Science and Inquiry discussion

My impression from The Selfish Gene was that he thought rather well of himself, Dawkins.

Alex wrote: "Yeah, that's how I felt too. And I'm pretty freakin' atheist, so that's saying something. Dawkins is just...kindof a dick, y'know?"
I totally agree with you and I think he is one of the worst spokesmen for Atheists because of that, but I will say I absolutely love his book
The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution. My copy is bristling with post-it notes marking passages.

I'm not sure I get all this Dawkins bashing. Have you ever heard the man speak? He is one of the most intelligent, polite speakers I have ever heard. And his books are pretty solid science. Unless you can point to lines that are not?

I just don't think he's very good on discussion. He comes across as very superior and I personally come away with the impression that he thinks anyone who doesn't think like he does is an idiot. And I say all this as a person who agrees with most of what he says. Again though, he is one of my favorite science guys.

Oh, I think the science in The Selfish Gene (the only Dawkins I've read) is first class. But for me he comes off as thinking a great deal of himself, which is a bit off-putting.

You're absolutely right, Jimmy: in person Dawkins does better. (Unless he's debating. Then he's still a bit of an ass.) God Delusion is really him at his worst; he comes off better when he sticks to science, I think.

Amazing the reactions that guy brings up. People feel very strongly about him.

Yeah, that's how I felt too. And I'm pretty freakin' atheist, so that's saying something. Dawkins is just...kindof a dick, y'know?
Well said, sir. Maybe I'll read another of his books and hold off judgment until then. It's bad to be a jerkwad about religion, though. Tends to put people off your work.

One of my friends thinks I'm nuts, says he's wonderful and whatnot, accused me of taking too many painkillers. This little debate makes me feel validated, though.

I'm a Dawkins fan, but I have to admit that The God Delusion was far from his best work.

Stephen W. Hawking thought very readable but don't expect all questions to be answered

I thought that was just okay, Patricrk. Worth reading, but I wouldn't strongly recommend it to anyone.

I just noticed something about this thread. To the right of the discussion, there is a list of a few Books mentioned in this topic. If you click on the "More..." link, you can see a very long list of all the books mentioned!

That is a great list, David, thank you.

I read a few fluffier books (well ok one of them turned out not to be, fun fact: books published by the Oxford University Press are probably not light reading), but I'm back into science books. I just picked up The Hot Zone (author/book tagger isn't working), and it's kind of gross. I guess I should have expected that out of a book about Ebola...

Ah yes, The Hot Zone: A Terrifying True Story by Richard Preston. I've been meaning to read that for ages.

It's pretty good. A very quick read. Maybe a good plane book? Definitely not one to read whilst eating.

Kirsten wrote: "It's pretty good. A very quick read. Maybe a good plane book? Definitely not one to read whilst eating."

I will keep that in mind. I have been meaning to read it and I often read during my lunch!

Alex, me too.The Hot Zone: A Terrifying True Story. But considering now im currently reading Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, micro fonts, 500pages. Then it'll take much time to finished this one.

Oh awesome, Afiq! Cool book.

Collapse is a great book! I wrote a paper on it in school. Environmental science truly is a degree for the academically ADD.

Finished Hot Zone. Very interesting, but be warned, it describes what happens to you in great detail if you get Ebola.

Looking at reading a water resources book next. Dry Spring: The Coming Water Crisis of North America perhaps?

I love the science of viruses so I really liked The Hot Zone: A Terrifying True Story. I just looked at my review of it and I said "...The descriptions of what happens in the body throughout the process of infection are horrific. I had to put the book down an hour before bedtime and read some David Sedaris because I was afraid it would give me nightmares..." :)

I also enjoyed Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. I really like Jared Diamond. Guns, Germs and Steel is also good and it's been a few years but I remember really liking The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution & Future of the Human Animal.

I've to tell you, if you read this book, Guns, Germs and Steel. How you see geography, history and science globally never be the same again. Forget your history textbook in high school, this book are way better. If I have a kid one day, I'll tell em to read all Jared Diamond's books.

Diamond is great. Besides his books he used to write (perhaps still does) great articles for Discover Magazine.

Sorry for the belated Dawkin's comment, even though things have drifted. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. I haven't read his books yet... though they are on my list. My girlfriend loves him though, she's read everything by him. She says he's overly polite though, so I'm not seeing how he's a total ass?

On that note, I've seen him speak in interviews and debates and I'm not sure I see the "high mindedness" people refer to. Maybe it's because he says things I would say in similar forums concerning religious ideas. I do get rather incredulous at some of the claims made by such people whenever they insist the Earth is 10,000 years old, for example. But I think he's way more polite than I am, so maybe I am more of a jerk about it? I don't know... I hear Hitchens is much worse, though I read one of his books and liked it quite a bit. I'm not sure whether it has to do with arrogance/high mindedness or that they just actual have answers to some of the questions people claim "we can't have answers to".

I think it's rather belittling of someone's entire career to say "evolution is just impossible", when said by someone who has never really studied evolution to an evolutionary biologist. Though it's probably a similar issue when said biologist says the same of someone else's lifelong belief system. I think that's where we run into problems when the paths cross.

Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là.

Hm, I wonder if his hatred of Catholicism is subconsciously what angered me. Not that I'm a practicing Catholic anymore, but whatever.

Isn't that the idea behind Atheism? To just shove the idea of God out of your mind/life and not believe?

I just finished Great Lakes Journey: A New Look at America's Freshwater Coast and found his perspective interesting. Especially since I lived on the shore of Lake Superior all summer.

Kirsten wrote: "Isn't that the idea behind Atheism? To just shove the idea of God out of your mind..."

Well, I think it's more like Alex's quote of Laplace. It's not that atheists shove God out, it's that they simply don't need the concept. They believe that humans are responsible for most of the evil and the good that befalls them, with a dash of chance and nature thrown in.

Ah. Fair enough, I guess. I understood the quote, but perhaps have not studied religious philosophy enough to fully grasp the concept? It's a work in progress.

Jimmy wrote: "I'm not sure I get all this Dawkins bashing. Have you ever heard the man speak? He is one of the most intelligent, polite speakers I have ever heard. And his books are pretty solid science. Unless ..."

DonnaR wrote: "I just don't think he's very good on discussion. He comes across as very superior and I personally come away with the impression that he thinks anyone who doesn't think like he does is an idiot. ..."

Jimmy,
I don't get the Dawkins bashing either. Yes, I suppose he does come across as "superior", but, well, maybe that's because he IS superior. See, for yourself in the below very interesting program about Faith Based Schools:

http://vimeo.com/14299817

just starting by Hal Herzog This may be more philosophy than I usually read.

I finished reading Hackers Heros of the Computer Revolution.

Great read, I wish I could have been there.

Steven: Absolutely. I know a lot of fabulously intelligent and well spoken people who can be incorrect. Part of their intelligence I think comes from admitting when they're wrong.

Patricrk-please let me know if you like it! I've been eying that book every time I go to the bookstore.

Matt wrote: "I finished reading Hackers Heros of the Computer Revolution.

Great read, I wish I could have been there."

Have you seen the film "The Social Network"?

Patricrk wrote: "Matt wrote: "I finished reading Hackers Heros of the Computer Revolution.

Great read, I wish I could have been there."

Have you seen the film "The Social Network"?"

No, I haven't seen it yet. You?

Matt wrote: "Patricrk wrote: "Matt wrote: "I finished reading Hackers Heros of the Computer Revolution.

Great read, I wish I could have been there."

Have you seen the film "The Social Network"?"

No, I haven..."

saw it as an in-flight movie. I was wondering if some of the scenes in it were like anything in Hacker Hero's.

Just started Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of his Time. Disappointed to discover that the foreword by Neil Armstrong alluded to on the cover is not contained in the Kindle edition. This was a prior book-of-the-month recommendation by Tracy. So far, quite interesting. Thanks, Tracy.

Steve wrote: "Just started Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of his Time. Disappointed to discover that the foreword by Neil Armstrong alluded to ..."
I loved that book. I read it after watching the excellent BBC miniseries that was done from it. Then I got to see the actual device at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, England. Geek-a-palooza! :)

Hmmm. I'll have to see if my local library has the BBC miniseries on DVD. Thanks for the tip. I was a navigation officer in the Navy and taught celestial navigation in community college, hence my interest in the subject.

Kirsten wrote: "Steven: Absolutely. I know a lot of fabulously intelligent and well spoken people who can be incorrect. Part of their intelligence I think comes from admitting when they're wrong.

Patricrk-pleas..."

Hal Herzog I found this book an enjoyable read with an nice style and a bit of humor. Since it deals with how we treat animals be prepared for some horror stories. Makes you think at times but doesn't try to advocate one position or another.

DonnaR wrote: "Steve wrote: "Just started Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of his Time. Disappointed to discover that the foreword by Neil Armstro..."

I read this a few years back and found it utterly fascinating. Also saw the actual gizmo at the Royal Observatory. Anything by Dava Sobel is a good read.

Sandra wrote: "Anything by Dava Sobel is a good read."

Yes, I enjoyed her Galileo's Daughter: A Historical Memoir of Science, Faith and Love

Hal Herzog I found this book an enjoyable read with an nice style and a bit of humor. Since it deals with how we treat animals be prepared for some horror stories. Makes you think at times but doesn't try to advocate one position or another.

After environmental ethics, I think I can handle it! Thanks for the review.

I'm reading Earth: An Intimate History still and I really like it thus far. Highly recommend it.

My newest read is "Not Even Wrong" by Peter Woit. So far not too bad. At least you get some group theory knowledge.

I just enjoyed reading Critical Mass: How One Thing Leads to Another by Philip Ball. It is about the application of physics and math to sociology. Whereas many of the same issues were discussed in Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point, this book describes why the "tipping point" occurs in society. Very interesting. (Oh--and no equations.)

Matt wrote: "My newest read is "Not Even Wrong" by Peter Woit. So far not too bad. At least you get some group theory knowledge."

please let us know how you found it, i bought the book but have not tackled it yet

I've been reading Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life by Daniel Dennet.

I'm not huge on philosophy, and Dennet's writing is thick. It isn't bad, but some of it I feel like I'm wading through. On the other hand, I'm finally getting an idea of the philosophy behind the concepts addressed in Origin of Species.

As a grad student in geology and archaeology, I'm ashamed to admit I've never read Origin of Species either. I plan to tackle that one at some point this year.

Grace wrote: "I've been reading Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life by Daniel Dennet.

I'm not huge on philosophy, and Dennet's writing is thick. It isn't bad, but some of it..."

Don't be afraid of "Origin ...". It is quite readable and mostly a lot of evidence to show selection.

David wrote: "I just enjoyed reading Critical Mass: How One Thing Leads to Another by Philip Ball. It is about the application of physics and math to sociology. Whereas many of the same issues were..."

Does it work for what is happening in Tunisia and Egypt?

Grace, I've found Origin kinda difficult, actually. Dude uses a ton of commas! (Trust Patricrk over me, that dude is way smarter.) I bought this sick illustrated edition, which I hope will help.

I'm not big on philosophy either, but Dennet sounds intriguing.

Alex wrote: "Grace, I've found Origin kinda difficult, actually. Dude uses a ton of commas! (Trust Patricrk over me, that dude is way smarter.) I bought this sick illustrated edition, which I ..."

I read the illustrated edition too. I found that the pictures while interesting had little to do with the text at the point where the picture was inserted. It would probably be better to read the text once through ignoring the illustrations and then go back and look at the illustrations and their captions.

Patricrk wrote: "David wrote: "I just enjoyed reading Critical Mass: How One Thing Leads to Another by Philip Ball. It is about the application of physics and math to sociology. Whereas many of the sa..."

Does it work for what is happening in Tunisia and Egypt? "

Well, probably not. I don't think Philip Ball's methodology is sophisticated enough. Maybe it could explain some of what is happening, but certainly not in any detail, and only "after the fact".

On the other hand, I recently read the book The Predictioneer's Game: Using the Logic of Brazen Self-Interest to See and Shape the Future. The author claims to be able to predict political events like this, in detail. Moreover, he teaches college classes, where his students learn how to make political predictions. Absolutely fascinating.