The History Book Club discussion

I just completed reading about the " Second Crusade of Saint Louis IX.

On Mar 24, 1267-Louis IX and his brothers- Charles of Anjou, Alphonse of Poitiers, and King James of Argo(1213-76)& King Henery III of England(1216-72), joined Saint Louis IX on taking the cross-Second Crusade. St Louis Second Crusade was better organized than his first crusade. On 1270 Saint Louis IX died of an illness. His brother Charles of Anjou negotiated a truce of ten years and ten months with the sultan of Egypt. Unable to do anymore Charles returned back to England.

This second crusade was also an amazing attemp to reconquer the holy lands!

I continue to read: "The Fall Of The Crusader States"

Thomas F. Madden

Regulo wrote: "message 95"
I agree. But we all have a chance to grow and one time start thinking for ourselves. Depending on where it is you're growing up, education and how attached you are to your culture you still might develop a true personality (more or less) independent of tradition and temper. If you have/take the chance to start looking at things from different perspectives, religion - or better the human interpretation of things - probably won't make you want to hurt others just for the sake of your version.

Andre..I think you raise an interesting point about having a chance to start looking at things from different perspectives (whether it be religion or life). So often the peoples having these rigid perspectives never had that opportunity....but sadly there have been many others who have (like the recent attempted airline terrorist for example) and this has not made a difference.

I wonder what is it about these folks that makes them want to kill themselves and others in the name of their faith or their views. In terms of the Crusades; these same locations were not of the Muslim faith prior to an occupying invasion. Sadly, that logic has been lost in certain parts of the world. They seem to see "everybody else" as being the occupier or the invader and not themselves. Their stories of their warrier invaders are always embellished and glorified as almost being mystic in quality and this folklore seems to be handed down from generation to generation.

I do hope that generally speaking Andre that expanding a person's horizon may in fact stop many from these acts. But unfortunately it seems some of the new recruits seem to be the complete opposite...those who are financially able and ones who have traveled a lot; lived and even have gone to school in other countries including western ones. How do you explain this lack of attachment to their new surroundings or the people and countries they also represent.

Very troubling.

Bentley, I agree, so very troubling.
Traveling and connecting to other cultures doesn't always seem to widen the perspective. Western culture - as well as any other - sure has some dark sides. I can understand people trying to hold on to their own/safe/known traditions or beliefs to make it through.
The problem starts with either one trying to tell the other what is right and wrong/ and or to save the other from falling - whatever that means.
Roman culture was very open to all kinds of religions, until the Christians started telling the others they were wrong. Same goes for the Muslims. They were far more tolerant than any Christian society at that time.
I can't help but wonder about both sides of today's conflict in Israel, where the religious fanatics keep saying that the land is theirs by tradition. They all go back a certain time until they find the moment their ancestors occupied the area.
What would happen if we would step back further in time. WHose would it be then? Just imagine some European starting working the same theory over here...
Add a little temperament and pride and off we go ... again. (Just for a second imagine Berlusconi telling Merkel to @#$ off...)
The way I see it a lot of people are just being used by big players out for power or money or both. It has been like that for thousands of years. Change seems hard to come by...

Ah, I almost forgot: another interesting book on and around the Crusades:
James Wasserman: The Templars and the Assassins

James Wasserman

James Wasserman

Just as an FYI...don't forget to add the author. It looks like he has a tremendous number of other good books.

Regulo wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "
Another new title due out in early 2010 by a respected author covering the Crusades is:



Hi Regulo, I decided to order a copy of each, I couldn't help myself:) I am currently reading about the Second Crusade.

by Jonathan Phillips

This book is not as easy to read as his book on the Fourth Crusade, very detailed in regards to efforts of the Church to start the Crusade, the preperations, diplomacy used, etc. I am half way through the book and the armies of Louis (France) & Conrad (Germany) haven't left Europe yet!

Hi folks, just to throw a book into this conversation that may answer some of the questions or provoke more discussion:

Hugh Kennedy

Publishers blurb:
"Today's Arab world was created at breathtaking speed. Whereas the Roman Empire took over 200 years to reach its fullest extent, the Arab armies overran the whole Middle East, North Africa and Spain within a generation. They annhilated the thousand-year-old Persian Empire and reduced the Byzantine Empire to little more than a city-state based around Constantinople. Within a hundred years of the Prophet's death, Muslim armies destroyed the Visigoth kingdom of Spain, and crossed the Pyrenees to occupy southern France. This is the first popular English language account of this astonishing remaking of the political and religious map of the world. Hugh Kennedy's sweeping narrative reveals how the arab armies conquered almost everything in their path. One of the few academic historians with a genuine talent for story telling, he offers a compelling mix of larger-than-life characters, battles, treachery and the clash of civilizations."

Reviews:
"An exciting story gets extra colour thanks to Kennedy's ease with the sources" - THE SCOTSMAN "The story of the Arab conquests is a dramatic one and Kennedy makes a boldly ambitious attempt to tell it" - THE SUNDAY TIMES "Mr Kennedy tells a remarkable tale with skill and authority" - THE ECONOMIST "The Great Arab Conquests is history at its most vivid and enthralling. a truly magnificent achievement." - THE NEW STATESMEN "fascinating and well-written" - THE GUARDIAN "a superb history" - THE DAILY TELEGRAPH

I've decided to read Hugh Kennedy's book "The Great Arab Conquests" in the hope that it may provide answers to a number of the issues raised in this forum. The nature of the Muslim conquests, which preceded the Crusades, must be necessarily understood if we really want to have a decent and comprehensive idea of the Crusades and the effects those had on the region and the people. I think this book offers a fair and unbiased history showing that although the lands and people of the Middle East were conquered by the Arab Muslims it was not a case of slaughter, carnage and forced conversions as sometimes presented by others. - Just 'food for thought'.

I agree with your premise Aussie Rick...what came first the chicken or the egg. Yes, but were the Arab Muslims occupiers themselves...of course, they were and they fail to recognize that. They tried to go back to an area heritage giving them rights which they were never given in my way of thinking. The Persians, Byzantines, Jews and many others preceded them in these areas. Why are the Christians more of an occupier than they are? The answer is simple...they aren't but when religion is involved they cannot see the origin of the argument only the fact that Islam has taken hold now in that area (simply because of their occupation)..and in their minds that is how it should be. It is as if one is trying to use a logical argument with a region or a way of thought which defies logic. I think folks are sometimes spitting into the wind. Be that as it may, the Kennedy book seems like an amazing one and hopefully will provide some initial answers or at least what Kennedy views as some. I really wish there was a quick fix for that area or a lasting one.

PS...Not to say that an Arab historian like Kennedy would not be worth reading..I think this book sounds fascinating and I have added it to my already very long to read list. (smile)

I just completed reading about:"The Fall of The Cusaders States." The book on The New Concise History of the Crusade!

Al-Ashraf Khalil arrived at Acre with the largest single force ever assemble to attack the Christain city of Acre.

On May 18, 1291 the Muslims breached the city inner wall and swarmed inside. The battle was house-to-house fighting. The Slaughter was immense. By evening the enite city was in Muslim hands. The loss of the crusader kingdom was taken hard in Europe. "The End"

I just completed reading about: "The Transformation of The Military Orders"

There was a lot of finger pointing after the fall of the crusade states. The lion's share of criticism fell upon the military orders. Had the militay orders enriched the holy land or just themselves? Was it the fighting between the Templars and the Hospitallers taht weakened the crusader kingdom? Many wondered argued why needing military orders with the extinction of the latin east. Fighting among each other began. A Philip IV during 1291-1311 began confiscating Italian bankers and their wealth, claiming wealth and property from the Jews in France. The Knights Templars and the Hospitaller were being maybe destroyed. "The End"

I just completed reading about: "The Rise of The Ottoman Turks"

The rise and power of the Ottoman Turks became stronger. By 1354 the Turks occupied and controlled Bulgaria, Greece, and Constantinople was completely surrounded. Now the Christan were called upon to defend their own lands in Europe. By 1378, Christendom was split between two popes, one in Avignon and one in Rome. Time were changing. "The End"

Thomas F. Madden

I just completed reading: "The Crusade of Nicopolis."

On 1395, King Sigismund of Hungry (1387-1437) sent desperate plea for assistance to the french. French and Burgundian knights rendezvoused to join Sigismund armies on 1394 at Buda. As they move forward to Nicopolis Sultan Bayazid I, set up an ambush and destroying entire Sigismunds army. Crusade of Nicopolis was devastating to western Europe. "The End"

Thomas F. Madden

Regulo,

You have been extremely busy....I really never realized the extent of the Crusades and/or how many there really were.

Regulo wrote: "I just completed reading: "The Crusade of Nicopolis."

On 1395, King Sigismund of Hungry 91387-1437) sent desperate plea for assistance to the french. French and Burgundian knights rendezvoused t..."

Hi Regulo, like Bentley has said, you have been very busy. I take it you enjoyed the book OK? I am about the third way through "The Great Arab Conquests" and I have found it to be very interesting. The author has taken great pains to present a balanced view of this period of history and has done a good job in presenting the facts in a enjoyable and readable narrative.

by Hugh Kennedy

I have just completed reading the entire book of: "The New Concise History of The Crusades." I do have to confess in saying, that the book has been very educational and enjoyable to read. I actually learn something! But I have many questions to Ask & Share?

In CONCLUSION to this book readings, Since September 11, 2001, the question has often been asked, How did the crusades lead to the present conflict in the Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan War?"

It is said that for some Islamist feel that the West, and particular the United States, is prosecuting a new crusade, one that is being fought in many fronts. The Global War on terror! Due to American influence and military bases, all over the Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan are discribed as the return of the crusade forces.

Some say, it is not the crusades, then, that lead to the attack of September 11.

I will begin to read another book called: "Arab Historians of The Crusades." I want to see and study their perspective view of the crusades as an enemies point of view as an Arab and Muslim towards the Europeans this time. This should be an interest reading! I'd like to compare other books reading and thoughts!

Please...Share any comments!

Thomas F. Madden
Francesco Gabrieli

Regulo wrote: "I have just completed reading the entire book of: "The New Concise History of The Crusades." I do have to confess in saying, that the book has been very educational and enjoyable to read. I actuall..."

Hi Regulo, you pose some interesting questions. When did we start seeing militant Muslims spreading terror and destruction, 5 years, 10 years or 50 years ago? What was the catalyst for that event? Was it always part of the make up of the Middle East, did the West have a role in these events due to the division of the Arab world after WW1, was it something before that or something after WW2? Was it due to the fact that we forced a state of Israel on the Palestinians?

So many questions but I think we have to agree it didn’t just start by itself and it won’t finish until we work out why it occurred. I find the book and the movie “Charlie Wilson’s War” interesting when you look at what role the West played once the mujahideen had forced the Russians out of Afghanistan, did we allow the taliban in due to our failure in supplying the basic necessities to re-build a nation?

I have recently purchased a copy of; “Islam’s War Against the Crusaders”, maybe this may supply some of the background and reasons for the events in today’s world as should you book; “Arab Historians of The Crusades".

by George Crile III

by W. B. Bartlett

Regulo, Rick, some very interesting points there!
For anybody who's also reading French, I just started this one:

Dominique Baudis
A novelization of a few decisive years in the life of Raimond de Toulouse written by the ex-mayor of that same city. (the man can write!)

I am currently reading “The Great Arab Conquests” and I came across this section in the chapter on the conquest of Egypt. Below is a description of the fate of Menas, the brother of the Coptic patriarch Benjamin:

"First he was tortured by fire 'until the fat dropped down both his sides to the ground’. Next his teeth were pulled out. Then he was placed in a sack full of sand. At each stage he was offered his life if he would accept the decrees of the Council of Chalcedon, at each stage he refused. Finally he was taken seven bow-shots out to sea and drowned. Benjamin’s biographer left no doubt who the real victors were. ‘It was not they who were victorious over Menas, that champion of the faith, but Menas who by Christian patience overcame then’. “

Interestingly enough Menas torturers were Christians from Constantinople. Just an example of how complex the situation was in the Middle East prior to and during the period of the Crusades.

by Hugh Kennedy

Wow...when religion is involved.there does not seem to be anything that man will not endure.

Odd isn't it...that kind of torture would break most men and they would plead for their life.

Was this story...the story of Menas (Minas) also known as Saint Christopher?

Bentley wrote: "Wow...when religion is involved.there does not seem to be anything that man will not endure.

Odd isn't it...that kind of torture would break most men and they would plead for their life.

Was th..."

Hi Bentley, the book has not mentioned or stated that Menas was Saint Christopher. Maybe he was just one of the many martyrs to their faith in the turbulent times of the Middle East during this period of history. I am always amazed of what people will endure in the name of God.

Yes - I like to think I have a good imagination, but when I try to conceive of a God of love and kindness - like nearly every sect claims to have - that nevertheless wants extremes of cruelty carried out or endured in His (or Her/Their/Its) name, it leaves me stumped.

Hi James, I agree with you, I always think of the Crusade against the Cathars in Languedoc, France. I recall reading in one book that when the French forces were about to storm one of the fortified towns, the commander turned to a priest and asked him how could they distinguish the heretics from the Christians, the priest said; "Kill them all and God will work it out" (or something along those lines).

True. People tend to think that awful line 'Kill'em all and let God sort'em out' dates from the Vietnam war, but it goes back a lot farther.
It's odd but unmistakable, too, that when you compare holy wars between people of very different cultures and faiths on the one hand, and people of closely related cultures and faiths on the other, the latter wars tend to be much more vicious in the way they're carried out. Same with civil wars compared to wars between different nations. We seem to hate people who are just a little different from us more than we hate those who are really alien.

That is an interesting idea James. When I was traveling through China I noticed how awful the Chinese treated and spoke to each other; but they were much better to me..in fact most of the time quite gracious. I did not find them to be as gracious and as lovely as the Japanese. And I have to admit that after spending time in Japan; I found the people to be so lovely and they could not do enough for you. So odd in comparison to all of the reports of the Japanese in World War II and especially in terms of what they did to the Chinese. To this day, the Chinese people do not like the Japanese and remember the invasion as if it were yesterday or in terms of the stories heard in their families.

Maybe that is why our own extended families have such drama. (smile)

Isn't it funny, all these people acting "in the name of God".
If they would truly believe in anything close to a God, who are they as mere nitwit mortals to claim having spoken to or be in contact with God.
How about just a tiny little bit of humility?!?
Stevie Wonder's song "Heaven Is 10 Zillion Light Years Away" to me says it all.
His answer to the question "Where is your God?": "It's taken Him so long cause we've got so far to come."

I had the same impression in Japan initially, but after a while, I noticed that their graciousness was very selective - they were indeed nice to us Americans, and to other Japanese people who they perceived as having status or power, but if they saw someone as lacking those attributes, they often treated that person like dirt. When I got more of a sampling of Japanese attitudes toward other countries and their peoples - and to minorities in their own country, like the Ainu and the Okinawans - I saw more clearly that the Japanese culture is one of the most racist and arrogant on the planet. They have treated other people barbarically in their wars because they see anyone who isn't Japanese as a lesser being.

I'm with you on that subject, Andre - I like a bumper sticker I saw that said, "I know your God is man-made if He hates all the same people you do." It's funny how people who profess to be doing God's will always find that God tells them to do what they want to do.

André wrote: "Isn't it funny, all these people acting "in the name of God".
If they would truly believe in anything close to a God, who are they as mere nitwit mortals to claim having spoken to or be in contact..."

Great analogy Andre.

James wrote: "I had the same impression in Japan initially, but after a while, I noticed that their graciousness was very selective - they were indeed nice to us Americans, and to other Japanese people who they ..."

You know James I never experienced that...but I never went to Okinawa either. In the wars, they were legendary for being barbaric however. I always found it hard to reconcile the two views as being the same people.

That bumper sticker says it all - sadly I might add.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I am currently reading “The Great Arab Conquests” and I came across this section in the chapter on the conquest of Egypt. Below is a description of the fate of Menas, the brother of the Coptic patr..."

Sorry for not responding to this discussion earlier! What total faith Menas had in god, in order to do what he did...incredible!

I am reading the book called:"Arab Historians of the Crusades" and they mentioned that both civilizations between Christianty and Islam had a great deal in common during the crusades. I have to somehow question this statement!

They were founded on similar attitudes of mind and religious concepts, and it was their common struggle for universality that brought them into a conflict and drove them to fanaticism during the Crusades.

Therefore, we should look at the aspect of the situation of Islam and take a closer look at the enemy's attitudes and ideals, his way of life and methods of warfare.

Why during times of war men do the unthinkable to others?

Francesco Gabrieli

Hi fellows, sorry about the delay in joining in on this very interesting discussion, wrong side of the globe I suppose. A lot of very interesting points raised here and I fully agree with James’s comment about; "holy wars between people of very different cultures and faiths on the one hand, and people of closely related cultures and faiths on the other, the latter wars tend to be much more vicious in the way they're carried out”. So many examples from history could be shown to highlight this fact raised by James.

Bentley’s comment about the Chinese/Japanese relationship; “To this day, the Chinese people do not like the Japanese and remember the invasion as if it were yesterday or in terms of the stories heard in their families.” is very similar to how many older Australians view the Japanese, my grandfather and his brother both served in WW2 and fought against the Japanese in New Guinea and both hated them with a passion, to the point that neither would ever even eat Chinese food!

Regulo I can understand the comment made in your book that you are currently reading; “they mentioned that both civilizations between Christianity and Islam had a great deal in common during the crusades.” I think that is directed more towards their passion and faith that drove both sides to undertake their mission of conquest and how both sides dealt with those who were not of the same faith, goes back to James’s point about holy and/or civil wars.

Rick..interesting about your grandfather and your uncle. That is the one thing that both the Japanese and the Chinese cannot stand. Neither wants to be mistaken for the other.

And of course Japanese food is not the same as Chinese food. But I can see how they decided that they would eat nothing that resembled it (lol). But you know I have heard that a lot about that generation. I guess what they experienced they can never forget.

I can't tell you how many times in China...I was greeted with such enthusiasm and asked to pose with babies, etc. And they always told me how much they like America and then offered in the same breath..."It is the Japanese we do not like." And then they made this curled up nose face like they were smelling something awful.

At the same time, I remember the graciousness and the loveliness with which I was treated in Japan. I was ordering lunch for a large group and I was amazed that the little restaurant closed down so they could help me carry all of the lunches back. And they refused a tip.

Then there is my love for Kyoto and the ancient capitals and this lovely person who when I was confused about which train and car that I should be getting on...missed their own train and insisted waiting on the platform with me until my own arrived and then walked and got me situated on my own train and seat. Absolutely lovely. So that is why I have this problem reconciling the two. I absolutely loved and love Japan.

Yet the stories...the unbelievable stories.

Rick, Bentley, I once did a story on the Royal Hospital Pensioners in London. War was a thing that had to be done, was the opinion of most of them. They had no problem with the Germans or any other people the Kingdom has fought over the centuries, that is except the Japanese and the SS. Old stories die hard. But people change, some even learn.

Very true Andre...everybody had to move on and forgive and forget otherwise they get paralyzed in the past.

It would probably help a lot with the process of forgiveness and reconciliation if the Japanese would, as the Germans have, admit that their leadership and their military committed atrocities during the war and try to make some amends - but they have always portrayed themselves as victims. The way they teach history to their children, they edit out the atrocities like the Rape of Nanking or the way they forced thousands of women from Korea and other subjugated countries into sexual slavery in military brothels, and portray themselves as the victims of a war of aggression by the U.S. That doesn't square with either the fact that they started the war by invading China several years before they brought the U.S. into it by attacking Pearl Harbor, or the fact that rather than treating Japan as an addition to some non-existent American empire, we helped them regain their political and economic independence after the war.
The encounter that rankles me personally took place at the memorial to the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor. When I was visiting that memorial, there was a large group of Japanese tourists there - for me as for the other Americans present, it was a somber place and experience, but the Japanese tourists were loud and boisterous, laughing and shouting. I was furious, and the other Americans present looked pretty unhappy too. My then-wife stopped me from confronting them - I wanted to go over and yell at them that this was, among other things, a mass grave, and they needed to show some respect. I wish now that I had gone ahead and confronted them. Remembering that still angers me almost twenty years later.

So very true, James. I agree completely. I often think pride (of what I never understand) is one of the most frequent causes for conflict.
It will take any nation several generations to accept and get over atrocities committed by family/earlier generations, to help heal the wounds of the suffering and to deal with the once responsible.
Here in Germany there now is a discussion about some woman who still refuses to accept the Oder/Neisse border as the official border between Poland and Germany although she is a member of the board of directors for a new museum dealing with international displacement in and after the war. She also heads a club of German expatriates who were thrown out of what is now Poland (and parts of Russia etc.).
The problem with this woman is she just refuses to look back in time to what was before they got there. Any part of this earth once "belonged" to someone else but that she does not understand (- nor of course that any of us will ever truly possess any piece).
As to Germans dealing with the past, lately I often feel disturbed when I watch documentaries about the atrocities committed during the war in which they keep speaking about Nazis, making them sound like freaks from out of space, when in fact they mean Germans. After all it weren't just the Nazis who committed the crimes.
As I said, it takes time.

Hi folks, A lot of very good points made in this discussion, especially those made by James and Andre. Its amazing how the Crusades can take us so far in history and still be relevant! However maybe our discussion has gone a little bit off on a tangent?

Has anyone read much on the Albigensian Crusade or the war against the Cathars in France? I find that an interesting period of history, anybody else?

by Stephen O'Shea

by Jonathan Sumption

This period in history highlights the cruelty of man against others, even of those sharing the same God but a different faith.

Just added those two books to my to-get list - thanks! I'd heard some pretty broad-brush stuff about those crusades, but not much. That type of conflict is fascinating in terms of the psychology of it as well as the social/political/military.

James wrote: "Just added those two books to my to-get list - thanks! I'd heard some pretty broad-brush stuff about those crusades, but not much. That type of conflict is fascinating in terms of the psychology of..."

Hi James, I enjoyed both books although I think my favourite was Stephen O'Shea's account. There is one other book that I have on this subject but I have not read it yet so can't comment on its contents:

by Zoe Oldenbourg
About the author:
Zoe Oldenbourg was born in St Petersburg in 1916 and was educated at the Lycee Moliere and the Sorbonne in Paris. The author of a number of outstanding historical novels, including The World is Not Enough and The Cornerstone, which won the Prix Femina in 1953, her historical works include Catherine of Russia and Massacre at Montsegur.

Hi guys, above is my first attempt at 'Assisting Moderator - Military History', scores from 1 to 5 will be accepted and Bentley will judge if I have passed or failed :)

Yep, Rick, right in both accounts; slightly drifting off and the Crusade against the Cathars.
I mentioned this one before and although fiction it's extremely well researched and written (in French) by Toulouse's ex-mayor:
Dominique Baudis

Has someone read the books from JJean Markaleabout the crusades and Cathars?

Patrik...do you have the names of specific books that you are referring to.

Please list their book covers and as you noted above the author's link. I have not personally read Markalea.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi guys, above is my first attempt at 'Assisting Moderator - Military History', scores from 1 to 5 will be accepted and Bentley will judge if I have passed or failed :)"

Of course you have passed Rick...you are making me laugh.

Give yourselves a 5, Bentley and Rick! We appreciate your work to make this conversation available to the rest of us.

Thanks James..

James wrote: "Give yourselves a 5, Bentley and Rick! We appreciate your work to make this conversation available to the rest of us."

Hi James, thanks for that, I'm still on my 'learners'! I really enjoy the fact that people from different walks of life and from around the world can get together and dicuss good books like this.

I was very interested in the book that Regulo is currently reading; "Arab Historians of the Crusades" but wanted to try and get a copy of "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes".

by Francesco Gabrieli

by Amin Maalouf
Publisher blurb:
"The author has combed the works of contemporary Arab chronicles of the Crusades, eyewitnesses and often participants. He retells their story and offers insights into the historical forces that shape Arab and Islamic consciousness today."

Bentley wrote: "Patrik...do you have the names of specific books that you are referring to.

Please list their book covers and as you noted above the author's link. I have not personally read Markalea."

Hello Bentley
Sorry for that, I was asking regarding the following book:

Montsegur et l'enigme cathare

He is more known for his books regarding the Grail and the celts

Thank you Patrik...you mentioned the author earlier and provided the link but in the future look at how Aussie Rick cites books and authors - message 147 for example.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi folks, A lot of very good points made in this discussion, especially those made by James and Andre. Its amazing how the Crusades can take us so far in history and still be relevant! However mayb..."

Hi Rick and everyone!
I do.
I'm particularly interested in the Middle Ages and the Crusades are something you simply cannot ignore. In fact they've always managed to hypnotize me in some way.

I'm still to find time to read through some books about Crusades in the Middle East and Europe I've been purchasing these past few years and you've already mentioned.
by Jonathan Sumption has been on my Amazon whislist for quite some time now.

In these past months I've been making an effort to read through this one (see bellow)I'm finding very interesting (a lot of details), although it's been a bit hard to keep up with all the stories behind all the characters.

by Rene Weis

Has anyone tried this one?