SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Anyone watched this BBC series? A very light interpretation on Merlin as a young wizard living in Camelot (with Arthur & Morgana who was at the same age), yet interesting.

The casting is intriguing as well due to the casting of Guinevere. IMDB users are baffled and still having a furious debate until now (whereas the series already pocketed two seasons) since she is considered to be too plain for the legendary role. Thoughts?

Yeah. I was a little shocked by the casting of Guinevere especially when you compare to Morgana. All I can think is racial diversity - similar to what happened in Robin Hood BBC Series.

Nothing wrong with racial diversity. I merely think Guinevere should be appearance wise like Helena of Troy - desired by a single glance!

You say plain...cause needless pain..with much disdain I say to thee,
Look again,with glance more deep...in countenance doth beauty keep...timeless beauty will not flee,
Please look again...and this time see!

the actress (Angel Coulby) is good but I think the chemistry (with the actors playing Arthur and Lancelot) is more a problem than her looks.

Yes Silvana..I agree...a bit early historically for Guinevere to have come from stock from one of the Islamic countries...I can't remember if there were any Knights Templar etc around in Arthur's day, or if the Holy Wars were raging then.

Really? well, that explains then :)

Btw, the series included several notable figures in the Arthurian legend as well...including Nimueh (Lady of the Lake), Morgause, and my personal favorite...

[image error]
Mordred

This kid is so enigmatic! I just could not keep my eyes away from the screen.

Can hardly wait for season 3 :)

I see what you mean....Pity LOTR did not have some childhood flashbacks...an enigmatic Frodo as a lad if ever I saw!

Tanja wrote: "Yeah. I was a little shocked by the casting of Guinevere especially when you compare to Morgana. All I can think is racial diversity - similar to what happened in Robin Hood BBC Series.

Nothing ..."

Hmm, I've never watched BBC's Robin Hood. How is it compared with Merlin?

Dennis
The Arthurian legends were set in the early 6th century, the Romans had been gone about 200 years leaving us in the dark ages.
Have to admit the BBC have baffled me with both these series which seem to have nothing in common with either legend other than naming the characters by those in the stories.
I live in Nottingham at the moment, and live only a couple of miles from the castle, which is why I often laugh at how it's portrayed in the films, usually near a big forest with no sign of the city.

Thanks for that Deanne...I was trying to explain the somewhat Saracen look of the beautiful Angel Coulby,as Guinevere, by suggesting that her mythical lineage in Merlin, could have been the result of Guenevere's parents having been brought back to Britain from The Holy War in the Islamic countries, by Knights Templar.
6th century setting would seem to preclude that possibility. It appears that producers have very losely tied their series to the legend. As a Kiwi I love your connection with the castle. Love my country, but doubt if we have any buildings over 250 years old. Angel Coulby does have a deep radiance, an unconventional beauty..Would hate to see a Barbie-doll type, crammed into a velvet bodice and foisted on the viewing public as a more likely Guenevere.

Dennis
There's a pub at the base of the cliffs which Nottingham castle stands on, It's called the trip to Jerusalem and it's been there since 1189. The name is supposed to derive from the crusadres stopping there on the way to Jerusalem.
I lived in New Zealand for 4 years, and had a great time.

Dennis wrote: "Love my country, but doubt if we have any buildings over 250 years old."

The Acoma Pueblo located in New Mexico is said to be the oldest continuously inhabited structure in the US dating back to 1000-1200AD.

If you looking at structures built by colonists, then we're looking at 1600s. Still pretty young as compared to Europe. :)

Love the show so far. Cannot wait for more episodes. But it sounds like they are no longer airing this in the UK. Its fairly a light adaptation. I agree with the comments about Guinevere. Also, they haven't really cast her in anything important yet. She's still very much a sideline character as far as the show is concerned.

I thought you were talking about the Sam Neill Merlin series, which follows the Mary Stewart novels rather closely, though it is, IMO, a poor production.

I IMBDed this new series and it looks interesting and certainly gets high ratings. It this made for kids, primarily? Would it be interesting for an adult versed in the Arthurian legends?

I don't think an Eastern look to Gwenhwyfar would fly, but perhaps a Scythian source would. See From Scythia to Camelot A Radical Reassessment of the Legends of King Arthur the Knights of the Round Table and the Holy Grail

Random
Not sure what New Zealand's oldest structure is but Dennis could tell you it's possibly in Auckland.
I saw Stonehenge years ago and found it an amazing thing to look at something that had stood for nearly 4500 years.
As for the whole Arthurian legend, about to read The once and future king by White.

Deanne
Love to visit that pub! Bit of a dream at this stage, but allowed to dream eh! Never know, some benevolent film-maker may take up my book 'The Understanding' and thereby make themselves a fourtune and perhaps make me enough for a good study holiday to Britain.
Four years in NZ! U R practically a Kiwi.....I am a fourth generation Kiwi, but even so my Irish & Scottish bloodlines have left me with a real desire
to visit Britain and the incredible amount of inanimate history still visible.
Family Pennefather (my family) in NZ is still shot-through with Dennis, Patrick, Oliver (after Cromwell, who gave an English ancestor Pennefather, a 12 hundred acre estate near Tipparary, called Park House, for meritorious military service).
Random. I believe in stating 250 years, I grossly overstated the age of our oldest surviving building which is likely 150 - 180 years old. I think there was/is an old stone store at Keri Keri ( or is that Kati Kati) that may be close to the oldest, but I am sure there is someone out there with more accurate historical knowledge who can bring us all up to date.
Kernos. Thanks for the info and links.
It matters not to be seen by.....An old man or a child's rapt eye.....An immortal tale will raise a sigh... for old man or child as once were I.
(Excuse me waxing poetic)

Deanne, I see you have quite a list of books to read, but wondered if you would like a free copy of my debut SF novel, 'The Understanding' aka 'The Jump-Clones' You can see some reviews on http://www.strategicpublishinggroup.com or major distributor sites.
I know it may be some time before you can get to read it, but I feel you may enjoy some of the Kiwi nuances and 'culcha' even if set in another dimension and thirty years into the future.

Just wanted to reply to Anu to correct the misconception that Merlin was no longer being aired. The fourth series just finished (on Christmas Eve) and filming starts for Series Five (at the moment going to be the last one) in March this year for airing on BBC 1 sometime around October. It will be 13 episodes in length.

Series 4 premieres in the States on Syfy this Friday, Jan 6. I didn't realise they were still airing it. It wasn't until this past weekend that I found out. And luckily, I had just started watching Series 3 on Netflix. Finished last night. :)

@Kernos, I don't know if I'd say it was made for kids, but DH and I do recall calling it 'Camelot 90210' when we first saw it.

I'm a sucker for any Arthurian story so I am enjoying this even when I shake my head at the interpretation, such as Gwen. Really? They made her a servant? But somehow, it works.:)

I must have missed a lot during the first five minutes. Why did Arthur need a speech? What was the dinner for? What happened to Morguse? Who is the Uncle?

TiVo decided that the Season Pass wasn't important.grrr.

I love this series! It inspired me to revist the fantasy tales from my childhood, and seek out more recent authors.

It seemed to start off light, but has gotten slightly darker (I have only just finished season 2. Plan to do a merlin marathon first day after Easter term is over!)

Dennis wrote: "Yes Silvana..I agree...a bit early historically for Guinevere to have come from stock from one of the Islamic countries...I can't remember if there were any Knights Templar etc around in Arthur's d..."

Arthur is generally agreed to be from the early 500's AD, well before the Crusades.

Love this show! Cannot wait for the 4th season to be available on netflix!

I've not watched this yet, though I'm collecting the DVD series as they appear. I am hoping it is not overly romantic. I still find Stephen Lawhead's Pendragon series the most possibly accurate fictional depiction of Arthur in post-Roman Britain. That and Mary Stewart's series are my favorites.

It's not too terribly romantic, as the main focus is on the friendship between Merlin and Arthur - often the Gwenivere character even feels very secondary - since their take on it is fairly unique (Gwen is the lady Morgana's maid-servant, not a noble herself).

I LOVE Stephen Lawhead's pendragon series mostly because he totally leaves out the whole Lancelot nonsense... Lancelot appears in the BBC show, but it is done well so far (have only seen the first 3 seasons).

I'm versed in the Arthurian myth and found it entertaining as a young adult. The thing I particularly like is that its a light-hearted approach that, while it ignores the myths in exchange for storytelling, has good character and is quite family friendly compared to much of the tv we get over here.

I've been a big fan of the Merlin series ever since it started. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think the creators of the series intend it to be set in our world at all, so there's no point trying to work out, for instance, where a Guinevere with Angel Coulby's looks would have come from. I think the intention is just to create a fantasy world out of Arthurian materials, keeping many of the themes, people and ideas but recombining them in a way that is fresh and isn't tied to the original stories. If you approach it in that spirit, I think it works really well. The casting seems to me just about perfect, the scenery's gorgeous, Camelot is a fairytale palace, the scripts are fun, and the main characters are engaging. What's not to like?

Chris wrote: "I've been a big fan of the Merlin series ever since it started. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think the creators of the series intend it to be set in our world at all, so there's no point ..."

Exactly! :)

Does anyone else get a bit of a kick out of laughing at the parts of the show that are just silly (in a kind way, of course, because I LOVE the series...) but have you ever noticed that Camelot only has about 12 knights, and they keep getting totally wiped out? Or the fact that while Camelot's knights are known for their might and cunning and bravery... for some reason they are ALWAYS warming their hands over some fire, their weapons nowhere to be seen, and it is pretty easy to slip past them so long as you glance about furtively? Or how about the fact that hiding behind thin pillars is the equivalent to wearing an invisibility cloak? I love these elements, they make the show quite endearing, but they also make me laugh.

My sister makes me watch this - she's a major fan and sends me the dvds quick smart from England. It's loads of fun. Gorgeous photography, a terrific young Merlin, an engaging story between him and Arthur, who starts out negatively and changes; Uther too a stand-out for character-interest and acting; and Morgana simply to drool at.

Jenelle wrote: "Chris wrote: "I've been a big fan of the Merlin series ever since it started. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think the creators of the series intend it to be set in our world at all, so the..."

Yeah that actually does make the show endearing and it does make me laugh. Not in the 'it's so bad it's good' but more in the: 'it's nice to see a show that's not focused on being so politically correct or focused on detail over story telling.'

I love this series and am eagerly waiting for the next season. I also blame this series for the fact that I can no longer think of Merlin/Author as a mentor/student thing that many books portray. BBC has basically made it impossible for me to read any new Arthurian books. UGH.

I quite like the casting of Guinevere, though I do agree with the fact that there really isn't that much chemistry between her and Arthur. I LOVE Morgana, Merlin and Gaius though. The Knights of the Round Table are all pretty spot on too.

Pauline wrote: I also blame this series for the fact that I can no longer think of Merlin/Author as a mentor/student thing that many books portray. BBC has basically made it impossible for me to read any new Arthurian books. UGH.

Perhaps I'm underestimating your problem, Pauline, but one way of dealing with this might be to think of the BBC series as bearing much the same relation to the original legends as a dream bears to real life. The original stories are 'real'; the BBC series is a mixed-up dream fantasy based on them. Another way might be simply to read more Arthurian literature, including revisiting Malory (or maybe T.H.White). After a while, you might find that you've restored your original image of the Merlin/Arthur relationship simply because of the sheer quantity of 'real' Arthurian stuff you've read.

I must say, though, that I've never had your problem. I think I treat every version of the Arthurian legends on its own merits. I keep them in separate rooms in my head. Every retelling can then get on with doing its own thing, without spoiling any of the others for me.

I agree - I thought that Katie McGrath would be a much better Gwen than Angel Coulby. She is rather plain, especially besides Katie.

GUYS DID YOU SEE THE FINALE AUFPHADFPHASUDFH

Why does this show have no money to give the knights armor...or the king some kind of court.

The knights are usually wearing what appears to be sweaters spray painted with a metallic paint. For some reason full armor amounts to chain mail + a arm and shoulder plate.... But why?

And the king is usually alone in the throne room, except for brief and rare occasions where he is about 20 people show up.

Oh well, good show for script and such, but a few more bucks on costumes...lol

Please continue watching it! It's an amazing show, in my opinion.

Kernos wrote: "I IMBDed this new series and it looks interesting and certainly gets high ratings. It this made for kids, primarily? Would it be interesting for an adult versed in the Arthurian legends?"

How young of kids? Definitely not for people pre-pubescent, IMHO. The scenes with Uther and the troll I may never erase from my mind's eye. But neither is it meant for serious adults with no sense of humor. Somewhere in the middle. The series doesn't take itself too seriously, but neither does it seem to be laughing at itself, if you catch my meaning.

I think it was meant as a family TV Show. How it is with the ending, I have no idea.

What is the real thing when it comes to Arthur/Merlin stories anymore? It seems, to me, that it's all a bit muddled over time like old fairy tales and there no longer is any "real" version anymore.

The show is low-budget, the casting is different, the story line can be stagnant --- and I absolutely love it. In a word, charming. I just want to tug on Merlin's ears. I think he's sexy. If I ever travel to England, I'm going to track him down and ask him to take me on a proper date.

If I ever track Colin (Merlin) down, it'd be to give him a sandwich. What's he weigh, 70 pounds?

Anyone watch the final season's premier this past week on SciFi? Merlin looks like he's gained weight (and Arthur looks like he's lost some).

Sarah wrote: "The show is low-budget, the casting is different, the story line can be stagnant --- and I absolutely love it. In a word, charming. I just want to tug on Merlin's ears. I think he's sexy. If I ever..."

Just don't give him tomatoes or meat or dairy.

Sarah wrote: "Anyone watch the final season's premier this past week on SciFi? Merlin looks like he's gained weight (and Arthur looks like he's lost some)."

I should be, but I watched it on a livestream when it was in Britain.

I watched this from the beginning :) and my grand-daughters insist on continuing this viewing - 'cos they think it's brilliant! Whatever I say, they insist :)

My whole life has circled around Arthurian Myth (I find it extremely interesting) so I've read both fiction and non-fiction whenever I can get my hands on it! And, ultimately, have had to suspend belief, in the fandom regarding this series!

It is totally against all accepted myth; some elements have been used (accepted), but an AWFUL lot of artistic licence has imbued this series with total unbelievability and non-representation. As a TV series, it is different; it is sensational (bringing weird magic into the mix!); it is TOTALLY untrue to the generally accepted mythology.

It comes down to pure entertainment: it is enjoyable because it doesn't follow the usual TV mores; it (mis)-educates people in Arthurian myth; and it encourages the viewing public to actually VIEW!

Great fun; lovely (different) TV; purely monetary values; but a total anathma to Arthurian myth afficionados :)

Just sayin'

I really like this series. It has good story lines, and the relationship between Arthur and Merlin is the highlight in my opinion. Casting Guinevere as they've done is good, I think.

In terms of the relationship between Arthur and Guinevere, you have to remember the context - she's a servant, he's the next/King. I particularly enjoy the relationship that Merlin has with Guinevere.

And because of its low budget, it's the story that keeps people watching.

Carole-Ann wrote: "I watched this from the beginning :) and my grand-daughters insist on continuing this viewing - 'cos they think it's brilliant! Whatever I say, they insist :)

My whole life has circled around Arth..."

I am big on the Arthurian mythos as well, and all the changes made this show unbearable for me to watch. I can see why people like it, but I couldn't really enjoy it. I'm hoping that someone does a truer adaptation somewhere down the line.

Funnily enough, I quite enjoyed the BBC Sherlock series...

I just finished watching this film. I think this is one of the most effective fantasy tv series - effective in a way that it used low budget special effects instead of flashy, cinematic ones that are used by hollywood movies or game of thrones series. and seriously, it's very family friendly - I just noticed there were no blood shed in almost EVERY BATTLE :D

the casting of guinevere made me 'eh' at first time. but I think the producer of merlin was trying to deconstruct a lot of things, including racial stereotypes. and Angel Coulby's acting was spectacular.

At first I cringed during season 2 when Arthur was started to be attracted to her, I felt like it was kinda rushed. things were getting better during season 3...

but hey, by the end this show is about Arthur and Merlin. ;)