Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Jacqueline wrote: "Lance wrote: "Steven wrote: "When starting a story, do you ever just start writing something not knowing where it's going to go...?"

Given what I write (thrillers and intrigue), I can't not outlin..."

I have three books and a fourth awaiting a redraft having put it away for months. My first a thriller also has a sequel in production. For the thrillers I have had to outline and more. I use a timeline piece of software to keep the calendar going and solve the timezone, date, travel conundrums. My other two I just wrote although with my second I did have to plot a timeline because it's set over a long period and I wanted to know how old people were. My third is told in retrospect but just flowed.

Brenda wrote: "Remember Kipling? He said, there are nine and ninety ways of writing tribal lays. And all of them are right!

Any way you get it written is the correct way. If you need to use a steel burin on the ..."

Thanks, Brenda.
It's interesting to see how other writers do it, and you're right - if it works, that's what's best for you.

Jacqueline wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Remember Kipling? He said, there are nine and ninety ways of writing tribal lays. And all of them are right!

Any way you get it written is the correct way. If you need to use a stee..."

I love the comments people have added. I've written with an outline and without one. I've noticed at some point I do need to write down some facts or I get lost in traffic as I navigate along with my characters. It's a fun trip either way.

As others have mentioned it often depends on the type of book one writes. My 4th book is a murder mystery and I had to do recipe cards to keep everyone straight since it took place over 1 week and I had to figure out where everyone was, including the murderer!

As Jacqueline just pointed out, "if it works, that's what best for you." I heartily agree!

Penny, I'm finding with my murder mysteries that if I don't have it all outlined and timelined and all before I write, I have to do it when editing. Though for me that's more natural, it just makes for more work (getting it right the first time SHOULD be easier. If my brain worked that way. . . ).

Another account of how one author does it:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainm...

I could never do this. I need to write things down, so they don't get lost. Keeping things in my head means that they don't have a concrete form. I need to see them.

It depends on the story. For the mystery series I write I have an outline and more importantly, a timeline of events so I don't get lost. During the writing of my most recent book, The Murder House, which was released on January 3rd, there were all sorts of issues going on in my private life and having those guidelines were more valuable than ever.

For Mags and the AARP Gang, a one-off comedy I wrote about a group of renegade octogenarian bank robbers, I just wrote what Mags dictated.

You should know that regardless of how I write, before I begin I do a profile for all the named characters in the book so I know who they are and how they think.

I don't really write. I record what people are doing and follow along to see what they'll get up to. When I'm recording it's like I'm watching a movie - I can see what they look like, what they're wearing and exactly the setting they're in. And I'm never sure who they are to begin with - they let me know as we go along. Sometimes they surprise me, even shock me - but they are all people in a play and intend on each other. They never see me sitting in the dark at the back of the theatre, never see me at all...

Brenda wrote: "Another account of how one author does it:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainm...

I could never do this. I need to..."
LOL. Keeping things in my head is like storing water in a colander.

Okay, people,
Where do you do your best thinking?
For me, it's in the shower. I swear, I could write a whole book in there if the hot water tank was large enough! Put me under a pounding spray of hot water and my mind begins to wander to great places. The Dear Spouse says it's a good thing my books are finally selling. Now we can afford the water bill!

Well, when I'm biking I have what I think are great ideas and brilliant insights. On the rare occasions I either write them down or remember until I get home, I usually can't figure out what I thought was so brilliant.

Honestly? The best thoughts about my writing come when I'm writing. Occasionally when thinking about the story after I've finished writing for the day.

I always get good idea when I am forced to sit still away from the computer. Sermons in church are marvelously productive sometimes.

Brenda wrote: "I always get good idea when I am forced to sit still away from the computer. Sermons in church are marvelously productive sometimes."

When I was writing my first cozy mystery, I too came up with many ideas when I was sitting in church on a Sunday morning.

And also in the shower as Jacqueline said. I even keep a pad and pen in the shower to jot things down.

Susan Bernhardt

I've also been know to travel five - ten miles past my intended highway exit!

Jacqueline wrote: "I've also been know to travel five - ten miles past my intended highway exit!"

Funny Jacqueline. Many times I would go to bed purposely thinking about my chapters hoping to fall asleep and dream the solution/ideas. I never dreamed of ideas but a number of times when I would wake up, I'd have ideas, solutions to my chapters and would grab a pad and paper that I keep in a small basket on my bedside table and write those down.

Susan wrote: "Jacqueline wrote: "I've also been know to travel five - ten miles past my intended highway exit!"

Funny Jacqueline. Many times I would go to bed purposely thinking about my chapters hoping to fall..."

That's a great idea and I think I'm going to start carrying a pad and pen to the shower, too. I also seem to write best when I'm supposed to be doing something else. I guess procrastination works in my favor sometimes.

Um, doesn't the paper get soggy?

LOL - I meant so when I get out, the pad is there waiting for me.

Rebecca wrote: "Um, doesn't the paper get soggy?"

Good morning, Rebecca and Jacqueline. The paper doesn't get soggy. I suppose a few drops of water may fall on it...lol. I actually have the pen attached in the shower with the pad of paper hanging over the top into the room. I'm serious about great ideas in the shower and I don't trust my memory. When I come up with something, I want to write it down right away. I've had too many ideas that I thought of, for example on a walk, and when I returned home, I couldn't think of what they were or how to phrase something that I thought was "golden"...lol. When walking I started keeping pencil and paper in my coat pocket. Also I have a small recorder that I have used a number of times on my walks when I'm alone.

Susan wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Um, doesn't the paper get soggy?"

Good morning, Rebecca and Jacqueline. The paper doesn't get soggy. I suppose a few drops of water may fall on it...lol. I actually have the pen at..."

You're a wealth of good ideas. Thanks!

The thing I do is to sleep. The only trick here is to not wake with an alarm; sleep until you wake naturally. Then lie in bed. At this moment you are in a liminal state. If you were clever, the night before, you would have thought about the current plot difficulty, and it will be at the top of your brain this morning. Just lie there, with the covers pulled up, and doze, thinking. I always have lots of grand ideas this way. It is important to get up after a while and immediately write them all down, just a word or two so they don't fly away. you can then spend all day building them into the current ms. Next evening, do it again.

Brenda wrote: "The thing I do is to sleep. The only trick here is to not wake with an alarm; sleep until you wake naturally. Then lie in bed. At this moment you are in a liminal state. If you were clever, the nig..."

Sound advice. This works.

Brenda wrote: "The thing I do is to sleep. The only trick here is to not wake with an alarm; sleep until you wake naturally. Then lie in bed. At this moment you are in a liminal state. If you were clever, the nig..."

It's a great idea, Brenda. Similar to what I do as well. It really works.

Clever idea, Brenda!

Alas, this does not work if you have children. Or pets. If he is hungry my cat will climb onto the bed, rest his chin on my ear, and purr. It makes me dream of garage doors opening and shutting.

I read somewhere that Thomas Edison liked to brainstorm in the state between wakefulness and dreams. This was his method. He'd sit in a chair with a metal bowl in his lap. He'd hold some metal balls of some sort in his fist, wrist resting on the edge of the bowl. He'd then try to nod off to sleep. When he fell totally asleep, the metal balls would drop into the bowl and wake him up. He'd then start the process all over again.

My idea is that any way you can do it is the right way -- for you. If the only way to get the novel out is to engrave it on the side of a late-model Ford Explorer with a steel burin, sure, go for it.

Brenda wrote: "Alas, this does not work if you have children. Or pets. If he is hungry my cat will climb onto the bed, rest his chin on my ear, and purr. It makes me dream of garage doors opening and shutting."

LOL! No cat, but an alarm at 6:10 every weekday pretty much ruins this. The good thing is, I can go to bed at night and think about a story--and fall asleep in moments. Doesn't do much for the writing, but insomnia is seldom a problem :p

Brenda, unfortunately I never get to wake when my body wants to--my alarm has to get me up at five AM when I'd much rather sleep until nine.

Therefore I do it backwards. As I'm drifting off to sleep I "play" the movie in my head, imagining scenes of the book and determining what each character would do in the scenario. I've come up with some good plot twists this way, as the antagonist gets a change to plot against the protagonist.

I also keep a notebook near my bed.

Jacqueline wrote: "Okay, people,
Where do you do your best thinking?


I do my best thinking when I should be thinking about other things, unfortunately. In class. When I'm trying to do homework or study. When I'm trying to go to sleep because I have to get up early in the morning. Never at the "appropriate" times with me.

When I'm bored and sitting at my computer? Nothing.

Therin wrote: "Jacqueline wrote: "Okay, people,
Where do you do your best thinking?


I do my best thinking when I should be thinking about other things, unfortunately. In class. When I'm trying to do homework or..."
We have something in common, Therin! If we're having company for supper and I should be setting the table, I find myself typing pages and pages. Same thing if I have a doctor's appointment. I seem to write best when I should be doing something else. I wonder what that says about people like us? lol

Philip wrote: "Give Scrivener a try ideal as a writing tool and comes with output formats preconfigured. I now use it instead of Word for nearly all my writing. Tried OpenOffice as well, but Scrivener as a writ..."

Phillip.

I'm extremely versed in the functionality of Word, and I've found it does everything I need/hope for writing (very well). Especially the custom programmed style formats and features. The only thing I wish it had was conversion to .mobi and .epub (I epect that in the near future). I'm intrigued. What did you like about Skrivener over word, especially considering its price.

Jacqueline wrote: "We have something in common, Therin! If we're having company for supper and I should be setting the table, I find myself typing pages and pages. Same thing if I have a doctor's appointment. I seem to write best when I should be doing something else. I wonder what that says about people like us? lol"

I've always wondered if it isn't some psychological thing. Like, when you're bored, you don't feel productive, so you don't produce any good ideas. But when you have something you're supposed to be doing, you feel productive, and thus, start producing good ideas.

Which inevitably leads to you not focusing on the thing you're supposed to be doing and instead leads you to focus on the ideas you wish you had when you were bored and had nothing to do.

That's one of my theories, anyway. Human brains are complicated.

I do my best thinking at night, waiting to fall asleep. My characters really talk to me then.

Glenn wrote: "Hey, I've got an idea that will be fun and help all of us imagine that we're promoting our books:

What's the first line of your novel?

I suggest this in partial response to the question about w..."

"On the fringes of the small, brightly lit circle, radiant beneath a spotlight of her own, stood a beautiful woman of Asian descent." From my Science Fiction novel, "Ship of Storms."

"Although his wife's palate was discriminating to a nicety, neither Jack Wragsland nor Marilee cooked. Their virgin oven still had the energy-saver stickers on the door, and Jack kept paperback poetry anthologies inside. His breakfast reading goal was to catch up on all the verse he had missed by traveling almost 170 years into the future."

Ken and Brenda, you shame me with your intriguing first lines! My current WIP, Wolver's Gold, begins with a simple, "What the hell has that crazy wolver gotten us into now?"

But my favorite comes from my Guardian's Faith. - Having only recently crawled from the dark cavern of her madness, Faith Parsons seriously considered crawling back in.

Jacqueline wrote: "Ken and Brenda, you shame me with your intriguing first lines! My current WIP, Wolver's Gold, begins with a simple, "What the hell has that crazy wolver gotten us into now?"

Both of those sound pretty good to me.

Stan wrote: "I do my best thinking at night, waiting to fall asleep. My characters really talk to me then."

I actually try to avoid this, as too much thinking about work will make me fail to fall asleep. Inventing stories I never intend to share, on the other hand, makes me drop off in seconds, often while I'm in the middle of tormenting some character beyond belief. Go figure.

I've been starring at this topic for too long without jumping in, so I guess I'll just make a splash and answer a few things!

The first line of my book is: The ground beneath her feet was solid, but in her mind, everything was crumpling around her.

I do my best writing when I probably should be working on something else. Scribbling notes on a napkin at a red light or typing it in the middle of my school notes... NaNoWriMo also helped create some of my better work, when I couldn't talk myself out of writing.

Stan wrote: "I do my best thinking at night, waiting to fall asleep. My characters really talk to me then."

I can relate to that, but I lay in bed in the morning thinking about my characters.

Therin wrote: "Jacqueline wrote: "Okay, people,
Where do you do your best thinking?


I do my best thinking when I should be thinking about other things, unfortunately. In class. When I'm trying to do homework or..."

My best ideas come on long runs. I have the most amazing flow of thoughts out in the desert. I've had a sprained toe (!) holding me back for a while and all I can seem to do is revise. Not a waste of time, far from it--I'm a revision fanatic--but I seem to need running for the best new material.Wonder what I'll do if I can't run when I'm 80 or 100.

Glenn wrote: "Hey, I've got an idea that will be fun and help all of us imagine that we're promoting our books: What's the first line of your novel?"

"Luis Ojeda scanned his binoculars along the rusty sixteen-foot fence to the dirt road’s visible ends. Nothing."

From my near-future thriller South . Sorry to be so late to the party.

Hey, Lance, Good opening and I don't think you can be late to this party. It's been around for a while. We just need new questions to keep it going. I like the way everyone is so supportive here.

So I have a question to keep things going.

What do you do when you realize you have a plot flaw in your book? Do you immediately drop everything to sort it out? Outline? Organize coffee with a friend? I'm curious how everyone troubleshoots problems.

Hi, I don't think I've posted in this topic yet!

Mati, I think it depends on what kind of flaw there is. When I end up writing a scene that has certain details I hadn't introduced earlier, or I need an object or bit of backstory to exist that I haven't alluded to already, I'll go back earlier in the story and add what needs adding in a way that still flows with the story. I actually had a moment recently where I had to go back and add a mirror to a room, for plot purposes, and then I ended up re-formatting the entire scene to be more rich and descriptive.

I think that sometimes realizing one flaw will lead not only to patching up the holes, but also buffing and polishing the parts we already thought were completed.

I definitely do not wait around; the moment I see a problem, I want it fixed, because otherwise I might forget about it and lose track until an editor points out the obvious.

Mati wrote: "So I have a question to keep things going.

What do you do when you realize you have a plot flaw in your book? Do you immediately drop everything to sort it out? Outline? ..."

I make a note of it and keep moving forward. Sometimes it helps to have the issue in the back of my mind for a while. I usually don't have too big of issues, most of them easily sorted out in a good redraft.

Mati wrote: "So I have a question to keep things going.

What do you do when you realize you have a plot flaw in your book? Do you immediately drop everything to sort it out? Outline? Organize coffee with a fr..."

I'm with Thomas on this one. I immediately sort it out and find a place in the narrative where it will fit smoothly. There have been times, though, when I'm on a roll and I'll write myself a highlighted note in the middle of the scene I'm writing and go back when the scene is finished. That way, if I forget, I'll find it again later.

Jacqueline wrote: "Mati wrote: "So I have a question to keep things going.

What do you do when you realize you have a plot flaw in your book? Do you immediately drop everything to sort it out? Outline? Organize cof..."

I'll do both ways. Sometimes I go back and tinker, sometimes I make a note and just keep writing. I know I'll be doing major revisions in any case.

First line of my new novel, Death By Ice Cream, due out in late March:

“Curse it, Kitty, do something about that woman!”

Rebecca wrote: "First line of my new novel, Death By Ice Cream, due out in late March:

“Curse it, Kitty, do something about that woman!”"

Love it!