Science and Inquiry discussion

Aloha wrote: "What are some examples to illustrate he's a nut job?"

My biggest complaint about Kurzweil is that he goes looking for exponential growth and finds it everywhere. He seems ignorant (willfully or otherwise) of the logistics curve where all real-world examples of exponential growth run up against limited resources and the growth curve bends downward and plateaus.

A lot of thoughtful folks have questioned his ideas.

He tends to push things way beyond what seems possible even at the outside. I could almost as easily classify his "singularity" writings as Speculative Fiction.

Thank you for the information. I see that Douglas Hofstadter is one of his critics. Since I'm going between the two books, it'd be an interesting comparison on thoughts about AI.

Aloha wrote: "What are some examples to illustrate he's a nut job? His ideas are very interesting so far, although I've only started. How would you compare his speculations with Hans Moravec's?"

I have no idea who Moravec is.

It has been too long ago since I really looked at his stuff in detail. As others have mentioned, my impression was that a lot of his ideas were fringe ideas. Though, I started hearing about this well after his publication of "Singularity". As Robert above said, his arguments were logical. Maybe this book is decent and maybe he went a bit bonkers after? I just remember a lot of hub bub about being skeptical about his claims a few years ago.

Hans Moravec works with robotics and AI, and is a futurist. His ideas about the future of robotics is optimistic, like Kurzweil.

I'm almost 1/3 through the book, but I agree with what Robert said. It seems that whatever statements he make is backed with data. Unless the data is erroneous, what he says makes sense. I think his and Moravec's optimistic point of view in the idea of integration of human biology with robotics is objectionable to a lot of people who worry about a dystopia. Here is an interesting article on biologist PZ Myer's attack on Kurzweil's ideas:

http://www.science20.com/rogue_neuron...

Yeah that's probably true about the dystopia thing. To be honest, I am not that interested in Robotics/AI stuff, apart from the fact it makes good movies like Terminator. The reason is, for what I study, that would be more of a Computer Science thing and I'm not as into that stuff even though I can do it and my bosses have told me my programs are "elegant" or whatever haha.

Am 2/3 of the way through About Time: Cosmology and Culture at the Twilight of the Big Bang and I really am enjoying it. I'd like to suggest it for a future read.

I just finished Hot: Living Through the Next Fifty Years on Earth and I thought this was a spectacular book about climate change and a lot of the issues surrounding it.

Aloha wrote: "Jim, I started reading Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. It's terrific. I was scared of the table of content, which described the analysis the book will go through..."

Thanks for the comments, Aloha! I will check out the sample of Singularity ASAP.

Just finished A Planet of Viruses Excellent. He really makes you understand that all the world is filled with viruses. Highly recommended.

Uh, is that a good thing, Kenny?

Kenny wrote: "Just finished A Planet of Viruses Excellent. He really makes you understand that all the world is filled with viruses. Highly recommended."

I finished The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology. I really enjoyed it, although I don't agree with some of the things he said. He does back up his predictions with interesting facts. He doesn't limit himself in thinking of the possibilities. This is an easy to understand book for an educated layman, yet dense with information.

Still working on Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. I'm glad I have an extra month to work on this. This is not reading to be done in a weekend.

Kenny wrote: "Just finished A Planet of Viruses Excellent. He really makes you understand that all the world is filled with viruses. Highly recommended."

I love Carl Zimmer! I think this is one of the few books I don't have by him. I really loved his book Parasite Rex : Inside the Bizarre World of Nature's Most Dangerous Creatures.

Carl Zimmer is one of the people I follow on Google+. He's a frequent poster and very accessible. He often posts links to his lectures and talks that are available online.

Currently reading The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science - strong start.

I'm about half way through Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life. I had no idea how difficult it was going to be for a lay reader like myself. I wasn't expecting something so abstract and philosophical not knowing Dennett's background beforehand. Anyone else read this?

Steve:

"Darwin's Dangerous Idea" is one of my all time favorite books. It goes into the subject in such depth it can be daunting. I think his science and carefully thought out explanations are worth the struggle. He does toss in a few arguments about why he disagrees with some of his competitors in academe, but if you ignore that part you can learn an immense amount of knowledge from a variety of scientific fields. This, even though the author may be considered a philosopher.

Later, John.

John wrote: "Steve:

"....learn an immense amount of knowledge from a variety of scientific fields. This, even though the author may be considered a philosopher...."

[snicker] Yes, Dennett is very good. Excellent writer.

I just finished two excellent books:

How We Decide is an easy-to-read, entertaining book that describes how we make decisions using the emotional/intuitive side of the brain, and then we use the rational side of the brain to back up our decisions with reasoning. Here is my review.

The Righteous Mind is more technical, but it is a highly original book about moral psychology, and the ways we think about politics and religion. Here is my review.

Steve wrote: "I'm about half way through Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life. I had no idea how difficult it was going to be for a lay reader like myself. I wasn't expecting something s..."

Hi Steve, yep read this back when it was first published. Loved it. For me, it seemed to take up where The Selfish Gene left off. I've seen Dennett talk and he is a very clear speaker. I just wish Dawkins and Hawking would stick to the biology/ cosmology and leave the philosophy to Dennett and his fellow philosophers. Dennett has a much broader understanding of the range of philosophy and can put the philosophy of science in context. A note of caution though, for many years I only read the likes of Dennett and by doing so I did get a bit of censored view of the field. I see you are pretty well read, but if you haven't read much philosophy of science book then I'd recommend something like Chalmer's 'What is this thing called science'

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...

It's more of an undergrad academic text, but I found I learnt a lot by dipping into it. Cheers

Graham wrote: I see you are pretty well read, but if you haven't read much philosophy of science book then I'd recommend something like Chalmer's 'What is this thing called science'

Yes, I see we have more than a few books in common. I'll check out your suggestion. I think it may simply be that I am more interested in the physical, practical side of science and evolution rather that the philosphical side.

For a defense of evolution I (thus far) preferred Coyne's Why Evolution Is True and Miller's Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul.

And contrary to what John said above, I actually enjoyed the section in Dennett's book on his attack on Gould and I'm now reading his attack on Chomsky. I hope to one day read Simon Conway-Morris' The Crucible of Creation: The Burgess Shale and the Rise of Animals to get another take on Gould's theories.

Steve wrote: "I think it may simply be that I am more interested in the physical, practical side of science and evolution rather that the philosphical side. ..."

A lot of scientists feel like that. I've found that dipping into the philosophy a bit helps me assess the strength of various scientific arguments along the same lines as Dennett does with Gould and Chomsky...not as well of course. In pushing the boundaries of knowledge I think you get to a grey area where science and philosophy come face to face.

Just finished reading Dan Ariely's new book called 'The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone--Especially Ourselves'. The book explores the psychology of lying, cheating and corruption, and the factors (both internal and external) that either increase or decrease it (as well as how we can exploit these factors to get less cheating in our own lives, and society in general). It was quite good. I've written an executive-style summary of the book at newbooksinbrief.wordpress.com

Sounds like a fascinating book, but I must wonder at the truth of it.

The Honest Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone---Especially Ourselves

I recently finished reading Endless Forms Most Beautiful: The New Science of Evo Devo and the Making of the Animal Kingdom. It is an excellent book about what Sean Carroll calls "Evo Devo", which is short for "evolutionary development". Each cell in your body has the same DNA, but then why does an embryo develop so many complex, and different organs? Research in the past ten or twenty years has gone far to answer this question. This is a very well-written book, and is recommended especially for people interested in genetics or evolution. Here is my review.

Aaron wrote: "Just finished reading Dan Ariely's new book called 'The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone--Especially Ourselves'. The book explores the psychology of lying, cheating and corru..."

Thanks for the recommendation, Aaron. Dan Ariely is a great author! I've put the book on my "To Read" list.

Enjoyed the review, David. I put Sean Carroll's book on my reading list. Thanks.

I just finished the book Evolutionary Dynamics: Exploring the Equations of Life. It is largely a collection of mathematical models, that the author builds up from first principles. The truth is, I have mixed feelings about the book. While it covers a variety of fascinating topics, the book does not do enough to interpret the model results, and also lacks model-data comparisons. Here is my review.

Just finished reading 'The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code.' It was fantastic. It's by Sam Kean (author of the equally spectacular 'The Disappearing Spoon'). His latest book tells the story of DNA--both the story of the history of life (from the smallest, simplest microbe, to we human beings), as well as the story of how we human beings managed to unravel DNA's mysteries (from Mendel, to Morgan, to Watson and Crick, to the Human Genome Project). I've written a full executive summary available at newbooksinbrief.wordpress.com.

Cheers,
Aaron

I recently read about The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War, and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code. Sounds really good; goes on my Maybe list. Maybe in a few months we can suggest it for a group read.

"A Short History of Nearly Everything," by Bill Bryson. I listened to the audio-version of this concise history of our current scientific understanding and how we got there. The book is a nice review for scientists and a good overview for laymen, especially of physics and climatology. An easy listen in the car that is well worth your time.

Dr. Leonardo Noto
Physician Turned Grumpy Old Author

Oh, I just thought of another good one that I recently read. "The Gift of Fear," by Gavin de Becker. Written by a bodyguard to the stars, this book examines fear, why we have it, and how it serves a beneficial purpose in our lives.

An oldie-but-goldie is "A Genetic Switch," by Mark Ptashne. This little book is a great overview of molecular biology with lots of great pictures. It is more geared towards undergraduate science students than to the layman.

Aaron wrote: "Just finished reading 'The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code.' It was fantastic. It's by Sam Kean (author of the equally spectacular 'T..."

Thanks, Aaron. I've put the book on my "to read" list, and reserved it at the library.

Im reading Now "How the immune system works " , this book is amazing . i really recommend it if you are interested in immunology and wanna to understand the whole picture in a very simple way .

Just finished reading Acquiring Genomes: A Theory Of The Origin Of Species.

I gave it 3 stars but would have given it 4 if not for the uneven writing and "snipy" tone towards other evolutionary scientists, so I do think it is a worthwhile read.

Hear's the last paragraph of my review:

"To a lay reader like myself, the book certainly gives one a pause to consider that evolution may not be as fully understood as we thought it was. Speciation by random mutation and differential survival may not be the only rule--genome acquisition and symbiogenesis may play an important role. But just how important is a subject of ongoing debate as much as natural selection was during Darwin's time. Stay tuned for more information.

Here's my full review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Aaron wrote: "Just finished reading 'The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code.' It was fantastic. It's by Sam Kean (author of the equally spectacular 'T..."

Thanks for the suggestion:) - I put the book on my to-read list. I really enjoyed The Poisoner's Handbook.

I just finished Timothy Ferris' book, Seeing in the Dark: How Amateur Astronomers Are Discovering the Wonders of the Universe. Astronomy is one of the few sciences where amateurs can still make real contributions. This book splendidly conveys the author's enthusiasm for his "hobby". Here is my review.

Last science book read with review:
The View from Lazy Point: A Natural Year in an Unnatural World by Carl Safina
5 stars

An outstanding read with a good balance of the author’s own lyrical, personal experience with the interconnectedness and beauty of nature and of thoughtful arguments of how humankind must act soon to change the course of its poor stewardship of planet Earth. The book covers one year in which he alternates between sojourns in the environs of his residence near the tip of Long Island and trips to distant sites where human-caused ecological changes are most profound. The latter include coral reefs in the Pacific and Caribbean, remote sites in the Arctic and Antactica, the rain forests of southwestern Alaska. We are in good hands for these tours because this poetic soul is a conservation biologist and winner of the MacArthur Prize.

Some quotes that capture his message are as follows:
“A member of a preliterate tribe might stumble on a book and see it useful only to start a fire. In our use of the world, we are just beginning to beginning to learn the first ABC’s while rifling through the encyclopedia of life and muttering, ‘What good is it’ “

“Most of civilization remains uninformed about the two great realities of our existence: all life is family, and the world is finite. That is why we keep making choices that threaten our own financial economy, the economy of nature, and the economy of time—otherwise known as the future of the world. What I am saying, basically, is that in very consequential ways our modes of conduct are so out of synch with reality that they’re essentially irrational.”

“Let’s not be afraid to say, to explain—if necessary, to rage—that we hold the uniqueness of Earth sacred, that the whole living enterprise is sacred. And that what depletes the living enterprise always proves to be, even in practical terms, a mistake."

Michael wrote: "Last science book read with review:
The View from Lazy Point: A Natural Year in an Unnatural World by Carl Safina
5 stars

An outstanding read with a good balance of the author’s own lyrical, perso..."

This looks like a great book, Michael. I've put it at the top of my "To Read" list.

I just finished reading The Honest Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone--Especially Ourselves. Dan Ariely (a great author, by the way), manages to write a fascinating, fun book about a depressing subject. Highly recommended. Here is my review.

I finished and just reviewed a 2006 book that many may have checked out because of its catchy title This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession. For me, it was "A" for effort and "C" for execution. From my past experience, I have learned that neuroscience would do well to be humble about its explanatory relevance for ordinary people, and psychology should stand on its own without expecting its advances to be reduced to brain patterns. That said, I was happy to see the progress in the field, and the drive of a former rocker and sound engineer turned scientist to make a contribution.

Mike wrote: "Salvatrice wrote: "Emily wrote: "just thought i'd add Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers, it's very easy to read and oddly, humorous."

agreed! that was a good one...and one i never thought..."

Ditto. They were great fun. I love knowing about a science humorist who is much sought in the speaking circuit and a successful writer.

The Violinist's Key was a great pleasure to read and filled with information. The introduction hooked me as the author, Sam Kean, spoke of the genetic disorder of Paganini. Clearly, Kean has not just studied and worked but also played with the language and information he presents.

Just finished "Birth of the Mind" by Gary Marcus. I loved it and gave it 5 stars. Here's my review:

"How can a paltry 30,000 genes code for the production of a human being with its trillions of cells, each cell itself an exquisitely complex assembly of interacting organelles, microstructures and molecules? It would seem there wouldn't be enough information contained in such a small number of instructions. Marcus does a masterful job explaining how this so called "gene deficit" is simply a result of thinking of genes the wrong way. The genome is not a blueprint or otherwise static list of instructions; it is a "recipe" for how individual agents (the genes) should interact using simple local rules. The complexity of the body and mind emerge from these interactions through time in dynamic relation with the environment. I have read no better explanation of how genes *really* work. Marcus explodes simplistic notions of deterministic genetic blueprints while painting a satisfying portrait of the true relationship between nature and nature - as inseparable aspects of the same developmental process. His discussion about how genes build brains (and hence thought) is almost secondary. His main point is that the processes (and genes) that go into building brains and maintaining their function through life are fundamentally no different than those that go into building every other aspect of us. Where this book truly shines, brilliantly, is in elucidating that general developmental process.

At 180ish pages this book is condensed goodness - erudite, educational and entertaining. Loved it. Marcus is one of my favorite new scientists."

Susanna wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "Except that it's so old. Punctuated equilibrium has apparently been shot down, and since Gould was so enthusiastic about it, I tend to feel skeptical of the rest of his work, too. ..."

I'm pretty sure "punctuated equilibrium" is alive and well in academic circles. I still hear about it all the time at Stanford; not as something controversial but as a given. This is in sharp contrast to the beating the theory received when first proposed.

I'll have to add that to my reading list, Mark.

Sounds like Marcus's book might help elucidate some of the things I am having trouble with in "How the Mind Works" by Pinker. Thanks for the recommendation, Mark

Thank you Mark for the recommendation. Your review of the "Birth of the Mind" reminds me of "The Music of Life" by Denis Noble. Noble also tries to emphasize the point that genes are not the 'book of life' or the 'secret of life'.

If we try to explain life from the viewpoint of genetic determinism, then there is so much 'missing information'. We can't construct life out of genes. The missing information is implicit in the properties of the environment in which genes operate, including the properties of water and lipids and the chemistry of self-assembling systems.

I'm glad you are all finding the Gary Marcus review helpful. There really is a revolution happening in our entire conception of the way that genes and evolution work. It's a movement from a paradigm based on linear thinking (e.g., "The Central Dogma of Biology" whereby information moves in one direction from gene to protein) to one much more cognizant of the rich complexity of evolutionary and developmental processes. In this new view, causality is best thought of as a web of mutually causative interactions with no central locus rather than a linear strand of this leading to that. It's a very exciting time to be in the field. Another excellent book which focuses on the "new genetics" with an emphasis on non-DNA based inheritance and "neo-Lamarkianism" is Evolution in Four Dimensions. It's maybe a little more technical than Marcus's book, but chock full of absolute mind-blowing/paradigm-busting goodness. I'm also working on a book with similar themes, but that won't be ready for some time.