The Sword and Laser discussion

I feel like I posted this already but I can't find it so...

I started a book list by this name http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/87...

Somehow freaking harry potter is at the top.

It's all about the magic system not the story or anything else. I thought the sword and laser crew might be interested in having a look and placing some votes.

Here's my unadulterated list:

1 Assassin's Apprentice
by Robin Hobb - 2 mental magics the skill (kind of a telepathy / mind control) and the wit (a mental bond shared with an animal which extends to all the senses)

2 The Misenchanted Sword
by Lawrence Watt-Evans - The sorcerers (amulet wielding bad guys) and demonologists of the north are taking on the goodly wizards (standard wand wavers) and theurgists of the south

3 With A Single Spell
by Lawrence Watt-Evans - same world as misenchanted sword but now we are rocking wizards and witches (like wizrds but instead of external power their power comes strictly from within)

4 Magic Casement
by Dave Duncan - all power stems from magic gibberish words which once you hear them get stuck in your head. one word makes a genius at one particular skill like a master swordsman, two words makes an adept a genius at any skill, three words makes a mage who has mastery over any mundane skill as well as illusion and compulsion etc, four words makes a sorcerer and there are only a few of them, 5 words only the Gods know what that makes :)

5 A Spell for Chameleon
by Piers Anthony - (almost)everyone in Xanth has a magical talent which can be as simple as projecting a spot on the wall or as complex as being able to transform any creature into any other creature. The real joy here is the devious uses of peoples talents which frankly does not come up that often.

6 The First Book of Swords
by Fred Saberhagen wow 12 awesome swords with 12 awesome powers and a song to go with them:

Who holds Coinspinner knows good odds
Whichever move he make
But the Sword of Chance, to please the gods,
Slips from him like a snake.

The Sword of Justice balances the pans
Of right and wrong, and foul an fair.
Eye for an eye Doomgiver scans
The fate of all folk everywhere.

Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, how d'you slay?
Reaching for the heart behind the scales
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, where do you stay?
In the belly of the giant that my blade impales.

Farslayer howls across the world
For thy heart, for thy heart, who hast wronged me!
Vengeance is his who casts the blade
Yet he will in the end see no triumph.

Whose flesh the Sword of Mercy hurts has drawn no breath;
Whose soul it heals has wandered in the night,
Has paid the summing of all debts in death
Has turned to see the returning light.

The Mindsword spun in the dawn's gray light
And men and demons knelt down before.
The Mindsword flashed in the midday bright
Gods joined the dance, and the march to war.
It spun in the twilight dim as well
And gods and men marched off to hell.

I shatter Swords and splinter spears;
None stands to Shieldbreaker.
My point's the fount of orphans' tears
My edge the widowmaker.

The Sword of Stealth is given to
One lowly and despised.
Sightblinder's gifts: his eyes are keen
His nature is disguised.

The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath no body killed
But many left to starve.

The Sword of Seige struck a hammer's blow
With a crash, and a smash, and a tumbled wall.
Stonecutter laid a castle low
With a groan, and a roar, and a tower's fall.

Long roads the Sword of Fury makes
Hard walls it builds around the soft
The fighter who Townsaver takes
Can bid farewell to home and croft.

Who holds Wayfinder finds good roads
Its master step is brisk.
The Sword of Wisdom lightens loads
But adds unto their risk.

7 The Patchwork Girl of Oz
by L. Frank Baum
Ok so we all know the wizard of Oz and maybe some of you remember the powder of life from return to Oz. The powder of life an bring anything to life and in this book a patchwork girl (who is given a large helping of cleverness) is brought to life it's probably my favorite Oz book. It features a glass cat with some nice visible pink brains inside it's head and you can "see 'em work"

8 The Face of Apollo
by Fred Saberhagen

Ok so you wanna be a god? Take one of these masks and stick it on your face and you're all set. :)

9 American Gods
by Neil Gaiman
The old forgotten gods are still running around and causing trouble in modern America

10 The Wizardry Compiled
by Rick Cook
A computer program gets dropped into a fantasy world where his knowledge is put to good use organizing magic.

11 On a Pale Horse
by Piers Anthony
Death, Life, God, the Devil, etc are all being played by people who have "assumed the office" an interesting take on the problems Death has doing his job.
12 Nine Princes in Amber
by Roger Zelazny
Surely everyone has read this!

13 The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
by C.S. Lewis
Dropped from list since it was only here for sentimentality!!

14 The Spell of the Black Dagger
by Lawrence Watt-Evans

15 Mistborn: The Final Empire
by Brandon Sanderson

16 The Complete Compleat Enchanter
by L. Sprague de Camp

17 Sabriel
by Garth Nix

18 The Lives of Christopher Chant
by Diana Wynne Jones

19 The Magicians
by Lev Grossman

edited to pimp some of my choices!!

I started my list and realized that many of the author magic systems I have liked were either big RPG players or designers.

Robert Jordan's WoT is the one series I think that was not. The others are Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, and the Alera books (very different magic systems, both cool); Michael Stackpole's Cartographer series; and the Shadowrun series when handled correctly (various authors).

I would also throw in, Amber, Discworld, and what I've read of the Mistborn books.

I wouldn't include C.S. Lewis, the magic is more literary device than any kind of system. Harry Potter being at the top doesn't surprise me. It's a solid system, and we do only see very limited parts of it. Not all that interesting though.

There are others that I liked, but they were not as interesting a take on magic.

I don't know how anyone could classify Harry Potter's magic as "interesting" since it's the standard, "Wave your wand and say some magic words" stuff that's been a cliche since the Middle Ages. It works because the story isn't really about the magic, but it's as basic as fantasy magic gets.

Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker has a pretty cool 'breath system'.

Yeah, I'd definitely say that Amber is up there. Also, probably since it was one of my first series, David Eddings magic system from the Belgariad and Mallorean have always stuck in my mind. It's not that complex, but I remember trying to push rocks over with my mind for years after reading those books.
Also, though I'm not a big fan of the books, I thought the magic as art system in Terry Goodkind books are pretty interesting.

My number 1, though, would have to be the magic in the China Miéville books. There is such a wealth of possibility and mystery in that system.

I thought that Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy was great fun -- he has very detailed rules for magic and how to invoke the various types (well, the five types).

And Ix is spot on with Eddings. Although, I must ask, were you approaching the rocks correctly? I don't remember it being all that difficult once one's breathing was correct...

I'm not sure. I kept folding space and decided to give up on psionic powers altogether.

Tamahome wrote: "Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker has a pretty cool 'breath system'."

Hey thanks for warbreaker I read it today based on your recommendation! It's definitely an interesting system but it seems more like soul stealing and less like breath stealing.

Paul wrote: "I thought that Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy was great fun -- he has very detailed rules for magic and how to invoke the various types (well, the five typ..."

Oh yeah great books! I love the later books where they go into bizarre alternate worlds with even crazier magic systems. I found the one where they could suck your luck out and stick it in jewelry particularly awesome.

I think Zelany's take on magic in the Amber series and then in the Madwand books were very different and fun to read. He also had some kind of grounding through research in the Cabalistic magic and he really does a good job working that into the stories with out really making you aware of his knowledge.

Lord of the Isles I thought the Drake did a really good job with magic in Lord of the Isles. The first book in the series was good but I gave up on the series after book 4. Just wasn't going anywhere.

Magician: Apprentice The first chapter of Feist's Magician had an excellent description on how a boy discovers her can perform magic. Great book too.

Another one I always found interesting and different was the Riddle Master of Hed and the associated titles. I have not seen the use of elements handled the same way and it was very enjoyable story as well.

These are the books that I voted for, not sure about what order I would put them though...

Sabriel
by Garth Nix

A Necromancer who does not bring the dead back to life but keeps the dead to stay dead? I think awsome. :)

Graceling
by Kristin Cashore
This one would probably not be my number 2 but I still really liked it.

A Spell for Chameleon
by Piers Anthony

Howl's Moving Castle
by Diana Wynne Jones

The Princess and the Hound
by Mette Ivie Harrison

These two books both have "Talking to animals" type magic, I liked the Princess and the Hound more, but Wild magic did have a cooler magic systm..

Wild Magic
by Tamora Pierce

The Lives of Christopher Chant
by Diana Wynne Jones
I would so like to have 9 lives...

The Warrior Heir
by Cinda Williams Chima
A bit simple but done well.

Fire
by Kristin Cashore

Poison Study
by Maria V. Snyder

Dealing with Dragons
by Patricia C. Wrede
Mostly on here for sentimentality but I still think it's fun. :)


But I just have to ask, why is Tilight on there??? Did they give the vampires wands now?

Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell old elizabethan english magicians vs fairy magic. Laurell K. Hamilton Her main character is a necromancer who gets paid to raise the dead and shoot things, also a vamplire executioner. First 5 or 6 books keep it moving but the series eventually deteriorates into superporn. Im 1/2 thru the most recent and all they have done is talk and go to vegas to talk some more
Expiration Date People can capture spirits of the dead in bottles and consume them to gain attributes, Einsteins ghost is a character sort of...
Steven Brust Two types of magic, Humans use witchcraft, Dragaerans(taller, live 3000 years)tap into their link to imperial orb and blow shit up...
Forest Mage mages store up magic in their belly till they are fat with power, lose the weight when they use the magic, i knew my belly was powerful

Tamahome wrote: "Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker has a pretty cool 'breath system'."

I totally agree. I just finished that book and posted my review of it. It took a little bit to get into, but once I understood how it worked I loved it.

In Ru Emersons The Calling of the Three The "Night Threads" magic system was kind of interesting. A reusable magic system where they "weave" threads of light into magic rope, cloth, etc. which they can manipulate and control.

I enjoy the magic system of Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. There are a range of people with magic -- Wizards, Sorceresses, Confessors, Witch Women, etc ...

And the magic itself tends to have a very artistic and mathematical/geometric bent to it.

Kris wrote: "Another one I always found interesting and different was the Riddle Master of Hed and the associated titles. I have not seen the use of elements handled the same way and it was very enjoyable story..."

Agreed! I love the Riddlemaster series and land law.
I also felt "The Will and the Word with Edding's Belgariad was excellent grounding for a magic based system.

ORson Scott Card provides two interesting ones. In Hart's Hope, magic can be gained through sacrifice. The person who makes the greatest sacrifice gets the greatest magical power. The nasty bit is how much one woman sacrifices - of herself and others - to gain what she wants.

Card made up an entirely different idea in a short story called "Sandmagic" which appeared in Cardography and Maps in a Mirror. In this world, people who want to be magicians of, say, forest magic, have to serve the forest. Eventually, the trees figure out that if they bend their branches and such to the will of the mage, he or she can help them, water their roots, give them fertilizer, whatever. There's stonemagic, and watermagic, and all these elemental forms. The story hinges on a bitter young mage who decides to harness the power of the desert, but has to figure out what sand 'wants' (i.e., how to serve it) before he can gain power over it.

Interesting stuff. Card has a whole section on developing magical systems which make logical sense in his book on writing sci fi.

Oh, one more. I always liked the music-based magic in Spellsinger and its sequels, by Alan Dean Foster. In those books, a young man accidentally teleported to a magical realm discovers that whenever he sings (folk, rock, blues, whatever comes to mind) the lyrics manifest themselves. Hilarity ensues.

I third, or fourth the mentioning of Brandon Sanderson. I think creative, unique magic systems are not only objectively his thing, but he has explicitly stated many times that he thinks of magic systems as his thing.

Mistborn and Warbreaker have been mentioned, but people should also check out his first book, Elantris, which had another really different magic system involving symbols hand-drawn in the air by the magic user like glowing airy runes.

The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss.

Surprised it hadn't come up yet actually.

James wrote: "The Name of the Wind.

Surprised it hasn't come up yet actually."

Well, that would be because I am traumatized by waiting for Rothfuss to finish the next book...

I created a space in my brain where I put Name of the Wind and all of Martin's books. It makes the rest of my brain safe from sorrow.

An old school if you will magic system was done by Katherine Kurtz for her Deryni books that is pretty elaborate and she goes into a lot of detail as well.

Halbot42 wrote: "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell old elizabethan english magicians vs fairy magic. Laurell K. Hamilton Her main character is a necromancer who gets paid to raise the dead ..."

Ha! I love the belly thing!

My favorite I think is the system in Kraken, by china Meiville. Its all about persuasion and subtlety. It feels real while maintaining its power

It's been a while since I read any of it, but how about the Earthsea series.

Peter F Hamilton's Void series has our normal universe, where tech is very advanced, and another world hidden behind a event horizon at the heart of the galaxy where magic works, but the energy to pull off the magic comed from the external universe at a huge cost, the last book comes out next tue 8/22

The Death Gate cycle had a interesting take on how magic worked. Loved that series although it kinda was a little sci-fi with the bending or reality explanation.