Book Nook Cafe discussion

thewanderingjew wrote: We don't disagree.
"Things were speeding out of control before we could define them. Those of us who cared most deeply about the changes, those who gave their lives to them, were, I think, the most deceived.."

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I appreciate your enthusiasm and heart felt ideas, however, as I stated in another thread recently, here at BNC we really do try to keep the political banter to a minimum. It just creates ill will. I am sure there are many other GR boards that debate politics and religion but generally speaking we are not one of them.

I appreciate everyone's cooperation on this.

thewanderingjew wrote: "And....on a lighter note, the song to those words is beautiful"

I just found one with Donavon singing them ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQUT6m...

Plus I finally found out what "Aengus" means...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus

You have my permission to delete any of my posts that you find offensive. The quote, however, is from the book, so don't delete that unless its necessary.
thanks,
twj

Alias Reader wrote: "thewanderingjew wrote: We don't disagree.
"Things were speeding out of control before we could define them. Those of us who cared most deeply about the changes, those who gave their lives to them, ..."

No, it's not necessary to delete anything. It's just from past experience, I know these types of discussion upset people, so it's just best not to even get into it.

I know I am very passionate about politics, so it's hard for me to refrain, too. :)

Mike wrote: "Plus I finally found out what "Aengus" means...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus
."
================

"probably a god of love, youth and poetic inspiration. He was said to have four birds symbolizing kisses flying about his head (whence, it is believed, the xxxx's symbolizing kisses at the end of lovers' letters come from)."

How interesting. I wondered why XXXX meant kisses.
It seems like I learn something every single day.

I've known of that poem for around 30 years and never thought to understand the full meaning of the title. The Song of Wandering Aengus.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

— Christopher Hitchens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christop...

Christopher Eric Hitchens (born 13 April 1949) is an Anglo-American author and journalist. His books, essays, and journalistic career have spanned more than four decades, making him a public intellectual and a staple of talk shows and lecture circuits.

Hitch-22: A Memoir~ Christopher Hitchens

I am not afraid of the pen, or the scaffold, or the sword. I will tell the truth wherever I please.
-Mother Jones (Mary Harris Jones)



She was a labor leader, agitator and much more. 
She became known as the "The Most Dangerous Woman in America" 
by those opposed to her labor reform agenda.   

Audio of her autobiography - http://librivox.org/the-autobiography...

For some reason in can not the link below to become clickable here, I've two different ones. If you want to read this (it's not too long) you will have to cut n'paste it of just google her...

Text of her autobiography - http://www.eclipse.net/~basket42/mojo...

Sometimes when I get an unworkable link on GR it is because it is too close to other text. Maybe the - in your sentence it the problem. Always put two spaces before and after a link or better yet, give it it's own line.

This is usually the problem when you see that the GR book link did not work in someones post.

I'll give it a try.

http://www.eclipse.net/~basket42/mojo...

"Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."

— Marie Curie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie

Marie Skłodowska Curie (7 November 1867 – 4 July 1934) was a physicist and chemist of Polish upbringing and subsequent French citizenship. She was a pioneer in the field of radioactivity and the first person honored with two Nobel Prizes —in physics and chemistry. She was also the first female professor at the University of Paris.

This year I read a really wonderful YA bio of Curie. It was concise and well written.

Sterling Biographies: Marie Curie: Mother of Modern Physics~ Janice Borzendowski

Alias Reader wrote: ""That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

— Christopher Hitchens ..."

Another one i want to remember. Thanks.


deborah

"A friend is a gift you give yourself."

-Robert Louis Stevenson

Alias Reader wrote: "Sometimes when I get an unworkable link on GR it is because it is too close to other text. Maybe the - in your sentence it the problem. Always put two spaces before and after a link or better yet..."

Ahhh, I see, thanks.

madrano wrote: "Alias Reader wrote: ""That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

— Christopher Hitchens ..."

Another one i want to remember. Thanks.
deborah
----------------

You're welcome, Deb.

I saw Christopher Hitchens on Charlie Rose the other day. Unfortunately, he is not well. He has esophageal cancer.

"The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles."

— Mahatma Gandhi


The Essential Writings

An Autobiography or The Story of My Experiments with Truth


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas...
2 October 1869 – 30 January 1948) was the pre-eminent political and spiritual leader of India during the Indian independence movement. He pioneered satyagraha—resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience, a philosophy firmly founded upon ahimsa, or total nonviolence, which helped India to gain independence, and inspired movements for civil rights and freedom across the world. Gandhi is often referred to as Mahatma Gandhi

The International Day of Non-Violence is observed on 2 October, the birthday of Mahatma Gandhi

"I have always wanted to write a book that ended with the word 'mayonnaise'."
- Richard Brautigan

"Books are the carriers of civilization. Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."
- Henry David Thoreau
Transcendentalist author (1817 - 1862)

Strange Meeting

"It seemed that out of battle I escaped
Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
Through granites which titanic wars had groined.

Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
Lifting distressful hands as if to bless.
And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall

By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.
With a thousand pains that vision's face was grained;
Yet no blood reached there from the upper ground,
And no guns thumped, or down the flues made moan.
"Strange friend," I said, "here is no cause to mourn."
"None," said that other, "save the undone years,
The hopelessness. Whatever hope is yours,
Was my life also; I went hunting wild
After the wildest beauty in the world,
Which lies not calm in eyes, or braided hair,
But mocks the steady running of the hour,
And if it grieves, grieves richlier than here.
For of my glee might many men have laughed
And of my weeping something had been left,
Which must die now. I mean the truth untold,
The pity of war, the pity war distilled.
Now men will go content with what we have spoiled,
Or, discontent, boil bloody, and be spilled.
They will be swift with the swiftness of the tigress.
None will break ranks, though nations trek from progress.
Courage was mine, and I had mystery,
Wisdom was mine, and I had mastery:
To miss the march of this retreating world
Into vain citadels that are not walled.
Then, when much blood had clogged their chariot-wheels,
I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
I would have poured my spirit without stint
But not through wounds; not on the cess of war.

Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.
I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
I knew you in this dark: for so you frowned
Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
Let us sleep now . . . ."
- Wilfred Owen

Thank you, Mike. Good poem.


deborah

Mike wrote: ""Books are the carriers of civilization. Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."
- Henry David Thoreau
..."

I've been going through my book of quotes & the next one i wanted to share was also from Thoreau. Coincidence? Hmmm...

"We Live but a fraction of our lives."

Alias Reader wrote: "I saw Christopher Hitchens on Charlie Rose the other day. Unfortunately, he is not well. He has esophageal cancer. ..."

I am very sorry to hear this. He has long been hard to look at, as he always seems to look ill to me. Very sad.

deborah

madrano wrote: "We Live but a fraction of our lives."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How very sad this is and how very true for the majority of us.

Books, purchasable at low cost, permit us to interrogate the past with high accuracy; to tap the wisdom of our species; to understand the point of view of others, and not just those in power; to contemplate--with the best teachers--the insights, painfully extracted from Nature, of the greatest minds that ever were, drawn from the entire planet and from all of our history. They allow people long dead to talk inside our heads. Books can accompany us everywhere. Books are patient where we are slow to understand, allow us to go over the hard parts as many times as we wish, and are never critical of our lapses. Books are key to understanding the world and participating in a democratic society."

— Carl Sagan (The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark)

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark~ Carl Sagan

"we can never be born enough. we are human beings for whom birth is a supremely welcome mystery, the mystery of growing...the mystery which happens only and whenver we are faithful to ourselves."

e.e. cummings

Alias, i like the Sagan quote about books. Thanks.


deborah

You're welcome. I wish Sagan was still around.

"War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength."

— George Orwell (1984)

1984~ George Orwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_O...
Eric Arthur Blair (25 June 1903 – 21 January 1950), better known by his pen name George Orwell, was an English author and journalist. His work is marked by keen intelligence and wit, a profound awareness of social injustice, an intense, revolutionary opposition to totalitarianism, a passion for clarity in language and a belief in democratic socialism.

Considered perhaps the twentieth century's best chronicler of English culture, Orwell wrote fiction, polemical journalism, literary criticism and poetry. He is best known for the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949) and the satirical novella Animal Farm (1945). This pair of books has sold more than by any other twentieth-century author. His Homage to Catalonia (1938), an account of his experiences as a volunteer on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War, and his numerous essays on various subjects relating to politics, literature, linguistics, culture and lifestyle, are also widely acclaimed. Orwell's influence on culture, popular and political, continues. Several of his neologisms, along with the term Orwellian, now a byword for any draconian or manipulative social phenomenon or concept inimical to a free society, have entered the vernacular.

Alias Reader wrote: "You're welcome. I wish Sagan was still around."

I was so wrapped up in astronomy that i didn't realize he knew anything about other topics. LOL! He really helped make the exploration of space exciting and approachable. I hope he's always remembered for that.

deb

"Every day is a renewal. Every morning, the daily miracle. This joy you feel is life."

-Gertrude Stein

madrano wrote: ""Every day is a renewal. Every morning, the daily miracle. This joy you feel is life."

-Gertrude Stein"

That made me think of these lyrics...

"The birds they sang 
at the break of day 

Start again 
I heard them say 
Don't dwell on what 
has passed away 
or what is yet to be. 

Ring the bells that still can ring 
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack,
a crack,
in everything
That's how the light gets in.

---excerpt from Anthem by Leonard Cohen

Mike, Are you a Leonard Cohen fan? I am too -- and my son is a MAJOR Leonard Cohen fan. He has even traveled to be able to see him in concert.

Barbara

Bobbie57 wrote: "Mike, Are you a Leonard Cohen fan? I am too -- and my son is a MAJOR Leonard Cohen fan. He has even traveled to be able to see him in concert.

Barbara"

I only discovered his music a year ago and now I have like five of his albums. He is such an interesting man. I LOVE  "Suzanne" and "Tower of Song"!!! 

I have a hard to find live record of him live. I had to order it from overseas. It's got this song called "Please Don't Pass Me By" on it. He just made it up on the spot impromptu. Just beautiful lyrics. I've read a book by him too.  

So many people have sung his songs. I had heard other musicians do songs of his and thunk they had written them. Some of his lyrics are so shocking and quite explicit but all his words are very thought provoking for me.  

Here's an excerpt from an excellent website (http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/) of him telling about how he came up with the words for "Bird on The Wire" 

http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/hydr... 



"Bird on the Wire began in Greece, when Cohen first arrived in Hydra, there were no wires on the island, no telephones and no regular electricity. But soon telephone poles appeared, and then the wires. I would stare out the window at these telephone wires and think, how civilization had caught up with me and I wasn't going to be able to escape after all. I wasn't going to be able to live this eleventh-century life that I had thought I had found for myself. So that was the beginning. Then he noticed that the birds came to the wires. The next line referred to the many evenings Cohen and friends climbed the endless stairs up from the port of Hydra, drunk and singing. Often you see: three guys with the arms around each other , stumbling up the stairs and singing these impeccable thirds. He finished the song in a Hollywood motel on Sunset Boulevard in 1969."

I'd love to see him live like your son was able to. What would you say is your favorite tune by him?  
 

"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose." 
From Oh, The Places You'll Go!
 ---Theodore Geisel "Dr. Seuss" (1904 - 1991) author and illustrator

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."
— Dave Barry


"Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength."
— Eric Hoffer

Mike wrote: ""You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose." 
From Oh, The Places You'll Go!
 ---Theodore Geisel "Dr. Seuss" (1904 - 1991) author a..."

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With your avatar I was wondering when you were going to quote the good Dr. :)

Alias Reader wrote: "With your avatar I was wondering when you were going to quote the good Dr. :)...""

Ha! And I was wondering if anyone was going to make the connection!

Mike - It is hard to choose but I think my favorite Leonard Cohen song is Hallelujah.

He is getting pretty old for touring. My son tells me that he probably won't get a chance to see him again which was why he made a point of going up across to Canada to see him this year. There was a long period of time when Leonard Cohen didn't tour at all.

Mike wrote: ""You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose." 
From Oh, The Places You'll Go!
 ---Theodore Geisel "Dr. Seuss" (1904 - 1991) author a..."

This is my standard graduation gift, as i love the message and want graduates to see it as the beginning, not the end. It's one of the few books my DD didn't give away in the purging of her library. Pretty good for someone who is going to spend the next few years traveling, methinks.

deborah

Alias Reader wrote: "Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength."
— Eric Hoffer"

I absolutely LOVE this quote. Thank you. Thank you!

"Writing is higher than walking, thinking is higher than writing, deciding is higher than thinking and deciding 'no' higher than deciding 'yes.'"

from Memories and Studies by William James

madrano wrote: "It's one of the few books my DD didn't give away in the purging of her library."

It's one I will never out grow too.

madrano wrote: ""Writing is higher than walking, thinking is higher than writing, deciding is higher than thinking and deciding 'no' higher than deciding 'yes.'"

from Memories and Studies by [autho..."
-----------------

I've added this book to my list of ones I need to check out. Thanks !

If you don't know history, it's as if you were born yesterday.

~~ Howard Zinn

Yesterday, the TV show Democracy Now was rebroadcasting a speech he gave last year to a graduation class. Fortunately, I was able to catch some of it.

The Zinn Reader: Writings on Disobedience and Democracy

A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present

Alias Reader wrote: "the TV show Democracy Now."

I watch that almost everyday online. I met Amy Goodman once here in Portland when she participated in a sort of symposium.

Mike wrote: "Alias Reader wrote: "the TV show Democracy Now."

I watch that almost everyday online. I met Amy Goodman once here in Portland when she participated in a sort of symposium."
--------------------

Lucky you. The show is very informative. You get a lot of info that you don't get elsewhere. And many of the interviews and stories are in depth coverage.

Alias Reader wrote: "You get a lot of info that you don't get elsewhere...."

So true. Sometimes I'll see a certain news story on there and just can't believe the mainstream media think it's not newsworthy. Or could the mainstream news be - GASP! - censoring what they deem dangerous for the public to hear? Even NPR doesn't cover certain things.

Mike wrote: Even NPR doesn't cover certain things.
----------------

True, but NPR is still the best thing on radio. I would be lost without it.

Don't get me started on the "main stream" media. So much is sound bites. It has no real depth. And often it has a herd mentality. It rarely breaks new ground or makes waves. It's a sad state of affairs for sure.

Unfortunately, as Neil Postman said we are too busy "amusing ourselves to death" to even notice or care. :(

Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business~ Neil Postman

* I love this book. If you should read it, make sure you get the updated version. Unfortunately, Mr. Postman is deceased. He was a sane and prescient voice. A colleague updated the book.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
— Mark Twain

Great one, Mike! Thank you.

"What distinguishes man from other animals is that in one form or another, he guards his dead. And from what does he futilely protect them?"

-Miguel de Unamuno

Because i didn't know who he was, despite having the quote (which i got from The Chicago Sun Times magazine, Midwest in April of '74, i looked him up online. I share here-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_d...

deb

madrano wrote: "Great one, Mike! Thank you.

"What distinguishes man from other animals is that in one form or another, he guards his dead. And from what does he futilely protect them?"

-Miguel de Unamuno"

Hmm, interesting quote. It conjured up the thought of a John Prine tune in me...

"Please don't bury me down in the cold cold ground,
I'd rather have them cut me up and pass me all around.
Throw my brain in a hurricane, and the blind can have my eyes,
And the deaf can take both of my ears if they don't mind the size.

Give my stomach to Milwaukee if they run out of beer,
Put my socks in a cedar box, just get 'em outa here!
Venus de Milo can have my arms, look out, I've got your nose,
Sell my heart to the junk man, and give my love to Rose.

Give my feet to the footloose, careless, fancy-free,
Give my knees to the needy, don't pull that stuff on me,
Hand me down my walking cane, it's a sin to tell a lie,
Send my mouth way down south, and kiss my ass goodbye."