the person undoing the change has been a librarian longer than you. What do you do?

A. Send an email to the other person, if you don't get a reply in 24 hours, change it back again.

B. You're doing what the librarian manual said, so change it back.

C. In addition to changing it back for the books in your library, go through the other person's library and fix all their other books.

D. Leave their books alone, but keep making the same changes elsewhere on books the other person does not monitor.

E. Post a question in the "Goodreads Librarian" group.

Answer A is wrong because you have no idea when a person will be online. It may only be once a week. Answer B is wrong as it doesn't stop the cycle of changing back and forth, and C is even worse as you also make the person mad. Option D avoids the issue with specific book, but someone is still doing something wrong and it doesn't try to prevent that other librarian from doing anything different. Option E is particularly correct as changes in policy may happen and the librarian handbook can change since you became a librarian.

I'd also like at least one question that can only be answered by checking the Librarian board. I think something like "Please introduce yourself to the other Goodreads Librarians. Who created the 'Introduce Yourself' topic?"

Which of the following characters should you attach to a book:

A. All characters encountered by full name.

B. Only characters that are main characters in this particular book.

C. Characters which are central to this book or central to another book. Any minor character without a major part in another book should never be listed.

D. All central characters in this or in other books as well as minor fan favorite character in more than one book that are not directly tied to a more important character.

E. All central characters in this or in other books as well as any minor fan favorite character in more than one book.

Option A is bad because it produces huge character lists which are not actually meaningful to readers.

Option B is bad as there are characters which cross-over from one series to visit another series. (Possibly by different authors even.)

Option C is the right track, but it could be better. Fans can't always easily find the characters they want to look for, and if a fan-favorite minor character is spun-off in to their own book or series someone needs to go back through and add that character to the older books.

Option D and E are almost the same, and both pretty good. They cover cases of cross-over, and even include some prep-work for characters which could be spun-off with a built-in fan-base. The problem with D is that while "That Horrible Aunt" may only exist to be a pain in the neck to the main character, those moments may be absolutely priceless. Anytime someone may want to find all books with a particular favorite character it should be easy. Option E covers all the major characters, plus any minor characters which the fans love and may want to search for by name.

I also think this could be worded more clearly in the manual.

I think this is a bad idea!!! You shouldn't have a quiz.

I'm only a librarian so I can correct typos and add books that aren't in the database. That's pretty much all I want to do. If I have to take a quiz for that, I'll probably just give up the librarian status and send my corrections to one of you.

Steven wrote: "Which of the following characters should you attach to a book:

A. All characters encountered by full name.

B. Only characters that are main characters in this particular book.

C. Characters whic..."

That is beyond anal.

Shoshanapnw wrote: "I'm only a librarian so I can correct typos and add books that aren't in the database. That's pretty much all I want to do. If I have to take a quiz for that, I'll probably just give up the librari..."

Any member can manually add books to the database. Librarian status is not needed.

Given how many items are incorrectly added to the database, one could argue for a quiz for that too. I know that isn't being planned though.

Hm. At the time, I was told I had to be a librarian to add and to edit typos.

To edit typos, yes. To manually add books to the database, no.

Got it.

I probably would not have joined Goodreads if I did not have the ability, as a regular user, to manually add my books. I tried out a few other sites, and quite a few of them I ran into that problem onto, and that, combined with some other issues, was a reason why I ended up at goodreads.

Regarding posting a message to the librarian group, I really feel like that IS what most of us do. Or, if we happen to make a mistake, we're making it on some unknown book that isn't going to be reached by very many people on the site. (I know when I started out, I made a few mistakes, but they were on Indian books, and I fixed them when I later learned of my mistake.)

I don't think it's "wrong" to send a message to the librarian. Some might find it annoying, others might welcome it.

Lobstergirl wrote: That is beyond anal.

What did you expect? I requested librarian status because I love good meta-information. The character information is a part of that. I get a little OCD about it, side-tracked in to cleaning up information for hours on books that I will probably never read, but are by an author I read once.

The stuff isn't done until it is complete and correct.

Anna wrote: "Lobstergirl wrote: "Just as long as old librarians won't have to take the quiz too. We'll be grandfathered, yes?"

That would great if the quiz would be just for new librarians."
Ditto.

I've read the manual and I think I'd pass the quiz with flying colors.

I agree though with those that say current librarians should be grandfathered in.

There are some librarians on here that have messed things royally, but I bet the majority are people like me who make little changes here and there, clean things up and let the super-librarians fix the big stuff.

Vickie wrote: "So, I will continue to do the best I can with my minor little corrections of spelling or capitalization, etc. And adding whatever material I can in the time allowed. It's the best I can do."

Many hands make light work, Vickie! The little changes you make are really important to GR.

There's nothing wrong, to my mind, about doing part of a cataloging job and leaving the rest to the next person. That's a better record than it would have been, otherwise, and it keeps volunteers from burning out!

I even read the manual, asked a couple of questions, and have done a good job. I vote NAY on inQUIZistion.

I wish there was a way to see everything librarians do, and then I'd be happy with no quiz. (I don't "test well" even though I'd take it.)

For instance, my biggest peeve is well meaning librarians who have deleted valued manually added editions of books. All of a sudden, even though they've included much descriptive information, they're gone. There's no way to see which librarian has incorrectly deleted these. These are current librarians doing this, and making the other errors being made, so I'm assuming this is why the quiz is being proposed for current AND new librarians.

There really are a lot of errors being made. Now, we've all made some, but I suspect some current librarians are making a lot, and I know members are asking for new librarian status all the time.

ETA: I don't think the quiz should be overly detailed or difficult and I think it should still be stressed that it's important to read the manual and then check frequently for updates - something I need to remember to do more often!

To be certain of not doing that I submit changes to this group for someone else to check. Perhaps that would work, voluntarily submitting work for approval, for at least the first six months?

I'd like to clarify a few things.

This thread is and has been for suggestions of what such a quiz should look like. Not all questions should be used, and not all suggestions will be followed (which is good, since some are mutually exclusive!)

Steven (with a v, as opposed to Stephen) made several suggestions that I am quite certain will not be used: Otis is definitely against anything that would keep new users from adding books. And despite the amount of extra work that occasionally entails for us librarians, I agree with that, in general.

Steven also suggested some rules for characters. I disagree with them on the face of it, and also don't think we should have any questions that cannot be answered by either checking the manual or a quick check of this group.

Steven, I applaud your enthusiasm, and I see that you have already done quite a bit of excellent librarian work. But perhaps it isn't necessary to try to change everything about how we've done things for several years in your first month, hmm? ;)

Lisa wrote: "... There really are a lot of errors being made. Now, we've all made some, but I suspect some current librarians are making a lot..."

It would be interesting to have all these errors (anonymously, of course) gathered in a thread where all librarians could see what mustn't be done (and some of us would see what we've done wrong).
That way, we could also learn from the mistakes of others.

Compared to the previous discussion, it's pretty serious here, even a little tense.
I like the idea of a librarian quiz, but it doesn't have to be dead serious. It's not a job, it's a passion for books that brought us here.

Cecile wrote: "I like the idea of a librarian quiz, but it doesn't have to be dead serious. It's not a job, it's a passion for books that brought us here."

Amen!

Since my name is so similar to someone who has taken a greater part in this conversation, I will stop. While I agree it is all to be fun, we must take care of our collections, lest we look foolish in my grand plan to have us be the next Kirkus. LOL

Maybe one of the answers could be, "I'm not sure what to do, I'd leave it alone and let another librarian handle it."

They could get a certain number of "pass" questions that wouldn't count against them or for them, but they would fail if they went above that number... does that make sense?

That makes a lot of sense, Philip!

Stephen wrote: "To be certain of not doing that I submit changes to this group for someone else to check. Perhaps that would work, voluntarily submitting work for approval, for at least the first six months?"

That sounds good and reasonable, although maybe it should be amended to "involuntarily."

Cecile wrote: "It would be interesting to have all these errors (anonymously, of course) gathered in a thread where all librarians could see what mustn't be done (and some of us would see what we've done wrong).
That way, we could also learn from the mistakes of others.
..."

Excellent idea.

Here's a thought. Since deleting a book is permanent and leaves no trail, maybe deletions should only be permitted by Superlibrarians. Regular librarians would still be permitted to do everything else.

Deleting a book does leave a trail. And right now it is limited to supers, except if the book is combined with at least one other edition and has been shelved/rated/reviewed five or fewer time.

rivka wrote: "Deleting a book does leave a trail. And right now it is limited to supers, except if the book is combined with at least one other edition and has been shelved/rated/reviewed five or fewer time."

Oh, I inferred from Lisa's comment #33 that no trail was left. I'm glad to be contradicted. And still, the fact that any librarian can delete a book shelved/rated/reviewed 5- times is definitely a cause for concern if they are being deleted in error. I was thinking maybe we should leave the deletions of these books to Supers as well.

They can only be deleted in that case if they are combined with another edition. Which means the shelving/ratings get shifted to that other edition -- they are not lost.

I think that is sufficient. The big problems we have had have rarely been about deletions. They have been about edits and combines.

Lobstergirl, I apologize. My error. Of course, there is a trail. I was mistaken. Sometimes, by the time I notice my edition is no longer "my" edition, it's challenging to figure out that trail, but Rivka is correct.

Rivka, I suppose you're right but I'm never happy when I see my edition no longer in the database, especially since my scanner is broken and it's too expensive to take photos and send them to my computer and upload from there.

I'd be tempted to have some limitations about deleting editions, but I admit that doing so wouldn't be very practical as there are so many "editions" that should be deleted. It's actually helpful to have a bunch of librarians contributing. (I'll stop complaining.)

rivka wrote: "Steven, I applaud your enthusiasm, and I see that you have already done quite a bit of excellent librarian work. But perhaps it isn't necessary to try to change everything about how we've done things for several years in your first month, hmm? ;)"

Forums are about discussion. If you want ideas, I have ideas. I never said all my ideas were good -- that is why there is (1) discussion, and (2) someone with the final say. :)

I'm certainly not trying to change everything. I have better things to do. My understanding was that there would definitely be a quiz, so some things are definitely changing. Consider me the counter to the folks that want the status quo. Some may say leave good enough alone, and I say you could really go just a little further. ;)

Otis is officially against a required quiz. We'll probably still add an optional one, especially now that we have the quizzes feature.

Could you use the quiz as one in a list of indicators for the application process?

Optional quiz would be good; although I still think making it required would be even better. But it's okay.

MICHAEL wrote: "Otis is officially against a required quiz. We'll probably still add an optional one, especially now that we have the quizzes feature."

I'm glad to hear the required quiz has been nixed. I don't see the point in quizzing someone on something they haven't even done yet. Also, the Librarian Manual is not that thorough. To be really helpful it should be linked to examples or tutorials of each process being explained including screen shots or video (or better yet, make it interactive).

What I would love to see, as a newish librarian who still doesn't understand how to do some stuff, is a mini-database "sandbox" where new librarians could practice some things and play with the edit features without affecting the real database. I don't really understand the combining, separating, merging thing and I think I screwed one up when I tried so I don't want to do it again until I understand it, but have no place to experiment with it.

Or possibly a mentor system where an experienced librarian can volunteer to mentor a trainee librarian and help walk them through the more complicated editing. I know I can ask questions in the forum but sometimes questions get drowned out by other issues or go unanswered. It would be nice to have a "go to" person to ask questions.

What I would love to see, as a newish librarian who still doesn't understand how to do some stuff, is a mini-database "sandbox" where new librarians could practice some things and play with the edit features without affecting the real database. I don't really understand the combining, separating, merging thing and I think I screwed one up when I tried so I don't want to do it again until I understand it, but have no place to experiment with it.


I'm not sure this is well documented, but you can play around with the author NOT A BOOK all you want.

I'd like to be a librarian someday. I'd like the quiz to be option and I'll take it and see what I'd need to bone up on. But I'd not like to take it and have to pass to be a librarian.