SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Finished A Sorcerer's Treason (my review) yesterday. I'm starting (and hope to finish today) the first book in the Great Book of Amber - Nine Princes in Amber.

I have started readind the Highwayman from R. Salvatore. Lets see if it is as good as Drizzt Trilogy...

I'm now reading 1984 by George Orwell, and also ocasioannly combining Dreaming Anastasia by Joy Preble.

after watching the first season of dead zone these last days, I decided to read the novel by stephen king again before watching the 2nd season..

The Dead Zone is one of my favorite King books, one of the few with a 'happy' ending. Insomnia is another.

I just finished The Enchantment Emporium a few days back, and just started Scalzi's Agent to the Stars. I also have a few mystery-thrillers I'm in the middle of.

In the midst of reading E.R.Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros I came across a copy of C.J.Cherryh's Cyteen which made me very happy as I didn't think I'd be able to find more of her books here. I just read her book Downbelow Station last year so this is an interesting and very different take on the whole situation. I also happened upon Lois McMaster Bujold's The Vor Game at the same place; it's the 1st Miles books I've seen around (finally!) but I'm making myself wait until I finish some work that's on a deadline.

Trice wrote: "In the midst of reading E.R.Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros I came across a copy of C.J.Cherryh's Cyteen which made me very happy as I didn't think I'd be able to find more ..."

I enjoyed Cyteen too, despite some lumpiness one gets used to with Cherryh (slow to get going, frenetic action at the climax). I'm more interested to know what you thought of The Worm Ouroboros, though. This was a demanding read--I realized that my literacy with regard to gemstones as well as mountaineering were sadly lacking--but ultimately very rewarding, I thought. Wish I could say the same about Mistress of Mistresses, which was every bit as taxing but without anywhere near the payoff. Still, if I stumble across the third in the series, I'll give it a chance.

I read "The Worm Ouroboros" several decades ago, after Tolkien and remember being greatly impressed. My maiin recollection at this time was struggling with archaic words, word structure and sentence structure. Since, I have had a lot more experience in reading Renaissance and Old English works, so it is probably time to re-read this seminal work.

I am wondering which edition to get. It is available as free e-books and for the Kindle. I am wondering if the Kindle's dictionary can handle the archaisms? If not I would rather have a real book, preferably a HC, but would also want one with the maps. Any suggestions about edition would be appreciated.

CJ Cherryh, is a favorite author of mine, and Cyteen and Downbelow station are among her best works, IMO. Then there is her incomparable Foreigner series. But, she has never disappointed in any of her novels.

Kernos wrote: "I am wondering which edition to get. It is available as free e-books and for the Kindle. I am wondering if the Kindle's dictionary can handle the archaisms? If not I would rather have a real book, preferably a HC, but would also want one with the maps. Any suggestions about edition would be appreciated."

I started out reading the book in the free e-text available all over the web, which is probably the same one they use for the Kindle, and I would advise against it, because it lacks the additional material like illustrations, pronounciation guide, the sonnet at the beginning, etc. It also has a lot of errors in it, which is the last thing one wants in a text where the language is challenging anyhow. I found the Barnes & Noble edition to be quite acceptable, and it's the easiest edition to find nowadays.

Thanks Edward. I will avoid the eBooks.

Edward wrote: "Trice wrote: "In the midst of reading E.R.Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros I came across a copy of C.J.Cherryh's Cyteen which made me very happy as I didn't think I'd be able to find more ..."

I enjoyed Cyteen too, despite some lumpiness one gets used to with Cherryh (slow to get going, frenetic action at the climax). I'm more interested to know what you thought of The Worm Ouroboros, though. This was a demanding read--I realized that my literacy with regard to gemstones as well as mountaineering were sadly lacking--but ultimately very rewarding, I thought. Wish I could say the same about Mistress of Mistresses, which was every bit as taxing but without anywhere near the payoff. Still, if I stumble across the third in the series, I'll give it a chance.
"

I've really been enjoying the language in The Worm Ouroboros. Admittedly some of the details like the gemstones or parts of the mountain climbing, I understand the general sense and haven't worried about exactness (going to recommend the book to a Lord of the Rings loving mountain climber I know and see what he thinks of those bits, along with the rest). My feeling was that there's not a lot of character development, but perhaps it's more a different kind of character development - the reader doesn't get a lot of insight into characters' thoughts, but you do discover who they are by their actions.

While I've been reading it, I've picked up a couple of modern fantasy novels for some lighter reading and truly, though I've enjoyed them, the writing is millions of miles behind. Some of his descriptions of even the simplest, most every day occurances have made me pause in consideration and true enjoyment.

I keep wishing for a map to follow their progress round about and back and forth, but oh well.

One of the aspects of the book that is bothering me in a couple different ways is the different lands/peoples. There is the lack of differences between some of the peoples though they're called by names that seem to signify differences in the type of being they are e.g. Witchland, Demonland, Pixieland. The other bother for me is the complete disregard the demons had for the prince of Impland who travels with them, who is a different kind of creature, but definitely fits the whole idea of 2nd class citizen at the very least.

I think, in comparison to Lord of the Rings (for example) a weakness is the lack of one purpose or strand through the book... or maybe simply the lack of a stronger purpose. It has quest in it, but it's really about this long struggle against a power that claims sovereignty over the world. Now that I write that I think it's funny that the purpose doesn't seem stronger, but perhaps it just doesn't seem cohesive somehow.

About 80 pages left. Not sure if I can obtain copies of his other books at present, but will definitely look into it in the future.

Trice wrote: "Edward wrote: "Trice wrote: "In the midst of reading E.R.Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros I came across a copy of C.J.Cherryh's Cyteen which made me very happy as I didn't th..."

Trice - if you are gaining appreciation for more lush detail in your reading, and you want a list of authors who write with more depth, say so. There's a lovely bunch of contemporary writers to pick from who spin a great tale and set a gorgeouse tone to it.

Trice wrote: "My feeling was that there's not a lot of character development, but perhaps it's more a different kind of character development - the reader doesn't get a lot of insight into characters' thoughts, but you do discover who they are by their actions. ..."

Yes, the characters are more the fixed types of epic than the evolving characters we expect from a novel. I also agree with your remarks about the different peoples lacking any real difference. The real difference in the book seems to be between colonizing and colonized peoples, as it were. Eddison's politics were already regarded in his day as being somewhat suspect.

Regarding the difficulties of the language--not the Spenserian dialect, which isn't a problem for me, but the jargon in the descriptions and the mountaineering terms--it's one of the major reasons I'd love to see this made into a film someday, with plenty of CGI, but that seems hardly likely!

Janny wrote: "Trice - if you are gaining appreciation for more lush detail in your reading, and you want a list of authors who write with more depth, say so. There's a lovely bunch of contemporary writers to pick from who spin a great tale and set a gorgeous tone to it. ..."

I'd certainly appreciate such a list.

Edward wrote: "Janny wrote: "Trice - if you are gaining appreciation for more lush detail in your reading, and you want a list of authors who write with more depth, say so. There's a lovely bunch of contemporary ..."

Here's a list of author who are great storytellers, have exceptional characters, and who are also poetic stylists:

Patricia A. McKillip
She writes standalones, mostly. I highly recommend most everything, but particularly liked Od Magic for its lovely, gentle take. This author is not gritty or known for violence.

Barbara Hambly
Excellent characters, gorgeous turns of phrase, good plots with solid endings. Her Suncross duology is a nice one to start with to get the feel of her style.

Guy Gavriel Kay - excellent writer, very fleshed out characters, with many standalones to choose from. I liked his The Lions of al-Rassan the best of all his works.

If you like lush writing and detail at the extreme end of the scale, some people like Cecelia Dart-Thornton.

For beautiful characterization, good plot, solid writing and nice detail, too, Martha Wells' The Death of the Necromancer was extremely well done.

I might also look at R.A. MacAvoy.

These are all fantasy authors. If you want to branch out into SF, look at R.M. Meluch, Katie Waitman, and Kristine Smith, off the bat.

Janny wrote: "Here's a list of author who are great storytellers, have exceptional characters, and who are also poetic stylists:..."

Thank you for this list. I'm familiar with some of these authors, having read some, some having been recommended to me by others, others were completely new to me.

Janny wrote: "Edward wrote: "Janny wrote: "Trice - if you are gaining appreciation for more lush detail in your reading, and you want a list of authors who write with more depth, say so. There's a lovely bunch o..."

Janny, thank you for mentioning Katie Waitman. I hadn't previously heard of her. I put
The Merro Tree on hold. It sounds wonderful.

Shomeret wrote: "Janny wrote: "Edward wrote: "Janny wrote: "Trice - if you are gaining appreciation for more lush detail in your reading, and you want a list of authors who write with more depth, say so. There's a ..."

The Merro Tree is absolutely gorgeous. Hope you enjoy it!

I couldn't overstress how much I loved the language in the book. I'm a bit amazed at how much of import was in the last 80 pages. I was really enjoying the way it was ending...and then Eddison throws that last bit at you and I seriously thought he needed a good talking to, or someone to argue with him about it.........but at the last word I had to nod in understanding. Still a bit in disbelief at what seemed initially a bit out of character for the honorable Lord Juss, but it fits a part of who he is, and, in a certain way, makes the story and central theme somewhat fuller.

Edward, I almost think the story has too much back and forth and round about to be faithfully made into a film. I'd be worried they'd kill it like a couple relatively recent sci fi/fantasy projects that've been done.

Thanks for the list Janny - I'm familiar with some of the authors as well and will look into the ones I hadn't previously heard of.

You're welcome for the list.

I read pretty widely - I enjoy a great story, foremost, but I get a particular thrill when the language is also inventive and beautiful and the backdrop provides richness and depth.

There are times that I feel this facet of storytelling has (recently) become a bit marginalized. It could be fun to have a thread that discusses books like these - where story strength is important, but the style/creative use of language is also a contributory experience. In a society turning toward texting and twitter, giving some attention to these books could open new awareness of some truly great stuff.

On R. M. Meluch - her very recent stuff is space opera - very colorful and fast take fun. She did earlier work in a much more serious vein. I'd recommend Jerusalem Fire very highly if you can find a copy.

There are books and authors who work with style and insight alone (at the expense of story) - none of them are on that list above. If you like poetic language and sharp insights that lean toward the esoteric/reflective experience, and don't necessarily combine to create a cohesive plot (but reward on another level), you might check out the work of M. John Harrison

Janny wrote: "On R. M. Meluch - her very recent stuff is space opera - very colorful and fast take fun. She did earlier work in a much more serious vein. I'd recommend Jerusalem Fire very highly if you can find a copy."

My personal favorites of hers are Sovereign and The Queen's Squadron. While Jerusalem Fire was a good read the ambiguity of the central character and the intolerant theocracy he served made it a less enjoyable novel. I should re-read it, I guess, since I only read it once and didn't like it then, and have forgotten a lot of it. Her current work seemed more poorly written to me. I read the first two of her current series, but when I opened the fourth, it had a one-sentence-per-paragraph style that was very unpleasant. The first Meluch book I stopped reading in the middle.

Trice wrote: "I was really enjoying the way it was ending...and then Eddison throws that last bit at you and I seriously thought he needed a good talking to, or someone to argue with him about it.........I almost think the story has too much back and forth and round about to be faithfully made into a film. ..."

Yes, the ending was quite a surprise, but I think that this was what really gave meaning to the title, if you catch my drift. Having read , which is a rather tougher read than Ouroboros, by way of warning, I think I can say that this theme is virtually the only thing that really ties the two books together.

Regarding a film version, it would probably be dreadful, but I'd just like to see the world of the book, I wouldn't much care if they mangled the substance. Perhaps that makes me a bad reader!