Beyond Reality discussion

I'm sorry. I really have to go that far. Bah! It seems every time I go looking for something with a smidgen of romance in it, a little bit of gritty, and some sexual tension, - WHAMO - its full of vampires.

Are there any recommendations out there for something good, gritty, with some romantic tension, in the fantasy genre that's fang-free?

I am not much of a romance reader, but I don't mind if it shows up in a book, if it's done well. But I have to agree with you - I am sorely sick of vampires, period.

As this isn't really "my genre", I don't have a long list to suggest, but I do think the Through Violet Eyes series (There are four books at present.) by Stephen Woodworth sounds like it might fit your criteria. I haven't read this series, but it's been recommended to me, and I've been told it has romance as a side-plot. It's billed as a fantasy thriller mystery with romance and horror bits, so...

Good luck out there in the sea of undead. Perhaps this trend will mellow soon.

Try Rachel Caine's Weather Warden series - first book is Ill Wind. The supernatural beings in the books are djinn (with bottles, no less!). They're a lot of fun.

Definitely the Kushiel series' by Jacqueline Carey. Two excellent trilogies so far, and a new one set in the same 'world', that's on book #2 at the moment.

If you like a mix of hard sci-fi, try out Catherine Asaro's Skolian Empire series.

Anna wrote: "I'm sorry. I really have to go that far. Bah! It seems every time I go looking for something with a smidgen of romance in it, a little bit of gritty, and some sexual tension, - WHAMO - its full of..."

You're so right, Anna. It's even started to infiltrate TV shows - sometimes it looks like every other show has vampires in it. I imagine some studio meetings, where writers pitch an idea for a new show to the execs and have to change it on the fly:

Writer: "So in our new show, a group of scrappy high school kids discover that their football coach is a retired army major who went undercover after his career ended..."

Studio executives: *silence*

Writer: "... and was instrumental in breaking up a huge drug cartel before retiring and becoming a coach in a small town..."

Studio executives: *blank stares*

Writer, hesitantly: "... aaaaaand they're all vampires!"

Studio execs: *cheers*

And they're wimpy vampires. Vampires should rip off you arm and club you to death with it while sucking your blood.

But no, they sparkle, or something.

(And this comes from someone who likes Yarbro).

Try Barbara Hambly. She writes many types of books, and yes, she has some vampire stories (written before the current fad), but she aslo has a good many that do not have vampires.

Try also The Last Stormlord; it has romance in it. I'll second Jacqueline Carey. You might also try The Alchemy of Stone.


Diana Paxson wrote several novels that are fantasy and romance. The White Raven is a good one. She draws from myths and legends.

While I don't like the next to, many people do. Poison Study and Rhapsody: Child of Blood

I have noticed Zombie books are outflanking the Vampire Books...ha ha ha

Looking for something to Read
SF, maybe Anathem by Stephenson, Amazing book.
Under Heaven by Kay, I haven't read it yet but with Kay you cannot lose. I have never read a bad book by Jay

Ken wrote: "I have noticed Zombie books are outflanking the Vampire Books...ha ha ha"

But it's been a slow, shambling road to get there...

blackrose wrote: "Ken wrote: "I have noticed Zombie books are outflanking the Vampire Books...ha ha ha"

But it's been a slow, shambling road to get there..."

Thank you!!! My first genuine laugh of the morning. I need that!

Being a Florida resident....(we have mosquitoes by the SQUADRON!) the idea of anything blood sucking being FUN breaks the insanity meter.

I will cheer when this 'fad' wears out.

The succession to live carrion (euphemistically called zombies), ditto.

Thank heaven (down here), such drek feeds the buzzards. ;)

Never been a horror reader....I find no joy in the morbid stuff at all. The odd scene in a book that has scary elements is OK, but not a whole plot in that arena.

Don't get me started about adding 'romance' to that mix...but obviously I am not trendy, based on the huge volume of this stuff on the shelves.

Mawgojzeta wrote: "Thank you!!! My first genuine laugh of the morning. I need that!"

Happy to oblige :)

I was sick of vampires before Twilight.

I still do kinda have the hots for Spike, though.

blackrose wrote: "


I still do kinda have the hots for Spike, though."

That's okay. Spike's a bad boy; he's not a glowing corpse.

Well, I do like my bad boys, you know, a little bit bad. :>

I admit, I went through my vampire phase, and I still like some - just not the whole weird YA romance stuff.

Blackrose: would it be :{= ?

blackrose wrote: "Well, I do like my bad boys, you know, a little bit bad. :>

I admit, I went through my vampire phase, and I still like some - just not the whole weird YA romance stuff."

I like some too. I'll admit I like Buffy (but she slays); I use to read Anita Blake, I still read Carrie Vaughn and Kelley Armstrong. I like and still read Chelsea Quinn Yarbro (though her vampires seem to be a plot device).

I still really like some books were the vampires are bad. Is the attraction, I wonder, simply due to the fact that a vampire can't get a woman with child (though some authors seem to irgnore this fact) or give her an STD?

I think everyone that reads Twilight stuff should have to read a Brian Lumley book about vampires. That will show them how wicked they can be.

I have a Masters in Education, and in one of my adolescent development classes, my professor (who was a practicing child psychiatrist) talked about how he often used Buffy as a way to connect with his patients. That adolescents in some ways identify with vampires - they're at the mercy of urges that they don't know how to control, their lives are hemmed in by restrictions of someone else's making, etc... and they also identify with Buffy, in a world where killing demons is given equal importance to finding a date for the prom.

In case anyone's curious, here's the abstract to a paper he wrote about it:
http://ap.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/co...

And just for kicks, here's an article about his theories on zombies, trying to explain what must be going on in the zombie brain to make them act the way they do:
http://io9.com/5286145/a-harvard-psyc...

Yeah, best professor ever. :)

Janny - I know it's supposed to be fangs, but all I can think of is some unfortunate soul with a bad moustache and buck teeth! Heh. I've always seen :)" as the emote for being bitten by a vamp, though.

Shel - When I was in college I picked up a book called Our Vampires, Ourselves by Nina Auerbach in which "Tracing the evolution of vampires from 19th-century England through 20th-century America, Auerbach makes a number of new and interesting observations that will undoubtedly spur future scholarly discourse on vampirology. ... Auerbach illustrates how vampires are personifications of their age, reflecting and embodying social, political, and cultural change."

And I think, for some, the vampire - especialy the conflicted, brodding vampires with a soul of popular culture - definitely tap into that teenage angst, the feeling of unbelonging and being on the outside. It touches on young women's, and others, desires of having that "bad boy" but tempered and, to a degree, tamed - but not entirely. It speaks to the longing for the mysterious and the dark, but in a generally safe way.

For myself, I first fell in love with Gary Oldman as Dracula, and was raised on the Lost Boys.

My real problem with Twilight doesn't actually come from the toothless vampires as much as the pathetic damsel - but that's just me. (For the record, I've never actually read or watched Twilight, so I can't properly critique it, though I have read a lot of secondary stuff about it.)

Chris with the dog - I do think the sex without repurcussions aspect might be a part of it. I recall Stephen King saying something about Twilight being romance for young women because it is, ultimately, chaste - at least until they get married. It's a way for them to deal with their burgeoning hormones and desires, but in a safe way.

As a side point - something that bothered me about Anne Rice's vampires (at least in the first book, since that's as far as I've gotten). They couldn't have sex, so the eroticism was put on the biting. (Conversely, I've heard Dracula is pretty much Victorian porn, and very erotic for the time period.)

The reason their inability to have sex bothered me so much, though, is because she describes them as breathing (which most vampire folklore has them not doing), and having a beating heart (ditto).

The reason that most vampire stories have the inability to get someone pregnant is because there's no sperm - but there is blood flow, explained in various ways be different authors.

But, if Anne Rice's vampire had blood fow, which they did, then why were the males unable to physically have sex? Never made any sense to me. I mean, I know, or suspect, why she did it as an author - but it wasn't very well thought out, imo.

/end-rant

Um - yeah


Anna - I recently read, and rather enjoyed, The Strangely Beautiful Tale of Miss Percy Parker. It's more a gothic romance, with supenatural aspects. Not sure how much there is in the way of gritty - but it's good for the romance.

And if you like things Fae, there's the YA offerings of Tithe by Holly Black, and others of that ilk.

Ken wrote: "I have noticed Zombie books are outflanking the Vampire Books...ha ha ha

Looking for something to Read
SF, maybe Anathem by Stephenson, Amazing book.
Under Heaven by Kay, I haven't read it yet but..."

Normally I love Stephenson - but found Anathem a tough read to get into. I got about a third of the way through and gave up. I'm dying to know how it ends though. Anyone wannna tell me?

It gets really weird at the end. I dont want to say anything to spoil it, but its not an out of the blue weird. THe hints at it through the whole book

I agree with maybe the exception of I am legend...

In my world saying I'm tired of vampires is like saying I'm tired of cheesecake- not going to happen

Kate - so I'm guessing you won't be reading any dystopian vampire novels in the near future? :)

I agree with the 'too much vamp' as well. And add werewolves to that list.
I guess my prob with vamp romance isn't the cheese factor. Although that is why I have a court order against any Harlequin Romance getting within 50 feet of me. My big big wall betwixt me and them is the whole 500-3000 year old vamp in love with a teen. or a 22 year old. No offense meant, but come on. Magic and Vamps are easier to believe in than someone having that much life (after-life) falling for someone with the life experience of a turnip. I won't rant over it but it seems more likely they would find a more mature person to their taste. I'm also not suggesting 50 year olds, just that perspective changes with experience. Innocence is cute, but for long-term love? not buying it.
I know, it's just my opinion, but I'm wondering if this irks other readers. Even at 25 your experience can have dramatic changes from 18 or 19. Am I just getting old and thinking "kids these days" or is this a legit point?

I have to say that while I am tired of vampires, I find myself enjoyng Being Human on BBC America. Maybe it's because the vampires there actually kill people and don't feel lovey dovey.

Funny thing, Watching Stargate SG1 on SPACE here in Canada and they are running a 5 day marathon of Being Human starting on Monday

Have you tried Stacia Kane Downside GhostsUnholy Magic? Fascinating world. She also did a series with demons-- good but slightly lighter in tone.

Candiss wrote: "I am not much of a romance reader, but I don't mind if it shows up in a book, if it's done well. But I have to agree with you - I am sorely sick of vampires, period.

As this isn't really "my genr..."

Thanks for the tip, Candiss - I picked up Through Violet Eyes and have quite been enjoying it.

Jane wrote: "Ken wrote: "I have noticed Zombie books are outflanking the Vampire Books...ha ha ha

Looking for something to Read
SF, maybe Anathem by Stephenson, Amazing book.
Under Heaven by Kay, I haven't rea..."

Thanks Ken and Jane - I hadn't read anything by Guy Gavriel Kay since I was a teenager and had forgotten how much I loved him. This summer I've plowed through Lions of Al Rassan, Tigana and The Last Light of Sun (which as it turns out - I read a couple of years back recovering from surgery, but didn't remember - so it doesn't count.)

Here's one for all you vampire lovers:



I guess we should all be glad it took so long for this to happen.