Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Danielle wrote: "I write mystery/suspense and I know where I'm going before I start. I plot out major events and some minor ones. I know who did it before I start writing.

I like reading books that have wit, int..."

Thank you, this is what I was asking. It isn't that you have badly written characters, it's that they have to be more tightly controlled. For me, that would be very difficult and I admire anyone who does it.
In your case, the story is written (in the sense that you know who did it and why) and your characters have to discover it.
In my case, I start with characters, set a scene, and follow them. You say, "She must go to the barn and discover a dead body." I say, "She's heading for the barn, I wonder what she will discover?" I'm often as surprised as they are. Lol
It's not about right and wrong. I just like to see how other writers work and the techniques they use to get the story told.

I never have the faintest idea where the story will go. The hero runs out of dental floss and it's off and away. (You can braid it into a rope strong enough to escape out of a window by, you know!)

I'm afraid I'm one of those planners. The whole book plays like a movie in my mind. I write the whole thing down in sections on a story board, and then go back and tweek the things that don't work/fit.

Rod

I know where it's going and I know how we're going to get there...sometimes I'm a little sketchy on what exactly is going to happen in the car on the way.

I recently wrote a chapter in which I had no idea what the punchline was going to be. I didn't know what it was going to be as I put my fingers in position to type it. I swear to you...I SWEAR to you...one of my characters leaned on my shoulder from behind and said the stinger into my ear as I typed it. It was perfect.

I should probably give that guy a raise.

Mine is never just one person, we have to convene a board meeting. There's allways that one guy that shows up uninvited.

Rod

:-DDDDD Ha!Yeah, I can see that. That's funny!

I wrote a novel once, about 200 pages of fairly detailed and chronological story about my heroine's rocky childhood. When she was 21 for reasons of plot she needed to hire a detective. She was in New York City at the time, so she found one and walked into his office. The gumshoe was sitting at his desk.
And he looked up at me (not her!) and said, "I am the hero. This is page one." I said, "Wait a minute. What am I going to do with pages 1-200? This book has been going for a long time, without you!" But he insisted. "No, since I'm the hero, this is page one."
And, drat it, it was. I had to cut the first 200 pages and rewrite extensively to get them into the work. It completely messed up the time scheme. And then the hero took over the plot, dragging the heroine into bed and getting into a whole bunch of adventures of his own.
I was so mad at him, I decided to fix it. You do not mess with your author! I had her shoot him dead, on a beach in St. Thomas. So I wrote that, and I went to bed congratulating myself that the book was DONE. And then, while I was asleep, a new ending came to me. It was much, much better, but it did involve him living and moving to California. It was so MUCH better an ending that I had to rewrite. And he lived, darn him. Some characters you just cannot kill with a stick.

Brenda wrote: Some characters you just cannot kill with a stick.

Well, to misquote C.S.Lewis: Whoever heard of a character that ever really died? You can always get them back.

Chris wrote: "Brenda wrote: Some characters you just cannot kill with a stick.

Well, to misquote C.S.Lewis: Whoever heard of a character that ever really died? You can always get them back."

You forced me to stand in the middle of my kitchen and think until I placed that. Prince Caspian, the hags trying to raise the Witch.

First sentence for The Protector

Her body lay near the bottom of the stairs, sprawled sideways, her neck twisted in an ugly way so that she stared up at the ceiling with dull hazel eyes.

Jacqueline wrote: "Danielle wrote: "I write mystery/suspense and I know where I'm going before I start. I plot out major events and some minor ones. I know who did it before I start writing.

I like reading books t..."

Sometimes, I do have the characters and the scene like you mentioned, but I haven't worked out what they say or do yet. There have been times when I've been awake at night and can't go back to sleep. The characters start talking. That's when it's time to get to work on that scene. It happens when I'm driving too, but I have to use my mini digital recorder to get the ideas down before I forget. But, mostly, I have a good idea of what's going to happen. Isn't writing fun and unpredictable at times?

I can't write a mystery until I know "who doneit."

I had my victim set for the new mystery I am working on but the "who done it" was too obvious. I put aside for weeks and went to do other things when out of the blue it hit me, change the killer to someone else.

That gave me a whole new set of suspects and now I am writing furiously.

Richard Brawer
www.silklegacy.com

I know of mystery writers who do NOT know who dunnit. They say that if they knew, how could the reader be surprised?
I sort of know in a general way who is the killer, in my current work-in-progress, but I have no details. I will write up to that point and dive off into open space.

Brenda wrote: "I know of mystery writers who do NOT know who dunnit. They say that if they knew, how could the reader be surprised?
I sort of know in a general way who is the killer, in my current work-in-progre..."

One question, though: If you don't know who dunnit, and the roles of the other characters, how do you foreshadow coming events? Or lay false trails for that matter?

Regina wrote: "I know where it's going and I know how we're going to get there...sometimes I'm a little sketchy on what exactly is going to happen in the car on the way.

I recently wrote a chapter in which I ha..."

This happens more often than you might think. A well-drawn character is a living entity, and when one of them does this to you, pat yourself on the back for a job well done, and LISTEN TO HIM!

You is quite right. If the characters want to drive, just sit in the back seat and keep out of their way!
As to how I will foreshadow and lay false trails, well, these seem to be happening naturally. I'm writing it and all these suspects pop up, anxious to murder the victim. My problem is that I have no idea how the heroine is going to find the murderer. I'm going to zoom right up to that hole in the plot, gun the engine, and see if the car will leap over the gap.

I constantly revise earlier chapters as the story develops into something deeper than what I started with--and it always does. Whenever I add a new element, it's little trouble to go back and foreshadow it the moment it occurs to me.

The trick then is to not lose your way -- to keep true to the vision of the book as a whole.

When I write mysterious parts and bring false and true trails, I pumysf into skin of my character. I put myself in her position. That way it's easier for me to trick everybody. Sometimes even myself, to be honest

Brenda wrote: "The trick then is to not lose your way -- to keep true to the vision of the book as a whole."

I agree. :-)

Apropos of this, I heard J. A. Jance at the Tucson Festival of Books two weeks ago. At one point she was talking about a book in which she got right down to the end and found that the person she assumed had done it was innocent. When asked if that meant she had to revise everything, she said "no, because he was innocent all along."

Brenda wrote: "You is quite right. If the characters want to drive, just sit in the back seat and keep out of their way!
As to how I will foreshadow and lay false trails, well, these seem to be happening naturall..."

Bold and exhilarating! I guess the only thing more exciting is if it actually makes it! I'm not being critical. I write action-adventure stuff, and in novella-size bits, so I don't really have to deal with this. I tried my hand at a mystery once, and it came out so-so, so I'm just trying to learn how the specialists do it.

I am no expert in mystery (although I have read them all my life). I have never written anything other than science fiction and fantasy. However, this book absolutely insists that it is a Victorian melodrama and a mystery. I am letting the characters drive, and that's the way they want to roll.

For the first 10 pages my starting idea is great. Then the characters start living inside the plot, until eventually they drive the plot.
Adding a new character is, for me, a good way of redirecting the plot. Otherwise I don't have too much to say.

I had an acquaintance once who had a gig writing ethnic sagas. You know, the kind of multivolume epic titled THE SICILIANS, or something like that. (In the first volume the young couple arrives from the old country; volume 2 their kids struggle in the slums of Chicago; volume 3 the grandkids do drugs and get into crime at Harvard.)
These were tedious to write for him. Whenever he hit a wall, he would select two random characters and shove them into bed together. This usually generated enough angst to keep the plot boiling.

If I write a mystery, sometimes I go in with a general idea of whodunnit, but usually I don't have a clue. I write the story first and then during the rewrite go back and leave clues and red herrings, accordingly.

Nenia wrote: "If I write a mystery, sometimes I go in with a general idea of whodunnit, but usually I don't have a clue. I write the story first and then during the rewrite go back and leave clues and red herrin..."

I find that fascinating! To start a book without knowing whodunit. I'm not knocking it. We do what works for us. It's just that I always pictured mystery writers having a tightly controlled outline. Live and learn.

My book is a murder/suicide question and you don't find out until the end but I had no idea who did it until right before I wrote it.

Jacqueline wrote: "Nenia wrote: "If I write a mystery, sometimes I go in with a general idea of whodunnit, but usually I don't have a clue. I write the story first and then during the rewrite go back and leave clues ..."

There are two kinds of writers in this world: the pantsers and the plotters. I'm a pantser. :D

I'm a panster. I know the general plot premise, but once my characters take hold, the plot begins to form. Logically, I know I'm in control, but it doesn't always feel that way!

I read a newspaper article about a baby that was born with a suspected brain impairment and the father refused to take him home from the hospital. The nurses were outraged.

That article gave me the story for my first mystery back in 1994. I wondered what happended to the baby. The story didn't say. I made up a plot that it was either murdered or switched with a healthy baby.

I had the ending worked out immediately after I came up with the premise. I needed an ending to write toward.

Richard Brawer
www.silklegacy.com

Can someone explain what Speculative Fiction is? Its a new one on me and I'm not sure I understand what kind of books fall in that category...

Hi, Melissa,

There's not really agreement on what Speculative Fiction means, although it's usually used as an umbrella term for many genres of fantastical fiction. According to Wikipedia, "Speculative fiction is an umbrella term encompassing the more fantastical fiction genres, specifically science fiction, fantasy, horror fiction, weird fiction, supernatural fiction, superhero fiction, utopian and dystopian fiction, apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, and alternate history in literature as well as related static, motion, and virtual arts." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculat... And here's an interesting article on Margaret Atwood's use of the term Speculative Fiction: http://www.wired.com/2013/09/geeks-gu...

Best Wishes,
Marilyn Peake
http://www.marilynpeake.com

Danielle wrote: "Her body lay near the bottom of the stairs, sprawled sideways, her neck twisted in an ugly way so that she stared up at the ceiling with dull hazel eyes."

Since dead people cannot stare, I'd suggest:

Her body lay near the bottom of the stairs, sprawled sideways, her neck twisted in an ugly way so that her dull hazel eyes seemed to stare up at the ceiling.

(Feel free to ignore my advice)

Okay, I haven't introduced myself yet. I just joined this group and came across this thread and wanted to contribute my first sentence too, but wasn't sure if I'd find the thread again if I left it. So I'll post the sentences, one from my self published novel and one from the 2nd which is currently a WIP to the published one. Hope that all makes sense!

First Sentence of Published e-book. "Nightmares about Monsters and Demons, or ‘Dragons’ as they are sometimes called have plagued me since I was a three year old boy."

Book 2 of WIP. "“What. Is. That?” Elektra looked shocked."

So, I think an intro is due. Hi! my name is Turhan, and I'm off to introduce myself just as soon as I can find the appropriate section of this group :)

ETA: LOL!! I'm such an air-head! I 'did' introduce myself, I forgot that I had done so a couple of days ago. Just ignore me guys, maybe I'm delirious because I've been up since 1:30 this morning, I think I'll make myself some coffee, that usually helps...waves, silly me.

I'm a panster too. I have an idea of the end but getting there is the adventure.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Marilyn wrote: "Hi, Melissa,

There's not really agreement on what Speculative Fiction means, although it's usually used as an umbrella term for many genres of fantastical fiction. According to Wikipedia, "Specula..."

Thank you!

Can we introduce a note of reality? I'd like you to understand that on this Memorial Day weekend there are those of us who never had our stories seen. I had the remains of the World Trade Center Strike our home as a friend was one of the 40 Americans on Flight 93. My point in being here is to just say how the world can change the pupose of your writing, as I was out to capture the life of a Navajo composer who played Carnegie Hall. I worked 5 years for him before asking permission to write his life story, June 15, 2001...

Stephan wrote: "Hello,

I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind. If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers ..."

Hi Stephen,

No not really, the tone of my book may exclude a group e.g. children, but I don't want to be pigeon-holed or to pigeon-hole my readers. I want my stories to cross genres and appeal widely, although inevitably they will be classified and thus attract certain types of readers. If I use graphic violence or sex then I will know my readership will be limited regardless of the the subject.

A particular subject will do this, but when I'm writing the story takes over. perhaps I have this the wrong way round but am not a commercial writer writing for a large publishing company where they want more of the same from their authors because that is what sells. Consider Rowling, she wanted to change from Harry Potter and felt she had to use an alias

In my own reading I have tried to expand the genres I read and I hope other readers do the same. My own books may then get a wider readership rather than a typical - I don't read sci-fi/thrillers/romance/chic lit/fantasy etc.

Stephan wrote: "Hello,

I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind. If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers ..."

The kind of reader I have in mind is me. I write what I like and assuming I'm 'not' an anomaly, my work may be of interest/entertaining to others. Oh, and that is a BIG "may"

Continuing my thoughts I also write when the books I have read on the subject don't satisfy my view of that genre - certainly the case with my second book.

The reader view is very hard to get during a book's journey to publication except via a Beta reader/Publisher/Editor but again that is after the story has been created and neither are readers in the true sense. The next book may take into account criticism, or comment but the book is already out there

A true readership view is only attained when the book is for sale and receives reviews from real readers who have paid hard earned money for the privilege. Some genres sell more than others but likewise there are many writers chasing the popular market. I may foray into that market but it depends what gets typed. I'm now doing what I shouldn't commenting on GR rather than writing....

Hi, anyone is welcome to add me. We could do to-read list book swap. I.e I put your book on my to-read and vice versa :)

Stephan wrote: "I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind."

I write the stories I wanted to read, but couldn't find. And, judging by the reviews I get, my readers seem to like that my books don't 'spoon-feed information', but rather force the reader to pay attention and make their own connections from the hints I provide.

Stephan wrote: "If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers would like?"

In principle, every speech tag and every description that I put in my stories I provide for the reader, since I already know who's speaking and what the setting looks like.

I dislike stories that insult my intelligence and explain everything, so I tend to cater to an audience that is smart enough to figure out the story without having everything explained to them.

So far I think I'm doing a good job, although it's obvious from the feedback/reviews I get that not every reader finds the deeper layers in my stories. That doesn't really matter, because the stories are entertaining enough without penetrating the deeper layers. What I don't do is 'dumb down' my books to appeal the lowest common denominator. Not everyone will enjoy my books, but I can live with that.

Stephan wrote: "Hello,

I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind. If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers ..."

Like Martyn, I write the books I would like to read,
not that my books are like Martyn's other than that I don't dumb down either. I like to think my readers are intelligent, curious and open-minded. Someone once asked me if I wrote for men or women, or a certain age group, and I said I hoped it wasn't that narrow an audience. The best way I can describe the people I write for is that they share my desire for books that break the genre barriers.

Stephan wrote: "Hello,

I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind. If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers ..."

the average reader. so i would provide background info where necessary and tone down on anything that could be offensive to some..

I only tone down what would be extremely offensive to my mom.

I write for people who enjoy what I enjoy. I try to make sure that what I write isn't ONLY understandable to me (not so many inside jokes, clarity of vocabulary, that sort of thing) but I don't write anything I wouldn't like to read (as mentioned above).

You should write for you. Because, if you want to write for somebody else, there are much better-paying ways to do it. You could write legal briefs, advertising copy, press releases -- and they would pay you salary and benefits!
When you write fiction, you had better love what you write. Do not worry about editors and readers; you can fix that later. (Fix it when an editor pays you to fix it.)

Stephan wrote: "Hello,

I do have a question for authors. It's a general question: when you write, do you have a particular kind of reader in mind. If so, do you adapt your writing to what you expect the readers ..."

I never have done but I read an article recently which suggested making up an ideal reader - actually creating them as a character and writing for them alone. It might be fun to try!

Jason wrote: "I write for people who enjoy what I enjoy. I try to make sure that what I write isn't ONLY understandable to me (not so many inside jokes, clarity of vocabulary, that sort of thing) but I don't wri..."

Absolutely, I second that. My philosophy is that even if no one else likes or buys my books, at least I'll have something good to read.