The History Book Club discussion

Manuela wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi folks, A lot of very good points made in this discussion, especially those made by James and Andre. Its amazing how the Crusades can take us so far in history and still be ..."

Hi Manuela, I have a copy of this book sitting in my library but must confess I have not attempted to read it yet!

by Rene J.A. Weis

I will be interested to hear what your final opinion is on the book :)

I too find the Crusades such an interesting period of history and have recently ordered two new books on the subject.

by Jonathan Phillips
Publishers blurb:
"Holy war: Christianity versus Islam. Brutality, greed, honour, chivalry, the clink of chain mail, the clatter of hooves, and the call of the muezzin. Such are the stock ingredients of the Crusades. But to what extent do the stereotypes fit with the reality? In his remarkable new book, Jonathan Phillips explores this conflict of ideas, beliefs and cultures and shows both the contradictions and the diversity of holy war: friendships and alliances between Christians and Muslims; triumphs of diplomacy rather than the sword; the launch of crusades against Christians, and calls for jihads against Muslims. Phillips draws on contemporary writings - on chronicles, songs, sermons, travel diaries, letters, financial accounts and peace treaties - to throw a brilliant new lights on people and events we thought we knew well: the bloody conquest of Jerusalem in the First Crusade; the titanic struggle between Richard the Lionheart and Saladin; the breathtaking naivety of the Children's Crusade; and the ruthless suppression of the Knight's Templar. Less familiar but no less central are the stories of the intimidating and astute politician, Queen Melisende of Jerusalem; the fiery preacher, Al-Sulami; the Arab-speaking excommunicate and Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick II. Over time the Crusades were directed against a variety of opponents: not only Muslims in the Middle East but against Cathar heretics, political enemies of the papacy, the Mongols, pagan tribes of northern Europe, and the Ottoman Turks. Although the notion of fighting for one's faith fell into disrepute in the Enlightenment, in a final chapter Jonathan Phillips traces the crusading impulse up to the present day - to George W. Bush's characterization of the war on terrorism as a crusade. Vivid, original and illuminating, "Holy Warriors" provides an unparalleled account of one of the great cultural, political and religious movements in world history."

by Thomas Asbridge
Publishers blurb:
"In the eleventh century, a vast Christian army, summoned to holy war by the pope, rampaged through the Muslim world of the eastern Mediterranean, seizing possession of Jerusalem, a city revered by both faiths. Over the two hundred years that followed this First Crusade, Islam and the West fought for dominion of the Holy Land, clashing in a succession of chillingly brutal wars, both firm in the belief that they were at God's work. For the first time, this book tells the story of this epic struggle from the perspective of both Christians and Muslims, reconstructing the experiences and attitudes of those on either side of the conflict. Mixing pulsing narrative and piercing insight, it exposes the full horror, passion and barbaric grandeur of the crusading era. One of the world's foremost authorities on the subject, Thomas Asbridge offers a vivid and penetrating history of the crusades, setting a new standard for modern scholarship. Drawing upon painstaking original research and an intimate knowledge of the Near East, he uncovers what drove Muslims and Christians alike to embrace the ideals of jihad and crusade, revealing how these holy wars reshaped the medieval world and why they continue to echo in human memory to this day."

Hi Rick,

I promise to let you know my final opinion on the book, but it might take a while, I had to take a break, as these aren't the best of times for me. For the time being I can add that some passages of the book are close to be real page turners while others, well, are really far from it as if you were going through a massive list of details.

As for by Jonathan Phillips and by Thomas Asbridge, I've spotted them already too and added them to my whishlist but the reviews I came across didn't led me to buy them yet.

I'm also looking at by Christopher Tyerman as I have another book by him that I found very entertaining and easy to read (I still need to add the edition I bought), but the reviews aren't the best either.

I suppose I'm very critical when it comes to the Reconquista movement in the Iberian Peninsula. As Portuguese it kind of upsets me that some authors write about the Spanish Reconquista as if it encompasses the whole movement of Reconquista in the Iberian Peninsula. Talk to me about Leon, Castille, Aragon, Navarre and that's fine, but Spain didn't become Spain up till the 15th century, while Portugal has been a country since the mid 12th Century and did take part in the movement. Christopher Tyerman writes of an Iberian Peninsula movement, by the way, which could probably led me to be a bit more willing to get more of his books.

I was wondering if you could advise me on any books that include this particular movement, including the Charlemagne campaigns in Iberia?

I have a book by Régine Pernoud I still couldn't find here (and while looking I noticed there are 2 profiles for this French historian), about the Reconquista, and although it is quite short it's probably the best account of the Reconquista movement I could find so far.

Hi Manuele,

Régine Pernoud is terrific, especially her books about Jeanne d'Arc.
Best
André

Andre, are they all in French, if not, if you could add the book covers for some you particularly like plus the author's photo or link, that would be great.

And of course also note if these are non fiction and/or historical fiction which would also be helpful.

Bentley wrote: "Andre, are they all in French, if not, if you could add the book covers for some you particularly like plus the author's photo or link, that would be great. "

Bentley, how come I just thought you might ask that? lol..





etc.etc.
Régine Pernoud

These are - as you can see - all in French - but I'm certain some have been translated. I will add them when I find the time to see which is which.

I am predictable (smile)

That wouldn't make you such a good candidate for the SAS,CIA etc.

True...they would know right away what I was going to do. (grin)

Manuela wrote: "Hi Rick,

I promise to let you know my final opinion on the book, but it might take a while, I had to take a break, as these aren't the best of times for me. For the time being I can add that some ..."


Hi Manuela,

I have just received my copies of those two new books on the Crusades and have a hardback copy of “Gods War” by Christopher Tyerman although I haven’t attempted to read it yet since it’s a massive volume and I will need to take it on holidays to get through it.
In regards to some good books on Reconquista movement in the Iberian Peninsula I can suggest that the books below cover some of that ground in a general nature. The first two I have read and really enjoyed but the third title I have not read but it appears to be more specific and may cover exactly what you want.

by Paul Fregosi
Product Description:
Jihad, the Muslim holy war against Christians and others, has raged for 1300 years with bloody conquests in Europe dating from campaigns to convert the infidels in the 7th century to today's random acts of terrorism in the name of Allah. Yet this huge unrecorded 'hole' in European history has been censored and stifled by political and literary authorities who have feared reprisals from angry Muslims trying to hide a legacy of brutality vastly more bloody and six times longer in duration than the atrocities of the crusades. This is the engrossing factual account of the immense and little-known Islamic military invasions of Europe, and the major players who led them, beginning around 650CE. The Islamic Arabs (and later the Moors) occupied a number of the Mediterranean Islands, and invaded Spain and Portugal in 711CE, and ruled over much of the Iberian peninsula for the next 800 years. France was attacked and invaded, as was Italy, and the European coasts all the way to Ireland and Iceland. The Muslims swept over the Balkans, besieged Vienna, and were intermittent masters of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary into the 19th century, destroying the Byzantines, taking Constantinople (turning it into Istanbul). Ambitious and unrelenting, the Muslims also sought to conquer Austria, and Russia. In a bright and brisk narrative, Paul Fregosi's unique and provocative work is the first, and only, general history of the Jihad, the most neglected and disregarded phenomenon in European history.

Review:
"Although not The Satanic Verses, this book is sure to raise much of the same issues and ire, and come into demand simply because of its notoriety. It is a look at the darker side of the Islamic religion, from its inception with Muhammad up through the first half of this century, lightly touching on recent decades. Fregosi shows that jihad, or holy war, did not come about as a reaction to the Crusades but has been a continually integral part of Islam. While not excusing the barbarities of Christianity, he highlights how Islam has been particularly ruthless in its acquisition of lands and wealth and in dealing with those who have stood in its path. Although most of this history is well documented and factually indisputable, the author will likely generate considerable umbrage with his interpretation of many of Muhammad's actions and suryas (teachings) as manifesting a self-serving nature. This title is a highly recommended, if problematic, historical perspective, suitable for most libraries." - Eric Robbins (Booklist)

by James Reston Jr.
Review:
"Veteran journalist and author Reston brings to life three key elements of Spanish history that intertwined in 1492. Columbus takes a back seat to the Inquisition and the defeat of Islamic Granada, but plays a key role in demonstrating their relationship to the rise of empire and the modern state. Reston (Warriors of God; Galileo) has done tremendous research, though the shadows of his mostly older sources tend to show in stereotypes of the treasure-hungry, Machiavellian Ferdinand and the handsome adventurer Columbus charming Isabella. While he reduces the order of Dominicans to their role as inquisitors, he generally does justice to the complexities of his subject, examining the worlds of Christians, Muslims and Jews with sympathy and irony, and incorporating portraits of several lesser-known figures. The Inquisition emerges from political as much as religious circumstances, and the clerics presented run the gamut from saints to careerists, rabble-rousing preachers and prophets. Parallel civil wars in Christian and Muslim Spain and images of mobs on both sides suggest the interplay of popular feeling, government policy and theological debate. Despite minor disappointments in the details, this is a highly entertaining, thoughtful and complex narrative that both introduces and analyzes a greatly misunderstood era." – Publishers Weekly

by Joseph F. O'Callaghan
Publishers blurb:
Drawing from both Christian and Islamic sources, Reconquest and Crusade in Medieval Spain demonstrates that the clash of arms between Christians and Muslims in the Iberian peninsula that began in the early eighth century was transformed into a crusade by the papacy during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Successive popes accorded to Christian warriors willing to participate in the peninsular wars against Islam the same crusading benefits offered to those going to the Holy Land. Joseph F. O'Callaghan clearly demonstrates that any study of the history of the crusades must take a broader view of the Mediterranean to include medieval Spain.
Following a chronological overview of crusading in the Iberian peninsula from the late eleventh to the middle of the thirteenth century, O'Callaghan proceeds to the study of warfare, military finance, and the liturgy of reconquest and crusading. He concludes his book with a consideration of the later stages of reconquest and crusade up to and including the fall of Granada in 1492, while noting that the spiritual benefits of crusading bulls were still offered to the Spanish until the Second Vatican Council of 1963.
Although the conflict described in this book occurred more than eight hundred years ago, recent events remind the world that the intensity of belief, rhetoric, and action that gave birth to crusade, holy war, and jihad remains a powerful force in the twenty-first century.

André wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Andre, are they all in French, if not, if you could add the book covers for some you particularly like plus the author's photo or link, that would be great. "

Bentley, how come I j..."

Hi Andre, These look like great books, its a shame that I can't read/speak French! However my wife thinks that's a blessing in disguise since it means I can only buy books in one language and not two!

"Although not The Satanic Verses, this book is sure to raise much of the same issues and ire, and come into demand simply because of its notoriety. It is a look at the darker side of the Islamic religion, from its inception with Muhammad up through the first half of this century, lightly touching on recent decades. Fregosi shows that jihad, or holy war, did not come about as a reaction to the Crusades but has been a continually integral part of Islam..."

Well... There is something fundamentally wrong here. "Jihad" is a word that makes headlines, but betrays a total misunderstanding of the word. Despite what Al Qaeda and other such groups claim, Jihad is NOT a "Holy War". Jihad is a war of liberation, it can only be called by an Imam or senior spiritual leader. Further,there are specific rules governing the rules of engagement, i.e. non-combatants must not be harmed, indeed, protected.
A classic example of Jihad was when the Omanis expelled the Portuguese occupation of their country in the seventeenth century.
Sounds like Paul Fergosi has not done his homework and is writing sensationalism rather than history.

Harvey wrote: ""Although not The Satanic Verses, this book is sure to raise much of the same issues and ire, and come into demand simply because of its notoriety. It is a look at the darker side of the Islamic re..."

Hi Harvey, I'm not too sure if it’s the author's fault or the reviewer in regards to Paul Fergosi's book but I think the subject and/or interpretation of 'Jihad' is quite complex. I recently finished reading Hugh Kennedy's book "The Great Arab Conquests" which I thought was a pretty good historical account covering the period 632 to 750. On page 48 -49 he states:

"The teachings of Islam also introduced the idea of 'jihad'. Jihad or Holy War is an important concept in Islam. It is also one that has from the beginning aroused continuing controversy among Muslins. Fundamental questions about whether ‘jihad’ needs to be violent or can be simply a spiritual struggle, whether it can only be defensive or can legitimately be used to expand the frontiers of Islam, and whether it is an obligation on Muslims or a voluntary activity that may be rewarded with spiritual merit, were all open to debate. The Koran contains a number of passages instructing Muslims as to how they should relate to the unbelievers and different passages seem to give different messages. There is a group of verses that recommend peaceful argument and discussion with non-Muslims in order to convince them of the error of their ways. Verse 16:125, for example, exhorts Muslims to ‘Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching: and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: For your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and who receives guidance’. …….There are also passages that suggest a much more militant and violent attitude to non-Muslims. The classic statement of these views in the Koran comes in verse 9:5: ‘When the sacred months are past [in which a truce had been in force between the Muslims and their enemies:], kill the idolators wherever you find them, and seize them, besiege them and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush; but if they repent, pray regularly and give the alms tax, then let them go their way, for God is forgiving, merciful.’ This verse can almost be considered the foundation text for the Muslim conquests…”

by Hugh Kennedy

I am currently reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades” and I came across this section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin. Below is a description of the Frankish fate at Hittin.

Frankish Last stand on the hill near Hittin: The Muslims have surrounded Frankish position in Hittin. Al -Afdal,Saladin's son, said: "I was at my father Saladin's side during the battle, the first that I saw with my own eyes. The Frankish King had retreated to the hill with his small band. Muslims counter attacked pushing the Franks futher up the hill."

"Again I cried: "We have beaten them!" but my father turned to me and said: "Be quite; we shall not have beaten them until that tent falls!" As he spoke the Kings tent fell, and Saladin dismounted his hourse."

This is how the Kings tent fell: Franks had suffered from thrist during their several charges. Franks attempted several counter-attacks, which they hoped would win an escape out of their distress, but the way of escape was blocked. Franks dismounted from their horses continued their fight some sat down on the ground as the Muslims fell upon them, pulled the Kings tent down.

Muslims Captured the Frankish King, Kings brother, Prince Arnat of Karak, Islam, Jubail, Grand Master of the Templars, one of Franks great Dignitaries, and a band of Temlars, Hospitallers.

The battle field became a sea of blood: the dust was stained red, rivers of blood ran freely. The limbs of the fallen scattered in pieces over the battle field of mutilated body parts, extremities torn off..

All I have to say as a reader, is that I can only amagine during that last battle on the hill near Hittin, what the Frankish soldiers last thoughts would have been being out number and having no escape!

Francesco Gabrieli

This is an interesting article which deals in part with the Ottoman Empire. I plan to add a thread on this.

The question asked was:

Were people vying to become slaves in the Ottoman Empire?

What really happened is that almost 5 million Christian boys were stolen from their Christian families and raised to become slaves of the sultan.

Here is the article:

http://history.howstuffworks.com/asia...

What is interesting is that "slavery" traces back its history to this period of the Ottoman Empire.

The article states:

The institution of slavery has a long and dark history, dating back to some of the earliest records of civilization. A slave was usually on the bottom-most rung of society, leading a dismal life of powerless servitude. Yet, at one point in history, a certain kind of slave enjoyed privilege and power surpassing most other members of his society. How could such a bizarre situation develop?

It traces back to the 14th century, when the Ottoman ruler Orhan took advantage of a loophole in the Muslim law of ghanimat. The law allowed the sultan to take one-fifth of the booty his soldiers collected in battle. While booty usually meant material things, the sultan considered human captives part of the spoils. The sultan made an elite corps of slave-soldiers out of these captives; they'd later become known as the Janissaries.

Some of the sources include:

David Nicolle

Peter F. Sugar

Vamik D. Volkan

Bentley wrote: "This is a thread devoted to the discussion of THE CRUSADES (people, locations, events, books and other publications, battles, historic sites, maps, research information, urls, etc.)

Please feel fr..."

I want to add another book, if it hasn't already been added. It is a huge volume of data by Carole Hillenbrand called The Crusades: Islamic Perspectives. I remember reading this several years ago when I was writing a paper on the Crusades for a class on the Middle East. It provides access to primary and secondary sources from the Muslim side of the conflict. I wish I had my own copy, but even the paperback version is a big expense.

Angie wrote: "Bentley wrote: "This is a thread devoted to the discussion of THE CRUSADES (people, locations, events, books and other publications, battles, historic sites, maps, research information, urls, etc.)..."

Hi Angie, it sounds and looks like a very good book. I will have to see if I can find a decent second hand copy to add to my library. Thanks for the recommendation.

Do not forget to always add the author's link in addition to the bookcover.

Carole Hillenbrand

Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187).

Below is a description of the capture of "The Great Cross" known as the "True Cross" on the day of the battle:

As the Frankish King was captured at the hill near Hittin, the Muslims captured "True Cross" in which, they say is a piece of the wood upon which , according to them, the Messiah was crucified. Its capture was more important than the loss of the King and was the gravest blow sustained in the battle. The cross was a prize without equal, for it was the supreme object of their faith.

This maybe explains why the Franks and Muslims fought so hard during this given day!

I look forward to your comments!

Please...anybody else feel free to add to this discussion!

Francesco Gabrieli

Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187).

Saladin had offered to any muslims, fifty Egyptian dinar for the capture of the Templars and the Hospitallers. Muslims immediately had two hundred Templars and Hospitallers prisoners, who were decapitated at his command.

He had these particular men killed because they were the fiercest of all the Frankish warriors, and in this way he rid the Muslims people of them.

A year later after The Battle of Hittin. The land was covered with their bones, which could be seen even from a distance, lying in heaps or scattered around.

My question to anyone?
What country is Hattin/Hittin located now?
Has anyone ever visited The battle field of Hittin?
I have been told till this day, that bones are still found in the area, can anyone confirm this?

I look forward to your comments!

Please...anybody else feel free to add to this discussion!

Francesco Gabrieli

It is mentioned of the Templars being a powerful secretive group of warrior monks founded by French knight Hugues de Payens after the First Crusade of 1099 to protect pilgrims en route to Jerusalem.

I have a crazy question to ask to anybody?

Does the Monsonic Groups, or Masonic Temples also known as the FreeMasonary, Masonary, have any connections relations to the Christianity Templars & Hospitallers or Islamic religions. They were skilled builders!

I look forward to your comments!

Please...anybody else feel free to add to this discussion!

Francesco Gabrieli
Thomas F. Madden

Hello Regulo,

You have done a lot of reading on the Crusades. Please make sure to coordinate the thread's discussion though with Aussie Rick who is our Assisting Moderator - Military History. Aussie Rick is very easy to get along with so I know that your discussions on the Crusades will be just great.

We have responded to your PMs that you have sent; but have not gotten any response back that you have received them. You might look into your spam folder if you are not receiving goodreads mail.

Let us know how we can help you and let us also know that you are receiving the goodreads responses.

We also do not want to go too far afield with the thread since this is about the Crusades...some of your questions may be more suited for the Off Topic Conversation thread. Here is the link:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...


All best,

Bentley

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Harvey wrote: ""Although not The Satanic Verses, this book is sure to raise much of the same issues and ire, and come into demand simply because of its notoriety. It is a look at the darker side of..."

Interesting... but! 'Idolators' Idolators cannot be Christians for they are people of the Book (along with Jews) and Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) made it a specific point that Muslims MUST believe in the Bible and the Torah (his only problem was with the Divinity of Christ as opposed to Prophet Christ's teachings. Further, in the Holy Kabbah in Makkah al Mukamera (Mecca), Christian statues and images were preserved on Prophet Mohammed's express command. The long and short of it is that man as political, rather than a spiritual animal has chosen to interpret the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Bible in whichever way suits whatever objective is at hand. I am inclined to believe that Paul Fergosi is jumping on a good earner, given the lunacy of certain groups like Al Qaeda to write stuff with a political bias to capture the US market. History, academe is much more complex but not so good for the bank balance.
Come to that how many 'Christian' groups have followed the gospel... including the 'Crusaders' and I have not started on the Venetians yet!
By the way, Bentley, the Hillenbrands are very sound and I have heard both Carole and Richard give lectures; both very nice people indeed and Richard's book on Islamic architecture is just great.
This is a great topic!

Harvey..I am glad that you are enjoying the topic..it is a very lively discussion. Also, delighted to hear that you know the Hillenbrands and are familiar with their work.

Harvey wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Harvey wrote: ""Although not The Satanic Verses, this book is sure to raise much of the same issues and ire, and come into demand simply because of its notoriety. It is a look..."

Hi Harvey, I agree with what you are saying, especially about how many Christian's follow the commandments and gospel - the trouble in Northern Ireland springs to mind. Everything is always open to one’s interpretation and I’m sure you could read into the Koran, or the Bible, what ever suits your purpose. However in regards to Paul Fregosi's book, this was published in 1998 so I don't think Al Qaeda where on the radar back then as much as they are now. It’s mainly a history of the spread of Islam with the forward movements of the Muslim armies out of the Middle East, more of a military history than anything else.

Thanks Bentley, I am the proud owner of Richard's work on Islamic Architecture, personally signed by him. A great honour for me. He also liked the photograph I took of his wife for the Bared ad-Dar, the newsletter I was producing for the Maidan Cultural Centre in Kuwait when I was working for them.

We all believe in various creeds, ideals, philosophies etc. If we are historians we have to be a little dispassionate and separate the reasons why things happened. Unlike Jesus, Prophet Mohammed, and the Caliphs after him, fought their way out of trouble. Also, unlike Jesus, who famously said to render to Caesar what is Ceasar's and to God, what is God's; Islam does come from a different standpoint. It does not, of course, change the fact that the Ummayids or the Safavids or the Mughals wanted to expand their empires. They did. So did everyone else, then and now.
My only problem is when terms like 'Jihad' are misused (by our friend Paul Fergosi for example, to get the bucks rolling in), I do get upset, not least because it puts back any attempt to find a resolution to stability in the Middle-East as a whole.

OOps! Typo! Bareed ad-Dar!

Aussie Rick... maybe Al Qeada were not so much on the radar then, but Abu Nidal had been and a host of groups have been claiming all sorts of things. Saddam Hussain also put the word "Allah" on the Iraqi flag, in some pretence he was upholding religious values. Were any of them religious? Don't think so. Come to that in Europe we have also been fighting for God for a millennium at least. Did anyone check what Jesus preached? Turn the other cheek I think he said....

Harvey wrote: "Thanks Bentley, I am the proud owner of Richard's work on Islamic Architecture, personally signed by him. A great honour for me. He also liked the photograph I took of his wife for the Bared ad-Dar..."

I understand Harvey.

Harvey wrote: "Aussie Rick... maybe Al Qeada were not so much on the radar then, but Abu Nidal had been and a host of groups have been claiming all sorts of things. Saddam Hussain also put the word "Allah" on the..."

Hi Harvey, totally agree with you again, I think that the misuse of religion by zealots has a lot to answer for in this world and one of the best ways for different people/faiths to fully understand each other is by communication, the only hard question is how to get that started sometimes.

Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187).

Saladin ..."

For some interesting information on the Battle of Hattin see the link below:

Battle of Hattin

Bentley wrote: "Hello Regulo,
You have done a lot of reading on the Crusades. Please make sure to coordinate the thread's discussion though with Aussie Rick who is our Assisting Moderator - Military History. Au..."

Hi Bentley, Thanks for the response on my postings & discussions on my readings, especially from Aussie Rick... Although I've not heard from Aussie Rick on my recent newest postings on the Crusades group- messages#168-169-170. I noticed on the crusades group that he is busy on another short discussion with another reader.

I Thought, I was on the correct coordinated-Thread... just sharing and talking about my crusade readings on the Military History-Crusades Group with anyone who is interested!

I guess, I must be on the wrong group or channel! All my comments & questions are related to the crusades readings.

I have been receiving some goodreads posting & responses from the (Crusades Group) you and Rick and others. I must be doing something crazy-wrong! I'm not too clear or sure on the instructions on the reply/reponse. I just noticed that some of the Goodreads responses from the Crusades Group...goodreads went to my Junk Mail! OOps!

I guess the question is...How do I respond/reply back to these messages in my mail box?

Thanks for the Help!
Reggie

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187..."

Hi Rick, I just wanted to say that your doing a great job as a moderator! I dont care what Bently says about you... I just noticed that some of the goodread messages went into my junk mail! So I may have missed everyones responses!

Rick, Thanks for sharing that link on the "Battle of Hittin" that is excellent information. I will have to read it.

Rick, Did you finish reading that book on the "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes". I wanted to compare the readings between your book and the book that I'm reading "Arabs Historians of The Crusades." Such as comparing certain battles etc..

At the moment the book I'm reading goes into a very well description as to certain battles, battle formations, equipment and dialog of certain witnesses who were in the crusades.

I've posted a few questions on some recent postings on the battle of hittin, hopefully you can get an answer. Messages!168-169-170.

Thank for you help!

Reg

Regulo wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Hello Regulo,
You have done a lot of reading on the Crusades. Please make sure to coordinate the thread's discussion though with Aussie Rick who is our Assisting Moderator - Milit..."

Regulo, you may want to indicate in some way to your email that goodreads mail is not spam. Some others have had that problem before. In my email software, I simply click not spam and that moves the mail to my in box. If you keep doing this and keep checking your junk mail box, eventually your email software becomes more intelligent.

Also, this is what goodreads recommends in their help area:

what do I do if I'm not receiving emails?

If you are not receiving emails from Goodreads, please check your bulk or spam folder. Also make sure to add [email protected] to your contacts to help ensure deliverability. Making sure your email address is verified in your account may also help. If you've done all that, email notifications such as the friend update email, daily group digests, or message notifications may be blocked by your ISP, so you may want to contact them.

By the way...I just want you to know that Rick resides in Australia...so it is 2:15 AM Monday there and he probably will not respond for a few hours. Being in a different time zone and different day has built into it certain delays. But he will get back to you and respond as soon as he can - (after he finishes sleeping - smile).

Bentley wrote: "Regulo wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Hello Regulo,
You have done a lot of reading on the Crusades. Please make sure to coordinate the thread's discussion though with Aussie Rick who is our Assisting Mod..."

Hi Bentley, Thank you for the security mail information update! My Junk email is set to "High" on my computer. I am receiving Goodreads Summarys and Crusades Group comments, but a few have been taken by Junk Mail. I will try to reset if computer lets me!

Thanks Bentely for the help! You guys are doing a great job and I really enjoy reading everyones fascinating comments in all aspects of Military History! This Group readings seems to be very Additive!

I just spoke to Aussie Rick at about 0430 hrs today Sunday. It's 0910 hrs here in California/USA and wakening up...listening to a U-2 song called... Beautful Day!

The storm is coming for the next six days here in California/USA. Lets going surfing at Santa Cruz beach...Bentley!

I continue reading: "Arab Historians Of The Crusades"
an incredible perspective view from the Enemy's side of the sword!

Francesco Gabrieli

Glad that things are working out for you Regulo (with your mail); and you are most welcome.

Aussie Rick is really working hard to develop the Military History area and is doing a great job. You actually spoke to Rick...well good for you and I am glad that you were able to connect. I am sure that you will get a lot of assistance from Rick.

Take care if you go surfing (smile).

Glad that we were able to uncover the problems that you are having with email.

Bentley

Regulo wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battl..."

Hi Regulo,

I have ordered a copy of "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes" but it hasn't arrived yet. I was trying to find a hardback copy but that wasn't possible so I had to go for a paperback. Sorry to say I am a bit of a hardback snob.

by Amin Maalouf

I will try and reply to your recent questions first chance I get.

Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187).

Saladin ..."

Hi Regulo,

I checked out Wikipedia which stated that the Battle of Hattin; ".... took place near Tiberias in present day Israel. The battlefield, near the town of Hittin, had as its chief geographic feature a double hill (the "Horns of Hattin") beside a pass through the northern mountains between Tiberias and the road from Acre to the west. The Darb al-Hawarnah road, built by the Romans, served as the main east-west passage between the Jordan fords, the Sea of Galilee and the Mediterranean coast."

I have not visited this site but have travelled briefly around the area visiting The Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Sanctum Sepulchrum) in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Petra and Jerash in Jordan and Cairo (what a great place!). I have also visited Istanbul and walked around some of the old walls of Constantinople, I need to go back and re-visit nearly all these places.

Jerash in Jordan

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Sal..."

Hey Aussie Rick, Thanks for sharing this book information. Tell me what you think of the story once finished. I look forward to reading the book as to always interested on the Arabs perspective views on the crusades.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battle of Hittin (July 1187..."

Hey Aussie Rick, "WoW" Thank you for sharing this fascinating update information with me. It really takes me years back into time! This is incredible!

I'm keeping this information, I'd like to review these sites myself very soon. Never been there before so I was curious. The Jerash Jordan Link was beautiful!

This actually overall gives me a better Map insight Orientation of where the city of Tiberias is now, and where Battle of Hittin and the town Hattin is located.

This is very helpful. I'd be very interested in just to visit the sites of the double hill (the "Horns of Hattin")where the battle took place.

Regulo wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: " Hello everyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Saladin, The Battl..."

Hi Regulo, I've always wanted to visit the Crusader castle Krak des Chevaliers in southern Syria, its one of the best examples available today of Crusade fortifications. I have visited a few Crusade period castles and fortifications when I was posted in Cyprus including a Keep that was once manned by Templar Knights. Below is a link from Wikipedia on Krak des Chevaliers that offers some nice details and images:


Krak des Chevaliers

Hi Aussie Rick, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter called "Discription of The Sacred Rock" in Jerusalem (July 1187). Saladin has already taken Jerusalem.

Saladin ordered the veil covering this rock to be removed. The rock was brought to light again for visitors to see and was restored to its former state.

It was an ornamented tabernacle with colums of marble, marking it as the place where the "Messiah" had set his foot: a holy and exalted place.

Hey Rick, do you have any idea what they are talking about? Did you ever see this when you were there?

Francesco Gabrieli

Thanks
Reggie

Regulo wrote: "Hi Aussie Rick, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter called "Discription of The Sacred Rock" in Jerusalem (July ..."

Hi Regulo, I did not get the opportunity to visit the Dome of the Rock when I was in Jerusalem. Here is a link to the history of the 'Sacred Rock' which the Dome of the Rock was built over:


Dome of the Rock

If I'm wrong on this I think Harvey could offer a bit of history on the 'The Sacred Rock'.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: "Hi Aussie Rick, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter called "Discription of The Sacred Rock" in J..."

Hi Aussie Rick, Thank you so much for sharing the(Dome of The Sacred Rock) information with me. This was very educational to me and interesting, I appreciate this.

I will continue to research and read further on this topic!

The Link and the photos of the Dome of the rock were incredible to see, it's amazing. It's definitely a beautiful place to see some day!

It's amazing of what the Jews and the Muslims believe about the Sacred Rock in Jerusalem!

This may answer the reasons why this Holy Land in Jerusalem is so sacred to the Jews and the Muslims.

Maybe the reasons for so many wars fought in that region too!

I thank you for your support!

Regulo

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Regulo wrote: "Hi Aussie Rick, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I came across this interesting section in the chapter on Muslims defending the city of Acre "The Siege-Towers Are Burnt Down" on (5 May 1190).

Below is a description of the First Invention of Muslims-Artillery Catapults and using pyrotechnic devices and ingredients with naphtha.

The inventor of the pyrotechnic devices and ingredients with naphtha was a muslim man from Damascus! his name was not mentioned!

The Franks were using tall Towers platforms to attack the muslims high walls at Acre during their battle.

Muslim artillery catapults shot several of their "Hell-Fire" balls of fire hitting the Frankish towers and towers began to burn. The fire spead quickly through the towers, preventing the men on the five- tower platforms from escaping to safety.

Saladin muslims were able to come with a new technology artillery invention to use againts the Franks.

I found this to be very interesting to have learned of this new technology used by the muslims.

Does anyone know what this pyrotechnic devices and ingredients with naphtha was made of?

Regulo

Francesco Gabrieli

Hi Aussie Rick, or anyone, I am currently still reading “Arab Historians of The Crusades.”

I just wanted to share an amazing reading in the chapter called "Various Incidents during the Siege of Arce in (August 1190).

Muslims and Saladin were holding Acre. The Franks had surounded and blockade the harbor against the Muslims shipping. The muslims were in besieged in dire need of food and provisions.

A group of Muslims in a ship embarked from Beirut with a cargo of four hundred sacks of grain, cheese, onions, mutton, and other provisions were going to attemp to enter Acre the blockade harbor with their supplies to Saladin.

The Muslims dressed in Frankished clothes, Shaved their beards, put some pigs on the upper deck where they could be seen from a distance, set up a cross.

They reached Acre harbor and came into contact with the enemy ships the Franks accosted them in small boats and galleys. Thus the muslim ship was free to follow its own course, and entered port on a favourable wind, and safe.

This was an excellent unconventional warefare tactic used by the muslims aganist the Frankish forces guarding the Acre harbors. It was amazing that none of the Frankish soldiers were not able to detect the disgusied muslims wearing Frankish uniforms.

This technique has been used many times in now days of war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I look forward to your comments!

Please...anybody else feel free to add to this discussion!

Regulo

Francesco Gabrieli

Jeff wrote: "Have been monitoring this discussion and admit I'm relatively ignorant of the Crusades beyond the surface details. Picked up Madden's Concise History of the Crusades at the library yesterday, whic..."

Hi Jeff, I have recently ordered a copy of "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes" as I also wanted to read a book looking at this period of history from the other side. I will let you know what its like once I have it in my hands.


by Amin Maalouf

Regulo wrote: "Jeff wrote: "Have been monitoring this discussion and admit I'm relatively ignorant of the Crusades beyond the surface details. Picked up Madden's Concise History of the Crusades at the library ye..."

Hi Regulo, I recently purchased five volumes of Procopius's "History of the Wars" which covers the conflicts between the Byzantium Empire against the Persians, the Vandals and the Goths. The areas covered include the Middle East and Africa, Italy & Sicily. You might really enjoy these accounts of old. I have just finished the first volume and it was excellent even though it was written around 540AD.

by Procopius

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Manuela wrote: "Hi Rick,

I promise to let you know my final opinion on the book, but it might take a while, I had to take a break, as these aren't the best of times for me. For the time being I ..."

Hi Rick and everyone!

Sorry but I've been way too busy at work, plus had some health problems that didn't allow me to follow this discussion for a couple of weeks.

Thanks for your recommendations Rick, I was/am looking for books that don't focus solely on the 'Spanish' part of the Reconquista, so

by Paul Fregosi was a pretty good recommendation, I'd say. I think I'd spotted this one already but lost track of it.

I already have by James Reston Jr. in my own little library at home. I found it in a bookstore a couple of years ago and despite being rather expensive I couldn't resist. You'd be amazed how expensive books in Portugal are, therefore I usually look for the English version if they're available although it's not my language.

by Joseph F. O'Callaghan might not be what I'm looking for right now but I'll keep the reference, thank you anyway.

I recently found some online resources that might add to my study of the Reconquista. I'm not (yet) a scholar and unfortunately I cannot spend the time I would like investigating. If anyone is interested I can send the links but I'm not sure this is allowed or even desired in this thread.

I'll now try and catch up with the latest posts. :)

Thanks again!

Manuela..anything posted must be thread specific.

Meaning it should stick to the Crusades subject, correct Bentley? So is it ok if I post a link to an article, for instance?

Just a note: In a way the Reconquista can be/is considered part of the Crusades movement, as some crusaders aided Portugal, for example, in the taking of some strongholds or villages while on their way to the Middle East. Knights and military orders from Portugal, Castile, Aragon and Leon were sometimes relieved from joining the crusades so they could fight Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula, for instance.